Envy 17 Temperature Logs- Post them.

wahoo another dv8000 user friddie1!! mine is still going strong too and i"m trying to make it last until the Envy's get a better clickpad!

Any by the way, the anectotal evidence has yet to be proven with statistical significance, yes. But there are no late model pre-SB Envy's or SB Envys reporting idle temps at room temperature environments that come close to those reported by early-gen Envys that were reporting 80c at idle and 100c gaming. so far what's come in is 45-50c idle and 60-80 gaming. but its true, and we should be very firm on this point -- we do not yet have any temps reported for heavy gaming. that should come soon!

Crimsoned: so HP told you officially that 104c is just fine? holy jumping jalapenos thats above the maximum operating specs published by intel. this deserves more attention do you have an official statement from HP on that, and how this temp is to be meaured?

 

You are quite welcome.

 

Thanks for your input dlleno! I'll keep the Envy still in the running then. My instincts tell me I shouldn't, but I just really like the looks of this laptop. What I can't help thinking all along is that this would work for me due to my somewhat unusual usage. I never game, or use the laptop for more than 80 -90 minutes before turning it off. Mostly when working I'm just looking at code with an occasional compile.

This statement of yours interested me...

Is that what this guy from an Amazon.com review is talking about toward the end...

If it is, how would you turn it on/off; something in Control Panel orwhat?

 

Which anectotal evidence are you referring to, I may be able to provide some proof.

Yes my Case manager herself told me official stance is 104c is a safe temperature for laptop components. At first I thought she meant the processor, but I had her confirm several times:
This about about how it went.
Me: I was checking the temperatures of the processor and it was hitting 96c at just 80% load, meaning had I played a heavier game it likely would of gone perhaps to 98c maybe even 100c.
Case Manager: Yes well it's designed to operate at temperatures of 104c.
Me: But Intel's safety throttling usually kicks in at around 100c~, this is a clear sign they are NOT safe temperatures. Regardless, Intel makes solid chips so fine the processor will more then likely survive said temperatures however surrounding components will not.
Case manager: No the whole laptop's components can operate at 104c. (give or take a few wordings difference).
Me: Well I am not sure what parts you guys are using but from my research unless you guys managed to stick 105c capacitors, extremely tough VRM's, superb phases, I don't see this being true (how they would fit them is beyond me). From what I have gathered as a computer technician, laptops seeing these kinds of temperatures almost always fail far more then those that do not, whether it's hard drives, or motherboards, or other parts. While I may have not formulated a precise scientific database, it is a very visible trend that I see as a technician.
I go on to confirm it 1 or 2 times more but she repeats it, their laptops are rated for 104c.

Also she told me HP's failure rate was 1%... My own statistics prove no manufacturer has a 1% failure for laptops.

 

Given the history of the Envy 17 heat issues I can't imagine a heat problem with your intended use. if you're not in a hurry I'd suggest waiting to see how measured temps come in from the likes of Killa Joe and others, who have experience with both the old and the new. Killa will spank it hard with some serious gaming.

Keep in mind that the discrete graphics card produces about four times the heat of the processor itself, and most of the cooling capacity of the laptop is aimed there. In the Envy it is my understanding that the discrete GPU and the on-CPU Graphics share the same cooling system and heat pipe/heat sink design. Clearly, the Envy is not a serious gaming maching, or it would be larger, to allow greater control over heat. my perception is that HP has crammed as much horsepower as possible into a very small and attractive package. It won't be long before we will get better information regarding the actual cooling peformance of the SB Envy. the worst I have heard here on the forums was the left palm rest getting warm and CPU temps in the 80s and 90s. We just have not heard (on the SB Envy) of the uncomfortably hot, egg-frying temps on the palm rest or CPU temps approaching 100c, but it is true that its too soon to tell for sure.

re: switchable grahics -- yes HP has implimented the ability to disable the discrete 6850 GPU and run on-chip graphics utilizing technology resident in the Sandy Bridge processor itslef and AMD drivers. I think you'll find some more specific answers as to how it works by visiting the SB Envy 2xxxx owners lounge.

Since gaming isn't important to me either, I'm not as concerned about the heat issue, as I just don't expect to ever hit the discrete GPU that hard. for programmers ( cam121 for example, in this form) who care alot about processor power, virtual machines, 1600 MHz memory and L3 cache, the Envy is attractive because it supports the 1600MHz memory speed, and the 2820 itself is very capable in that regard as well. So --- 2820 processor, SSD+7200 rpm hard drive all combine to make a very thin, attractive platform that will perform well except under the heaviest gaming situations.

I just wish Crimsoned could obtain a better outcome -- crimsoned you appear to have one of the early Envy 17s with a known heat problem and HP appears to be tyrying to dodge the bullet. its no wonder you are unsatisfied I would be too in that situation.

 

Crimsoned: wow -- 105c caps well I don't care if they are mil spec'd 120c caps they will still tend to dry out under high temps. But you won't get anywhere telling HP that parts will fail when they have said they will stand behind the laptop when operating at those temps. That said, I still think that no thermal designer with a straight face could look you in the eye and tell you they designed for 104c air temp inside the laptop when the CPUs themselves are rated at 100c.

in other words, I get and could accept 104 internal air temps for power supply parts and such. It might make me purchase additional warranty, but by itself you can't argue with what HP has said they support. You should have engaged them into a clear statement of the acceptable CPU temps reported by the hardware, and a clear qualification standard by which to measure success -- other than 104c internal air temp, which I have no idea how one is supposed to measure or validate. They gave you a number that cannot be measured.

But you should ask HP how the CPU is expected to live within Intel published absolute maximums, if the enviroment within which it operates is hotter than that. that makes no sense -- the surrounding air is supposed to heat up the processor to 104 when it is spec'd at 100? doesn't anyone understand the physics of heat anymore? That's what they are saying. Unfortunately, you already gave them the "out" by saying the CPUs will protect themselves. I'm not sure that it true - they may throttle themselves back, but even if they do, then the laptop is not giving you the service you bought it for. So HP is telling you that they designed for conditions that will give you inferior performance! Look: HP is saying they have designed the laptop such that the CPU is guarenteed to run hotter than its manufacturer specifies. I'm saying the temps reported by hwinfo or the like cannot possibly be cooler than the air surrounding the CPU. thats pure foolishness. and I'm saying if you put a CPU into 104c air, it will warm up to 104c even if it isn't doing any work, and that is beyond Intel's specs.

you're only measuring 96c on the CPU? then the air is cooler than that and HP is right. you haven't exceeded the Intel maximum rating and you haven't exceeded HPs stated rating. Of course, I fully agree with you that this represents an accelerated life condition that I would not be happy with, but Im afraid you've got no leg to stand on unless you can engage HP in a clearer statement of the measure of success. you haven't measured anything beyond HPs limits, unfortunately.

now then, if the palm rest gets too hot to touch, then you could start hammering at that angle. I'm just concerned that you engaged with the case manager using numbers that are on HPs side and that cannot be refuted. I'd stick to CPU temps and uncomfortable palm rest temps in imho

 

Okay first off every component inside the computer cannot live through 104c. Ram at most should never see above 60c.
Hard drives will die very fast if put on high temperatures and then cooled (fluxing temperatures=death very quickly).
Power supply systems' efficiencies vary greatly by temperature, actually there was a discussion of this in overclock.net with power supplies (Desktop) and if I recall correctly efficiency can drop by 50% on certain components by reaching the peak temperatures that components are rated for. This is enough to cause a surge of power or undersurge causing BSOD's, immediately shut downs, and at rare cases (perhaps protection failure) frying of components including: CPU's, and VRM's to the best of knowledge (Capacitors have no protection iirc so they'll blow whenever they blow).

Actually the statement by the lady was the whole laptop could handle temperatures of 104c NOT temperatures of the CPU of 104c. This is why I was puzzled as to how they tested this.
I told her flat out that while the CPU may live other components would not as seen with the Pavillion Nvidia issue were wireless card/ other components were also dying not just the chipset due to heat.

Sure the real issue was poor soldering but due in part to overheating the circuit board/ GPU were desoldered and other components died most prevalently on the DV6000 iirc the wireless card and speakers~.

Next up if air temperatures inside really did hit 104c, I can assure you that components would be much hotter then 104c that as everything produces heat inside the laptop minus perhaps the chassis itself.

Either way what you are referring to being 94c on the CPU but much lower on the rest of the laptop may be true but you are forgetting that laptops utilize more then one exhaust system.

Laptops also vent hot air out through the keyboard, and other openings like USB ports not just the exhaust vent. In otherwords while it may be 96c on the CPU and 90~ on the gpu, other components will be seeing higher temperatures. The HDD's alone hit 55c~ while gaming/in use. then quickly cool down to 40c. 10c~ degrees is enough to cause concerns, perhaps not be a high risk however this is just using the CPU at 80% and GPU who knows what, but definitely not 100%.

 

wow. wow. ok now we have a different story with this silly idea that the "whole notebook" can live at 104c. Short of that we could have many happy conversations about design and heat flow, which would be entertaining to be sure, but wouldn't matter. What matters is this 104c figure and what HP means by that.

Well the data on the 60c limit for RAM is incorrect; 85c operating spec is not uncommon, which should be easily obtainable if the designer has a lick of sense, even with a 100c CPU core.... At one time anyway, Kingston even performed full functionality burn in tests at 100c ambient temp. But that aside I quite agree with you. Really? the entire notebook is designed to run at a temperature guarenteed to result in the CPU core temperature exceeding its mfg absolute limits?

bingo now we're getting somewhere. this is exactly the same as saying, "if the CPU core temp is 100, then its case temp or surrounding air have to be less than that".

none of this matters because you won't be succesful arguing with HP over any particular design, and we all agree that hot is bad. Unfortunately, you've got to accept the 104 degree spec, as weird as it is, because thats what HP is saying the laptop is designed and supported to run at. But maybe you need to change your approach. consider:


1. getting a precise, written confirmation from HP as to what it means for the "whole notebook" to run at 104, and how is that measured. Also obtain written confirmation that HP will support the notebook against hardware failure when its internal temps are 104c.

2. insisting that the laptop you have runs or does not outside of measureable limits set by the mfg (for example, CPU core temps) when the laptop is used for its advertised purpose within the enviromental limits specified by the manual

 

My apologies you are right on the money with ram, I am afraid I was basing my 65c limit based on older PDF I had seen a few years ago.

Well I when I asked the lady if there was any product spread sheets for information regarding her claims she said there was none. (I had asked for the Envy's information spreadsheet that contained information on temperature limits).

Edit: Getting written confirmation on the specs, or even getting the specs sheet that really go into detail (provided they exist) would be paramount to giving arms to your enemy. They could easily be used for massive class action lawsuits if any part turns out to be false.

 

I just think you're taking the wrong approach - dont ask them to substantiate or prove anything. they don't have to and they won't. they're the ones that said 104c and since they said that, you can ask for further explanation as to what it means to your notebook and your problem. just show the implications of the information you were given, ,namely that the CPU is guarenteed to operate outside of the intel published limits and concentrate on pts 1 and 2 of my previous post. I think you're running into a dead end because your aiming at the wrong target. instead of challenging the validity of 104c, accept it and show the implications. instead of challenging the design of the notebook, show that it does or does not operate within the published limits.

 

Well this is true, however I think me and my case manager are past it and bringing it up may not do much other then anger my case manager. But you bring good points, although I did argue it through accepting the HP official temperature and argued at how it could be fatal for notebooks to operate near that temperature.

 

Edit: Sorry,

 

I should have waited and buy g74. This envy is just making my scared.

I bought it 2 months ago, it did not gave me any trouble beside heat on the left side of keyboad, but it started to over heat 2 days ago after maid cleaned the room and the dust obviously came inside or something. I blow the fans with compressed air.

SO I started to measure temps. They are 80 celcius on average

but when playing games the max was today 97 celcius and the computer did not shut down.

So 80 idle 97 when playing games.

Should i take it to repairs? I stay in Thailand, I dont even know if they have spare parts

 

So, when I got my entire Envy 17-1011nr purchase refunded after 11 months, the official stand I was given by an HP engineer was that the Envy notebooks were not designed to be used for gaming or crunching numbers. The notebooks were multimedia notebooks. In other words, watch movies, browse the web, edit documents.

Well, I have an Envy 17-2090nr now, which I picked up for $1556 unlike the $1650 I paid for my Envy 17-1011nr. The 2090nr does run cooler and I can live with the 20% throttle at full GPU and CPU load. My max temperatures were at most 88C on the CPU and 92C on the GPU running Furmark and Prime95 at the same time. Using ThrottleStop, my CPU max temps hit 92C.

 

If you might have missed, the f.15 bios update helps against throttling since you say you use throttle stop.

I also have the 2090 and it's so awesome, heat have never been an issue on this laptop for me. I play high end games and yea it does get hot of course, anything else would be weird but it doesn't get to a state where I burn or it feels bad or disturbing. I say this a lot but my HDX got hot to a state where I didn't wanna put my palm down, that was during gaming and that was annoying, and that's not half as powerful laptop compared to this one. I think it's just one awesome machine

 

Already have f.15 BIOS. It does not stop throttling. The CPU still downclocks. The BIOS fixes the issue where the CPU gets stuck in its LFM or 800 MHz speed.

 

my model is the 1011NR
i've been doing some non-stop blu-ray to mp4 encoding lately, my temps have been:

A - on a plain lapdesk board:
75C-80C (cores)
80C+ (gpu)

B - elevated about 1/8" on top of cable box:
70C-75C (cores)
70C-75C (gpu)

C- same as B + small fan pointed at left front of laptop
65C-70C (cores)
70C (gpu)

the above figures are with a load of about 25%-50%, have my power profile throttled to no more than 80% on the cpu.

wondering how well the Zalman NC3000U performs for this particular laptop ? i want to integrate the laptop more discretely into a visible home theater arrangement, so the laptop will be sitting on a glass shelf below my tv. this cooler allows for a/c power to power it, which is cool because i don't want to use the USB ports on my laptop to power it.

anyone have any experience with this cooler ? seems to be the best one to get ....

 

Is there throttling issues when the CPU gets to 97C ? Idling in the 80s and maxing into the high 90s when gaming is kind of odd to me. (that's only a 17C difference). I would expect it to go much higher.

My laptop idles in the low-mid 40s, but can get into the high 80s when gaming for hours (a 40C difference). I don't think my Qosmio has any throttling though. I haven't experienced any performance or system slowdowns while gaming.


Just curious

 

Did you set HP Coolsense to coolest mode? That may be why it throttles - set it to performance optimized.

 

Coolsense has nothing to do with the throttling. Coolsense basically changes the max and min power states for the CPU. It's the same as going into the power manager and changing the states in there.

What HP did with the Coolsense is that they used the hard drive motion sensors and used that to control "cooling" or lack of "cooling".

 

Yea I think thats right -- coolsense doesn't throttle directly, but does so indirectly via the power states. But -- I suspect the coolsense accelerometer is a different device, not the one provided by the HDD mfg for the purpose of detecting a fall to the flloor. Seems to me someone validated that in device manager, but the details escape me at the moment.

 

Disable Windows Presentation Foundation Font Cache 3.0.0.0 in Services should reduce the fan from spinning up on idle.

 

I am still vorried about this laptop, running right now at 86 C, i have it lying on my bed, covering bottom fan.

will it die soon, if the temps are so high?