Envy 14 = Potential Heat Problems?

Does anyone know if HP has said anything about the Envy 14's build? I'm worried because the Envy 15 i7 has heat problems, and now if you choose the i7 for the Envy14, your essentially putting the same CPU into a smaller chassis.

Has anyone heard any info on this?

Edit: Just found this video that says HP redesigned the chassis, and put a vent on the bottom to help airflow, not sure if this will solve the problem though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMl7KqCg4hY&feature=related

 

I dunno. Hopefully it's built like the dv6t:SE. it doesn't seem to have too many heat issues with the i7.

...that being said I'm sticking with the i5 so i can get switchable graphics.

 

i cant wait to do a review on this envy 14. from the video, we all can see that the battery, hard drive, and the memory are located right beneath the palm rest. which will generate a lot of heat, but as HP stated, they have improve the chassis and better airflow.

 

As far as heat generating components go, I think that the harddrive (the laptop based ones that is), the memory and the battery don't get nearly as warm as the GPU or CPU, both of which I believe are under the palm rest of the Envy 15. Those palm rests don't get that warm, even after an hour of 3D gaming. I have the i5 Envy 15, btw.

Laptop harddrives aren't 15k RPM Cheetahs, nor 10k RPM Raptors (both of which get very warm). If the battery is heating up enough to be uncomfortable, there's something wrong with it and it should be replaced. Similarly, unless you're seriously overclocking the memory, you won't get laptop memory to be so hot as to significantly contribute to the heat of the palm rest.

 

I've rarely seen a HDD get over 35*, I've never touched memory and found it even warm to the touch, and a hot battery = a bad battery.

Most laptop HDD's are right under a palm rest, just like they are in the MacBook's, and business HP, and Lenovo and Dell.....


How do you expect to review a laptop and not know these things?

 

It's pointless to worry about things like this right now. We have no clue.
I'll tell you what, I'm going to be ordering this thing the day it comes out, I'll do heat tests as soon as I get it and pass that info on to you guys, deal?
Until then, don't worry about it.

 

+1. I mean, how are we supposed to know anything when no one even has the machine yet.

I could make about 1000 threads
"Envy 14 = Potential XXXXXX problems?"

 

Possible new thread topics =

WILL THE NEW ENVY 14 BURST INTO FLAMES AND CAUSE A CATASTROPIC OIL SPILL?

WILL THE NEW ENVY 14 GIVE ME AIDS?

WILL THE NEW ENVY 14 KILL ME IN MY SLEEP?

Have I covered it all?

Bronsky

 

LOL. You forgot "WILL THE ENVY 14 SEEP TOXIC RADIATION?"

 

Will the i7-620M have switchable graphics?

 

no, it will not.

 

Hmm.. What's the projected battery life to be in the ENVY 14 with the i7-620M anyway?

 

If the i5 will have switchable graphics, why won't the 620M? They are the same CPUs...

 

oh, my bad, it could I believe. but, I don't believe the 620M is going to be offered, just the 720QM.

http://h20424.www2.hp.com/campaign/consumer_notebooks/ap/en/resources/HP-ENVY-brochure.pdf

This is the newest information that we have, no 620M, sorry

 

HOpefully 620M is available. If not, 540M isnt too much behind it anyways, right?

 

Some think the I5-540M is the better CPU. In the 13" Acer 3820TG, the I7-620M has been observed to reach temps of 87C under stress (though the Acer's dual cooling system seems to keep it stable and prevents throttling).

Bronsky

 

Izzat a good thing or a bad thing? And both have switchable graphics, righT?

 

It's good that the 3820TG seems to control the heat of the I7. The Envy 14 won't have to becuase the I5-540M runs coolerand the I7-620M will not be offered. Both would have switchable graphics.

Bronsky

 

Also, both will be obsolete a month after they come out. lulz. jk, kinda

 

I posted in the envy thread a comparison in performances of the different i5 and i7.
The little catch here is that the i7620 is the same as a i5 (quad core) but is anyway called i7.

Here's a little sumary:
i430m: The same as the i520+ (4threads... same cache...) category but without improved instructions (minor perf loss tho, but cheapest, and easily overclockable up to a 520m that means without heat issues)
i520/i540/i620 (the last one is a i7) : all dual core with two threads, means 4 threads. With improved instructions. Hp having designed the vent system based on a i540m, don't go past it's clock and under load temp/noise should be optimal.
i7 QM: quad cores ==> 8 threads, no integrated graphics compared to all the ixxxM

tl:dr : you gotta be stupid if you take an envy 14 i7QM instead of a envy 17 i7QM mainly because:

-the battery time on an envy14 will be at max of 1h30 of WLAN surfing (WITH THE SLICE BATTERY) which is similar to the envy15 i7. Just search a envy15 review and see it's crap battery life.
-the heat generated not from the i7 (which will be at pause anyway when you do nothing) but the "Always running" hd5650 will make the fans run even in idle.
-all that heat lowers the laptop lifetime overall... by exhausting the fan and heating components.

That said, you are free to pay 500$ extra for an i7 and enjoy the 45% performance gain in 8 thread apps... (others than decoding/compiling software I have yet to find one I use often...) most of apps are 2 or 4 way threaded (for quad and dual cores with one thread per core, i7 is 4core two thread per core).

Imo the best value is the i520m at 2.9ghz (it gets improved AES instructions while the I430 does not, and is just the same as a I540/I620 if you overclock it, and thats frigging easy to do). Yet going past 3ghz in a laptop with only one vent hole is kind of... risky and will be noisy especially when the hd5650 will be on but that's your call.
Improved AES is only minor perf gain, but its kind of good for the mood to have it. And the i520m is more easily overclockable up to a 540m (3.06ghz) or even a i7 620m (which is the very same as a i520m build wise, only higher clocked (3.3ghz).

Those are the single core peak clock rate that i am giving previously, the multicore clockrate are only spaced of a few hz (i520 : 2.4ghz / i620: 2.66ghz)

Just as an addendum :
I7 620m:
3430 cinebench single thread
7520 cinebench multi thread

 

You're not far off ... the I5-580M will be released in Q3, bringing the clocks in the I5 up to I7 speed. Such is the nature of buying notebooks.

Bronsky

Does the Envy 17 use an LGA 1156 socket for it's dual core CPU's? Will the 14?

EDIT: @IKAS and others - I'm actually trying to confirm the specific type of socket. It could also be a PGA 988 or BGA 1288 as I understand it. I think it is the LGA 1156. Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone have a service manual yet?

 

All i core CPUs use the same socket.

IKAS

 

Should I go for 520m or 540m (to suit my emulation needs)? 620m is kinda pointless now, since I've read the previous posts..

 

Don't know if anybody other than me cares about this but, from my reasearch it looks like the full powered dual core "I" series use the PGA 988 socket but the UM and LM processors are installed into a BGA socket. The full powered units are replacable while the UM and LM are not, since they are soldered into the units. At least that's what I think ... I'm still looking for manuals. The question I have is: "is the LGA 1156 socket backward compatable with the CPU's intended for a P988 socket"? I am confused by the QM processors listing an LGA 1156 scoket. I though the dual core I7 and the Quad core used the same socket.

I was interested becuase I was looking at the new HP TM2 tablet (I need a tablet to replace my Acer 1410T for field work) comming out the same day as the Envy and was considering it if I could upgrade it to an I7-640UM. My research indicates that it's not upgradable, so I have to wait and see what options HP offers.

The good news is that, it looks like the Envy 14 would be upgradable to an I7-620M if the bios will support it (still a big question).

Bronsky

@Dokie11 - At the price, plus discount at release, the 540M makes the most sense to me.

 

Isn't the i7 is uranium powered..

 

It uses only depleted uranium ... so it's not as bad.

Bronsky

 

You're totally getting mixed up with desktop and notebook parts. The LGA 1156 is for the mainstream desktop CPUs (LGA 1366 for the enthusiast desktop CPUs). Mainstream notebooks (all normal voltage ie. i3/i5/i7 dual core, and enthusiast notebook CPUs, ie. i7 quads) use uPGA-989. The ULV and LV parts use BGA-1288, which isn't a socket technically, and they're soldered in, which means you can't replace them or use those types of CPUs.

 

Thanks. Yes. I was getting confused. That helps clear up the LGA 1156 issue.

Bronsky

EDIT: @sgogeta4 - One more question if you don't mind. What is the difference between a PGA-988 and PGA-989. Are they the same socket but a later model? Here is a CPU that I would like to use in an Acer 3820TG. The model is configured by the manufacturer with an I7 but they are impossible to get. I would like to make my own. The I7 lists the socket as a PGA-988 (see link).

New Intel® Core? i7-620M Processor 2.66G/4M/1333 SLBPD - eBay (item 320543520902 end time Jul-04-10 09:48:41 PDT)

I'm trying to make sure there are no compatability issues between this processor and the 3820TG.

Bronsky

EDIT: ISSUE RESOLVED! No need to respond to my question ... Acer has confirmed that the 3820TG has a PGA 988 socket. I can use the ebay processor to upgrade the CPU in the 3820TG.

 

I don't think you'll be able to tell a huge difference.
If you have the cash, go for the 540m. If you don't want the small boost on performance and want to save your dough, go for the 520m.

 

It seems that Intel validated both 988 and 989 for its mobile Core i series. I would assume that 989 could be for the next revision, thus making backwards compatibility possible but preventing the new CPUs into the older 988 socket.

 

I look at it a bit different. For the $50 or $100 it cost you for the upgrade, you have to amortize that cost over the life of the notebook. I tend to keep my notebooks for years so the cost per year is rather low. I ususally go for the best processor I can get within a class. It has served me well.

Bronsky

 

it appears some Envy 17 i7 owners are noticing heat problems...

 

i7-620 DOES have switchable graphics:

Intel® Core? i7-620M Processor (4M Cache, 2.66 GHz) with SPEC Code(s) SLBPD, SLBPE

But you're right, so far doesn't look like it's offered. That's too bad. One would think an i5-430m, i5-520m, and an i7-620m would be a better choice over the i5-540m.

 

i620m probably produces too much heat for the vent system hence why HP won't put it up as an option.

 

I would think the quad core i7-720qm would produce much more heat than the dual core 620m. And they offer the 720qm as an option.

 

The Acer 3820TG owners are seeing Intel Burn Test temps of 87C to 89C. While the dual cooling system still keeps the I7 under its max temp of 104C, the Envy's single fan unit might struggle with that level of heat. Anyway, the I5-540M is very close in performance to the I7 and may leave a little room to OC using SetFSB.

Good point about the Quad. Maybe the I7-620M is in short supply. Acer is currently sold out of those models.

Bronsky

 

Doesnt matter, monocore peak clock and peak load is at 3,3 ghz for the i620 while it's only 2,8ghz for the quad core (same as i540's peak). Unmanagable peak temperatures are for the i620 while a quad core is seldom at full charge on all 4 cores, and even if that happens each core is only at 1,6 ghz in multicore mode. While on a i620 in multicore mode you're at around 2,7/8 ghz. It's a whole other league.

 

I understand what you're saying, but in either case the i5/i7 dual cores are 35W TDP, quad core (i7-720qm) is 45W. They would have had to design for that 45W anyhow if the quad is an option. If you look at any other laptop with a dual core i5 vs quad core i7, heat output is significantly higher under load.

 

With an i7 quad, I think the Envy 14 is gonna have some trouble.

 

Yep. I'm steering clear. I'm sticking with 540m or 520m depending on pricing. Plus in a laptop like this I'm not sure why you'd want a Clarksfield CPU. This machine is all about elegance, battery life, and a well rounded out package. i7 quad is a little over the top IMHO.

 

Exactly. But I do see the appeal of having a quad core in such a small package. For me the extreme loss in battery life isn't worth it though. Still hoping there will be an all black non-glossy option, but that's wishful thinking. Someone needs to photoshop a pic of the Envy 14 and make it black, just to give me hope, lol.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but almost every laptop that has an i7 Quad core in it has heat issues, even the bigger ones like the Envy 17 and 17" MBP. I don't see any way a 14" laptop wouldnt have those issues.

 

The Envy 17 handles the heat moderately well. Internally at least. Temps after doing benchmarks were at a max of around 70C. The outside does get warm but at least its concentrated around the top left. I've seen and felt worse before. If the Envy 14 can handle the quad i7 as well as Envy 17, I'll be fairly surprised.

What I want to see is a quad core in a MBP, it'd be the first laptop/frying pan.

 

Core i7-equipped MacBook Pro CPU hits 100 degrees Celsius (updated) -- Engadget

EDIT: wait, that's with the i7-620m, a dual core proc.
Still, you can imagine the Quad core...

 

someone get out the pots. we need to boil some water.

 

The new DV3-4000 (4016TX)series with 13.3 inch, core i7 720qm,512mb 5450 has no issues with heat.

 

Yea I understand your wattage concerns but 35W for a i5 or i7 620m is the peak clock consumption, while 45W is the peak consumption for all four cores under a heavy bench (the kind of bench the macbook had to reach 100°C). Even if HP offers the i7Quad it's heat consumption will rarely hit 45W because on most apps the monocore peak function will activate, and then the cpu consumption of a quad core is the same as a i5xx yet probably a little over 35W sinces its so high clocked. (ex gaming and else...)

If you convert mp3s, unrar massive files, or work in any of this kind of four core apps (its not a game, so theres no graphic card there building up extra heat, so the 4 cores at load becomes managable for the vent).
On the other hand : you'd ask yourself, then why quads have heat problems but not i5's ??? Because on quads theres no graphic switch, and HD5650 (15-20Watts) produces already a lot of extra heat to dissipate even when not under load.

Think that HP designed the sink to be able to dissipate both cpu and graphic load for their i5 configurations, while i7 configs will have trouble to dissipate both graphical and cpu loads for two different reasons (620m being too high clocked + 1 iddle core to cool off, and 720QM having the 3 iddle cores to cool off even if only one of them is at peak).

Nevertheless we could think that since the i620 has graphic switching capability, the thermal dissipation will provide smooth and good temperatures under the use of integrated graphics, the poop will hit the fan only when running on discrete graphics for heavy games. We're afraid of temperatures around 90/100°C in load for CPU and graphic card (thats the heat limit at 100% fan speed manufacturers usually design their systems for). It's managable and playable, but it shortens the lifetime of the laptop quite a lot. Optimal temperatures would be 80/60°C at load for both the components and the battery (which gets hurt when exposed to heat).

Simplier we can take the N82JV of asus as an example :

From the notebookreview official review.

Imo if you want a 620m into your envy, wait for someone to buy it before you do and sees how the cpu temp performs. N82 does 85°C asus worked it out very well, will hp be able to keep it under 90°C or will they not ? No idea... but based on the quad core envy 17 temperatures I am doubting the vent will be as good as asus'.

 

It doesn't matter anyways. 620m isn't offered on the Envy 14. But read other reviews of i7 quads and my point is that they run hot, I doubt the 620m will exceed that. TDP is the maximum power that a system must cool in order for it not to exceed its max core temp. So if the cooling system is designed for 45W TDP, that far and exceeds the 35W requirement (by ~ 30%). If it can cool 45W sufficiently it should more than be able to cool 35W, period.

 

Some CPUs, such as newer Intel-CPUs, have TDP defined as the maximum power consumption running worst case workloads and some, like CPUs from Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), have the maximum power consumption defined as TDP.
There are some engineering reasons for this pattern.
For a given device, operating at a higher clock rate always requires more power.

As I said 45W is worst case workload scenario for quad cores (all four cores at 100% load). It rarely reaches 45W of TDP on the field and the heat problems of the quads comes from having to cool the always active video card. On envy 17 if I recall theres a separate vent for the gpu, on envy 14 there is noone, both are on the same fan on the same side which makes it even worse.

 

Oh geeez HP. I wish HP realized folks use laptops on our laps, our beds, our couches! Why continue with haphazard design elements like vents on the bottom of a laptop? Makes no sense. If other brands can put the same components the Envy has into sub 1 inch designs that do not have vents on the bottom of a laptop, than HP has the same option. Right?