*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (2XXX series) Owners Lounge*

I am unsure if the throttling is related to temperatures I did tests before with 2 previous Envy 17 SB's they all throttled even without the GPU testing just pure CPU, regardless of temperature. Sometimes it throttling as low as 61c sometimes until 70c. But it always throttled at around the same time.

Once the GPU was involved however they both would slow down to a crawl. Aka playing a game like League of Legends (which shouldn't be able to take the GPU to 100%...)

The newest Envy replacement seems to do fine with the CPU alone, and doesn't seem to go below 2.5-2.7 ghz. But as soon as furmark kicks in, it throttles.

The cooling system on the Envy 17 is rather weak, that much is true.

 

Hey I was going to ask you if you were able to share any more info that you and your contact have been discussing about this issue? It sounds like they have some leads on it. I guess mostly, just like I asked Slotti, who seemed to solve some of his issues with refreshed software, whether it's a software or hardware issue? Can you even reveal whether they are looking at hardware vs software? I'm afraid the answer is hardware, otherwise they wouldn't have to ship you new computers, but I thought I'd ask.

Also, how is the build on the newest one? Gaps? Scuffs?

 

Nope...not a word in there about LED screens specifically, everything but.

 

This is just a rumor, but I've heard that all the Spyder3's are LED compatible. Maybe send an email to the company? I'll let you know if I find anything else out because as a photographer, I'm also interested in finding an affordable calibrator.

 

I won't reveal any information anymore, I am afraid my last post revealing information about the Envy 14 SB as well as letting 2 people place orders did not go so well, mostly people who are illogically upset over the Radiance display, and one who for some reason thought Sandy Bridge was not a good choice (I guess the lowest end mobile Quad for SB being faster then even some of the quad core desktop processors was not enough).

Yes I know if it's hardware or software related. Yes they have leads.

 

This is from the Datacolor spyder 3 website:

"New Support for Next Generation Displays
Patented Spyder3 optical design and color engine enable precise calibration and profiling of the latest in wide gamut, LED backlight and AdobeRGB displays."

However I have just read in photography forums that the spyder3 isn't always the best with wide-gamut screens. However, they were talking about professional editing-type screens, so I doubt any laptop screen has a wide enough color-gamut to cause problems.

Still, an email to the company is probably best. The spyder3 express is a tempting price though, even the pro isn't that much.

 

You are right Marcus, Spyder3 isn't particularly good at wide gamut screens. However the Envy 3D or regular 1080p are not wide gamut they are 72% gamut which is standard in most external monitors, not very standard in laptops.

Spyder3 will work quite well.

Also on a final note, Colorimeters will work in CCFL or LED backlit LCD's. Both CCFL/LED produce the same results which is shine light on the LCD matrix so it can be visible.

 

But here is the catch...
A normal user does not even know what TRIM is. So they won't know what to look for, nor know if their current OS supports it. TRIM isn't an acronym...so a normal user may not even grasp what it means. Maybe it should be called "Auto-Trim"...or "Auto-Trimming".

All they know is that an SSD is supposed to be fast. It isn't that most user's don't "care" about pruning......(as most users understand the concept of defragging HDD's).....it is that they don't know that it needs to be done in the first place....if it is being done automatically...and what are the concequences of it not being done. I think normal users know that flash drives will eventually die...but may not know how or why...or if they are speeding up the process.

I agree with what you are saying in terms of speed and ease.....eventually.....

But I think the current potential issues are a bit to scary for normal users. Once the prices drop...and everything supports TRIM (or software that does not support it has been phased out)...and all the firmware bugs are worked out....it will be great.

 

Yep, exactly what I saw. And that's just what I mean about the Envy screen, despite being a great laptop screen, it's not going to give a color calibrator any issues with a 'too-wide' color gamut. Last thing to note is that a few people with real monitors (meaning not laptops) said that all they had to do was turn the brightness down a few clicks when adjusting and then the spyder 3 did a great job.

 

Bios shows no disk present when I attach the SSD. That is what I am worried about.

 

Ya, I agree. And while I threw TRIM in there as an example, I don't think that's going to be the biggest issue a new user might face, although it might add to an overwhelming pile of unfamiliar terms.

I think it's things like deciding, and then executing, whether you are going to use the Marvell controller driver, or the MS AHCI, and how the heck does IDE fit in to all of this in regards to an SSD? Since a lot of these things are not very automatic and user friendly yet, I can't really see the average laptop user going into the bios or registry and doing something like enabling ACHI mode.

At this point, it's just much easier to just install a fast platter drive unless you want to pay the money for a preinstalled and preconfigured SSD (and even then, they don't always show up ready to use, as some early Envy owners found when their ssd+640gb 7200rpm drives showed up in raid 0

 

Can you see the drive anywhere when it's attached? Device manager? Anywhere?

1. I doubt this is an issue, but do you have any other drives you can put in the same location to make sure the ports are fine.

2. more importantly, do you have another computer you can plug the ssd into to see if it if finds it or not?

This is a new drive, nothing loaded on?

 

Yeah 100% of professional external monitors come preset at too high of a brightness. They require high brightness for certain professional situations.

 

Hello all! I tried to do the fresh install of Win7Pro using the iso from windows and the sticker key. Everything was going along well until I had some driver and windows update issues. I called HP ENVY Total Care support and I spoke to a very nice guy; at the end of the day, the chipset built into the ENVY that is configured with an HDD from the factory will not work with an SSD upgrade. As such, I'll be sending mine back for a refund since I am within my 21 days. The system is beautiful and I was really looking forward to playing with it, but it doesn't seem like it's going to work without having to deal with many issues, now and in the future...

Thanks to all of your for your help ! Enjoy your systems!

 

Wait....what?
Are you saying the rep told you that you cannot add an SSD to a system that came with an HDD because of the chipset? That sounds crazy....

 

As Bob said, there is no performance benefit to deleting it. I just removed the drive letter in Windows so I didn't have to see it in explorer windows or other dialog save windows. The recovery process from F11 (or whatever key it is) shouldn't care about the drive letter too, however if I ever had a need to, I could put the drive letter back quite easily.

One of the issues I believe has to do with people who are used to using two fingers to operate the pad. I for one prefer to use my left hand on the buttons and my right hand for the pointer, but on this trackpad, that doesn't work right (mouse jumps all over the screen because of the multi-touch support). If I only use one finger to move and push a button (or tap) then it works fine but it slows me down considerably.

As for your palm resting on it, I believe there are some configuration tweaks that mostly resolve if not eliminate that problem.

You can always pay $19 to HP and they will send them.

Makes me wonder if the Intel RAID controller requires a driver disk in order to see the SSD on the fresh install if a HDD is not on the second channel. Could be something to do with legacy vs AHCI but I am almost 99% sure this should just work without needing a driver boot disk. I suppose it's possible the whitelist in the bios is stopping him from seeing it on bootup, do we know what brand/model SSD is being used?

 

That is crazy, I am 99.999999% positive you are being fed bullcrap.

 

They said that the ENVY is built by hand to work as configured from the factory. As my system shipped with just the 750GB 5400 RPM HDD, they said the chipset on the motherboard would only support a HDD. I'd assume if you configured the machine with a SDD and HDD from the factory, then it would be ok. I'd also assume that you could install a SSD as the secondary drive, but it doesn't sound like you can go from a HDD factory install to a bootable SSD via self-upgrade.

Before I initiate the return, can anyone confirm if they give me false information? Do I have any other options?

As always, thank you all for your help!!

Doesn't sound correct to me either, but what's a guy to do?!? He compared the ENVY to a high-end sports car: 'you don't upgrade it yourself, you bring it to the dealer...'

 

This is on the same level as the tech who tried to tell me that my IN HOME warranty didn't mean "In Home". Tell that to the tech who is coming to replace my keyboard on Friday...

That is flat out WRONG! You should have no issues installing an SSD in place of a HDD. The two main chipsets in the machine H67 and ICH10 are both standard Intel chipsets. ICH10 is SATA III and supports RAID. Understand...that HP is gonna tell you what THEY want to hear. You said the install went fine until some updates...Like other companies...you buy a machine configured. Once you make changes..they are gonna make you restrore it to shipped condition before they will help. What were the issues you had with Drivers and updates?????

 

I was having problems with freezing, so I rolled back the wifi driver. I think it was working ok after that. Then, when I do a restart, I just get a blank, black screen after the flying windows. Lastly, my SP1 update kept failing.

I really like the ENVY, but it's almost becoming more trouble than its worth for a decently high-end notebook. I thought it would be simple enough to upgrade from the HDD to the SSD, but it appears that I was way off ...

 

Incorrect. What storage hardware is used, HDD or SSD does not matter.

You can use your SSD, you just need to make recovery disks from the previous HDD's partition if you don't have windows installation disks (on windows you will have the option via HP Support Assistant software).

A few members here have already upgraded their Envy 17's with SSD's.

 

Makes me wonder if the Intel RAID controller requires a driver disk in order to see the SSD on the fresh install if a HDD is not on the second channel. Could be something to do with legacy vs AHCI but I am almost 99% sure this should just work without needing a driver boot disk. I suppose it's possible the whitelist in the bios is stopping him from seeing it on bootup, do we know what brand/model SSD is being used?



I agree here...plus the Intel Storage Manager is in the recovery process. If you do a straight system recovery off the HDD partition, you get Storage Manager loaded after it is finished. By utilizing the Storage Manager...your Intel drivers enable AHCI by default. I have a RAID array on my desktop and on bootup...I get the RAID screen with both hard discs listed as AHCI. Because of the RAID controller on my desktop my Blu Ray Burners are both listed as AHCI as well...

A clean install should see the SSD as a regular HDD...partition it and so on...whether or not there is a second HDD attached. I tried to boot into the HDDErase boot disk I made...froze. Then I booted into Norton Partition Magic and it recognized my SSD and not the second HDD...odd enough. It kept telling me that the partition table on the SSD was corrupt...do you want to fix...I clicked NO twice...then the PM console showed up and there as the SSD. HP did something...can't put my finger on what...because we all use the same bios, whether HDD or SSD. I tried at one time to update the SSD firmware...the Intel flasher doesn't even find the SSD. There has got to be an answer to this somewhere...

 

Years ago, people didn't know about fragmentation on HDD's. Most people still don't know the technical magic the occurs during a defrag but they do know that defragmenting is a necessary process that has to be done in order to maintain performance of a HDD. Granted, MS has made this easier with scheduling defrag operations and in the past many companies have taken consumers ca$h to sell them programs that automate such tasks. However, this is a process that needs to constantly occur during the life of the HDD or laptop.

TRIM on the other hand is basically automatic. Once it's setup, it's forgotten. Instructions can easily be included in the packaging to tell normal users what to type after it's installed. I'm actually quite surprised that an app hasn't been created to do all this for you with a click of the button. The Intel Toolbox has some things built into it, but it probably doesn't work with other manufacturers SSD's.

Barring all that, take your computer to a qualified service center and pay to have them install it.

However, you can't choose to remain ignorant and then complain something is too hard to do or costs too much when you want something. In time, we will educate ourselves and we will be better off for it. For those who wish to remain blissfully ignorant, I can be hired to fix your computer problems for an hourly fee.

 

I took out the 750GB 5400 RPM HDD that the system shipped with and installed a 160GB OCZ Vertex 3. I performed a fresh Win7Pro install with an iso received from Microsoft via DigitalRiver download and the sticker key. I was able to activate Win7Pro without issue and the install seemed to go just fine. Then, I went down the original SwSetup folder and ran all of the setup files. Then, I did the TriDef install and activation. The system seemed to be working fine, but one of the SwSetup or windows update installs must have screwed something up. The system started to freeze and upon restart I would get just a blank black screen after the flying windows. Then, the SP1 update kept failing.

I'd love to keep my ENVY, so if you guys can help me, I would very much appreciate it - thanks!!

 

Just a thought:

In the bios it says RAID ROM Enabled
Disabled

Is it possible that HP set up the RAID controller to work with single / double / RAIDED drives as the default. By disabling...that give us the ability to use the drives as separate entities, rather than stripe them.

With that said...I have been told that Windows 7 had RAID drivers built into it, but I could never get Win 7 installed on my desktop without the F6 floppy drivers from Intel. Without the Intel drivers the installation would not recognize my HDD. You can also download the floppy install and put on a flash drive...Win 7 does recognize that. Then you have to do a custom install and search the drive for the drivers...but at that point...I would think the SSD or whatever is in SATA 0 should be recognized. This is the only thing that makes sense to me. HP must have manipulated the bios to make ICH10 RAID...and then either enable or disable...giving you the ability to run one, two or RAIDed drives. Perhaps that is why in Win 7, we have no ATAPI / IDE device listings in Device manager and ONLY Intel Rapid Storage RAID controller...

Just thinking out loud

 

I'm willing to bet you had a freeze-up due to the wifi driver. If this occurred during a windows patch, something could have gotten corrupted. Here is what you should try:

1. Wipe the drive and start over
2. Install a clean windows 7 install
3. Disable the wireless card, use wired ethernet for now
4. Install hardware drivers and swsetup programs
5. Patch from MS update. Apply SP1.
6. Once the laptop works with a base install, enable the wifi
7. Downgrade the wifi driver to the known good version
8. Life goes on, enjoy your envy​

Or just use the recovery disks and uninstall the bloatware. Remember to downgrade your wireless driver ASAP after the restore and definitely before patching your computer.

Did you really buy a windows 7 pro upgrade from digitalriver separate from the license included with your laptop? If so, why?

 

By what you are saying...you MUST HAVE downloaded the Microsoft version of the ATI Video drivers...that would kill it all! Can you boot into Safe mode...

Boot up the machine and hold F8...the machine will start beeping like crazy...hold down and it should give you safe mode choices. Go to safe mode and then go to Programs and Features...choose to view listed updates....look for ATI / AMD Driver update...and UNINSTALL! Then uninstall anything ATI in the listed programs. You might even want to go here:

Phyxion.net - Driver Sweeper

Download driver sweeper...run it while in safe mode and remove all ATI video drivers. When you reboot your machine...you will have generic video drivers and VGA mode. Then...from SWSETUP folder...reinstall your ATI video drivers and your crashing and issues should stop.

If this doesn't work...you may have to do it all from scratch again...BUT...this has NOTHING to do with the Envy or it's configuration. Microsoft has killed a great many machines with the stupid ATI Video driver update. They should leave those kinds of drivers to the manufacturer...rather than think they know better

 

Give me the tech's email address.

I will purchase him a plane ticket and rent him a car to come physically to my house.

After I'm done beating him over the head with my Envy, he is more then welcome to use a screw driver to pop off my drive bay cover and look for himself at what is in there.

hint: nothing HP sells or supports

 

Be selective about the updates...DO NOT download ATI Video drivers again, either...

These could be two sources of issues...

 

Glad you showed up. You have done everything he is trying to do...successfully!

 

They Spyder3 will work fine with the Envy, I own one.

The biggest issue with the Spyder3 is that it does a terrible job reading color values at low luma levels. It does such a bad job in fact that software like CalMan will automatically disable you trying to calibrate greyscale at values 20 and below when using that device.

Honestly though unless you are in a production shop I don't see any reason why you should know or care. The spyder3 is the cheapest option out there and it comes with software that will automatically do everything for you, just plug and run you don't have to have the slightest clue what you are doing.

I used an X2 to calibrate my display, FWIW.

 

Thank you everyone for your time and help!!

I did not purchase a new Win7Pro key; I called the windows store and told them I wanted to do a fresh install on my new notebook. He emailed me a download link for the iso, as well as a program that lets you boot the iso from a usb drive. The key on the sticker under the laptop and phone activation worked just fine.

I will give it one more go-around since I really do want to keep my ENVY. I'll keep you posted. Many thanks, again!

 

The install disk I use had SP1 slipstreamed so that may have made things easier for me.

I seem to remember someone else in the thread trying to install SP1 over fresh install and barfing the envy. I can't remember where they landed with that issue I think they ended up grabbing SP1 as an installer package rather than doing it through windows update.

 

I've been waiting for you buddy....so, do I need anything above the base Express model in your opinion?

I wanna watch...can I buy a ticket? Better yet - can you webcast the event???

 

I had similar black screen problems as well when new. But after upgrading AMD drivers to 11.4, it seems to have vanished.

Also scaling barely works if you change the resolution to a non-native resolution and then change the scaling options. Except only 2 of the 3 options work for me. Nobody plays old games but me? BF1942 is the greatest!

 

The software bundled with the Spyder 3 Express will only let you calibrate to 6500K color temperature and 2.2 Luma. There are no configuration options in the express software at all, you literally install it, plug in the spyder and wait 5 minutes.

That is fine for 90% of situations but if you have some strange requirements or need to work in other color temperatures you'll need to either move up to the Pro/Elite or get into SpectraCal.

 

Alright further update on the laptop:
Using Core damage resulted in what I expected. The processor not really being used to it's full potential. This is probably why it remained warm during testing when it should of been very hot.

I ran prime 95, it immediately throttled.

I would recommend people to test their laptops before keeping them, unless of course you don't care.

 

Best of luck to ya mate!

Like what was discussed above, avoid any driver update through windows update like the plague. You can right click the update and hit 'hide update' so you wont accidentally run it.

Sounds like your problem was the 11.4 ati driver. Give it another shot, I'm sure we can get this thing going for ya. I'm really enjoying this laptop, would hate to see someone else not able to love theirs like I do mine

 

Okay, that makes more sense. I thought you purchased another copy of windows.

I installed SP1 from Windows Update on my Envy and it went through fine.

 

Been running Prime for about 15 minutes now. Slowest speed on my 2630 so far is 2194 nhz on Core 2. All other cores over 2200 MHZ...temp 85C.

Envy fan speed up to 4800 rpm...

Mainboard temp 53C as high. Turbo is not jumping up and down...seems locked at 2 22 GHZ...it fluctuates in HWinfo32...but never over 2.3 GHZ. When I stop Prime 95...jumps back up...so under heavy load...the machine stays at a certain level...guess not to overheat...maybe that is the Intel protection kicking in???
CPU temp overall 87C
MCH 87C
Memory 80C
GPU 68C

No drops below spec'd speed of 2.0 and started at 2.5 and slowly dropped to where it is now.

 

Gotcha, thanks for the your results. May I ask what you have done since you received your envy including if you did a recovery, then using what partition or disk. Etc. Thanks.

 

Whoa.....I think you missed the point. It has nothing to do with any of the bolded. Not sure that was necessary...

I KNOW the price WILL go down, just as I KNOW that TRIM will be available on more and more SSD's as time goes on (as opposed to early firmware with TRIM that was bricking SSD's).

I'm 100% sure SSD's will eventually replace HDD's in the future.

BUT

Not everyone is in a hurry to pay premium money for the privilege of being an early adapter on technology like this. I'm one of those people...

You are telling me the benefits that the average user would enjoy....and I'm telling you that while the average user will indeed enjoy those benefits...it may not be worth the aggravation and early adoption cost to the average user right now. We all know that the drives will continue to get larger, faster, cheaper, and more user friendly...so the average user will just wait it out.

 

Still the initial installation I received from HP. No clean install...no recovery!
First update to machine was the DVD install of Win 7 SP1...then I ran Windows updates and hid ATI Technologies update and Synaptics update. Did everything else

Just cleaned out what I considered bloatware. Made the adjustments in the Power applet in Control Panel so min processor in battery 30%, max 100% and on power made sure min and max were at 100%

Enabled Microsoft AHCI in Registry
Moved pagefile to drive D instead of SSD...minimize writes to SSD
Moved temporary internet files from drive C (SSD) to drive D...minimize writes to SSD

HP Coolsense set to Performance

Question for you. In power applet in Control Panel...I made adjustments to the HP recommended settings...

Turn off Hard Disk...
Battery...Never
Plugged in...Never

Wireless adapter settings
On Battery: Medium Power Saving
Plugged In: Max performance

Sleep
Sleep after...battery...60 mins
Plugged in...Never

USB selective suspend
Battery: Enabled
Plugged In: Disabled

PCI Express
Link State Power Management
Battery: Maximum Savings
Plugged In: Off

Processor Management
Battery Min 30%
Battery Max 100%

Plugged In Min 100%
Plugged In Max 100%

Display
Dim Display
Battery...0 Mins
Plugged in...0 Mins

Turn off display
Battery...Never
Plugged In...never

Display brightness
Battery 60%
Plugged In 70%

Pretty Much it...

 

I understand....you'll just have to come to terms with the fact that while the majority of people are friendly here...some are not.

I'm not sure if this site has an "ignore" feature but it sure would be handy at certain times.

Anyways I agree with you regarding the price thing. But at the same time I look at it as I'd rather buy something towards the beginning rather than towards the end of its life cycle just as the next "big" thing is coming out. Like SSDs for example. While they are still sorta expensive you can find some decent ones now for a reasonable price.

So I'm planning on getting one if I can when it comes time to order. My only real concerns are the issues that people seem to be having with the drivers for the 2 separate graphics chips/cards. I'm hoping that a clean install of Windows 7 followed by updating thru Windows Update will set me up correctly and allow me to turn on/off the switchable graphics features.

 

That is what happend to me! As Bobmitch mentioned, you have to tell Windows Update not to install the AMD and Intel video drivers! They will make your screen black. I did a full system restore but you can just start in safe mode, go to device manager and rollback to the old drivers. I've learned a lot from these guys here.

KJ

 

What aggravation?

Windows 7 supports TRIM and disables degfrag out of the box. Most modern drives also have GC routines that run when idle. I run SSDTweak on my drives because I can and I payed the $9.95 for it but any idiot can plug in an SSD, install Win7 and do literally NOTHING else no special care and feeding NOTHING just run their computer like normal.

In fact I have a crappy acer with a crappy Kingston SSDNow that I did exactly that on. Installed Win7 and just started using it. I never think about it other than the fact I don't hear the spindles humming, the fact that the disk is an SSD is the farthest thing from my mind. Yeah, real aggravating.

 

My power settings are pretty much configured to yours, except for dimming is enabled, I've tested this already though dw.

I see. Very well so far the laptop has not throttled in game, which is a very good sign. I will see if I can prepare a 1080P video the next coming days to see if I can get additional accurate real world results.

 

I would not rely on Windows updates to make anything possible. I do have a thought on how to disable switchable graphics...

Depends on which card you want disabled...

If you want to keep ATI...you can disable the Intel in Device manager. Simple open the Display adapter listing...right click on the Mobile Intel HD Graphics and choose disable. This will put a red X on it and it is no longer active. If you uninstall it...it will keep reinstalling when you reboot...so disable it.

Now...you should be able to use ATI graphics full time and update your catalyst drivers with no problems. Most issues with switchable is how to maintain it after updating the ATI drivers. My way of dealing with it was to keep the older CCC and install everything else. I maintained the ability to switch graphics cards AND have the new ATI drivers running. Only caviat was loss of the hotbutton for brightness...not a big deal for me.

If you choose to keep Intel graphics...you disable Radeon HD6850 the same way you would have Intel. Now you can update Intel drivers with no impact on ATI...

 

I'm going to try both of these out and see what happens, I've been meaning to do it just haven't had time. I've been watching HWINFO and it seems to bump back down to 798 a bunch, soooo...

Thanks, I went ahead and ordered the Pro version from Amazon so I can return it if it doesn't work. The reviews for these things are just all over the place!

 

fiver5, I swear, I'm giving you a +1 rep for shear entertainment value! Don't you go anywhere.

P.S. But seriously, didn't someone say HP reps read our threads? Why don't they stop telling people to send the Envy back? It does not look good on their part and on the Envy itself as a laptop. Our Envy can do so much, but HP is downgrading the quality of the machine by saying stupid stuff...nuff said.

KJ