Envy 17 Temperature Logs- Post them.

Due to contradictory statements by many users, I wish to invite everyone to post your temperatures of the Envy 17. Some claim to be getting idle temperatures of 50c, others 70c, others 80cs.

This will also help protect everyone in case of future issues with people's Envy's in terms of overheating/dying. We can have a collective log that everyone may use for support.

________________________COPY HERE___________________________

Format and my entry

Model (Include Full Model):
Vendor (ex: Newegg, Amazon, HP Store, etc):
CPU:a
Battery Pack: 6 Cell, 9 Cell (there is a difference)
Any CPU configurations:
(parking cores, power options settings min/max processor states, etc)
GPU/ Clocks/ Catalyst version:
Fan noise (best describe your fan's usage; slow, fast, loud etc)

Temperatures for CPU:
Idle:
Load (70% CPU usage or higher- Prime 95 preferred):
Temperature of Room: CRITICAL!

----------------------------------Stop Copying here----------------

 

Format and my entry

Model (Include Full Model): HP Envy 17-1181NR
Vendor (ex: Newegg, Amazon, HP Store, etc): Newegg.com
CPU: i7-720QM
Battery Pack: 6 Cell and 9 Cell- I have both.
Any CPU configurations: 10%-100% Min/max Processor states, all cores are in use.
GPU/ Clocks/ Catalyst version: HD 5850 1GB DDR5- Clocks 500 mhz core/900 mhz memory. Catalyst 10.2 Latest driver
Fan noise: Fan noise is loud, most of the time after 30 minutes.
Temperatures for CPU:
6 Cell battery
Idle: 71c-73c
Load (70% CPU usage or higher- Prime 95 preferred): 93c~ peaking at 96c
Temperature of Room: 25c-26c

CPU Temperatures
9 Cell battery
Idle: 62-66c
Load: 88c~ average, sometimes shows as peaking at 91c sometimes at 94c
Room Temperatures: 25c-26c

 

Holy crap. Idle of 71c-73c? I'd totally buy HP's insurance.

 

I sent the laptop for repair, we shall see. I suspect, or more like I am sure it is a design flaw (3 heatpipes+1 fan for a HD 5850+i7 720QM is hardly adequate).

 

Damn. I heard somewhere that the Envy 15 came with 3 fans. The absence of an ODD allowed for this. The Envy 14 comes with 2 small fans. The E17 has one big large fan. Hopefully the Envy 17 3D's coolsense technology will help things a bit!

 

That is true for the Envy 15.

CPU has a 2 Pipe/2 Fan HSF. The GPU had a SEPERATE 1 Pipe/1 Fan HSF.

Also, based on the pictures shown for the new E17, I don't think CoolSense is being implemented at all as the design shown on their site is still the old design.

 

Unless they stick a 6000 rpm fan (if I am not mistaken MBP's use a 6k rpm fan) and sandy bridge really produces less heat, they will have another generation of overheating.

Anyways HP now has my laptop, although their CSO status is stupidly late they have not even updated that they shipped the box for the laptop yet, even though I received it and shipped it out.

Also let's try keeping this about the Envy 17's temperatures, cmon you guys post!

 

Model (Include Full Model): 3D Envy first gen
CPU:720QM
Battery Pack: 6 Cell
Fan noise (best describe your fan's usage; slow, fast, loud etc)
Max fans was 4500rpm.


Temperature of Room: basement cold


Temperature of Room: upstairs 76F

 

This is practically one of the reasons I get pissed off every time people here on NBR about needing an optical drive. People, get with the times! 1TB drives are dirt cheap these days and Samsung just came up with the means to make a 1TB/platter drive. This means we'll be seeing 4TB drives sometime in the near future. No ODD in future Envies means one more fan and lower weight!

 

If the pipes didn't corrode like mine did, then theoretically if would make the laptop very cool...

 

Whoa. Probably bad design or choice of materials? I'm no engineer myself, but I'm pretty sure the extra fan allowed for a really robust GPU. The 5830 when it was first placed in the E15 was one of the best and still is today.


As a side note, it's funny how my two laptop recommendations to my friend turned out to be the best choice at that time. Back in 2004, I told my friend to spend the extra $300 on a 3-year warranty for his Dell. He initially regretted the decision, told me he shouldn't have listened to me. For the next 3 years down the road, he starts getting all these problems. Hard drive dies three times, screen goes out, and a host of other problems pop up, all leading to the warranty paying for itself in the form of Dell sending reps to his house to do repairs on the spot. Incidentally, my friend was going through some tough financial times, so the irony is that splurging on the warranty actually helped him save quite a few out of pocket costs.

In 2010, I told my friend about a fairly new thin/light form factor notebook HP was releasing. I warned him that though the second generation version had nixed most of the problems common in the first generation's, it didn't have an optical drive and all the available data I had on it was gleaned from NBR forums. I told him about Bing cashback rewards and student discounts. My friend looked up the notebook, did more research, and agreed it suited his needs best as a someone who travels a lot. He accidentally combined HP's student discount with Bing cashback and later regretted it when we found out HP could cancel cashback. Several months later, we both find that not only did HP honor his student discount, but Microsoft had also given him his cashback reward--twice!

The notebook has been to HP's repair depot and back once with the least amount of hassle possible for a faulty hard drive. Since then, he's loved his notebook. It runs StarCraft 2 and now Dragon Age 2 with no lag. Its thin/light form factor allows him to take it for trips across the country in his backpack. He's somewhat of a science buff, so he recognizes good engineering when he opens up his notebook to blow out the vents and fans. This notebook is none other than the second generation Envy 15. Perhaps one of the best notebooks of its time and arguably still to this day.

Here's to hoping they refresh the E14 with new stuff or better yet, bring back the E15 with no optical drive. *Crosses fingers.*

 

If it wasn't for the bad build quality, I would agree with you that the Envy 15 was an unique laptop that can game but also you can carry with you everywhere. The 5830 was not a shabby graphics card and if the pipes didn't corrode, the cooling system was amazing (I did switching the HSF's and the new ones were fantastic! ). However, I didn't want to burden myself any further dealing with the defects, so I sold it for an Elitebook. However, again, if it wasn't for the massive problems I had to endure, I am sure to say I would of kept the Envy 15 for long-time use.

In conclusion, if it was well-built and it is a 2nd-Gen Envy 15, then it is truly a good laptop for its class. However, if it wasn't built so well, it can infuriate you greatly to a point that you want something else. I ended up being the latter after so many repairs (on top of a replacement), but if the patient or the lucky manages to get a good unit, I am sure it is a wonderful and powerful laptop for the money and size.

 

Crimsoned, if you think your temps are bad, try mine


Model (Include Full Model): Envy 17 1000NR CTO
Vendor (ex: Newegg, Amazon, HP Store, etc): Bought it used from Ebay
CPU: Core i5 520M (yes not even an i7)
Battery Pack: 6 Cell, 9 Cell (there is a difference) 6 cell
Any CPU configurations: High Performance
(parking cores, power options settings min/max processor states, etc)
GPU/ Clocks/ Catalyst version: 10.2
Fan noise (best describe your fan's usage; slow, fast, loud etc) Always loud, even in Bios

Temperatures for CPU:
Idle: 50C ish
Load (70% CPU usage or higher- Prime 95 preferred): SC2, 105C
Temperature of Room: CRITICAL! 22C

GPU: SC2 for 1hr, 113C.

Yes it's a freakin fire hazard. Sent it back for fixing.

StrikeSaber now you make me want to sell my 17 and get a 15 as my DTR...

 

OS distribution and recovery disks are still convinient with an ODD. If you have one and only one HDD in your one and only one computer, and the HDD crashes, an optical recovery disk to boot from is a nice bonus . Optical media is still more temperature and time stable than magnetic rotating spindle technology.

 

Boot USB flash drives. Try 'em.

 

Okay HP Officially is useless.
They updated my repair status to say that HP wished to contact me, etc. I gave them a call 20 minutes later they tell me there was nothing wrong with my notebook, I asked if they thought 96c was perfectly normal for CPU temperature he said yes.

I asked to speak with a technician or his superior and they give me the typical HP run around were they transfer you from department to department saying you are on the wrong department or they say they are transferring you to a superior but really are transferring you to a wrong department. This would be the 5th time I call about an HP repair service and am given this exact same run around.

I am about to bypass the pleasantries and try getting a hold of someone in administration if the next person who answers gives me the same issue.

 

If you can find a well-built 2nd Generation one, then I suggest you should go for it. The 5830's in the Envy 15's aren't crippled either and most are fantastic overclockers! That said, the support updates for their drivers are almost non-existent now thanks to their discontinuation.

 

sorry deleted post

 

sure thats the trend, and I'll be there when the OS is available to purchase via flash, and the cost comes down compared to writeable optical media. Entertainment is still readily available on optical media , so whether or not we like it, optical drives will continue to be a commodity for a bit, so that a writeable optical disk is still cheeper to purchase than the USB drive.

 

Wait. So let me get this straight. You're willing to sacrifice 1 pound of lightness and an extra cooling fan just to have the option of having restoreable media on a DVD? Just how often do you clean install your computer? You do know that media is increasingly available for download? Steve Jobs for a good reason doesn't give a rat's about blu-ray--and he made the right decision. Macbook Pro sales are still climbing every year. Now we have Amazon offering free streaming services. These days, 720p/1080p streamable videos offer visual quality that's about on par with what I see on blu-ray movies.


But a willingness to sacrifice so much just to have factory restore media...Wow..............................


I'm at loss for words.

 

take a breath dude I'm not describing my preference I'm describing the industry trend and costs. Sure Im all for ditching the ODD to make room for other stuff, but what I'm saying is that this isn't happening quite yet and Optical is convinient enough for me, and I don't see a compelling reason to spend more money on flash when I have optical. Due to the entertainment industry, optical is here for a bit whether we like it or not, and right now it is cheeper to build an optical recovery disk.

The closest we have now to the disapearing ODD is the slot-load drives as seen on the Envy. The thing I don't get is why people whine about this drive not being capable of writing blu-ray. why is that? because legacy home theatre systems still have optical drives. that is evidence enough that the industry is not quite ready to ditch optical. But when it does, of course there will be some attractive advantages.

 

Okay got off the phone with HP with two very nice service ladies, very helpful and more importantly frank.
I was told basically there was absolutely no way to contact HP's repair department directly and they would contact me directly. Now I have a history of a little over 5 HP notebooks were their repair department were going to contact me, but they don't and they just ship the laptop back without fixing anything (only to get it in my hands and easily replicate the issue).

I had them take note that if I was not contacted and that laptop shipped back, I would not be a happy camper.

 

Crap, does that mean they're not gonna take my overheating issues seriously too?
It can't be the first time they've experienced this sort of issue. Envy 17 is pretty notorious for overheating. But I guess they just really have no way of fixing it short of replacing the whole motherboard. I mean, I've tried repasting, cleaning the ducts, reinstall, even underclocking. This is obviously a hardware defect. I don't know how a technician could have more up in his sleeves.
Maybe thats why they're trying to brush off our problem as a non-issue, to save on repair costs. Let's just hope it's not the case.

 

Well if they brush it off I have records of Intel's safe temperatures. If I have to I will open up the laptop and check the electronics that supply power near the CPU and see what kind of temperatures they can handle. I can assure you they are not meant to be around a 96c CPU. Afterwards they will have themselves a lawsuit for laptop costs+my time+my hassle.

 

can you post a reference to Intel's safe temps? that would be an awesome reference, against which we can check individual temps -- and to be precise, where is this temp measured --is this an aggregate case temp reported by the CPU or is it intended to correlate with internal junction temps?

Good to check on the PS components -- last design work I did in power supplies I would design for 100c junction temp. with any thermal resistance at all, it would be impossible to stay below 100c when the ambient is 96...

there's no question that cool = lasts longer, so this is important info; many thanks for contributing

 

Intels safe temperatures can be often found under their specifications. For the i7 720QM it is 100c, or only 4 degrees over what my peak temperature is (96c).
Personally if I played SC2 I wouldnt doubt if I hit 100c.

HP decided to ship my notebook without contacting me. Likelyhood they did nothing. I will explore my legal options.

 

yes I see a junction temp spec of 100c which is quite standard, but junction temps are always higher than case temps! So we need find out what temps are actually being reported by -- what temp is the CPU actually reporting in your case, i.e 96c? if it is CPU case temp then your laptop is in serious trouble because if the case is at 96c I can gaurentee your junction temps are greater than 100c. we need to find out what temp is actually reported and how it is measured.

 

The CPU is at 96c measured by the temperature diode found on CPU's and read by Hwinfo32. I will be receiving the laptop back, I will open it up and record a temperature straight off the heatsink (likely be near the 96c).

 

ok. more work needed to more fully understand this -- if Intel puts a temp sensing diode on the die (near each core, probably), then this is die temp, not junction temp. the two might be close, and I would accept that as a reasonable corrleation -- but in any case we can say with certainty that die temp is never hotter than junction temp -- so in that respect the peak temps reported by hwinfo32 should NEVER exceed the maximum junction temp specified by intel -- otherwise the core is operating outside its specified limits.

btw, If you meausre the same temp on your heatsink as reported by hwinfo32, something is wrong. the heat sink should be several degrees cooler than the die temp.

 

that would depend on the material of the heatsink. If it's not copper chances are it will be very close to the temperature on the CPU. If it's copper it should definitely be lower.

 

sure some materials are better than other, but regardless of the heat sink material -- under normal operation it's surface temperature will certainly be measurably lower than the internal die temp; otherwise there is no energy transfer away from the CPU and the thermal designer has failed miserably.

 

Well got the laptop back yesterday. Definitely the same issue. 70c~ idle over 90c+ under load. I have decided not to open it as I may be discussing with HP what to do, so I'd rather not void any warranty. Atm their chat is not working.
Edit: Well I finally got to inspect the laptop close up, been so busy that I haven't had even a moment to make sure the laptop was in tip top shape. Turns out it isn't. There is a nick in the aluminum trim, and a scratch on the LCD. When I sent in the notebook it was in new condition shape, no flaws nothing wrong with it apart from bad assembly from the factory (gap between palm rest and aluminum trim on the left side).


Everyone please post your temperatures!!

 

True however heatsink/fan assemblies have a peak TDP dissipation, once this limit is reached the heatsink will more then likely be at near the same temperature as the CPU as heat builds up and the heatsink cannot keep up. It will also mean temperatures will continue to rise (what I have seen with this HP Envy is that temperatures always rise as time goes by- for example: just Prime95 with no GPU testing produced temperatures of 91c within 3 minutes. Adding GPU testing, since I think 2 heatpipes are shared would likely add another 5c-10c more in temperature for the CPU due to the bottleneck of the thermal dissipation for the GPU CPU and I am willing to bet even the motherboard's northbridge.
There is a reason a lot of manufacturers decide to go with a two heatsink route when it comes to high end processors and gpu's, and it isn't to be purposefully bulky (although my M6500 had the same thickness yet had 3 heatpipes for the cpu+heatsink+fan, and 4 heatpipes+it's own heatsink+fan for the GPU- I was never able to get it past 77c~ none the less).

 

definately -- and in this case the thermal capabilities of the system have been exceeded and the designer has failed for example, if airflow stops or is insufficient. So getting back to (one of) the original questions - if you measure heat sink surface temp that is equal to processor core temp reported by the likes of hwinfo, then the thermal system is in serious big heaps of trouble!

 

Yes I would agree. I have had no choice but to get a HP Case manager, which is sad since I heard and have experience nothing but delays with them.

Basically HP's own service team have no power, and can only log ticket #'s and will only setup repair orders. Past that, there is not much they can do.
On the contrary
Dell's service team have the power to set up repair orders, order replacements (new systems), offer refunds, just about everything imaginable in a reasonable sense. Not to mention they are true USA support, with caring representatives, while talking to HP apparently it varies from foreign based support (Who's systems go out nearly every day) and American support, I am unsure how this works.

 

So anyone else with temperatures?

Update: I got a hold of a case manager, nice person. Basically I told her I was looking for a replacement model, or a refund. After a while we decided I'd call back when I was ready to make a decision on a replacement model. I did a lot of research and found that the DV7 would not suffice for gaming not to mention have less resolution, non E2E glass, non backlit keyboard, and from what I am looking at non metal chassis?

Now we are going to discuss a refund. Hopefully the process is not painstakingly difficult.

 

I got 49C with just web browsing all day and 53-56C with gaming.

53C is like 130F or somthing...id freak if i got 70C O_O

 

Night Racer: the silicon junctions are spec'd at 100c, so short peaks into the 80s or 90s wouldn't bother me. But if any normal operating condition produced regular excursions near 100c then something is very wrong. 60c gaming is awesome! Thats an important benchmark because the discrete GPU contributes about 4 times more heat than does the processor. are you using a hw utility that gives you temps on the GPU? (I don't know if the GPU reports temps...)

Crimsoned nicely done -- yours is an "early" Envy 17 right? late models of the legacy Envy (not SB's) appear to run cooler, but if HP has no more of those to swap out for you, then absolutely get a refund and get one of the new SB Envys!

 

Will someone please post some temps from the Envy 17 3D SB model... please???

 

It's a possibility, not sure how to check which version it is.
Def not buying HP again, but I will see about an Envy 17 SB to see if they agree. The only good things HP they have are their Business class with their Dreamcolor panels. Other then the panel itself, they are vastly inferior in most aspects, including pricing.

 

you could use a hardware utility like hwinfo and look for things such as memory build date, bios dates, and such as that.

 

Couldnt get any build dates, bios date iirc before I updated the BIOS was from like 09/2010~

 

huh. for me, hwinfo is reporting a manufacturing date: "year 2008 week week 51' on my current laptop. thats for the memory.

Sep 2010 sounds pretty late in the product cycle I just wonder (if this really happend) when they made a change that suddenly made things run cooler

 

Well, I just ordered mine on 03/12, didn't receive it yet (either the shipping confirmation email). But I'm scared now, by yours and others' review on temperature of NV 17.

I thought they would fix yours by COOLSENSE TECHNOLOGY????

 

dlleno, could you plz explain why the late model run cooler?

Cuz I got mine the day before SB came out (for the coupon). By the way, I think I'm not gonna return it cuz it has ATI 5850, better than ATI 6850 ?!?

And do you think that they may put Coolsense technology on mine?

 

Well, I have a question for you dlleno. You are certainly knowledgeable about hardware! I found my way here (am new member at NotebookReview) researching the heat problem with Envy17s. I know all this stuff is old hat to hardware/laptop experts/engineers such as yourself, but for those of us who lack those credentials and are interested in perhaps purchasing one of these the situation is most unclear. I’ve spent many, many hours researching this issue here, at the HP site, and Amazon.com reviews. The following is my understanding of the issues. I would be very pleased if anyone could correct any misunderstandings I have…

A) The Envy17 is one of the neatest (I’d hesitate to say ‘coolest’) high end laptops available;

B) It has severe/chronic overheating problems, which seem to be exacerbated by gaming, which seems to be what a lot of folks use it for. However, there seems to have been many different ‘production runs’ of this model, and some folks claim no overheating problems.

I guess the bottom line is, “Is it safe to buy one of these?” Has HP addressed the issue? They certainly must be aware of it! I’m see-sawing back and forth between either this or a Dell Precision Mobile Workstation ( M6500 ). Either will likely cost me US $2500 or so spec’ed out the way I’d want it. Or maybe I ought to just drop back to a dv7 and save myself a cool thousand.

It could help a lot if someone such as yourself who has no doubt followed this issue since the inception of this model would summarize it for us newcomers, discuss the implications of this new ‘SandyBridge’ thing (when I got here I finally did a search on google to find out what that was), and otherwise shed some light on all this.

 

ok pls let me clarify here -- I am simply pointing to emperical evidence (that is, observations and anectotal evidence) that;

1. Some pre-SB Envy 17s appear to run just fine ,as reported here
2. The reports in (1) above appear (to me) to be more frequent in later model (pre-SB) Envy 17s, and I don't remember hearing about any of the original Envy 17s where heat was not an issue while gaming.
3. NBR member HP Nate has confirmed that no physical changes to the Envy 17 internals have been made, i.e. the maximum cooling capacity of the notebook, were introduced with Sandy Bridge

I do not know what has, if anything, changed in the laptop; I am simply pointing to the evidence and suggesting that there is no other coherent way to explain all three points above. They had to have made some physical change to the laptop in order for both late-model (pre-SB) and Early model SB Envy's to both run cooler than the original Envy 17 introduced in 2010. I'm just speculating that the weight of evidence suggests that it has a bigger radiator thats all. something has improved it's cooling capacity, whatever that is.

As for coolsense on your late-model (pre SB) Envy 17: no you do not have coolsense. if you did you would know because this is the addition of an new (branded) software application that manages fan profiles, and you would notice it. By itself, CoolSense has nothing to do with the "radiator" inside the laptop - it just controlls the fan.

As for the 5850 versus the 6850 I can't claim any independant expertise here, but I think if you research you will find them to be similar, i.e. no real significant game-changing differences, pardon the expression. But don't take my word on that.

 

While I wasn't called on for answering I think I can answer your post:
This is from my case manager:
The issue with the overheating is not acknowledged by HP, in fact they say there is no overheating even at 96c+. They claim that the whole laptop can operate at temperatures of 104c (inside the laptop of course).
So Dlleno's posts saying perhaps it was fixed, remains to be seen.

I really think the low temperatures that have been reported may be due to changes in environment for example a laptop running in a room that is 60f is going to be considerably cooler then a room that is at 75f.

Now I can actually help you even more since my last system was actually a Dell M6500 workstation.

Here's what you have on the M6500:
-Better backlit keyboard on the M6500
-Better touch bad (actual buttons with many gestures for 2 finger scrolling, 3 finger gestures, and even comes with a certain feature that lights up the mousepad for use in specialized programs like CS4 Photoshop/premiere etc.
-Xpresscard/PC Card
-Firewire
-Better battery life with the 93 whr battery.
-More rugged (I've dropped mine twice from 3 feet only damage came from the battery's rubber foot bending the metal on the battery a tiny by.)
-Runs insanely cooler temperatures, on my i7 740qm Nvidia 2800m M6500 I could not push temperatures past 78c~ (in a 24c~ room)

Dell Business support is a day and night difference between HP's "Concierge" support.
The person you immediately speak with Dell's Workstation Business support is the same person that can order system replacements, repairs, and more.

Not to mention Dell's M6500 standard warranty is 3 years Next Business Day On Site Tech vs Envy being 1 year Overnight Depot service, and Dell's STANDARD ONSITE TECHNICIAN usually dispatches the very next day (sometimes 2 days depending if you call after 5:00 PM~ Central).

Do yourself a favor if you want a true solid laptop, get the Dell M6500. If Dell would warrant me the Envy 17 with the same support as the M6500, I would have absolutely no qualms about paying them $600 for said warranty.

I regret ever purchasing this Envy 17, while I am getting used to it and replacement (sandy bridge envy 17) I was not very happy with the quality of support nor Quality control.

Dell is definitely the best choice between the Envy 17 and Dell m6500.

@ HD 5850 vs 6850

The clocks on the Envy 17 HD 5850 are as follows:
Core: 500 mhz
Memory: 900 mhz

The clocks on the Envy 17 HD 6850 are as follows:
Core: 575
Memory: 900~

From those clocks the 6850 should be quite a bit faster, perhaps 15%~ faster~.

 

no doubt this is subject to opinion but yes. I don't think anyone has stuffed more horsepower into such a small package, than HP. and the package is an example of awseomness, in my view

yes, yes, and maybe. the GPU is located near the left palm rest and this area gets real excersized during gaming. The discrete GPU is a 150w maximum device. Ever touch a 150 watt lightbulb? ok its not quite that bad... However, as I described to NBR member JudenN it appears that we have evidence to suggest that one (and possibly only one) physical change has been introduced into the late-model Envy 17s. These appear to run cooler.

. Well -- I can't comment on the Dell, but I suppose one should consider that the DV7 has a weaker GPU (compared to the Envy) and thus, if you use an envy 17 but only work it has hard as you would a DV7, it will probably run just as cool as a DV7! . But - the bottom line is if you need the capabilities of the Envy 17, and you find one at an attractive price then you may come out ahead -- the (pre SB) Envy 17s are not being made anymore but if there is excess inventory out there I'm guessing there are some good deals to be made. and yes I would expect these to be the later models where the heat problem has been addressed (to what extent I do not know!) but if you buy one of these you should prepare to test its heat performance. My advise here is this: if the price/performance is that attractive, compared to a new SB Envy, then buy it and make sure you test it out thoroughly re: heat issues so that you can send it back to HP within the first 21 days if it makes you nervous.

The Envy 17s have just been refreshed with Intel's latest processors, code named Sandy Bridge. this is a new 32nm process that is more energy efficient and faster, on the order of 20% or so. Depending on your needs, these new processors offer some significant advantages over the legacy processors, i.e. speed and efficiency. Frankly, unless there is a very attractive price advantage to the legacy models, I wouldn't consider enything else besides a Sandy Bridge Envy 17 right now.

The main advantages to the new SB models, as I see it:

HDMI 1.4
Support for 1600MHz RAM (if you choose the 2820 processor)
switchable graphics (great battery/heat saver for non-3D, non-DX11 content
greater processor power
Wireless Display technology from Intel (WiDi)
...maybe something else I have left out!

CoolSense is a minor advantage but still an advantage, in that it is essentially a fancy fan controller that is better able to anticipate and adjust fan speed profile depending on the orientation and movement of the laptop (i.e. sitting on a hard surface versus on your lap)

 

Thanks for your input Crimsoned. I really appreciate that. I think its best I forget this Envy17 as not being a laptop for me. I'm a programmer who isn't much into hardware (mostly languages, algorithms and such), and I'd mostly like a long term durable machine. I'm presently using an HP dv8000 I bought nearly five years ago and its still going very strong. Its nearly exactly the same size and weight as the M6500, and like it has a metal frame. Its been a wonderful laptop for me, and I just need something to replace it with. Its never ran anywhere near hot. I need to use laptops because of neck pain problems I have - I can stand and work at them, or set them on a high stand so I don't cause my neck to hurt when sitting. I was really 'taken' by the Envy17 looks and specs, but due to its heat problems I don't see anyone getting five years out of one. Again, thanks!

Fred