Envy 17 3D mini review

Thx thats more like the answer i was looking for.
I'll wait till the laptop comes and see how it goes

 

Thanks ive never been to this site before but i was looking into the envy and i found it and read through alot of the forums. Was very informative. Just ordered my envy 17 3d yesterday with 200 off. Hope it gets here within two months! they said that they were way backed up with it because they were recieving so many orders.

Yea the only problem i see with the envy 17 is the palm rest getting hot. As long as the CPU only goes into the 80s for gaming or rare occasions then i dont see a problem. Some people are more concerned however and i can see their point but ill have no problem with it. Its a extremely nice machine and for its size extreme heat is expected.

So in other words your right the CPU going up to 80 is fine and there should be no problems.

The heat is from the components being used. It is then transfered up to the plam area I believe.

 

It just boggles my mind how it can reach 84C and 89C, I mean this is the end of 2010.

My 2006 MBP's CPU reaches max 72C and the GPU (x1600) never maxes 60C.

My M11x never maxes 55C on the cpu and max on GPU (335m) is 60C.

My friend's Envy 15 R2 i5-520M maxes out at 55C and GPU at 63C.

This is the reason why I am returning the laptop - I'm thinking long term. I know something will eventually burn out - it may or may not be cpu or gpu, but based on the heat that is coming out of those fans - it's pretty goddamn hot (scorching even).

I'm not trying to upset potential owners; this is my experience with my laptop - who knows I might have a bad apple.

P.S - returning the laptop 100% now that I've seen engadget's post of HP dv7 using the new i7-2630QM quad running at 2.0ghz @ 32nm. Didn't think they would update this early. I'll wait for the Envy 17 3D revision 2.

 

Whats your CPU's on the other lap tops.
The I7 is a much hotter CPU it is expected to have more heat. something may or may not burn out. Ive seen other gaming laptops that are hotter then this one and they are still chugging along quite nice.

But i understand your point completley. Its to bad the engineers are not straightforward so we could know if it really will kill a system over time with that high of temperatures.

 

I second that. I think this laptop should be discounted at least $300 from the current price in light of the new and improved Sandy Bridge laptops near on the horizon.

 

well I back up armoured. If his unit is really that hot, than he should return it. I'm glad to hear you plan on getting another Envy 17 3D soon.... I will see how mine works/feels like and decide based on that experience.

 

Holy
Mother
Of god.

I take back what I said about this laptop. Jeezsus I am speechless right now. literally I don't even know what to say.

I figured that since I would return this thing I would just see how hot I could get it......now this is what I did.

Put it on a wooden desk and covered the vent up........

WHILE running
WoW - everything ultra including shadows.
BC2 - Ultra maxed af/aa
IntelBurn - Maximum mode
Wprime
1080P firefox youtube video
1080P video using HP media


The temps reached 85C and the GPU reached 89C maxed.................for 8min.........with the fans covered up. Holy crap this one good fan - temps never went above...

Now I decided not to use my Coolermaster U2 with the fans on, so I did this.


Leaving the vents fully opened with nothing blowing into it/vice versa.

Now this is what impressed me the most - with everything still on - it only reached the maximum temps you see - 75C on all 4 cores and only 83C for the GPU - for a good 10 min while I played GT5.

I am simply stunned. This computer - with 1 fan, is a bloody champ. I believe now that my cooler master U2 blew hot air back into the vents, thus even when it was elevated went to 89C.

Also this processor is insane. I was able to play BC2 with everything in the background running, I've never seen anything like it. My E8400 sure can't do that.

 

armoured!!! LOL Amazing stuff what you're doing.... well, now I don't feel so bad.... again, my dv7 was reaching the 80s but it was not hot...hmmm I don't know, maybe just play with it a few more days....maybe it will adjust...bah, I don't know...but you do have some time...and didn't someone post since its the holidays we have more than 21 days? Is it more like over a month? Well, if so, I plan on testing it, using it...etc..and see how much I fall for this baby... time will tell....

P.S. This is good news since I never planned on buying a cooling pad....


KJ

 

Here is Envy 17 3D BEFORE and WHILE running Left 4 Dead 2.

The BEFORE is after the computer has been turned on for a while and just using the internet browser.

The WHILE is after playing the game for at least 10 minutes and puttign into windowed mode to take the screenshot.

The room temp was 72 degrees. I am using the 9cell battery which helps lift the computer off the desk a bit more than 6 cell.

John

 

3 more temp readings while playing Left 4 Dead 2:

1) Lowest max GPU (81degrees) whlle using antec cooler:

Antec.com - Product: Notebook Cooler to go

2) Unplugged cooler but running with 9cell lifted off table by the cooler (83 degrees).

3) Unplugged cooler with laptop back on table with 9 cell battery (86 degrees)

So, clearly the best way to keep the laptop cool is to keep the intake as cool and open as possible.

 

I just did a bunch of web searching regarding these temperature issues and came up with the following:

The intel spec sheet for this family of processors:
http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/320765.pdf

Around page 50 you see the temperature guidelines and it says max junction temp is around 100C and the cooling package should be designed to at a minimum not allow it to exceed that temperature. I will grant that this does not say whether higher temps in this range will cause any damage but it does suggest that the processor can regulate itself (reducing power draw and performance) to make sure it stays under 100C and avoid damage.

I looked up the data sheets for the non-mobile versions of the i7 processors and they seem to have totally different thermal property descriptions. The mobile processor data sheets describe that 100C as the max Tj which is junction temperature and the non mobile processors describe Tcase max which is around the high 60's C. This link explains the difference between the two. In any case, Tcase max is necessarily lower than the max junction temp because the processor die is the source of the heat in the first place. I didn't bother to see if the necessary coefficients and whatnot were available on the data sheet to convert from one to another but it seems to me that temps in the 80's are probably ok and that the processor will strive to protect itself from harm. I would wager that something about the mobile processor's design makes it more ok with higher temps compared to desktop models. I think so long as you don't notice any of the classic signs of overheat such as corrupted data, incorrect execution, random crashes, severe slowdown, etc then it is probably fine. I guess I'd worry a bit about adjacent components that might not be as hardy.

Still, it probably can't hurt to make good measurements when you receive your unit and then complain to HP if you think it's too hot (at least posting your stats here gives us all a collective set of data so we know if any one of us is far higher than the norm). I read a forum where someone complaining of overheat on his envy 17 got a free extended warranty after HP couldn't figure out his heating problem after sending it back once.

Junction-to-Case thermal resistance Rth(j-c) | Knowledge required for the die temp. calculation | Transistors | Discrete Semiconductors | ROHM CO., LTD.

Another thing that I am not sure of is where the temperature sensor is located though I would imagine that they are on-die and therefore closer to the junction.

This review of a different laptop doesn't seem to think that high 80's C are high for an i7 720qm.
Mobile gaming with Intel Core i7 720QM: MSI GT640 Review

 

Awsome Amoured. I cant wait for this computer to try it out myself. Ive heard that over time the temperature gradually gets lower though im not sure how. Maybe at first the system runs extra hot or something.

Also those are great temperatures for running a demanding game! specially if u have stuff going on in the background

JY wang:
Those are great temperatures as well. If it stays below 80 or very low 80s its doing extremely well in my opinion. Specially if you have settings on highest.

The GPU temperature is great as well

 

I have seen plenty of sources as well that think that temperatures in the 80s were fine! Alot of sources i read believe that as long as you are ten below the TJ (100 in this case so 89 or below) you are doing fine

 

Hmm I was just looking at the trDef3D software that we can get for free...

For the people who got the laptop already, is the software able to convert 2d movies to 3d? and what format is supported?

 

Thanks for the heads up on the Costco special.

Will recovery fit on 16g stick for Win7 Home or Pro? I read in the Owner's Lounge that the OP had Win7 Ultimate and the recovery came in at 16.7g thus had to get the 32g.

 

well it makes sense....since those who did their recovery DVDs stated they used 7 DVDs.... so 4.7gb x 7 = comes out to 32.9gb ? I guess it doesn't really use the disks completely? I think the 32gb should be fine... I am using the 16gb USB drive just for files, movies, etc...not for the recovery DVDs.... even if you did buy the 16gb usb to make it your recovery device, it won't make much economical sense to spend $25.00 when HP will sell you the recovery DVDs soon for just $19.00... I think I might just buy the disks from them... not sure yet.

KJ

 

Ok, I have read everyone's posts on the heat issue. I too was concerned with the heat issue and contemplated send the unit back. I was getting idle temps in the high 60's and low 70's and in the 80's when playing games like Left 4 Dead 2. My Asus G73jh runs idle a high 40's. But that computer has a superior cooling system making the unit bulky. I have left my HP Envy 17 3D running for a majority of the weekend and I now see idle temps of mid to low 50's measuring with RealTemp. Also the fan is not constantly on full speed. I'm not sure if the cpu needed more burn in more time and time for better curing of the thermal paste. I think I'll keep it. While typing this and surfing the internet the CPU temp is in the low 60's. All of this is when the system in on AC power.

 

tony welcome to the forums, and glad you are enjoying your new Envy 17 3D! Hopefully all of will be able to join in the fun.

 

Have you found a more efficient way of placing the fans thus getting lower temps?

 

I have found alot of people state that their envy 17 cooled down over time so who knows.

 

Can someone post a picture of the back of Envy 17 3d and show where is the air intake or out take? I bought a cooler master u3 but as amoured said it might heat the laptop up if it is at the wrong position.

 

Damn, was just about to order an Envy 17 3D, but if an update is coming in january or something, I might wait. It will be hard though, this 3d monster is looking amazing

 

That is another question.... I know they articles now state the dv7 will have it first, so how long until the new Envy 17 3D will get the new processor, or will they call it the envy 18? lol altough I doubt it since the 17 pertains to the 17.3 screen. but yeah, I'm curious to see what develops and will keep a close ear/eye on this issue...

but once more, in 2013 the new 22nm is coming out....so if the SB won't make much of a diff. @32nm, I'm surely willing to wait 2 or so years for the even better tech to come out while having a blast with my Envy 17 3D now.

KJ

 

Most of us know from experience that waiting for better stuff is kinda useless when it comes to technology, but if it's so close that they've already started to prepare DV7's with the new CPU, I think we'll see the same option for Envy 17 very soon as well. And I doubt it will be called anything else, it will most likely just be offered as a optional upgrade or something, atleast that's my guess

I would have just ordered the 17 3D instantly without waiting for the new CPU if it wasn't for all of you guys saying how hot it gets.

 

Well, tonight I've been doing more looking into this SB thing...so what I understand it will have intergrated graphics.....so...does that mean if they put this into a new Envy 17 3D they will not include a discrete graphics card or will day? If they don't how will the performance compare to the Envy 17 3D with the Radeon 5850? This is practice stuff they I'd like to know. If they difference is so small, or if our product will be better with a discrete GPU, then I'll stick with my order... so again, I will continue to monitor this issue. If things are not that great with a SB version Envy...I'll wait for 2013 for the new 22nm tech.

KJ

 

it would have the discrete gpu, as well.

an envy 17 with an integrated intel gpu would be the way to go for better battery performance, since then the discrete gpu would be completely turned off when running on battery (of course, only if set so in the power saving options). that really would be great..

 

This is what I am speculating:

-Envy, Envy 3D and DV series should offer SB as an option, as well as a discrete graphic card option.
-A refresh or update to the ATI 5850 (6770) should be available by that date.

As said before by necrophyte these updates will offer the same benefits (cooler temperatures and longer battery life) that i5 (dual core) are enjoying now. Cooler temperatures make our laptops work more efficiently but also our laptops will have a longer life.

 

discrete gpus will always be present for any mid-end and above system. the additional integrated gpu, that is part of the cpu on the newer cpus, is just an additional gpu mainly for power saving modes, but it will never be the only gpu, except on low-end systems, at least for now (maybe intels igp will beat ati/nvidia somewhen ).

regarding the mobility radeon 6000 - they probably wont be available by january, maybe by the end of q1/2011, but rather q2.

really great to hear that also the i7 are coming with an on-die gpu!

EDIT:

the mobility radeon 6000 seem to be coming earlier!
just hope theyre not rebranded mobility radeon 5000s, as the already leaked mobility radeon 6300 are...

 

The next ENVY can really be a machine that would be close to perfect in terms of portability, power criteria.

I mean with the new CPU's and hopefully switchable graphics, we will have better battery life, as well as the heating issues will be resolved.
Now what else is to desire? (I'm not mentioning the wobble issues, or minor problems with built quality which some users have experienced)

 

I found the best type of cooler is one that draws cool air from the back and feed it under the laptop - this way it is always drawing cool air. I think laptops that draw from underneath might draw in warm air from the exhaust and heat radiated from underneath.

When I used the following, everything underneath the laptop felt cool while gaming:

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzM=

John

 

After looking at a few other coolers such as:

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzI=

I think these would work against the cooling design of the Envy 17 since the Envy 17 has a strong intake and it needs to pull cool air in from this intake. These types of coolers may cause the warm exhaust air to get drawn back in between the laptop and the cooler.

Pics of the intakes and exhaust (The exhaust are the 2 vents to the left of the footing. The rest of the vents are the intake with the small rectangular one between the battery and the exhaust as the primary since the fan is directly behind the vent.)

 

+1 on enjoying it NOW
I have mine ordered with a Dec 08 build with i7-840QM and (SSD 160gb+ 640gb 7200)

 

i agree! I cant wait for mine...to bad it has a december 27 build date...it keeps getting pushed back

 

just bought a viewsonic 3d camcorder. hope it plays nice with the envy.

 

I'll tell you one thing about the 3D on the Envy - it is simply gorgeous.

I've shown everyone of my friend and family members - everyone was in shock and awe. They've all seen Avatar in 3D, but letting them interact with a game like World of Warcraft in 3D - just blew their minds.

They all complimented on how bright the glasses were, and everyone said that the effects just unreal.

Also someone asked if the software converts 2D to 3D - yes it does; and it does it pretty well. Lets just say I tried some "movies" and they were......yeah.

 

lol.... never thought those "movies" would look better in 3d. envy to arrive wednesday or thursday... oh so tempted to buy a 55" b3d bravia too... the deals are pretty nice this time of year.

 

Im no expert on this so it may be a stupid question so it converts blue ray movies to 3d? Thats awsome.

Also does it convert games? or does the game have to be developed for 3d (or recieve some sort of patch)

 

not totally sure on the movie part as I havent try it out yet, but for game you need to download a software Exclusively FREE to envy 17 3d owners which cost 100$ normally. And the software can transfer 2d games to 3d. its call TriDef3D, google it and you can download it free if you have the 17 3d

 

Thank you!
I read this software on this forums but wasnt sure what it exactly did. Thats awsome I cant wait to try it out.

 

It doesnt do Bluray(TriDef3D)...at least thats what it says, does anyone know a program that will upconvert bluray 2d to 3d

 

I had a little time to try out fallout3 in 3d last night. It looked awesome except for a little bit of ghosting on certain objects. Is there any way to adjust the game 3d profile to try to eliminate that?

 

Yeah set a key binding for the 3D menu, set the directional arrows for scrolling.

The guys from 3D vision blog also had ghosting problems with the Envy, but I haven't noticed anything in WoW.

 

I got my Envy 17 3D today, I noticed a vast improvment over the Envy 17 in terms of heat. The machine still goes get hot, but it does not get near as hot as the standard envy 17. I ran wow today with ultra settings, max res and in 3D mode and the palm rest would get warm, but not compleatly uncomfortable like the standard 17. My temps on the machine maxxed out at 80c, but it didn't feel like it. The keyboard flex is there, but it's not that bad at all. There was no wobble with the machine. (using the 9 cell battery).

Overall I am very happy with the 3D envy now that they kind of did something with the heat ( seems like a upgraded fan, I heard it kick on, unlike the other one). I would recommend the Envy 3D to anyone.

 

Boy, if the standard Envy 17 felt hotter than this, I'm really glad I waited for the 3D then...and yeah, there's definitely a fan working its butt off in there.

No wobble to report here either.

 

Does anybody know of a program that can play assorted 3d content on the envy 17 3d? I tried downloading stereoscopic player but I can't seem to make it work with the included 3d demos (though the mediasmart will play them grudgingly if I keep them in the 3d demos folder). I am looking for a player that will play any given 3d content whether it be side-by-side, above-below, or the double rate alternating frames. I can't seem to get mediasmart to play anything but the 3d demos and I don't have a 3d bluray disc to test it with.

 

WickedYeti, I don't know if we are gonna be able to see bluray 3D yet, since the TridDef driveres only play 3D games and DVDs not BluRay, unless HP has another driver for BluRay that we don't know about?

 

According to official HP reply:

I see that you wish to know as the graphics card bundled with the notebook does not have a Blu-ray 3D capability listed, how it will be able to play 3D Blu-ray content.

I realize the importance of your query and will give you appropriate information about the same. Your patience is appreciated.

It is true that the bundled graphics (ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 5850 GPU) does not support 3D Blu-ray decoding natively. I mean, the card does not support hardware acceleration for the Blu-ray 3D’s MPEPG4 MVC codec.

The HP ENVY 17t 3D Edition Notebook PC decodes the Blu-ray 3D’s MPEPG4 MVC codec, through software acceleration. It achieves the task of decoding by employing HP Media Smart Software with 3D support, a powerful Intel Core i processor, XpanD branded glasses, 3D enabled LCD screen. If you have a 3D Blu-ray disc, you can play the movie in 3D mode, without any issues.

In fact, from the factory there are two demos available on the unit. The Megamind trailer and NBA All-Star 2010 trailer. You can find these demos in the following location on your notebook PC.

Source More About the HP Envy 17 3D Laptop using AMD’s HD3D Technology - 3D Vision Blog

He has some interesting tests and observations on this laptop regarding 3D capabilities. And... I don't know how he got one so early.

 

Heh, I was the one that sat waiting for the slow slow customer support chat to figure out that answer. It eventually came in an email I think because they had no idea what the answer was on the fly. I think i discovered that blog entry before stumbling onto these forums.

It is very possible to view 3d content here but I'm trying to figure out how to do it either with better video player (included stuff sucks and the stuff I download from HP site that is supposedly for this laptop either fails to install or fails to work). It would be nice to have support for 3d youtube videos too. Also I can't figure out how to get the "making 2d look like 3d" that was advertsed to work either. I guess I haven't explored it fully. My first priority is figuring out how to get rid of the awful ghosting I am seeing when I play fallout 3 in stereoscopic mode. The adjustments available in-game via 3d menu do not help. I think there is some kind of driver fine tuning I have not figured out how to do yet.

 

also, are you guys just able to double click on the sample videos and have them work? or do you have to click on them from the "3d demo" window within that awful awful mediasmart dvd player? When the videos are in a diff folder compared to default path, I can't get them to open. It just complains about something or other and tells me to insert disc.

 

WickedYeti and JesterC so let's see if we can totally understand this... (by we, I mean Me! lol)

So, the Envy 17 3D will play 3D movie DVDs, and 3D BluRays without any further driver/programs needed (of course the occassional driver updates).....

and the ONLY reason to download and install the Tridef drivers/proram is JUST to allow people to play/convert 2D DVD movies to 3D and also 2D PC games into 3D? Did I get that right??? In other words, if the PC game is made to only play in 3D mode (which I am sure won't happen for a long time if ever) then we won't need the Tridef, but if its 2D then we do....


KJ