HP DV5t LCD - Poor Viewing Angle

I'm an advanced photographer shooting digital and just picked up a HP DV5-1150 laptop with an WXGA BrightView Display and GMA 4500MHD. It's running CS3/4 and Lightroom under Vista 64 w/4GB of memory. I'm satisfied with it from a performance perspective so I won't go into all the configuration details, however the viewing angle on the properly calibrated LCD is just too narrow to be seriously usable for image viewing.

I understand the limitations of the TN panels being built into most laptops now and use Lacie LCDs with S-IPS panels with my desktop machines for final editing and post-processing workflow. I only purchased this HP DV5t to do tethered shooting and some preliminary image evaluation in the field.

Even though I don't expect to do serious editing on the laptop, it would be really nice to be able to view an image without having to be perfectly positioned within the LCD's "sweet spot", which on this screen is so narrow that it is virtually unusable without constant adjustment.

I was wondering if anyone has used the new HP HDX16 since they claim it has a considerably wider horizontal and vertical viewing angles. I'd like to stay with the HP line if possible but am not married to the brand. I do prefer PC over Mac (and don't want to stir up any controversy on this subject) but would really appreciate any suggestions here.

I'm an old hand with digital technology and building high-power workstations, but haven't needed or purchased a laptop in quite a few years and didn't realize just how much skimping has been done on the LCDs to keep the unit prices down.

I prefer to stay in the range of $1,500 or less and the HDX16 looks good but would like to learn more about the LCD panel type and viewing angles. I can't find out much from HP about what is different between the DV5t and HDX panels, so it would be great to hear from any digital photographers or imaging people who have already been down this path...

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!

 

I'm curious what kind of glass you have on your DV5. In the device manager under monitor/double click generic PnP Monitor/details/down arrow hardware IDS. ON my HP dv6500t mine shows LPLD which is a LG LCD wxga. And I really can't complain its very nice, with good brightness and very little graininess and good viewing angles. Personally, I feel that overall HP has nice screens overall. But that is not to say there may not be bad ones out there. Dell on the other hand uses many choices for LCD's and some people will really love them and others get crappy ones. Before my HP I had purchased a Dell 1420 which had a cracked lid and very poor viewing angles which was a 14" wxga+ sec screen (samsung) They replaced it with another system and that one had a AUO screen that was grainy/sparkly.. basically very poor looking screen. But for some reason the 14" screens do poorly on the viewing angles most of the time... or at least they did. But on a whole, laptop screens are crap compared with nice desktop ones. But screens can and do vary from machine to machine since they don't always use the same panel. I would personally check which screen you have.. maybe go to best buy and look at some dv5 screens in comparison. Also you might consider going up in resolution from the wxga. But generally speaking, HP usually gets pretty high marks for screens. You hear less problems about it here. Dells on the other hand had huge issues with screen quality control and would can vary greatly.

For starters, post what panel you currently have and maybe some other users can comment on panel quality. It may be you just got unlucky with the panel they used.

 

As an alternative you could look into Sony FW Hi Color (double lamp) screen and AW series with RGB LED screen. Both are higher quality screens than the HP DV5 screen.

 

Thanks for the quick replies!

The spec on my panel is "AUO2774", and I'm sorry I didn't mention that it is a standard 1280X800 Brightview w/o the Infinity option. I also wondered whether the higher resolution 1680X1050 screen might improve the viewing angles and if/when I return this machine I would definitely go for WSXGA+

My son is using an older HP zv5000z series we picked up a few years ago and it has a very nice screen on it. Much broader viewing angles, is very easy to maintain calibration in a color managed workflow - and it also has a matte finish which is one of the reasons he won't part with it to upgrade.

Given our experience with that machine, that's one of the reasons I was so surprised to see how poorly this DV5t screen responded - just moving my head slightly (a few degrees) will make the shadows start to block up, and vertical movement will quickly induce color inversion. Things work great if you're sitting motionless but that is literally a pain in the neck - aside from that, I really like the machine

I did make a stop at Best Buy on Thursday and managed to connect with a sales rep who was also a photographer. We looked at a couple of screens there that didn't differ significantly from mine, and he said the issue wasn't uncommon - maybe just trying to make me feel better. The HP Rep is going to be in their store this afternoon, and he is going to set up a phone call for me so that I can get some actual detailed info on the HDX panels to see why they claim 55 percent improvement in viewing angles (at least on the horizontal axis).

PhilFlow, I've been looking at the specs on the Sony AW and FW series having heard other people praising the screens. Do you know if they are also TN or what type of panel they use? I had been using a 10" MSI netbook that was LED backlit, and even though it was a TN screen, it was so uniformly bright the colors and shadow detail remained consistent over a much wider viewing angle - it was quite nice, just too small for my purposes.

I'd like to stay with HP and that's why I was trying to see if anyone had some hand's on time with digital photo workflow on the HDX16 - it's very similar to this DV5t with some significant enhancements, and I'd invest the extra money if the screen was usable and had wider viewing angles without having the image fall apart as soon as you move out of the very narrow "zone".

Either way, it sounds like from what you're saying that this one should go back. If I do order a custom HDX16 from HP directly, do you know if they're good about honoring their 21 day satisfaction guarantee? I don't expect any laptop to compare with my desktop Lacie S-IPS panels, but this really isn't usable for any kind of rudimentary digital image post-processing...

Thanks again for the suggestions and guidance!

 

I believe they are TN panels. But there are very large differences among TN panels.

To give you an idea, here are some measurements done by Notebookjournal.de:

Sony AW11Z/B 1920*1080 (double lamp CCFL, not the RGB LED)
average brightness cd/m² 212,00
blacklevel bei 100 cd/m2 cd/m² 0,15
contrast bei 100 cd/m2 :1 666,00

HP DV5 1280*800 (LGPhillips LP154WX4-TLAA)
average brightness cd/m² 124,00
blacklevel bei 100 cd/m2 cd/m² 0,64
contrast bei 100 cd/m2 :1 156,00

Both TN panels but, as you can see, huge differences.

Unfortunately there are only 2 websites that really measure screens with professional equipment: Notebookcheck.net and Notebookjournal.de

And yes those 10" netbooks usually have good screens. My Samsung NC10 has a screen with similar qualities. There's a very big chance it's the same screen by the way.

 

If I were you, I would cancel your current order for return/refund and then just create a new order for the HDX. That way your covered. Don't trust anything any sales/support rep may tell you otherwise. That's interesting that the current HP's suffer from poor viewing angles. I can say that is not the case with my dv6500 with the LG screen. Also, wxga will stand for 1280 X 800 so you did provide that info. But as for AUO they make some good and allot of crappy screens IMO. This would be bad news for me to learn that HP is dropping the ball on LCD Quality on their pavilion line. I also agree its too bad that matte screens are not offered on many laptops anymore. I'm also wondering if HP still uses LG panels on their Pavilions anymore? They make some pretty nice screens IMO.

 

I agree with what you say about the differences in TN panels - I think if this DV5t had the screen qualities of the MSI or NC10 I wouldn't be complaining. I'm not sure whether it's the particular screen and LCD backlighting they use, but the image on that 10" display holds together pretty well when viewed from much wider angles.

Notebookcheck.net didn't have an internal review of the HDX16t. They rated the display pretty highly, but I think they were averaging external reviews. Also wondering if you have any feedback on the Dell Studio 15 and 17 displays - they both have high res LED backlit panels and come in at a better price-point than the Sony AW series. The Sony looks good but gets pretty expensive...

I'm going to give HP Direct a call tomorrow and see if anyone there can tell me what kind of panel/backlighting they use in the HDX16t that might convince me of their claims to having such an exceptional display.

Thanks for your support!
Richard

 

I took your advice on canceling my order - but I canceled the HDX order as well until I can get some confirmation on the screen quality. I tried to connect with the HP Rep at Best Buy today but he folded under the weight of the Xmas shopping crowds and left before I could get to him

I talked to one of their techs in the computer service department and he said my complaint on viewing angles was common. Since the DV5t is so popular, I think it's probably a combination of different requirements (digital imaging being much more demanding than general use) and the fact that they are using different panels in different production runs and the various DV5t configurations, so not everyone has the same issues.

Was hoping to pick something up a new machine before Xmas, but at this point I think I'll wait until after the Holidays when the crowds thin out and I can get some time with some other models and brands, especially the LED backlit displays.

Any other suggestions are appreciated - perhaps I should post over in the HDX16 lounge and see if there are any photographers over there, too.

Thanks for your help!
Richard

 

Notebookjournal.de did review the HDX 16t. They gave the screen 2,5 out of 5 stars, which is pretty good because they are really critical. The brightness is average but the contrast and blacklevels are really good.

durchschnittl. Luminanz cd/m² 169,00
Schwarzwert bei 100 cd/m2 cd/m² 0,21
Schwarzwert bei maximaler Helligkeit cd/m² 0,36
Kontrast bei 100 cd/m2 :1 476,00
Kontrast bei maximaler Helligkeit :1 470,00

The Studio 15 Montevina (1440 x 900) received one of the highest ratings ever for the display: 4.5 stars.
durchschnittl. Luminanz cd/m² 287,00
Schwarzwert bei 100 cd/m2 cd/m² 0,14
Schwarzwert bei maximaler Helligkeit cd/m² 0,39
Kontrast bei 100 cd/m2 :1 714,28
Kontrast bei maximaler Helligkeit :1 735,89
http://www.notebookjournal.de/tests/inspection/test_dell_studio_15_montevina-737

This is what they said about the viewing angles "Vertikal invertieren die Farben bei 80° wenig. Horizontal macht sich ein Invertieren erst bei 45 Gradiger Blickwinkelabweichung bemerkbar."
(Vertically at 80 degrees little color invertion. Horizontally color invertion starting at 45 degrees.)

It doesn't get much better than that display. But... there's one problem. With Dell you're never sure which display you're going to get. The one reviewed might be a Toshiba panel for example but you may get a washed out panel of some other brand. Hence the phrase 'the Dell panel lottery'. Same thing can be said for several other brands though.

Dell does offer a return policy so you could always try it out.

 

Yeah I played that loto and lost The other thing that Dells do poorly at are with the generic speakers they use. I mean laptops generally don't have the greatest speakers but dells are definitely below average IMO. Build quality is not that great in my experience as well. I mean there is a reason that HP is overtaking Dell again.

 

Thanks for sending that info on the HDX16t and the Studio 15. I'm curious if they provided the same vertical and horizontal viewing angle specifications for the HDX16t as they did for the Studio 15? (Unfortunately, I'm "language challenged" and couldn't translate the information on Notebookjournal.de).

In terms of the HDX16t, given my past HP experience and the fact that the build quality appears to be same or better than the DV5t (which is quite good), if the HDX16t had a decent screen with acceptable viewing angles it would be my first choice.

I had another photographer recommend the Dell Studio 17 (which also has the LED backlit screen) but the price gets pretty steep for me. The Studio 15 is about $500 less completely loaded, and the review information from Notebookjournal.de sounds very impressive if I'm fortunate enough to get a system with the same panel that they tested.

The only other concern I have about the Studio 15 is the T5800 processor and lack of video card options - I realize it's not a poor performer, but my preference is the "P" series (like the P8400) for the faster FSB and larger cache. Bottom line though - if you can't see the image accurately on the screen it doesn't really matter how quickly it gets there

Thanks again for your ongoing assistance!
Richard

 

Just curious which Dell you had a panel problem with? Was it a Studio series? I know they really had a lot of panel variations in their larger desktop displays. Some people were getting nice S-IPS panels and others getting leaky MVA/PVA panels.

I've also heard about their laptop sound system issues, which is why the recommendation I got was for the Studio 17 that has sound system options. However, they're fairly pricey even without them and I'm not sure how much use I'd get out of them for my applications.

Also curious if you were able to return the Dell you didn't like without any hassles with them? I don't mind "playing the lotto" as long as I can get a refund on my ticket

Thanks!
Richard

 

I understand German at a reasonable level, no expert though. So I'll give it a go.

"Das Arbeiten unter der Full HD 1080p Auflösung erfreut die Tester. Dank hoher Kontraste und knackiger Farben bleiben auch kleine Symbole und Schriften gut lesbar. "
(Working under Full HD 1080p resolution made the the reviewer really happy. Thanks to high contrast and crispy colors small letters and symbols are well readable.)

Die Blickwinkelstabilität hätte nicht viel besser abschneiden können. Erste Kontrastschwächen sind erst ab einer horizontalen Abweichung von 70° - 75° sichtbar. Das glänzende Display spiegelt leider bei hellen Hintergründen im Büro sehr stark.
(The viewing angles couldn't be much better. Only at 70-75 horizontal angle the contrast becomes weaker. Unfortunately the display has strong reflections with bright objects in the background.)

I'm quite impressed, that's really good. They don't seem to say anything about vertically though. I think you need to check it out in real life.

And I already said but Sony FW with high color screen is good too, with above average viewing angles. Sonystyle prices are usually high, but better deals can be found at other online stores.

Then why don't you get the P8400?
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/...top_studio/1537_DNDWRA1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

If the price is too high you can try to find coupons, as you may know. This forum has a lot too.

 

If you're really indecisive try ordering an HP dv5t with the WSXGA+ 1680x1050 resolution. I chose the one with an infinity display, which is great, but I think the one without an infinity display would be much better with photo editing...

Here is the ID of my monitor: LP154WE2-TLA7

See if you can find anything on this...I think it's an LG monitor...

You could always return it within 21 days...plus the higher rez would benefit you as you can see more...

 

Thanks for the help with the translation - much appreciated. I also heard from another photographer who had a chance to do a side-by-side comparison with the various HPs, the Sony FW, etc. His impression was that the HDX16 had the best viewing angles and color fidelity - far better than the DV5 that I'm using now.

I also like the fact that it has a healthy GeForce 9600 video card w/512MB, and that it will take 8GB of RAM. That should keep Photoshop and Lightroom happy, and since I like the HP build quality I decided to take a chance and placed an order today with a vendor where I have a good return policy w/o a restocking fee - just in case.

I didn't see this option for the Studio 15 until I did some poking around on the site, so thanks for pointing that out. If the HDX16 doesn't work out as expected, I'll give the Studio 15 a go and hope I win on the display lotto

The HDX16 will take a little time to configure because of the holidays, but I should get it around the first week of January. I'll post my results here just to let you know how it works out - and again I really appreciate all the help...

Richard

 

I looked up your monitor ID and on the site "LCD Tech" site and it's listed as an LG.Phillips panel. It's definitely a higher quality panel (as well as being higher resolution) than the standard panel I have, but I think I'm going to give the HDX16 a go. The build is similar to the DV5 (which I like) but I like some of the options on the HDX16 - just hoping that the screen quality is as good as it's said to be, since I placed an order for one today.

Just curious if you've ever had to return a system to HP on 21 day return policy - if so, are they fairly easy to work with?

Thanks for your help and I'll post my results here after I get the system up, running and calibrated...

Richard

 

I don't, but my friend and a lot of other people on this forum haven't really had a hard time returning. Just say you are not satisfied with the product and that you want to return it for a FULL refund.

 

The problem I had was with a 1420 wxga+ 1440 X 900 I believe.. The first panel was a sec samsung.. bad bad viewing angles and dark.. the second was a grainy AUO.. looked like smeared vasoline on the screen and the hinge assembly was cracked on first system... managed to bypass QC .. don't think that happened in shipping. It was behind the screen, lower down so I think Dell shipped it thinking most customers would not notice.

As for customer service and returns Dell is very good. It goes like this. Dell has good CS and crappy hardware and poor engineering IMO. HP has decent hardware and CS is lacking. IMO, Dell is stricter on outsourced personel and they generally have good dialec. With HP, its hard to understand many of them. Either way, you can generally return systems with dell or HP in the first 21-30 days.

As for Dells speakers the reason I don't like them is they have very little in terms of soundstage/imaging and stereo separation.. No crossovers or anything to help.. Just cheap wired speakers. Wheras HP's have altec lansing and you can tell right off they image better with wider/broader soundstage and separation. What this means is you can actually use the HP speakers for extended periods of time wheras the dells you will go to the trouble and connect some externals. Dells only suffice for short periods/limited use. I found them to be brutal. Dells just seem like junk to me and they use cheap components and glass.

 

Thanks for the info on your experiences with Dell & HP. I haven't owned a Dell previously, but have been through quite a few HPs and IBM/Lenovo systems over the years. I've always found the build quality on the HP to be reasonably solid, though I had similar issues with their outsourced support.

I always appreciate having some non-technical person read through a scripted support screen on their computer, asking intelligent questions like "is the system plugged in" or "the power switched on" So my first statement is always to ask for Tier 2 support - if they refuse I ask for their manager. That usually gets me to someone with some technical expertise or the willingness to issue an RMA without making you go through all their amateurish "trouble-shooting". In fact, I follow that same protocol whenever I have to request tech support on anything, which thankfully is not very often.

The speakers on the HDX16 are described as "Home-theater-quality audio with premium 2.1-capable speakers, with a 7.1 audio system capable via digital output through HDMI, a triple bass reflex subwoofer, and Dolby-simulated surround sound". Sounds good on paper, but I'll let you know how they are in reality.

If the screen doesn't meet expectations I'll probably go with the Dell RGB/LED backlit LG panel. Since the system is primarily going to be used for image processing, a good sound/speaker system would be nice but not essential. Since I'm a still photographer and don't process video, it wouldn't be a deal breaker as long as the screen meets quality expectations.

Thanks for all your support! Happy Holidays and I''l let you know how things work out...

Richard

 

Hi Friends,

Well, I went ahead and purchased an HP HDX16 on that really good 30% off sale, and the screen is so much better than the DV5t there is just no comparison. Excellent color fidelity, wide viewing angles, and the I got the 1920X1280p display, so the resolution is excellent especially for Photoshop and LightRoom image editing.

However, I have one problem with this machine that is giving me a pain - the DVD doesn't burn DVD discs. It reads CD/DVD discs fine, burns CDs just fine, but won't burn any kind of DVD - and I've got a wide variety of excellent quality discs that I use for photo file archiving. Have tried 3 or 4 different kinds of DVD-R (all Taiyo Yuden or top brands - no junk), couple of DVD+R, couple of DVD-DL... well, you get the idea. It's not the media - it's something with the drive, driver or a conflict that doesn't show up in any of the usual places - and it's just a simple DVDRW, not a Blue Ray.

I've done some reading and have heard many people complaining about these issues. I've been through all the steps - uninstalling and reinstalling both the hardware and the drivers, reimaged the system, etc. Cleaned up the OS - Nothing works, and I thought I'd ask if anyone had come across this problem and knows a definitive solution before I have to send this unit back, which I really hate to do.

This is the same disc drive as was in the DV5t, most of the configuration is the same and both were running Vista 64 Home Edition. The drive model reads HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-T50L in device manager, and as I said it is functional in every way except burning a DVD. I'm not looking forward to battling my way through tier 1 support to get to a case manager, so any help would be appreciated. If I try to copy a DVD, it will create the image, will even simulate the write cycle, but as soon as it starts the burn cycle it ejects the disc without burning a single byte. Error codes are different depending on whether I try to write directly from Vista or using the burning software.

So bottom line is this has a pretty nice display so at least that problem was solved - and I don't burn many DVDs because hard drive storage is cheaper per/GB than good quality DVDs - but at this price I do want a working machine

I'll probably post this under a new topic as well, but thought I'd see if I could reconnect with some of the knowledgeable folks that were kind enough to help me out with my first questions.

Thanks!

1/14/19 - Just a quick update:

Turns out the DVD drive is a user-replaceable part, so I contacted the HDX support team and should have one in hand next week. For anyone who may be interested in HDX direct support phone numbers or the replacement process (and outcome), there is a longer post in the HDX16 User's Lounge here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=300646&page=115

Now I can focus on evaluating the more important aspects of why I bought this machine to begin with (calibrating the display, doing some photo editing, etc.) instead of sending the system in for repair.

Thanks for everyone's help!