Envy 15 fixed multiplier (x7) on battery

My Envy has the i7-720QM processor. I noticed significant reduced performance when running on battery.

RealTemp, Sandra, i7Turbo, Intel turbo boost monitor, cpuid, etc.. all report the multiplier at 7 (~930MHz), and won't move from there no matter what I do on the machine.

The multiplier seems locked/fixed at 7 regardless of load. As soon as it is unplugged it dives to 7.

I've changed the power plan to high performance and set min/max power management to 100%. This made no difference.

Is the BIOS forcing this? I believe 7 is the low frequency multiplier but shouldn't this kick in only is there is no activity (to save power?). If I am doing work, I expect the processor to at least run at the minimum frequency specified.

This behavior has been confirmed now by other members of the forum. Previos BIOS releases (F.05 and F.06) have been tested and showed the same issue.

I attached two screenshots, one the system running on power, and the other one on battery. Both running prime95 small FFTs.

Appreciate any feedback.

 

Info from eagle:

 

bigcat400: What happens when you put a check mark in the Set Multiplier box of ThrottleStop? That option is designed to force the multiplier higher. Post a screen shot with that enabled along with i7 Turbo.

RealTemp GT is designed for the upcoming 6 core Gulftown processors. Try the regular RealTemp.exe which is designed to show all 4 of your cores.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/u79b5p

If you have any trouble with this version just let me know.

 

I attached a screenshot. For some reason, it seems the system ignores throttlestop.

 

Any update on this? Doesn't look like many of the Envy owners are seeing this, or maybe don't realize it is going on?

I am returning my XPS 1645 and am thinking about the Envy.

 

Wasn't the XPS 1645 having similar throttle issue as well?

 

It seems most people are unaware of this. I am thinking of calling HP tomorrow and request support. Just in case they are not aware of this. This is a problem. Either they fix it or start listing two sets of specs (battery and power). This system is useless on battery unless you only use it to browse the web.

 

In the Control Panel -> Power Options do you have the minimum and maximum processor state both set to 100%?

What happens when you are running a single thread of Prime95 on battery? Is it still locked at 7.0 times? If you were on AC power running a single thread what does i7 Turbo report? If you pull out the power cable while it is running does it immediately drop to 7.0?

There were issues during Windows 7 beta testing with the multiplier getting stuck at 7 on DFI X58 boards but I think a bios update finally fixed that.

I'll check this thread when I get the chance. Try a few more tests so I can try to understand this issue better.

The bios might lock your laptop to 7X on battery power to protect the battery. It's time that manufacturers started being more upfront about the various methods of throttling that they are using.

The XPS 1645 has plenty of throttling issues but at least with that one we've found a way to over ride the throttling by using a 130 watt adapter combined with ThrottleStop. Hopefully we can find a fix for the HP laptops too.

 

Yes, 100% min/max for battery and AC power

Yes, locks at 7 regardless of load.

i7 reports high multipliers (19, 16, 14, 20). Screenshot attached.

Yes, it immediately drops. Like hitting the off switch. Doesn't appear to be a controlled slow down, all multipliers go 7 immediately. Screenshot attached.

 

That is clearly a bios issue. I guess the manufacturer forgot to mention that you were buying a 933 MHz computer when running on battery power. If buyers knew that they probably would have said no thanks and bought something else. A clear case of false advertising if HP decides not to fix this issue. Someone on the Dell forums contacted the Better Business Bureau and I think more people need to do the same.

It's very unlikely that I will be able to write a tool to fix this problem but I've got one idea that I'd like to give a try. Give me a day or two and I'll send you a link to a modified version of my ThrottleStop program. I've got a bad feeling that this locked multiplier is in the bios and no Windows based software will make any difference. The top left corner of the individual multiplier boxes corresponds with the top left corner of the C0 Percent boxes so it's easy to see what thread is doing what.

At least with the throttling Dell and Alienware laptops, there are ways to work around their schemes.

The way to read i7 Turbo is the two outside threads on the top row are doing most of the work, (they have the highest C0%), and so they are averaging the highest multiplier. Those two average a 20X multiplier which is an overall speed of 2.66 GHz which is pretty much the same thing the Intel widget is showing. The box immediately to the right of that box is the second thread of core 0. The two boxes beside them on the top row are for core 1. You can see for each core that one thread works hard while the second hyper thread is mostly asleep. For core 2 both threads are mostly asleep. The CPU automatically arranges the threads so cores can go to sleep and so it can use the highest possible multiplier as much as possible.

 

Thank you for pointing this out, will run some test myself.
Great software I did not know about.

 

I feel exactly the same way. This is so bad they should list two sets of specs. I called HP yesterday and they couldn't find anyone familiar with the Envy. The "tech" person they had me talked to didn't know what I was talking about. I think she didn't know what a multiplier was. I had to hang up since family was waiting. Will try again after the holidays.

I have a bad feeling too . But will be happy to try anything you can come up with. Appreciate your effort.

Thanks for taking time to explain this. I didn't know how core/threads were laid out in the display (horizontal or vertical). It's clear now.

 

It'd be nice if someone can test the new version of ThrottleStop to see if it can prevent the multiplier from falling (thanks to unclewebb). I won't have my machine for a few days. Otherwise, I'll post the results once I get the machine back.

 

I see this locked multiplier too. I expected _some_ throttling of the video card by default, but this is clearly not as advertised... Very tempted to return this Envy now!

 

I had a chance to test the new throttlestop with the chip mod feature. Unfortunately, it did not make any difference on battery.

 

I'm not surprised bigcat400. I don't think there's anything I can do to correct this with software. There's one more thing that I'd like to try though. I'll send you a PM in a day or two with a special version of ThrottleStop for testing purposes.

 

There's a new BIOS out there recently according to the other threads... might be worth looking into.

 

For this machine? Where? What threads? I heard a similar issue was fixed on dv6ts with a new BIOS.

 

There is the F.07A BIOS available.

 

yes, that has been out for a few weeks already. It makes no difference as far as this issue.

 

Are you sure? I tried that program and I get using real temp 3.4 12 running wPrime 32M on all threads.

 

look at your multipliers with i7 Turbo running the same test on battery power.

 

Yeah, I just got my machine tonight, and I have tested on battery and I am locked at 7X.

 

what do you get as a score when you run wprime 32m on battery with high power setting?

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5722885&postcount=2537

The latest versions of ThrottleStop also show you the multiplier for each thread. I combined TS with i7 Turbo and also added some temperature data to TS today. All the important data in one log file makes life easier.

bigcat400: I should have time tomorrow to send you a special version of TS to see if it can make any difference to the 7X multi problem.

 

on battery: 21.9
on AC power: 14.7

note I am running a 820QM now, so I am locked at x9 (instead of x7)

EDIT: fixed the scores, had them incorrectly switched.

 

Thanks. That's really convenient. Take your time. We can't run on battery for too long anyway

 

Himm, on AC you are getting a worse score than on battery. 14.7 seconds on battery, all I can say that that is not a 900mhz CPU. QX9300 overclocked to 3GHZ gets 13 seconds. Even if the 21.9 socre belongs to battery, it is still hell of a score since X9100 gets about 20 seconds which is 3.06GHZ.

 

Yeah, the scores are switched. Sorry for the confusion. So it's 21.9 on battery. I also mentioned this is a 820QM now, so the processor is running @ 1.2GHz on battery (locked 9 multiplier)

 

Have you checked you power profiles? I had mine fixed to up to 25% load, and the laptop felt SLOOOW, and I fixed it.

 

Still even with 820QM 21.9 is a great great score. Check out what people are getting for the same CPU for 32M Wprime. link . So your scores are not like they are locked at way low speeds or anything.

 

yep, it's all in the original post. This is not a problem with my laptop. It's a problem with all Envys.

Same comment. I don't care what any score is. Fact is, the multiplier is locked on battery, and practical performance is horrible, and noticeable without running any bench tools. Initially, before I knew about this problem, I noticed it just by browsing the web. Very sluggish IE. That's how I started looking at the processor, etc..

Again, this problem is now very well documented in the Next Bench and so forth. It's a known problem. It has nothing to do with my machine folks.

 

From everything I'm reading it looks like it's a BIOS issue with C-states, and they're still working on it. F.07 doesn't fix it completely, only partially. Basically, ACPI compliance has been an afterthought with the Envy Seems like they have some people working on it, though.

 

Could you tell us a little bit more about how F.07 improves the situation, even if it doesn't fix it completely?

 

F.07A fixed the speed of the fans to make it quieter, since in F.06A it was noisy but a tad cooler. Also fixed was an iPhone problem when syncing. Those are all AFAIK. The only one published by HP was the iPhone thing, the fans I noticed immediately after the flash.

 

I have a new Sony F Series with a core i7 820QM processor, and it has this EXACT same problem. Running passmark or whatever you can see a massive drop in performance when the system is on AC power vs the battery. When you run CPU-Z you can see the clock multiplier is locked to 9.0x when on battery, and will only go higher on AC power.

it's NOT related to cooling at all. Running games for hours on end, then re-testing the passmark on ac power, you get the exact same results. The processor doesn't tend to overheat and throttle itself down at all.

but if you remove AC power, it drops even when cold down to 9.0x multiplier and nothing you do raises it at all.

I wonder how I can communicate this problem to Sony, or how this will ever get resolved....

-Roger

 

any ETA on a bios update?

 

It seems to me that BIOS engineers are lacking with the new core mobile cpu's.

Maybe they should sit down with Intel and figure out how to take advantage of Turbo while on battery

 

Thanks for reporting this. It seems then that only Dell got things right when running on battery. Unfortunately, they screwed up when running on ac power.

The feedback I am getting from HP (both tech support and the next bench) is that the multiplier is locked by design on battery, and there are no plans to change this. Tech support is very frustrating to work with, and you're never sure whether or not they know what they are talking about. I am really not holding my breath anymore on HP fixing this.

 

Well, the "battery cap" answer is complete BS.

There is no reason that battery can't fully power the CPU.

Look, the CPU isn't even THAT power hungry. It's utter nonsense, really.

 

What do cows have to do with anything?

 

I don't have an Envy but a DV7 with the i7 720.

If I unplug the ac with the laptop running in the "high performance mode" everything is fine while on battery even the turbo mode works fine.

If I unplug the ac when i'm on the "power saver" profile, everything works fine, although the cpu is locked at 933mhz.

One problem i've found though is that if I put the laptop into power saver mode while plugged in it throttles down to 133mhz (1x multi) no joke, check out the screen shot

Sorry for the huge size, was running dual monitors at the time.

 

Silvr6,

Thank you for confirming that everyone who thinks these batteries can't power the core i-whatevers are extremely naive.

Not to be harsh, but I caught A LOT of flack for trying to explain this and everyone was like "yeah, that battery is only 56W so fred is right".

Clearly people around the HP section need to read up and learn more about portable computers

 

I fixed it just for you

 

well it was confirmed on thenextbench forums that this was a bios fix. If i'm not mistaken tho doesnt the DV7 come with a 9 cell compared to the envy's 6 cell? Has anyone tried running the same tests with the slice and standard battery? If the 6 cell battery truly couldnt handle the core i7 alone then i'm sure with the slice it should have plenty of powers to run at full capacity

 

Yes, I tried with the slice.

Confirmed by who? The only statement from HP I've seen is the non-sense the Frosty clueless guy posted.

 

Looks like HP is looking in to it. http://www.thenextbench.com/t5/HP-E...ier-locked-at-x7-on-battery/td-p/51661/page/2

 

yep, hopefully he doesn't mean they are just revisiting their lame explanation, to come up with something else.

 

update:
HP staff have confirmed they have no plans on unlocking the envy CPU speed from low frequency (idle) mode (locked at 933 mhz for 720qm, 1.2 ghz for 820qm and i5s) while on battery power:
http://www.thenextbench.com/t5/foru...sage-id/669/print-single-message/false/page/2

While the cheaper DV6t can throttle it's speed up to max speed and down to min speed while on battery power, the Envy cannot because the Envy uses a different battery technology (lithium polymer) than the DV6t (lithium ion). Lithium polymer enables the Envy to be thinner and lighter, but apparently doesn't hold quite as powerful of a charge.

When the Intel Core CPUs don't have enough power for turbo mode, it automatically gets disabled. When turbo mode is disabled, the CPU gets locked on to low frequency mode (multiplier gets locked at 7x or 9x). While 900mhz-1.2ghz is much weaker than most laptops in the past few years are on battery power (and low frequency mode doesn't allow throttling down to less than 7x to save battery power), it is the price you pay for transportability.

 

^

Yawn.

Another lame response.

I bought this laptop therefore I should decide if I want 15 minutes worth of battery or not. NOT HP.