Envy 14 radiance screen vs Envy 15 IPS display comparison anyone?

Hey.

Envy 14 radiance screen vs Envy 15 IPS display comparison anyone?

Anyone have both laptops that they can use to compare the displays on both and see how much better the new IPS Display on the Envy 15 is?

Thank you

 

I'll be doing one friday night / saturday

 

I have 17" and I have to say that Radiance is better

 

Whats the difference between Radiance and IPS? The new ENVY has Radiance ?

 

The 17" doesn't have IPS.

 

Envy 14 radiance is better imo.

only 60% gamut on the Envy 15 IPS? silly HP.

 

what is your source for this information?

 

I used to own an Envy 13 and I still haven't seen another screen as good (My boss has it and each time I visit I have to have another look)

 

I'm getting kinda worried, reading about people liking the old Radiance better...

 

It really shouldn't be a contest. The 15's inability to produce the color red is enough to knock it under the 14's display.

 

the 14 probably has better colors than the 15, but the 15 still looks quite good to my eyes. If you need to do color critical work though it's not ideal for that. Maybe later they will allow a dreamcolor display in the envy line. If they can get the upgrade cost from 450 ish to say 300, I think that could go a long way and still be quite popular.

 

Ugh, the sole reason I sprang for this was because I thought this would be a screen upgrade to my original-radiance 14. Yes, I do do color critical work. Ffs. I'm angry now.

 

Then buy a Professional HP or Dell Notebook or use an external display, that's the only way.

They won't, it would not work (thickness) nor make sense (I know a handful of people would like it, but that's not a real market. They have the Probooks for this)

 

...professional notebook?

 

HP Probook
HP ProBook Notebook-PC - Vergleichsergebnisse Klein- und Mittelunternehmen - HP
Dell Precision
Precision M4600 ? Lightweight, Performance Mobile Workstation | Dell

 

EDIT: **spoiler alert** I just re-read this and almost took it down because it sounds like I'm ragging on the IPS screen in the new Envy 15. I'm not! I haven't even seen it, but I have been reading about it and I just had my fill of hearing people speaking of IPS displays as if they are the "second coming." At their best (very expensive) they have characteristics that a TN LCD will never equal, but when brands try to have the cheapest IPS panel possible, just so they can say it's "IPS," consumers can get the short end of the stick (see below if you care). But the new E-15 sounds awesome and I may well get one - but the "IPS-ness" of the screen would not be the reason.

I have been growing tired of hearing IPS technology nearly universally characterized as a panacea for all LCDs compared to the main alternative on notebook computers, TN displays. It turns out - surprise, surprise! - that there are cheap, lower quality IPS displays (Thinkpad X-220, Envy 15, but on limited data) and ultra high quality TN displays (Dell XPS-15, Sony Z1 and Z2 series). Also, even the best IPS panels cannot approach the refresh rates or response times of TN panels, so are not the best choice for gamers.

So it turns out that "IPS" is becoming more a marketing feature than an indication of display quality in notebook computers. That's a fact. The rest is hype. (Details below, if you're interested.)

Beginning with the Thinkpad X-220, and now in the new Envy, we are seeing the "consumerization" of the IPS display, and IMO it's not doing the marketplace or the reputation of IPS as a superior display technology any good. Without going into technical details, it should be understood that there are excellent TN displays that are better in nearly all respects than lower grade LCDs that use IPS technology.

IPS displays are technologically better able to more accurately reproduce a wider spectrum of color than TN displays and they typically have wider (nearly infinite) viewing angles. But compared to the IPS displays in the Thinkpad X-220 and, based on limited review data, the new Envy 15's, the TN displays in the Dell XPS-15 and Sony Z1 and Z2 series have far superior breadth of color reproduction and offer effectively equivalent horizontal viewing angles. (IPS displays offer better vertical viewing angles, but these are rarely as important for most users, particularly on laptops, whose screens are so easily adjusted vertically.)

TN displays also have two technical advantages over IPS design:

1) response time (TN 2-4X faster)
2) refresh rate (TN max 120hz; IPS max 60hz)

Thus TN displays are a better choice for gamers, all other things being equal. Same for those who watch HD video with a lot of action.

Bottom line: IPS (in-plane-switching) is not a magic acronym for an always superior LCD display because higher quality TN displays are better than lower quality IPS displays at doing the things that IPS technology does better by design. Moreover, no IPS LCD will provide the quality of ghost-free fast motion video than a 120hz TN display.

 

That's a very good information you gave. Hopefully consumers will learn about this so they won't be fooled by all of this marketing.

Based on your info, which laptops right now have the best screen? I saw the Fujitsu NH751 FHD screen and so far, it is the best screen I have seen in a laptop. Better than the Macbooks and LCD monitors and TVs I have seen. I don't know if it's better than Radiance since I haven't seen it. But at least consumers can know which laptops have good screens instead of marketing hype and review hype.

 

Well, it's not exactly marketing, we had to do some real snooping around to even get a confirmation that it's IPS. HP's marketing makes zero mention of IPS whatsoever. As far as they're concerned, both the 15 and 17 have Radiance panels and that's it.

 

Looking at its specs, I have to seriously doubt that it is a quality IPS panel. Outside of viewing angles, it's completely mediocre in so many ways.

EDIT: the black levels are good too

 

Would either the 15 IPS or 17 TN be better than say a Macbook Pro? worse? even?

 

Although your post is true and well written, I would like to add that IPS still pretty much stands for quality. You can get awsome and "bad" IPS screens, which means that they are upper mid field but not top notch. On the other hand, you can get awful TN screens (very often), and on the other side of the spectrum up to lower top of the line TN screens (like MBP).

For most of us it doesn't really matter. As long as the resolution is high enough (>900p) and the crontrast and brightness is good, and viewing angles, response time, color, etc. are not too far off, we should be fine. I haven't seen my Envy yet (it's waiting for me^^) but as long as the orange-red and the slower response times from the IPS are not too bad, I will be fine from what I have seen/read so far (and I am very picky and coming from a top notch Clevo screen)

 

I have (had) both. Both were bought with Radiance Infinity screens. The side-by-side comparison was no contest. The Envy 14 display was much better than the Envy 15. I was very disappointed. The Envy 15 later managed to completely lock up on me so have gotten an RMA to send it back to HP. Only reason I bought both Envy models was for the marvelous screen. Am afraid the 15 doesn't match up to the first generation Envy 14 screen at all. Color reproduction is not good, not nearly as bright and vivid; horrible reds (more orange than red). Likely HP went with another supplier on the 15 screen or used a screen of lesser quality. Suppose I'll be sticking with my 14 a while longer or perhaps wait and see about the rumored Envy 14 Spectre that is to be released sometimes next year. The screen will be the sticking point for me. Otherwise, the Envy line is just a very nicely built medium range laptop with a few added bells and whistles.

 

oops 10charac

 

I've not heard of that Fujitsu but they make excellent IPS andPVA displays for their highest end laptops and monitors. There are quite a few excellent laptop screens, particularly among the workstation and higher end business class models from HP, Dell and Lenovo. The HP DC2 (IPS) and Dell Precision RGBLED, are the best laptop screens on the market today, but they come attached to very expensive computers and are themselves $500+ options. Lenovo also makes an excellent IPS FHD screen for its high end W7xx line of workstations. Among more affordable consumer models, the Dell XPS 15 B+RGLED is the standard-bearer and nearly as good as any TN laptop LCD made (it is also used in Sager and Clevo laptops) and the Sony Z2 (both the 900p and 1080p) at 13" is also in a class by itself. For a large, heavy gaming/DTR the Asus G74 also has an excellent LCD. The Envy 17 3D is in league here as well. MBPs are quite good too, particularly in matte, just a bit lower in overall quality than the others, but very respectable. I'm probably missing a few, but most of the other FHD laptop screens (eg, from HP, Sony, Dell) are ok but not top tier.

(EDIT: Oops! I forgot to mention: the HP Radiance screens from the Envy 13 and 14, now defunct, were right up there among the best TNs ever made with gorgeous colors. Somehow HP managed to contract with a company to make these brilliant displays and not only did they fail to purchase enough of them to keep the company in business, but they couldn't apparently find a way to buy the company or purchase the design specs and/or specialized equipment to enable someone else to make them for HP nor, apparently, did anyone else buy them. The history of this screen and HP is nothing short of bizarre; it was really the feature that made the Envy 14 such a hit when it came out and since they discontinued a few months later, the 14 has been just a "good laptop," with the halo effect of the originals with Radiance displays.

Funny you should mention, I didn't think the 15 was confirmed as an IPS panel, but it seems to be stated as factual here so I assumed it was "proven." If it is IPS and they are not promoting it, well, it would be among the dumbest marketing non-decisions I've seen in a long time. Even if it is not a particularly high end IPS screen, for reasons not needing repeating, the vast majority of customers think,"if it's IPS, it's the best there is!"

Well, if HP has not put it in print (and "knowledgeable" bloggers do not count in my book as "confirmation.") then I would seriously question that it is IPS, especially if its specs are above average at best - though that would also describe the IPS display in the Thinkpad X-220. There are many excellent TN displays (see above) that have great brightness, contrast, color gamut, etc..

You seem to be of two minds, but I agree, mostly, with both of them! Seriously, I agree that most IPS screens are better than average to outstanding while the worst screens being made today are TNs. But there's no reason to use IPS as a "gold standard," just find a review (especially in Notebookcheck.net or Anandtech.com) that will give you all the strengths and weaknesses of the model you are considering.

I think you've nailed it there!

 

You guys have sucked the Christmas joy right out of me. I'm practically ready to set up my 15 for return and I haven't even picked it up yet.

 

Lovelaptops,
Your knowledge on screens greatly valued. Not to drag the thread too far afield but in your list, as an affordable alternative, would you place the Dell e6520 screen somewhere among those mentioned, that is the FHD screen. Received very good rating from Notebookcheck and I am considering it but would appreciate your honest input and thanks.

Gary

 

No, no, no!!! The new Envy 15 is a great, great computer. I didn't mean to agree with anyone else's comments regarding its merits except to say that its screen sounds more like it's good to very good, not the "outstanding," "superb," etc that some people were calling it simply because of the belief that it uses IPS technology and is 1080p.

From all I've read, it's a wonderful computer; I may get one myself (like I'm such an expert anyway, lol!). Besides, with HP you get 21 days to try it and decide for yourself. Screen quality is in the eyes of the beholder; if you like it, it's great. Rest of the machine is awesome. I had a 14 and adored it, this can ony be better.

Sorry, I have long had a thing about people's misperceptions about screens and brands' refusal to make good ones and to promote them honestly. That's what prompted my little know-it-all tantrum post.

Be happy!! Joy to the World!

I'm not familiar with the screen, Gary, but that's an excellent machine and if notebookcheck.net gave the screen a thumbs up you can probably take that to the bank. Make sure you order the screen on their review unit because they sometimes get a high-spec version to review and the standard display can be much worse.

I'm getting out of the "screen expert" business - I've already told everything I know and I don't want to spoil anybody else's day!

 

@lovelaptops
Thx for your honest posts, you really stick to the facs and you don't get emotional. I'd like to see more posts like this!

And I 100% agree with you, IPS only tells you that the screen is not bad, not that it is great! I am looking out for OLED anyway, can't be too long anymore until we see the first notebooks if you follow the recent developments.

Ok, I shut up now or this gets too far OT ;-)

 

how long do you think? I'm calling 2014

 

Thank you for your kind words. I think I'm the one who already got this way OT! I'll be hanging back for owners to report in from now on.

 

is it confirmed the ips on the 15 only covers 60% of the rgb gamut?

 

How does the new Envy 15 screen compare to the current MacBook Air 13" or the Lenovo ThinkPad W5x0 FHD screen? Those two are my point of reference unless you want to throw in the Lenovo FlexView screens from the T60p era.

I'm using the MacBook Air a lot. I expect the Envy 15 to be as good or better. Sounds like the screen on the Envy 15 is worthy.

 

On the same page as LoveLaptops and Ruberstein, the screen in the Envy 15 is pretty good, but not awesome like the Dreamcolor IPS on HP's workstation notebook.

It has ultra wide viewing angels (180 degree like the Ipad). But on the other end, it has a color gamut that is similar to low end screens (think every notebook at bestbuy except for the macbook pros). It has good contrast ratio 500:1+. It has very good black levels.

For me the viewing angle trumps the color gamut, I totally love this screen. Its not just being able to view the screen when tilt. Its also the clarity that it provides, the screen is sharp and does not tire the eyes over extended use.
Not sure how to describe it, but let me try, its like each pixel doesn't light bleed like a TN screen does (this is just my impression I donot know if a TN screen will technically light bleed).

Visually compare to a Macbook Air 13, they both show similar color gamut, envy looks clearer as described above. For the Thinkpad W510, the color is better on the Thinkpad, but again the Envy looks clearer.

 

Cool. That's what I figured. Sounds like I am going to like the machine (at least from the screen point of view).

 

well if it's better than a 2011 MBA (we have 2 in the house, an original and a 2011) then I'll be happy

one thing that bothers me with my 14 is the bad viewing angles; tilt my head slightly and the whites swap between green and pink hues - stability is super duper important

how would it compare to an ipad 2?

 

Ipad 1 and Ipad 2 uses the same IPS screen. So yes the Envy 15 will have similar viewing angles as a Ipad2. Anything IPS you can tilt 180 degree and the color won't change. A low end TN screen 5 degree, a wide angle TN about about 25 degree.

I am guessing you have the 1366x768 resolution on your 14?

 

No, I have the 1600x900 original radiance

 

We're on the same boat then, when it comes to viewing angles I am extremely picky about it. Slight color shift annoys the hell out of me.

 

Now that I have both, I've got to say that the lack of the 15's ability to reproduce any sort of RED is concerning. Really concerning.

The laptop itself aside (it's great).....the screen.....I don't think I can say it's better than the 14's just yet. I'm going to take pics and do a more in depth A-B test later tonight as I mull things over.

 

15 vs. 14

Envy 14 vs. Envy 15 (2011) - YouTube
hope this helps people

 

Thanks Lvivkse. The Envy 14 had its overly reddish tint but the colors to my eye are are much more vivid and saturated. It produces a real red, good purples and blues. I had the 14 and 15 side-by-side and for me there was no real comparison. I am still stunned every time I look at the 14 (original Radiance). I was not stunned by the 15 (at least not in a good way). Due to other problems the 15 has gone back to HP on RMA for refund. I do wonder if blowing the screen up from 1600x900 to 1920x1080 made the colors wash out and be less vivid. Not sure that would affect the bad red reproduction though. I just think it is a different panel and not as good quality as the original.

If you are interested, I have used this Sharp HD demo as a baseline on my monitors. It pretty much puts them through their paces. You might enjoy trying side-by-side on the 14 and 15 as I did and see what you think. Use the AMD high-power graphics card and run at 1080p. I was even more pleased with my old 14 after watching them run this.

Sharp HD Demo True Colors 1080P - YouTube

 

Run them at full screen. Interesting music on your demo!

 

haha it was the theme song for Escape From New York

edit: how do I use the AMD card on this thing?? on my 14 I just need to right click on the desk top and click switchable graphics, and I get a prompt to select either the intel or ATI

here I have that option but it just brings me to some weird screen with no options?

 

Ah, yes "Escape from New York". Well, I no longer have the Envy 15 but seems you hit esc on booting to get into bios then there is a place to set the AMD graphics to "fixed" mode. Think that enables it. Must say the settings in the 15 were much more complicated for graphics switching than they are on the 14. Wasn't impressed with that either. The 15 was a beautiful machine and really classy on the outside; too bad it didn't continue on the inside to match the classy looks.

 

so....what do we buy now?

 

I intend to keep the Envy 14 for a while longer. Nothing wrong with it for my needs and really like the smaller size. Rumours of an Envy 14 Spectre maybe to be released next year. Will see what that has to offer. I will really be interested to see what kind of screen it has; some are saying it might be an ultrabook. I still have this sneaking suspicion that HP got out-bid on the original Radiance screens by Apple or Asus or somebody and if we see those screens again it might be on their products.

I'm not a big laptop person--drag it to work some and take it on trips; rest of the time I'm hooked to my desktop. Only reason I ever considered Envy was the absolute best looking display I had ever seen on a laptop and I stand by that as far as the original Envy 14 goes. The rest is nice and well-built but not a bargain really. By the way, were you able to configure the AMD graphics on the 15?

 

Hello, In fact Envy15 use latest AMD VGA tech(PX4) that application will auto select IGPU or DGPU to balance performance and battery life, while Envy14 use previous AMD VGA switch Tec(PX3) Tech that switch GPU based on AC/DC and manual setting which will cause black screen during switch. Envy15 support both PX4(default) and PX3(fixed) while you can selection in BIOS. That is simple.

 

uncalibrated 14 on the right, personally calibrated 15 radiance on the left:

 

Are you using an external sensor like the Datacolor Spyder3Elite to do calibration?

 

Judging by the RGB wheel, the blue is lacking richness, and besides red it definitely can't display violet either.