HP **** and why you shouldn't be the next victim

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HP **** and why you are better off throwing their laptops off some 13-th floor

Hardware:

We bought a HP Pavilion DV2202TX with Vista Home Premium pre-installed back in June 2007 for about USD 1400. At that time, we thought that Windows Vista should be already fully supported by the laptop manufacturers, and HP laptops seemed to have nicer looks and audio. It turned out that too bad we were deceived like that as we quickly realized how unreliable their laptops are. Last October (2007), we noticed that our laptop started to shut down randomly. It just suddenly powered off in all kinds of situations, e.g. when the laptop was starting up (before even entering Windows), when it was playing music or movie, or just standing-by, without any warning. After a few times, we were convinced that it must be hardware failure. But anyway, we still tried to do a destructive recovery. Half-way during the first recovery, however, the laptop powered off again and we had to start over again. Thank goodness we were able to finish the second recovery. However, the problem was not solved, and it started to shut down more frequently than ever. Initially we suspected that the problems might come from memory or motherboard, as whenever more programs were opened, the laptop just crashed down. After googling for the symptoms that we had, and reading from many forums, we realized that the problems were caused by high CPU/motherboard temperature and overheating. We also read that many users experienced large fan noise and high temperature with their Windows Vista pre-installed HP laptops. To make sure, we installed a small utility called 'CoreTemp' to monitor the CPU temperature and we were shocked to find out that both CPU cores (it's Intel Core 2 Duo T7200) were constantly running at about 60 ~ 70 degree Celsius when the laptop was idle! That was a damn high temperature! And it quickly got hotter as more programs were opened. We witnessed the temperature increase from 60 degree all the way up to 100 degree Celsius, and the BIOS came to cut off the power! (opening Windows Live Messenger plus three or four IE windows with AVG antivirus running in the background can easily make it shut down). We are almost certain that the high temperature must be the reason for its numerous shutdowns, but we do not know what caused it. It is really ridiculous as it can reach 100 degree in like 5 ~ 10 minutes! Since it has shut down for so many (countless indeed) times, we expect that many parts of the hardware must have been somehow damaged. The lifetime of the laptop must be significant shortened after suffering the ultra high temperature and numerous sudden shut down.

But this laptop is still under warranty, right? Why didn't we send it back to HP? In fact, we did, and that brings us to the even more ridiculous part.


Customer Support:

We bought this laptop from HP Malaysia and we bought it for use in the U.S. one month later. So, before making the purchase, we asked and triple-confirmed that the laptop will be under global warranty, i.e. it can get repair and service in the U.S. even though we bought it in Malaysia. After gaining their confirmations only did we decide to buy it in Malaysia. However, to our dismal, the HP warranty is really crappy and you'll know why in a minute.

When we first had the shutdown issue in October, we sent it to Best Buy, which was the closest HP accredited service provider at Lincoln. They said they would send it to HP service center, but actually they sent it to Best Buy service center at Denver. We waited for about two weeks to get it back. BUT it was returned UNREPAIRED, with a statement saying the laptop had 'different language' and it couldn't be fixed! We didn't understand what they meant by 'different language', because we have only used English, and have never changed any default language setting! So we asked Best Buy at Lincoln again to send it. They said if we insisted that it was a hardware malfunction, they could do some diagnosis and send it for service again once they identified the problem. A few days later they called and told us that the motherboard seemed to have issues as the laptop shut down by itself, so they were sending it to Best Buy service center at Kentucky. We thought this time it would be fixed but once again it was returned UNREPAIRED with the following statement:

"Language Code is incorrect. Unit was not bought in the United States, therefore we can not work on this unit. Sending back unit to customer unrepaired."

This is ridiculous. If there is language code problem, Best Buy should contact HP manufacturer and tried to do something! Moreover, we believe there must exist some person in the U.S. who can understand the language. What's worse, after they sent the laptop back, they never followed up at all, but just left things back to our hands. We really couldn't believe such a big company could behave so irresponsibly. If HP (or Best Buy) couldn't fix it, how are we supposed to know what to do on it? Furthermore, when we bought this unit, the HP Malaysia had confirmed that it was under international warranty, or else we wouldn't have bought it in the first place. (Here is the link that explains HP laptops "global warranty": http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpr01266 )

Since Best Buy and HP were so irresponsible, we decided to call HP to complain about the issue. We were led to a technician who kept trying to suggest that it's software-related problems and we had a hard time to convince him that it was NOT. The technician just sounded like a total computer moron who only asked people to restore the laptop system using recovery discs. Unable to solve problems by phone, we wrote emails to the customer support. After several correspondence, they replied that a Case Manager was assigned to take care of our issues. When the Case Manager approached us, however, we were told that HP only offered one option -- which was to ship the laptop back to Malaysia for repair. She mentioned that the shipment fee would be paid in full by HP. We suggested that since October, we had not been using this expensive piece of crap (which we paid about RM 5000, or USD $1400 for) for 4 months already and wouldn't want to wait any longer. But the case manager, who goes by the name "Kandace Kamber", just said HP only offered this one and only option and nothing else. We gave up trying to argue with her, and checked the prices for laptop shipment to Malaysia. The price range was rather expensive, about USD 200+. Thus we called to confirm that the amount would be reimbursed, but this time Kandace Kamber said, HP can only covered part of the fee by giving us accessories of equal amount. We asked how could we use the accessories if the laptop was not working? But she ignored the question and stated that this was all HP can do. Just as we were prepared to send it today, we called this Kandace Kamber again. You know what, this time she replied with a big "NO", saying HP will not be responsible for anything at all. We were angry and asked why they changed their mind, and she responded that they just changed the policy. She also asked us to direct all our questions to HP Malaysia as apparently there is no connection between HP U.S. and HP Malaysia. We were speechless.

We have been contacting HP on and off for 4 months by now and they just declined to give us any help. We are extremely frustrated with HP right now and probably we should just drop the laptop off some 13-th (or higher) floor, and get other laptop. But we aren't rich and $1400 is a rather big amount to us... after all, we might resort to sending it back to Malaysia using our own money. This is not written to ask for any sympathy and this is not about generating hatred or anything. You can disagree with us if you happened to be their fans. We are doing the least thing we can do to protect our rights and to share our experiences/lessons with potential victims. If you doubt that there is any truth in this long passage, don't hesitate to contact us @ [email protected] (yes, the account is set up for this purpose!), and we'll have the documents, the warranty sheet, emails, etc ready to show you. Actually, we are not alone in facing HP scams: a lot of similar cases have been reported -- whether or not the laptops were bought in the U.S.. HP customer support is certainly the worst one I've ever seen. Questions and comments are welcome, but nothing personal please.

Thanks for reading.

 

*scratches head*

 

Did you not update the BIOS? There is a BIOS update that fixed the overheating issue by making the fan run more often. You could have saved yourself a bunch time, effort, and frustration if you had simply updated the BIOS.

 

It's not that confusing. HP's service sucks. Just like every other large company.

 

I can't figure out which word the 4 asterisks are.

 

The only one that makes sense starts with an R and ends with a monkey.

 

Oh, yeah. I forgot that word was censored.

 

So, instead of a normal fan that allows the system to overheat in 5 minutes, you'll get a fan at max that allows the system to overheat after an hour.

 

HP should have just done it for us when we sent the laptop to the service center. Actually we didn't realize it was overheating until it was sent back unrepaired for the second time. At that time, we were forced to do our own research about the problem... I really have no idea why HP are being so mean and irresponsible!! And updating the BIOS only increases the fan speed? then I would say the HP laptop was made poorly because it isn't supposed to produce excessive heat in the first place! ... or is it?

Anyway I might give it a try given my helpless situation now. Thanks for the info

he was right.

 

ID say its probably more of Best buy's fault for most of it, but im suprised. Even though its different, a friend of mine has the dv9500. As it iss a simmilar line of laptops, it works great! Cool. quiet, Though a problem might be fans as mentioned, the fans dont run most of the time, and its still very cool. Maybe because its from malaysia? or just a reject? not sure, but ive always had good experiences with HP support, exept that you can barely understand them, but same a Dell and everyone. Anyway, that sucks.

 

Best Buy falls into "every other large company". I worked for BB support, and have seen it all.

 

Yeah, the shutdowns are DEFINITELY because of the temperature.
Is the fan working? If it is, is it blocked? My old laptop overheated very frequently before I realized that dust was completely blocking the air vent and cutting off circulation.
Sorry about HP's crappy warranty... it's ridiculous how they're unwilling to so much as touch their own product.

 

Did you file this with the BBB yet?

http://welcome.bbb.org/

 

This is a common problem with the older HP Pavilions...nothing you can do about it. Obviously, HP is trying to weasel out of fixing your laptop by using the language code technicality. See if the BBB can help, as tinman2007 suggested.

 

I think HP don't have their own service centers. They'll ask their customers to send the laptops to Best Buy or other accredited business partners. Now that you've mentioned it, I should add one more thing: when we first sent the laptop to Best Buy, the Geek Squad said we should let them diagnose before sending it to HP, because if later they discovered that it's a software issue rather than handware problem, we would be charged the shipping fee. And the diagnosis fee was, if I remembered it correctly, $50...

Really, I think the HP warranty is just crappy and I don't know why HP say they have the best customer support -- it definitely is the worst I've ever seen!!! And I don't think Best Buy will go out of their way to help you fix the laptops, since those are not their products...

 

Not yet... just go to "File a complaint"? (sorry I'm familiar with what BBB is)

Actually we are kind of tired with the long process now (it's been almost 4 months - October to December: the laptop was being shipped to and fro, to and fro; then January: we were talking to/emailing the HP support; and now the case manager just said they won't do anything). During the process, we have been very polite in contacting HP and Best Buy in all instances, because we believe abusive language won't do us any good. FYI, we are currently students, having a rather busy semester, and needing access to the computer frequently... We have been using the public computers, borrowing laptops from friends and from the university, while coping with all other stresses... Sometimes we really feel like just give up and fool ourselves that we'd lost that laptop... *sigh*

 

No. You are not qualified to make that statement. HP service is far from the worst.

 

If you're really that dependent on your laptop and don't know how to fix these types of issues on your own, you might want to look at business class laptops for the future (though they may be pricey for a college student). The IBM Thinkpads in particular are known to have excellent build quality. If it weren't for the lack of a 17" Thinkpad, I would have never bought an HP laptop.

 

thats weird I have a HP and whenever I had a problem I called they sent FedEx truck to pick it up the next day (lets say Tuesday) then I think it went to Tennessee overnight and I got it back Thursday all fixed they even fixed things I did not ask them too

 

Thanks for the advice. I don't know what I'll do right now. I will first pay the $200+ to ship the laptop back and see what HP Malaysia has to say about it. If they were going to ship it back unrepaired again, I will just smash the laptop!

I know it's hard to believe a company like HP would act like this. I was equally shocked at first because I figured HP should easily know how to fix the problem. But everything I just said is true. I wouldn't have wasted my time doing this if I'm not extremely frustrated!! I feel totally jealous of how HP treated you, and I really wished I were you...

 

That statement is not correct. HP AMD/Broadcom based machines bought in Nov/Dec-07 are still failing and I would not called those laptops old. Only the very latest DV2000 (early to mid Feb-08) as reported by Jong81 appeared to have the heat issues fixed. HP did release a critical BIOS in mid Dec-07 to make the AMD/Broadcom based machines spin constantly as an insurance policy. That does create more noise and kill your battery life.

Everyone can read the whole sorry saga here:

http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/...readId=1136440
(Note this thread has over 600 posts and take a long time to load !!)

and here:

http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/...readId=1179013

 

Didn't know the newer AMD machines had problems...I prefer Intel processors (at least right now), so I never researched the AMD Pavilion models.

 

If the laptop is overheating, update the BIOS, and blow out the vents on a monthly basis, and always use the laptop on a hard surface like a table.

Also maybe get a few coasters and prop the laptop up at the back, i did that when i had my HP Pavilion ZD8000 laptop, it increases air circulation.

There are also laptop fan pads you can get that also cools them down.

 

If you have global warranty you can get your HP notebook fixed at the closest HP service center so there's no need to transport your notebook to Malaysia. If you don't have global warranty you have to ship it to Malaysia to get it fixed. Contact your closest HP support and first establish if your notebook has global warranty and if it has global warranty then insist they fix it in US. Also quote HP's own global warranty statement to the support tech, see quote below:

Most HP products sold on or after 2nd August 1999 are provided with Global Warranty cover. HP can provide warranty service on your product in any country where we have a service presence (either provided by HP directly, or via HP accredited Service Providers) - currently this amounts to approximately 150 countries worldwide.

Warranty provided will be delivered according to the HP warranty offering in the country of use.

Please refer to the Global Warranty pages for further information.
Notes:

* When moving products to countries outside of North America, European Union (EU) or EFTA, the Global Warranty Notification Process should be used to ensure warranty cover is provided.
* Products excluded from Global Warranty cover are all HP Presario products, and all HP Prosignia products.
* HP Armada portables are covered by the Global warranty, even if purchased before 2nd August 1999.
* In some countries, warranty service delivery on some types of products may only be possible subject to an additional charge.

If your product is excluded from Global Warranty coverage, you can either:

* Return the product to the country of purchase for warranty repair, or
* Contact HP Service Store or a HP Service Provider to arrange a chargeable repair.

Personally i don't understand why they give you this treatment, HP US must have some sort of system failure right now.

 

i am from malaysia and this is scaring me from getting the dv2700t..and dont even try to call hp malaysia, their service is far from horrible. i just tried calling them up to at least get a picture of how good their support is..i wanted to ask about getting a global warranty extension as well as the accidental damages protection plan, or whatever its called...no one answers my calls and even if i get thru, they are so blur and do not know what to answer + they are rude...emailing them and leaving voice messages proved to be useless..i would call up hp's HQ and talk to someone of a higher rank if possible, if not pay them a visit if its possible.

 

I have a ze2000 from Nov. 05 and when I lived in univ. apartment, it was my only computer and was left on 24/7.

Every month, I cleaned out the fan, since it was left on 24/7 in "home/desktop" setting and 27 months later, it's still running, but who knows how long it will last :\

 

If you don't want to be a victim but would like to try HP out.

Please read this.

Do not let them talk you into an exchange or sending the machine in for repair. If you have too. Refer them to this link.


http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/return_exchange.do


Good Luck

 

Now that you've mentioned it, I would like to add that the battery of the laptop drains very fast. Without the power cable, it lasts less than one hour running Windows Vista (idle).

We have read something similar at
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpr01266

We talked to the case manager regarding the global warranty thing. She said no, because they didn't have the parts. We suggested that they can check the laptop to identify the problems, then ask HP Malaysia to send the necessary replacement parts. And she again said no, because they didn't have any contact with HP Malaysia. And we were just surprised at how blatantly honest she was. But at that time, she agreed to reimburse the shipping fee. However, she just changed her mind in the next week (which was last friday, Feb 15) to refuse to reimburse any shipping fee... We were so pissed off, so we decided to let everyone around know about this.

 

One of our purposes is to inform a potential buyer like you to think twice before buying. You will be much better off getting other laptops, in our opinion. We can't make any recommendation to you because we are afraid to get another laptop vendors as irresponsible as HP. If you still think HP laptops worth it, no one is stopping you. Just keep in mind that we had experienced very poor customer service from HP, and we hope you won't be the next victim.

 

I googled dv2202tx and it seems to be sold on every continent so not having parts sounds like bogus to me. It seems like HP is backing on it's global warranty. There must be a consumer organization available in US that can offer help, maybe some of the US members can point in the right direction.

 

If you want to help other people as much as you say.
May I suggest you file a report with the The Better Business Bureau.
http://welcome.bbb.org/

Since most of what you want to report is already typed out.
All You have to do is cut and paste.
Maybe 5 minutes.

Thankyou

 

As I said earlier, if you're willing to spend the money, get a Thinkpad. They are business class and the build quality is unmatchable.

 

I just found a person who had similar experiences with HP:

http://www.hpbadcustomerservice.com/

I hope HP potential victims are aware of this

 

http://www.ihatedell.net/
http://chris.pirillo.com/2002/01/14/why-hp-sucks-so-much/
http://sethoscope.net/laptop/sony-sucks.html
http://www.toshibasucks.org/
http://gatewaysucks.org/

Am I missing anyone?

 

srunni,

yes i am indeed looking hard at the thinkpads..i think they're nice, but its a little too expensive for me at the moment, so we'll see how things goes, but i guess i would have to settle with a hp..