*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (2XXX series) Owners Lounge*

Ok, hold on...but how in heck does HP even do it? Seriously? Was the installer drunk or on something else? You would think they would know the effects of such an action. Besides, HP has no right to play around with his HDD, and SSD....the owner should configure it the way they like... I would be more than P..Off!!!!! Wow...ok, a glass of water or Pepsi Max for me, thanks....

P.S. Now I'm hoping HP didn't try to be "creative" with my 640GB 7200rpm drive....

KJ

 

yea I dont' get it either KJ. HP doesn't support raid0 on dissimilar drives, so someone was smoking something they shouldn't have. But-- consider this: if RAID0 is available in the BIOS, I assume one can turn it on and stripe the disks, and my guess is that this is somehow automated during the mfg process - the image is installed on the primary drive, and then all dual disk configs are automatically striped to RAID 0. thats my guess -- and some mfg engineer has yet to see that s/he should exclude the SSD from this practice, lol and then produce a BIOS update that prevents this from happening in the field.

 

dlleno, ok, I think I understand....you are saying that possibly what happened to cam121's SSD is that it was RAID0 at the manufacturing site, not installation?

As mentioned before, another user here stated this happened to their Envy 17 3D SB also....so manufacturing fluke...hmmmm

KJ

 

Considering I wasn't planning on booting windows and loading software, I figured it would be easier to check the sticker. Besides I wanted to open the access panel anyway to look at the internals.

The RAM is ONLY 1333 MHz!!!

If I can fix it, it's no big deal. However if others report 1600MHz RAM, I'll be quite pissed off. Hoping HP Nate can address the RAM issue here since he reported that the 2820QM's should ship with the better memory.

 

Chance are they got a new person installing the software images on the drives before they ship and (s)he was probably told to configure RAID 0 stripes on the dual 1TB drive configurations and instead (s)he's doing it for ALL of the configuration. As long as the DVD's restore the laptop to factory state, all I did was lose a couple hours of time. Good thing I noticed this BEFORE I started to install my own software.

 

Heat Issue

Regarding heat, yesterday, i worked on my Envy 173d for about 5 hrs., by that time left side of laptop was pretty hot (i.e. left side of trackpad), Right side stays cool. The fan is at the top left corner (right at the base of screen), that section house the cpu, so understandably it is hot, but what exactly is at the left palm rest to make it so dang hot.

I have dv7t (that i have to return) with 2 HDD in it, and it did not get even fraction of that hot compare with envy (although fan in that one is pretty loud)

I have tried coolsense, putting first the middle option then the Coolest setting. It did help cooling it down with the trade of loud fan noise. At quietest mode it just too darn hot to work, unless you live up north and need a hand warmer.

 

Thanks. That is dissapointing... I get mine next Tuesday, I'll check and confim mine too. If its 1333MHz, I'm going to order the 8GB of 1600MHz ram probably at Newegg for $99 if its still on sale.

KJ

 

I'm bummed FedEx changed my delivery date from the 21st to the 23rd. I paid for 2nd day shipping that really grinds my gears.

 

dlleno, I just checked and the Envy's hardware raid is RAID0 (Stripe) only. Can't run a hardware RAID 1 (Mirror).

I just broke the stripe on my laptop and running the factory restore now.

 

Shipments out of China are usually delayed 24 hours due to the difference in time between there and the US. Mine got pushed out 24 hours, but it still made it in on time. You are also fighting the weekend right now when deliveries are pushed out an extra day due to no Sunday delivery.

 

right-o. This could be as simple as two mistakes out of the development lab: (1) The BIOS might come pre-configured to RAID0 when they flash it for the first time, which would stripe the disks upon bootup without anyone doing it on purpose (either this is true or a warm human being turned it on like you said, and (2) perhaps more importantly: there appears to be a bug in the BIOS. imho, it should not allow RAID 0 when the SSD is present.

I'm feeling a BIOS update coming... lol minimally, some HP mfg engineer has got some process instructions to re-write, or training to do

 

The factory restore basically failed. It took forever to load up those 5 DVD's and on the reboot, "No bootable media found".

Sigh......

So I loaded up the Windows 7 recovery console and repaired the boot sector and master boot record. The system does boot now and it's doing some HP installation. Hope it's running correctly. More to follow.

 

Yeah my shipping got bumped back two days as well...was supposed to be here next Tuesday, now it says Thursday! Granted I didn't pay extra for shipping so I have no room to complain, I just don't understand how they could have been so far off, and why it takes that long with even normal shipping to get it to NY. :/

 

This happened to me last time. Basically due to the time difference, the "Fed Ex" pickup in China is outside the expected retrieval time. The time information is originally calculated by FedEx at the initial time of shipment request, but due to the large time difference, the pickup occurs on the next business day according to a US time zone entry. As a result, your shipment gets delayed one day. However, since there is no Sunday delivery, it gets delayed two days. Chances are high, you'll get it on the same day it originally scheduled to arrive or the following day (since you can't do anything about the weekend).

 

nice work cam121. the only think I might suggest is that you let HP know what they did -- to get a customer record started for documentation purposes. Also whine at the Sales team and at least get them to send YOU a recovery disk (optical) if not a $200 credit for this bogus hocus pocus

 

I've already informed HP Nate of the troubles I'm experiencing. The hardware is quite awesome, but the software installation was pretty FUBAR'd. I'm hoping he can help.

The recovery is still running. Hoping it works!!! /crosses fingers

 

Yes, and possibly a new SSD. IDK, I just want it to be fair to cam121....

KJ

 

This may have been answered, I can't find it, but why it the Envy 17 3D less than the non 3D when both are maxed out?

 

Briju never came back to the thread to report, but I'd bet you anything the exact same thing that happened to cam121 happened to Briju.

So it's quite possible they are using bad procedures or have some problem with default settings.

 

So...I also ordered my system with the 2TB hard drive option (dual 1TB 5400 RPM). Will my system be "striped" and show up as one huge 2TB hard drive (with of course a small HP Recovery partition)? Can someone summarize the problems people are experiencing with the Raid 0 configuration, as well as the pros/cons. Most likely, I think I'd rather worl with two separate drives. I was going to use the second one pretty much for just Backup of my media.

 

The drives will show as separate. I have a 2TB model. I have yet to touch the second drive, however. I have used up almost half of the first one, though.

 

Well, I checked the HP.com site and my shippment is delayed a couple days like the rest of you guys. Instead of 3/22/11 it will arrive 3/24/11 on a Thursday. Still, very excited about this system and plan on enjoying it every single day!

KJ

 

vsherry, nice. I was wondering if you or anyone here heard the saying about not filling up the HDD to capacity. I thought I heard or read somewhere that one should leave 20%-30% unused space in the HDD in order not to slow its functionality.... Any truth to it guys? Are the numbers higher or lower to get optimimal performance from your drive?

KJ

 

This is true for SSD. However, with spindled HDs, you really don't want to run out on your boot drive so you should always have a least a gig or 2 free.

 

1GB or 2GB free, is that all? Seems like your are saying fill it up to over 99% of capacity and it won't matter? Hmmm, what about when you move files, etc...and the files have to write to an empty section etc.... It is curious and might have to research a bit more, thanks jywang.

P.S. Just did a little Googling research on this matter... I know I was fast...lol, anyway...some say this: If its a secondary drive you can go ahead and fill it to capacity, but if its your primary drive where the OS is, its best to leave it at 80% full.....no more... That is sort of what I've been following.


KJ

 

Are there any reviews about batter life on the new Envy 17? I was really hoping for a new 15 but that probably won't happen. I know HP claims like 2 hours with the 6-cell battery, but I'd like to know what real-world time is like.

Can anyone who has one post battery times?

 

In order to have both drives you will need a cable and caddy kit, $40 from newmode or a bunch more from HP.

The last round of benchmarks I saw, the Vertex 3 handily crushed everything else availlable on the market, even in SATA II mode. That benchmark did NOT include the Crucial M4. After I pre-orded my Vertex 3 I stopped reading benchmarks, or following what the other manufacturers were doing. so I don't know how the M4 looks or when they might be shipping. Also Intel has a new drive on the way.

The Vertex 3 should be available for purchase on the open market late next week.

 

As the disk fills and fragments, performance decreases. the rule of thumb used to be 10% minimum free -- the OS needs breathing room on the disk. If you are approaching 90% full you've got troubles brewing... I personally like the 80% rule better this will help avoid fragmentation as well.

 

In the case of dual 1TB drives, you are better with a stripe as you will get better performance from the laptop. Of course, if one of the hdd's fails, you lose the whole array. If you do stripe, you should leave a few GB free in case the OS needs it for swap space growth or whatever, but are you really gonna fill 2TB? If so, get an external USB drive!

Edit #1 - If you are going to defrag the hdd, windows will need like 25% of the disk free in order to move files around. It warns you if there is not enough free space to do a proper defrag.

 

You ordered your 2TB model recently? (E.g. 2nd Generation)

 

This is evidence that cam121 is right - my BIOS theory (that it is flashed with RAID0 turned on be default) doesn't hold up under the above evidence. someone is incorrectly reading instructions and striping the disks, it appears, oh I don't know, randomly? lol maybe they are practicing their skills, still, on the production line hah hah

I do think that the BIOS should disable RAID0 when the SSD is present... thats silly to even allow that, lol

 

Well isn't that why Windows runs the Disk Defragmenter once a week?

 

Two 256GB SSD's striped would be VERY nice! I can dream...

 

No, the bios shouldn't let you stripe non-similar disks or disks of different capacity. I'd love a couple of SSD's striped...

 

thats certainly doable, but there are advantages to using both spindles "live"- either striped or storing data on a drive separate from the OS. Reliability is better for the latter -- if one spindle goes down you haven't lost the other one.

cam121 correctly describes the striping pros and cons. Frankly, its a viable option in my mind when you have a pair of 5400s just because of the performance improvement. just make sure you have a robust backup solution.

 

lol striped SSDs what a hoot that would be. soon we won't need SSDs at all -- too much overhead with a dedicated I/O controller on top of the silicon to make it "appear" like a rotating disk drive. Instead, load up a pile of silicon memory on the MB itself, and pre-load the OS on that much like a really large BIOS!

 

In some ways I see the desktop market heading that way with the PCI SSD stuff that is available now. In either case it will be exciting to watch it develop over the next few years.

There have been folks on some of the SSD forums that have I have seen stripe SSD's in their laptops, it's pretty insane some of the performance possible in a portable device these days.

 

yep. it tries to keep things organized on the disk, and you better have enough space for it to shuffle things around when it runs!

 

Yeah... that is why I brought this topic up... I've experienced it before when trying to defrag...and the computer gave me a big NOPE, sorry, can no do... lol, it told me to clear up some space on the HD in order for the system to defrag.....

KJ

 

yay. So there's the rule to follow -- whatever is imposed by the defragmenter should be the rule of thumb for disk free space. I do believe this figure is at least 20% free, although cam121 reports that this figure could be 25% free.

 

The system recovery finished and I finally had a chance to step through the questions. It looks like it worked. Of course, the Intel Storage program is telling me "Hey I see you have another disk here, it would be cool if you created a raid!" --- NOT!!!!

I just cleaned a bunch of junk off the programs list. Honestly, Adobe 9? Plz... Adobe X has been out awhile now.

Looks like I'll begin the arduous task of re-installing all my apps. I still have two concerns though:

1. The boot time isn't as good as I expected it to be. I recall a better boot time on my older Envy, but at least its much better than the abomination of the stripe ssd+hdd. The SSD is Intel. Actually now that I think of it, I think its the newer bios. It takes windows 15 seconds to boot from "Starting" to "Login". It takes almost that same amount of time for HP to start windows from power on. Weird.

2. Speaking of the 640GB option, I only got 596GB usable on it. Sheesh...

SSD = Intel SSDSA2M160
HDD = Toshiba MK6461GS

 

I spoke too soon about the ThermalTake power block. The Envy is telling me it has to reduce performance due to a "smart" adapter providing lower power than expected. Oh well, it's still about half the cost of the HP one and it ships with angled connectors for multiple manufacturers. I wonder how bad performance will be on the road with this smaller adapter. At home I plan on using the behemoth one.

 

cam121, your input today was very valuable, thanks alot. +1 rep, overdue, lol.


KJ

 

If I decide to pull the trigger on this bad boy I should consider hiring Killa Joe to place my order. He seems to know how to haggle and get what he wants.

 

Aweeee, lol Naw, you give me too much credit... It really is patience...lots of it, and also being on NBR...alot! When I first ordered my 1first gen. Envy 17 3D it was a few days later after the "$400" expired.... the rep only gave me $150 off... By the way, the only way I found NBR was googling for coupons for the Envy 17 3D, lol The link mentioned that crazy, short lived coupon.... It worked out in the end returning the laptop because of defect...being patient for the SB edition, then jumping on the $300 coupon that was not meant for the Envy 17 3D SB, only for the regular Envy 17....yes, I was lucky the rep outside USA applied it to my SB order and told me I was lucky to call on a 1 day HP sale gave me $100 extra off....

paulionvc, if I were you now, you should either just straight out ask for at least $400 off your order with no coupon, but that is a very slim chance of success. Otherwise, I'd say wait a bit....be on NBR frequently, daily...google coupons...sooner or later it will show up. Good luck and hopefully you can join us "Officially" as an Envy owner...we shall be here. Oh, and welcome to NBR.

KJ

 

My first generation Vertex boots at around that speed on a core i5 HP8440 as a reference point.

Also I would check the partition alignment and run SSDTweak to make sure HP didn't miss anything with their image. In theory you should be GTG, but you never know unless you check yourself.

 

Does anyone know if a slot-loading Blu-Ray burner exists? I would love to make that a "Christmas" upgrade for myself. LOL

 

Yeap. We discussed it a day or so ago. There was a link to one that goes for around $1,000, too rich for my blood. Maybe you can find one cheaper.

KJ

 

Thank you for the welcome Killa Joe.

In regards to coupons I've had my google alerts set to pull anything regarding 'HP Envy' into my reader. Many coupons have come across - none for this bad boy.

I respect your tenacity. Products and gadgets are at least twice more enjoyable when you get a good deal.

Right now I'm simply monitoring the situation / borderline trolling to make a decision.

Lastly, I'm still waiting for some youtube video reviews...?/?

 

Whenever I receive my Envy 17 SB (I suspect 2~ weeks maybe longer who knows how HP is with replacements) I will do a video review.