*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (2XXX series) Owners Lounge*

I have the Intel SSD in my Envy 17 3D. From button push to Windows 7 in about 15 seconds...Sorry to burst your bubble...stability is NOT the issue with the Envy...mine runs like a gazelle!

 

LIES!!!!!

I don't know how you do that, is your switchable graphics loading as well? If so, how did you get your time down that far?

 

Thanks for the reply and I was told the story you tell. I'm not saying it isn't true but one has to wonder why you would not want new drivers for the new chipset let alone a clear way of discovering which chipset one actually has. It does make it easier to mask a potential coverup with only those willing to inspect their chipset physically as you state be able to tell which chipset they truly have. Not wanting to risk it or take my machine apart I exercised my 21 day return privelige and paid for a second one and am awaiting delivery. I personally think that Intel SHOULD make it easy to identify ones actual chipset. How hard would it be to modify drivers for the new chipset if anything to simply identify stepping when functionally the drivers is the same. Gigabyte wrote a little program to help their customers identify whether or not they had the bad chipset so i know this is in the realm of possibility. why are Gigabyte customers given code to help identify defects and Intel and HP telling us that things can be mis-identified???? LOL I was trying to not get into this... I do have intermittent SATA port issues which may or may not be caused by B2 stepping.

 

Hwinfo can be deceiving though, mine says B2 as well. And I saw some alienwares that showed B2 until a biosupdate and then it showed B3. So I chose to take HP's word on the serialnumber.

 

Here is the results of the Crysis benchmark tool Full DX10 with all settings on high

5/4/2011 11:54:54 PM - Vista 64
Beginning Run #1 on Map-island, Demo-benchmark_gpu
DX10 1920x1080, AA=4x, Vsync=Disabled, 32 bit test, FullScreen
Demo Loops=3, Time Of Day= 9
Global Game Quality: Custom
Custom Quality Values:
VolumetricEffects=High
Texture=High
ObjectDetail=High
Sound=High
Shadows=High
Water=High
Physics=High
Particles=High
Shading=High
PostProcessing=High
GameEffects=High
==============================================================
TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 2000, Recorded Time: 111.86s)
!TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
Play Time: 87.67s, Average FPS: 22.81
Min FPS: 17.84 at frame 1971, Max FPS: 27.16 at frame 981
Average Tri/Sec: -19050096, Tri/Frame: -835067
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: -1.10
!TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
Play Time: 85.45s, Average FPS: 23.40
Min FPS: 17.84 at frame 1955, Max FPS: 27.46 at frame 989
Average Tri/Sec: -19225626, Tri/Frame: -821458
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: -1.12
!TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
Play Time: 85.35s, Average FPS: 23.43
Min FPS: 17.63 at frame 1959, Max FPS: 27.65 at frame 993
Average Tri/Sec: -19255914, Tri/Frame: -821725
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: -1.12
TimeDemo Play Ended, (3 Runs Performed)
==============================================================

Completed All Tests

<><><><><><><><><><><><><>>--SUMMARY--<<><><><><><><><><><><><><>

5/4/2011 11:54:54 PM - Vista 64

Run #1- DX10 1920x1080 AA=4x, 32 bit test, Quality: Custom ~~ Overall Average FPS: 23.415

 

Yeah when going nuts with overclocking the previous gen I7 on my desktop you can disable turbo mode and i have read with desktops where people turn off turbo mode and lock higher clocks for stability in gaming and high loads. LOL been lurking and watching and slowly trying to get my machine working as well. I have an ok desktop rig and don't really game on Envy but did manage a SSD swap going stock drive to SSD and copying os partition and boot partition then run Windows repair to patch/repair the boot partition. i know off topic but this thread is full of them.

It would be nice if we could dedicate and contribute to individual issues and create threads/topics rather than trying to read 300 plus pages to find info. That said I'm trying to read posts each day so I don't get more lost or behind

 

Bobmitch I would highly doubt 15 seconds as well. The HP bios takes almost that long to load.
I just timed mine (crucial c300 256gb system disk)

Bios load (turn on to Win7 starting up screen): 10 sec
Win 7 starting up screen to full loaded desktop: 27 sec
Total boot time 37.75 sec.

I am sure fiver5 can beet that by quite a bit. If it was him saying 15 seconds, I would have believed it (vertex 3 in raid)

 

My bad...bad estimate that is. I usually count during bootup. So lies might be a strong word...but here it is. I used a stop watch. Two different times, depending on boot order

When DVD rom first in boot order and HDD second...30 sec
When HDD first in boot order...23 seconds to desktop

 

Honestly...as I said..counting and using a stopwatch are two different things. I don't load a lot of things on startup...

With my DVD first in boot order...I turn on and get to desktop in 32...did it three times...then fixed boot order and knocked off about 8-9 sec

 

Probably just a Furmark bug. I seem to have no issues, but still need to stress it out some more. My processor stays at 800MHz and does not move when using furmark. 2630QM

So nobody cares about LCD scaling? Incredible! No wonder AMD dosen't bother to fix it...

 

2x Vertex 3's in raid 1? Now depending on the size of the SSD, we could be talking a 10-15 sec boot time.

Bios taking 15 seconds, slotti? Wow mine usually runs right past it...

 

Envy 17 3D SB finally arrived in stock here in New Zealand. Pity there is only one option and no customization here. We just get the 2630QM 8GB 2x1TB 5400 model here.

 

Crysis CPU benchmark

5/5/2011 12:22:25 AM - Vista 64
Beginning Run #1 on Map-island, Demo-benchmark_cpu
DX10 1920x1080, AA=No AA, Vsync=Disabled, 32 bit test, FullScreen
Demo Loops=3, Time Of Day= 9
Global Game Quality: Custom
Custom Quality Values:
VolumetricEffects=High
Texture=High
ObjectDetail=High
Sound=High
Shadows=High
Water=High
Physics=High
Particles=High
Shading=High
PostProcessing=High
GameEffects=High
==============================================================
TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 1500, Recorded Time: 44.62s)
!TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
Play Time: 61.15s, Average FPS: 24.53
Min FPS: 12.68 at frame 209, Max FPS: 35.17 at frame 101
Average Tri/Sec: 29280468, Tri/Frame: 1193685
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 0.60
!TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
Play Time: 58.83s, Average FPS: 25.50
Min FPS: 12.68 at frame 209, Max FPS: 36.15 at frame 111
Average Tri/Sec: 30542278, Tri/Frame: 1197780
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 0.60
!TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
Play Time: 58.72s, Average FPS: 25.55
Min FPS: 12.68 at frame 209, Max FPS: 36.22 at frame 110
Average Tri/Sec: 30528926, Tri/Frame: 1195021
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 0.60
TimeDemo Play Ended, (3 Runs Performed)
==============================================================

Completed All Tests

<><><><><><><><><><><><><>>--SUMMARY--<<><><><><><><><><><><><><>

5/5/2011 12:22:25 AM - Vista 64

Run #1- DX10 1920x1080 AA=No AA, 32 bit test, Quality: Custom ~~ Overall Average FPS: 25.525

Pretty wide range of fps...lowest when jumping on building and blowing up building across the way with multiple rocket explosions. Anyone...how to run windowed so i can monitor CPU???

 

You should be able to by heading to Options-> System settings -> graphics and unchecking Fullscreen. Also hitting Alt+enter may do the trick.

 

Has anyone tried Throttlestop to see if this affects the CPU throttling? There is some sandy bridge support but it may not have been tested well with it yet and apparantly some settings won't be changable.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardware-components-aftermarket-upgrades/531329-throttlestop-guide.html

 

I can get windowed mode...problem is it still covers up hwinfo32 monitor so I really can't see what is going on. Perhaps I'll try at a lower resolution

 

Wow, Dell are something else. Student discount is a measly 2%, and there's no coupons on Alienware m17 atm... No way I'm paying $2600 for that spaceship.

 

If I have a lot of things in my boot order DVD, External floppy both in order before my HDD...15 seconds is realistic. When I put the HDD first...is when I get the best speed. Under normal circumstances...I leave the BRDVD first in the order...

 

Dell has been overpriced for awhile. I had a Dell and moved to the Envy. It is a better machine (in theory) than most out there.

If you want that kind of machine...check out the different Asus G73-SW models. GTX460M, 2630M and one of the models comes with Nvidia 3D. Most expensive one I have seen is about $1939 and that is for the 3D. Two year warranty (depot service) and upon registration a one year accidental damage warranty. Check em out. That machine is every bit as nice as Alienware...

 

Well I've decided I have no use for 3D, so I'd rather have a nice dedicated GPU instead. Think I've used the 3D on my Envy once or twice, and it sucked (Tridef software is the worst I've ever seen, and on top of that, I can't register it since I formatted and deleted my recovery partition)

 

The Envy doesn't support Raid 1.

I have two Vertex 3 240's in Raid 0.


The last time I rebooted, my event log reported 34635ms. It used to be several seconds faster but I have some more services running now.

 

Yup, still have the DVD drive in front of the SSD. My CAD programs boot some sub standard dongle drivers on boot, so that is probably delaying my win 7 boot by rougly 5-8 seconds. My desktop appears after abour 20 seconds (but the little circle is still running till about 27 seconds).

 

Right my bad, I always confuse Raid 0 and Raid 1, it is really an annoying habit of mine.. Vertex 3 in Raid 0.

The person who measured 15 secs may have measured it from push button to seeing the desktop not waiting for all programs to finish loading.

 

I can't find the full specs on the ATI 6850m yet, but the 5850m, which is supposed to be close to the 6850, with GDDR5 memory is listed by AMD of consuming up to 39w (although the 5870 can consume up to 50w).

The 2820 that I'm waiting on can consume 45w, if I read the specs right.

So that totals about 84w between the CPU and GPU and the Envy 17 PSU is rated for 120w, right? What's a good guess on how much everything else consumes (screen, mother board, fan, etc)?

 

Has anyone been having issues with switching the graphics back to the 6850?

The screen works fine switching to the intel graphics, but when I switch it back (put the plug back in) to the 6850, the screen goes dead but everything else is fine. I end up having to reboot.

I've read and searched through this thread but couldn't find anything on this issue. I really love my Envy and this is the only hiccup I've encountered. Any advice for the newbie?

 

Dont worry, same here in Oz.

My plan was to contact HP and see if they would give the specs as per the US shop website and see if they would do it that way.

However, since i just got my laptop back from repairs (dv98154tx, graphics card died) i am going to hold off on the Envy 17 3D.

I have enjoyed reading this threat and glad to see people enjoying it and im sure it would suit me too, since i like flight simulator, reckon this would the ideal one for me since i tend to use my laptop more than the desktop at home.

Oh well, hopefully by end of the year i can get my hands on one.

 

One of the guys over at the Asus G73SW owners lounge was kind enough to check the throttling issue on his machine and it looks like it happens as well ...

 

Sorry for your problem.

I would stay away from OCZ due to their poor reliability. Can't afford a hard drive failure especially if it is my only/primary HDD. I'd rather go with a lower speed one but more reliable.

BTW: The X25-M 120GB was once on sale for $170 (2 months' ago) and the 510 series 120G is on sale now for $249.

 

What happens when you unplug it again after the screen goes dead (which would initiate it to switch back to the Intel)? Maybe you could manually switch it between the two before plugging it back in?

 

Are you using the original HP drivers? One thing to be mindful of. The ATI card refreshes at 120 HZ...the Intel at 60HZ. When switching back and forth on my Envy...I get a momentary black screen for two seconds...and it switches back and forth. Try re-installing the ATI / Intel Switchable graphics drivers again...for safety sake. In the SWSETUP folder on your HDD...then look for a folder called Drivers...then ATI_VGA1. Run the setup and choose express setup. Maybe you got the bad Windows Update drivers running...this will set you back to the working drivers. See if that works for you

 

Read that. Happens with Nvidia GTX460M as well. Blows my theory about ATI / AMD. Beginning to look like I am back to Intel's protection circuit as the possible culprit...or an anomoly in the Sandy Bridge chipset. It that is the case...the original Sandy Bridge bug has nothing on this one! Lots to read up on. Read this thread about i7...

Intel Core i7 Overclocking: 130 Watt Speed Limit - Madshrimps Forum Madness

Intel's take

Thermal Protection And Monitoring Features: A Software Perspective - Intel® Software Network

 

What laptop does Dell currently offer that compares to the Envy in style and thinness? 17 inches or more?

Cuz I looked at the 15R and 17R (new versions) and they look like the typical wedge shaped brick thick Dell laptops of the past...not really seeing how they can describe it as "stylish" on their website.

Anyways I'm glad you're happy with your Dell.

 

Plain and simple...they don't offer anything in the Envy class!!! No one does. Closest thing to it would be the XPS line or a Toshiba Qosmio...both are like carrying desktops around

 

I heard that the new XPS 17 SB is thinner than the previous XPS but haven't not seen one myself. Based on weight, it is not that heavier than envy to my knowledge (~ 8.5lbs)

 

Yeah, it looks a little goofy compared to the envy, about 1/4 inch thicker too. Pretty good battery life though, around 5 and a half hours on power saver with the 6 cell.

 

Just a random thought on "Throttling" issue. I shared with KJ already but thought it might make some sense for all of us. Earlier in the thread...I posted a few urls where you could read about Intel Thermal protection of a CPU and more. Based on the article and thread...I think two things happen. One...there is a thermal protection that will shut the machine down automatically, if the processor gets to a "dangerous" level. In addition, because these are laptops...I think that it is voltage induced as well. Now on to the thoughts I shared with Joe:

I am not sure there will be a fix for throttling, other than what desktop motherboard makers have done. In my desktop bios, I can disable speedstep. This in essence is what is happening to our chips. To conserve energy...speed step was instituted with the original dual core processors on laptops. On power, my Inspiron ran at 2.0 GHZ. On battery, the CPU was supposed to throttle down to 800 mhz...seems to be Intel's magic number. This was done for voltage and heat purposes...and to extend battery time. If this is truly what is going on...then HP would have to institute such a choice in our bios...now understand...HP is THAT conservative...I don't think they will buck Intel on this. If this becomes the case...think about all the software overclock programs that can be written to make our laptops faster...and dead over time. That is the problem...laptops are not nearly as overclockable as a desktop...that is where I now believe that the "throttling" we all experience is Intel induced!

I, like Crimsoned, intend to share this info with some techs in the hope that they can either explain it or if fixable...fix it! I really think that Intel is covering their collective butts on this issue. If the chip runs too hot and shuts down the machine...what potential thermal damage is done in such a small case. Better to throttle it down to the minimum than inflict damage...right? Well...that's Intel! How much money did they pay out over the "Pentium" snafu in the 90's. How much have the dished out to Digital Equipnment corporation, whom they had to buy out in order to survive. Seems that Digital had a chip called "Alpha" some years ago. Well Alpha became the "dual core, multithreaded processor" of today...ring a bell. Long and short of it...Intel purchases "Alpha" from Digital. Digital is then eaten up by, you guessed it, HP, who then turns around and purchases Compaq.

Long and short of it....and other posts from Asus members and others using a different chip prove that Throttling is in almost all Intel models. Now my son has an AMD Turion processor in his machine. It gets very hot, performs well and he as already replaced one motherboard. My suspicion is that Intel designs the "Throttling" to protect themselves, more than us. What we get is a machine that won't break down, and not be overclocked...what Intel gets is peace of mind that they won't have to dish out billions replacing blown motherboards and processors.

Just some thoughts to share...

What are your conclusions???

 

By the way, I posted in the Envy 17/3D first gen thread.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-...y-17-17-3d-1xxx-series-owners-lounge-614.html

Post # 6136

I asked them to help out with the throttle analysis and to run the tests Crimsoned suggests. I thought its a good idea to see the difference in performance between the first gen Envy 17/3D and the SB brother.

KJ

 

so i have been following this thread now for awhile.. getting ready to pull trigger... this is my set-up and deal im getting

envy 17 3d sb
2820 processor
8gb ram
dual 750gb 7500 hdd
$2158 price before discount

then adding ultimate pack
3yr care pack plus accidental
printer
external hard drive
$299

grand total is $2457+tax=$2657

after all said in done with discounts im paying
$1707.07 including tax... savings of $950.00

does it seem like a no brainer? think the machine is worth it...?

 

Bobmitch, you make a very good point about intel. Just a thought though....didn't Intel for one second considered the possiblity of people here on such forums testing the machines, stressing them out, seeing what their guts can do? Surely Intel did this before sending out chips to the manufactures...wouldn't Intel have known of "throttling" issues in these units or others being build? Maybe they know but figured the masses would be ignorant, and that forums with people like yourselves with skills, screaming and yelling about throttling......would perhaps have their concerns ignored, or just explained away?? I would hate to think the later....

As someone posted a few pages back about "Ignorance is Bliss." Then again, those ignorant would not have come up with the wheel, electricity, vaccines, airplanes, oh, and laptops! LOL

P.S. But hey, given all that above, I'm still loving the Envy...and naively hopeful for a fix one day. As mentioned, there is really nothing in its class as beautiful, really.

KJ

 

Hey, I'm curious if you can share what discounts you used to get this price? I ended up with a similar price, but you definitely got more than I did. Is this from HP USA? Thanks

 

Thermal controls for the processor would only kick in at very high temperature, we are talking past 100c and they would indeed produce a immediately block in power thus turning the machine off. I don't think Intel's own integrated thermal throttling kicks under 100c.
On top of that most thermal security is left up the manufacturer in terms of throttling via the bios's fan power management as well as critical shut down temperatures.

At this point I have two leads, both leads coinciding with my contact's two leads. Tomorrow I should be able to give some information.

 

I am trying to take this up the ladder as well. Let's stay at this and see what it brings...

Thanks

 

That is great! I am looking forward to hearing some updates from you Crimsoned (also asked the 1st Gen. Envy 17/3D people to help run the tests. I made a link to your your thread in theirs).

Bobmitch good luck on your end too. Perhaps tomorrow or the following week we shall see some news finally popping up. Thank you everyone here and at HP helping out. It is time consuming, and the efforts are appreciated, well, at least I'll be vocal about it.

KJ

 

So, what is the final word here? (Edit..just saw the update for tomorrow)

I am one of those "average users"....but I'm also fanatical when it comes to my cash. I have 10 days left before my DV6 I got back in January has to be returned....

In "real world" situations...how often will this happen?

I have a feeling that I won't run into an issue all that often...(I'm just another coppertop inside the Matrix...)...but I also get the feeling that for some...buying an Envy 17-3D is like buying an expensive new sports car with 400 HP...but finding out that it has a speed regulator at 100mph.

Most "normal drivers" will never go that fast...but for those who purchased it because of the power....it would be really disappointing.

 

Believe it or not, if I had to do it all over again, meaning ordering the Envy 17 3D SB, I would, yeah I may be a little crazy, but hey...to each his own. Again, I would only order it, if I received crazy discounts like I already have. If not, I would have quietly suffered with a dv7 from Costco...

As to your choice...well, you have to decide if the 1080p display and the backlit keyboard are important to you. Of course the better GPU, and other tweaks. If you feel you want those things, and can find coupons, I'd say wholeheartedly, go for the Envy 17 3D SB!!!!! Besides, you have 21 days once you get it to ship it back for free, so not much to lose.

KJ

 

Panthermark...

Very good point. I think in most cases...one might not notice anything. Some of us like to play...and when you do you find things. As the smoke clears, it is beginning to show...not just the Envy effected...other manufacturers and other chips.

 

So if you had to put a price tag on a fully loaded envy what would you say it would be worth (retail of course)...

 

Best comparisons

Dell XPS 3D and Asus G73SW3D. Go ahead and configure an Envy the way you want it. Configure an XPS and go to newegg and find the 3D Asus.

Dollar for Dollar...Envy has as good, if not better peripherals and should beat the other guys in price...

 

Here you go, a link to configure a new HP Envy 17 3D SB:

HP ENVY 17 3D series | HP Official Store

Fully loaded:

Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit with Service Pack 1
No Additional Office Software
2nd generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2820QM (2.3 GHz, 8MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 3.4 GHz
1GB GDDR5 Radeon(TM) HD 6850M Graphics [HDMI]
8GB 1333MHz DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
800GB 7200RPM Dual Hard Drive (SSD 160GB + 640GB 7200RPM)
30% OFF! One 6-Cell and One 9-Cell Lithium Ion Battery
17.3" diagonal Full HD HP 3D Ultra BrightView Infinity LED Display (1920x1080)
Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
HP TrueVision HD Webcam
Intel 802.11a/b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) with Wireless Display Support
Backlit Keyboard
Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 9 & Adobe Premiere(R) Elements 9
HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

Cost: $2,690.99 + tax = $2,879.36

Coupons would help. I configured it with Home Premium, if you need the higher Windows version, just configure it with on their page. Left care package out...etc... that is similar to what I got...minus coupons/discounts.

KJ

 

i see you got a good deal quite a few pages back.... is the ssd really worth the extra $600 hp wants?