HP ENVY 14 vs. Alienware m11x

Hey guys,

I didn't know if I should post this in the HP forum or the Alienware, so I figured I'll just try this one first. Anywho, the title basically says it all - I'm debating between buying an HP ENVY 14 on Sunday or the Alienware m11x. Now, before you get your fanboy hats out and tell me that the ENVY 14 bests the m11x on paper in every way - let me assure you, I already understand!! No need to tell me this at all.

With that out of the way, let me explain why the Alienware is still in consideration. I am a college student going into my last year. I need something decently portable to take to class, with long enough battery life to get through the day. I also game moderately (I'll be playing WoW Cataclysm primarily come fall). I'm done with all my classes that require lengthy papers, so the cramped keyboard on the m11x doesn't concern me greatly. So without further ado, here's the dilemma:

First, I'm concerned about battery life. I want an i7 (its a mental thing ), and I know the i7 m11x won't get the stellar battery life the C2D R1 model did, but the i7 640UM in the m11x should still get pretty awesome battery life (~5 hrs), with only 18W TDP. It certainly lacks the horsepower of the i7 in the ENVY 14 though. I think the ENVY 14 i7 620M will probably only last 3 hours realistically (HP claims "up to 7", so that means an i5 430M will last 7 with zero brightness and no radios on, since thats how HP tests their batteries. The i7 will likely get considerably less than the maximum possible. The i7 in the ENVY 14 obviously obliterates the m11x in terms of performance, but at an extreme cost of battery life. The m11x is also overclockable, so for day-to-day activities, I feel like the difference would not be THAT noticeable. The slice battery for the ENVY would not be a viable option, as I don't want to lug that much weight on my back.

My second concern is build quality. Yes, the ENVY 14 is all metal, but HP SUCKS SO BAD at designing systems that move heat efficiently. I've owned a dv5000z and a tx2500z, and both of the systems overheated to the point where their respective integrated graphics failed. I do not want this to happen again, so I'm a bit worried. The ENVY 17s are also rife with complaints about keyboard flex, uneven footpads, heat, trackpad issues, etc. On the other hand, the m11x is a tank. It's plastic is soft touch with no keyboard flex. I've heard knocks against the hinges, but other than that, the R1 was WELL put together with zero keyboard flex whatsoever, so I'd imagine the R2 shares similar construction. I own a Dell XPS m1210, which is honestly the most sound build quality of any lappie I've ever owned or tried, and I would wager a guess that the m11x probably shares its basic roots with this much older machine.

Other than these two primary concerns, here is the rest of the matchup:

1.)1366x768 super glossy 11" screen on the m11x (kind of a turn off) vs. 1600x900 ultra bright 14.5" Radiance display on the ENVY 14

2.)NVIDIA 335M with crappy optimus driver support on the m11x vs. ATI Radeon 5650 on the ENVY 14 (with who knows what kind of driver support, but manual switching at this point is better than Optimus that fails to switch for certain games)

3.)A wicked awesome lighting system in the Alienware m11x (sure, it could be considered tacky, but for my purposes - its a plus) vs. a nice island keyboard with backlight in the ENVY 14

4.)A 12" footprint in the m11x vs. a 15" footprint in the ENVY 14, weight is only about a pound difference though

5.)With the Dell EPP discount of 10% for students and the available $100 coupon, I can get the i7 for right around 1k after tax. I would imagine the ENVY 14 with the i7 will reach nearly $1500, as I'm expecting $200-$300 for the processor upgrade and an additional $100 for the display, and then probably bluetooth, wireless n, etc. will also be at an additional cost.

So what do you guys think? Are the added costs of the ENVY 14 worth the supposed extra cash, even considering the build quality may be worse and the battery life and heat will certainly be much worse? What are your thoughts? I welcome any and all responses, even if you completely disagree with my comparison.

 

I'm having the same debate myself, but what's put me off about the m11x lately is its hinge issues. If you browse the alienware forum, there has been numerous posts about warped hinges and scratched screens (this is only after a few weeks). makes me really nervous about the m11x.

 

Let me just say that I am selling both my M11x (which I did today) and my Sager 15" NP8662 to be replaced by just the Envy 14. In theory this machine is the best of all worlds. Wish the GPU was a bit more powerful though, but there's always overclock possibilities.

 

The screen on the m11x is a huge turnoff for me. Plus the m11x is bulky looking, and would look pretty tacky in the working world (which I will be joining soon). Also the 5650 will out perform the m11x in games.

You should probably wait a few weeks to read some reviews to see how long battery life is.

If I were you, I would go for an envy14 with an i5 540, and a slice battery, if battery is really that important to you. This would all come up to probably $1,100, with good discounts. The i5 will probably be powerful enough for anything you throw at it, and will be MUCH better on battery life.

And don't moan about the slice weighing you down. If you cant carry a pound more on your back, then you should be spending your money on a gym membership instead of a new laptop.

 

I've been debating this hard myself as well... I need a portable laptop (less than 14" preferably) with middle-upper class GPU, and options are extremely limited. With unlimited budget I'd go for Sony Z but when I'm done I'm well over $2,000 - at that point I'd rather upgrade my desktop and buy a mid range laptop.

Lenovo Y460 is very good candidate as well, except for lower res screen and supposedly mediocre build quality. As you know Acer 3820TG is also a very good choice, except it is not available in U.S yet.

The biggest problem IMHO with M11x is the screen size - if they put an upper 12" screen or so with 1440x900 that would have been a total deal-maker for me. I'm currently using 1440x900 res. 14" screen at work right now and I can't imagine going any lower res. from that, because I already feel this thing is cramped compared to 1650x1080 and higher resolution dual monitor setup that I'm used to. Open up a couple of browsers and an MS office product and its already full. With 1366x768, you lose too much real estate in my opinion if you are going to do anything more than one browser up at once.

Things I'm worried about ENVY 14 is build quality and heat dissipation. ENVY 17 doesn't sound too good right now in that regard, but HP laptop of comparable size (dm4t) is getting very favorable reviews so I'm still hoping ENVY 14 would be a good one. As far as heat dissipation goes, I'm hoping that metal chassis will help dissipate the heat, even at the cost of slight discomfort. I'd rather have the internal components run cooler and wear thicker pants.

So in summary, I'd definitely wait and see how ENVY 14 pans out. The options I will be getting are higher res screen and i5 450M / 520M depending on the price.

 

The screen size difference puts these laptops in completely different categories for me.

 

i7 a mental thing?

The i7-640UM has less horsepower than any standard i5 within Envy14.
OK it's the best you can get in the m11x, but it's in a complete different "energy-saver" class.

m11x feels solid and is surprisingly heavy for its size.
There is no Envy14 for comparision yet.

I saw the m11x screen at a local shop. It's a complete turn-off for me.

Both GPUs have very similar gaming power. So no decission point for me.

Nice for a LAN Party but a keyboard with backlight is enough for me.

That's the obvious difference of both.
You really can't compare notebooks which have such differences in size.

If you really need something that small there is no alternative to the m11x even if it's a small heavy brick with a very poor screen. No other notebook puts that power in this small size.

If you are ready to agree to something a lot bigger, don't even consider the m11x. The Envy14 has got a lot more advantages at it's size. But don't get the standard low-res screen. The 1600x900 screen is the main advantage of Envy14.

 

The only disadvantage of the envy 14 is that it is built by hp.

 

I have also been considering both. Things I have been looking for are, less than 15", nice exterior package, decent battery life and power. In most cases the later two are a trade-off. I almost got an alienware until I saw one in person at the local best buy. The thing is not very easy on the eyes and it's chunky. It reminds me of laptops from the early 90's with the exception of the LEDs.

If the envy 14 lives up to what HP has been advertising, then it will be a perfect mate of all of my requirements. I think I will wait a few weeks after release to see what actual users think of it before making a final decision but I am pretty set on trying it at least.

The one advantage the alienware has is that it has been out for a while and has some solid reviews. I think I will give the envy an opportunity to build a little rep before purchase. Hopefully, the rep is good. ;P

 

I have an Envy15 (i5 430m) and an M11x R2 (i7 640UM) here. The Envy15 feels very sluggish at times just doing regular stuff (scrolling in the browser, opening files etc), probably because the CPU is stuck at 1.2GHz while on battery. The M11x feels way more responsive doing those same tasks, because it can go all the way to 2.2GHz even on battery (with OC at 166 it goes to 2.8).

The Envy15 does wprime 32m at 49 seconds on battery, 23 seconds plugged in. The M11x does it in 36 (again OC off) on battery or plugged in.

I don't know if all HPs are that way, crippling the CPU while on battery power. Keep this in mind if/when you order your Envy14. This will be my last HP if they're all that way. I'm still waiting for my TM2T (HP orders ALWAYS miss delivery date!). If the CPU is crippled on battery it's going right back.

The M11x R2 is a great little machine. I'm having a very tough time deciding if I'm going to sell my Envy15 as I hate the general sluggishness when on battery, but I love the 1080p screen and the dual hard drive setup.

 

They Sony Vaio Z and Acer 3820TG are competitors. They are 13" but really aren't any bigger than the M11x and employ full i5/i7 GPUs.

That seems odd. I thought the whole point behind the Arrandale CPU was to automatically upclock based on CPU load. Not to mention it seems the user should be able to adjust whether they want it on CPU power saver or not.

 

I guess HP thinks they know better than Intel or its customers HP's BIOS is completely stripped of all the options to control anything.

 

What about Windows power management? Usually that's fairly robust.

 

I doubt it is made by HP. It is most likely made by Quanta or some other ODM.

 

I wish it's a Windows issue. It's not. Have a look at the wprime on battery vs AC. I purposely set Windows power management for high performance while on battery, and balanced while on AC.

Compare the 50% completion time on battery vs plugged in.

 

Thanks for the info! Although not good news.

This is frustrating now. If this is the case for the Envy 14 then they absolutley better have some workaround somehow. To not at least offer the user the option is kind of disconcerting. I don't want to lose performance because I'm unplugged. Kinda stupid.

 

Indeed - I think Alienware made it very clear that for M11x they will not be throttling the CPU for battery life. Too bad about HP though

 

You know that throttling back the CPU speed on battery power is an option under "advanced power settings", right? You can adjust it in your current power plan, in the "advanced" pop-up box, under "maximum CPU usage on battery" or something like that.

 

To the OP, please do let us know if this solves the problems you are having. That is unless you've covered this base already.

 

of course I know that. But Windows' power management settings cannot override HP's hardware settings. If I set max CPU state to 50% on AC in Windows, the CPU magically gets stuck at 1.2GHz, just like when it's on battery. I guess 1.2GHz is the minimum speed on the i5 430m, because setting max CPU to 50% on battery it's still stuck at 1.2GHz, does not drop to 600mhz LOL.

To "fix" this HP will have to release a firmware, but of course this is by design so there's nothing to fix. There's an Insyde BIOS hacking thread, but the last I looked no one has unlocked (A LOT more BIOS options) the Envy15 BIOS yet. I'm not even sure if CPU throttling under battery power has an adjustable setting even if the additional settings are unlocked...

 

well this is disconcerting

 

I knew it would go nowhere, but I wasted an hour of my life talking to HP support anyway. Went thru the usual BS, I already did this and that and everything else you (the support person) can think of. Put me on hold multiple times to talk to the "lead". I asked multiple times what it would take to escalate it to more senior engineering guys but she repeatedly refer to her "lead person". Finally she says "to preserver battery life, ONLY run my computer at 2.2GHz when plugged in" Like I have a choice

This will NEVER get fixed, unless HP gets millions of returns from people noting this behavior.

I hope the Envy 14 is not this way. But if it is, make sure you state the reason of your return clearly - CPU runs at half speed while on battery!

 

No, it's a hardware BIOS issue. Needs to be done with firmware which only HP can do (or third party hack but can be dangerous).

 

That's right. The multiplier is locked at 9x while on battery, yet the Envy15 still manages <3hrs. Going by HP's claim for battery life on the Envy14, I have very high suspicion that it will also be crippled.

I'm going to hop over to the Envy17 threads to see how its performance fares while on battery.

 

@ the OP, the Envy 14 doesn't have a i7 620m option, only an i7 720 option.

 

I was just going to mention this. It seems like gaming is a big deal to you OP. The M11x was built with portable gaming in mind. We know that on battery it can clock all the way to the maximum potential, as I've run 3dmark06 with and without battery no problems. And that's ~2 hours of full gaming on discrete and battery. If you think you'll be gaming w/o an AC often, then take that into consideration. I knew I heard of this issue before on the Envy line, so who knows.

It's like when everyone was considering the Sony Z thinking the 330m was close enough and the i-series could make up for it. Turns out, portable gaming on the Z wasn't reasonable, due to heat, and underclocked GPU. The problem is we don't know what the Envy 14 has in store. I like the Envy 14 and am considering it too, but I don't want to be disappointed just yet. Need some guinea pigs haha

 

Yes, please give throttlestop a try:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/acer/452692-acer-throttlestop-thread.html

 

Tried it, nope didn't do it. Positively stuck at 9x.

It seems Envy 17 is the same way. Looky here.

PS sorry OP for hijacking this thread.

 

haha nice one, that surely made me laugh.. even i am having the same problem! need to order a lappy this week and cant decide between the last two on my list! been waiting for months and was supposed to order m11x i7 today and then i saw all these forums saying envy 14 is out.. now m again dumbstruck! wat2do...........

 

You could always get what I got. Decent comprimise between size/performance/build quality all for only $899. See Sig.

 

if my envy 14's cpu is crippled while on battery i will be seriously considering it.

 

What's the battery life on that Sony? AFAIK, only the Z series is worth the while in that respect.

 

I was looking forward to trying the Envy 14/17 but there is no way I will buy a computer with such ugly etched graphics. I hope they will offer a 'smooth' version sometime.

 

I had considered teh CW26/27 from Best Buy for the i5 + 330m but wasn't there a battery drain issue? Wonder if that's been fixed. I hear the screen isn't great either, but I'm on the M11x and that screen isn't as nice.. but I hear the Envy 14's will be spiffy

 

CW is nice except it lacks in battery life. That is one of major selling points of the M11x and Vaio Z. The Z also has a higher screen resolution which is desirable for more desktop workspace.

The pre-built configurations at Micro Center aren't horribly priced. The i5-520m, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD are $1699. CPU is definitely more powerful, and 128GB SSD is supposed to be better than the Samsung's offered by Dell.

 

Well I will agree the CW battery life isnt stellar. Ive been getting 3 - 3.5 hours per charge but Ive never needed to use my laptop away from an outlet for that long anyways.

As for the screen I think its beautiful and produces an excellent picture. The horizontal viewing angles are fine but the vertical viewing angles are terrible. In its defense I have yet to ready very many reviews where the a new laptop with an led has had great vertical viewing angles.

 

Is this a new thing by HP? The limiting the cpu on battery? Or is it just an envy issue?

I have a HP G60 laptop (bought a year and a half ago) and there's no throttling there at all. Funny isn't it how a budget laptop from late 2008 doesn't face this issue but the premium 2010 envy laptops do

 

Without having much proof, from what I've read the CPU throttling is more due to use of a polymer Lithium-ion battery that can't support a sustained power draw on battery at actual speeds. Regular Lithium-ion batteries fare better and best I can figure out the Envy 14 is a regular Lithium-ion battery.

 

Get the E14. m11x at BB was not what I expected it to be. Keyboard's crappy/flimsy, and screen is dimmish. E14, just cuz it's built by HP means nothing. HP's got better build quality than every mainstream brand except Dell and Lenovo, which usually cost a bit more.

Get the E14 if your budget allows.

 

I actually had the vaio cw27 from bestbuy for about 2 weeks. I ended up returning it. While I liked the speed and was surprised by how cool it ran, I couldn't tolerate the miserable battery life and the glossy black palm rests were a huge turn off. Other than that, it would have been a good deal.

I went with the envy. Thanks for everyone's help.

 

I'd suggest waiting for reviews of the E14 before you decide, unless you're trying to get a laptop right away.

 

I'm the kind of person who (if I can afford it) buys something and uses the return period to review it myself. Why wait for someone else to tell me how it is, when I can just decide for myself based on my own specific needs. Unfortunately, I don't have the cash to buy two systems and return the one I like least, which would really be the optimal solution.

 

I currently own an Alienware m11x and I am selling it and buying an Envy 14. Reasons:

1) Screen was WAY too small. (My Friends also agreed)

2) Keyboard was semi small. (My Friends thought the keyboard was VERY small)

3) Semi crap plastic casing. The hinge WILL break (80% guarantee).

4) No optical drive... I didn't really mind, but some people do.

Stuff I will miss:

1) 5Hr battery life.

2) AlienwareFX lighting.

 

I've dumped both my M11x's for the Envy 14. I loved the M11x R1 but sold it to get the new R2 which was a total let down (IMO). I used mine mainly to play WoW on the road as I am my guild's GM and need to be on constantly and consistently. I'm hoping WoW performance on the Envy 14 will meet my needs, if not, it's going back.

 

I'm hoping for the same thing - I'm really thinking the 5650 will slay WoW. It's relatively comparable to the 335M in the m11x, and I see good fps's on the card in other systems. I'm banking on it tackling Cataclysm without issues - hopeful I'm not let down in that regard.

Just curious - why was the R2 a letdown? Crap drivers thus far? I feel like build quality has been roughly the same as the R1 in every regard (minus some heat issues).

 

EDIT: Double-post

 

envy 14 has everything the mx11 had with a better gpu.

 

I believe the GT335 is actually a better GPU but regardless HP should offer a difference of either ATI or Nvidia. I really can't wait until the raidence screen gets reviewed by notebookcheck, also the m11x is really a great machine and even better with the Samsung screen i have compared to the crappy AUO one, boy it was horrible, what sucks is that the Vaio Z is lighter and has a powerful cpu and the m11x is the opposite but heavier without an optical drive... Freaking trade offs. If i dorm i will probably get this machine cause its better and have a larger resolution etc..

 

ati 5650 is slightly better than the nvidia 335m. There is not a great deal in it though maybe 5-10%. Both are good overclockers too

 

5650 is 10% or more faster and supports dx11 (335 does not)

Anyone wanting full feature support for games going forward will want the 5650 hands down.