HP Envy 14: Availabilty, etc.

That's been my point all along.

After the Mattel toy incident, everyone panicked and started jumping to the funny conclusion that all China-made products are dangerous. China is always everyone's favorite scapegoat, but at the end of the day, the fault for shoddy quality lies with the higher ups who go against the judgments of a few engineers who repeatedly insist it's not such a hot idea to use a weak silicone design for a notebook graphics card that's designed for gaming. You can try to do what Nvidia's CEO did which was pile the fault on contractors. The blame game gets old once the contractors shows diagrams and recorded correspondence showing Nvidia's management knew what they were doing when they instructed the contractors to use specific materials and go strictly by their schematics. Sure, Nvidia's CEO probably never had a word with their low-level workers. But the middle managers who supervise them most definitely were in constant contact with him.

 

I would honestly and seriously first take a look and actually use the Envy (or any laptop) before buying. Its good to know what your getting, and not make a decision based on assumptions and photos. I took my Envy 15 in to the Mac store (boyfriend was doing the free Mac class) and set it next to the new 15 i7 MBP. Man I do loooove my Envy! It clearly outclasses the MBP in aesthetics... it just looks finished where the bland and plain MBP looks like a pre-production product now.

... but.... and thats a big but.... the MBP is clearly the leader in touch pad technology. Wow, selecting text is smooth, scrolling is smooth, zooming is smooth, rotating is smooth.... no matter what program your in. You can do stuff in FF or Opera or Safari and Adobe CS5 with Macs touch pad that no Envy can do. The touch pad is a very important aspect of a laptop if your a mobile professional or student not wanting to depend on an external mouse. Having used laptops for almost a decade, I find an external mouse to be goofy while your mobile. It defeats the purpose... so go try the laptops out first, then by second!

BTW, all the MBP lookers at the Apple store loved my Envy... then they asked about battery life and they all left me.

 

Yeah, I really want to see the Envy 17 myself since it's very similar to the 14. But hey, 21 day return.

 

I gotcha... we're on the same page all along. I was agreeing with you and trying to point out that its up to designers to use better strategy and contractors to build better.... Envy 15 issues turned into bigger and worse Envy 17 issues! Materials and places dont matter that much in the long run if built properly with tight spec. My 4th Envy 15 proved that! lol

Now superior materials (which some of Envy's are like Mag and Alu) and superior construction would be the ultimate no hastle/problems (physically) dream. That part of Mac I do like. Everything else Mac... well there is a reason they are only 5% of the market! But they are growing rapidly because of their superior attention to build and detail... thats whats got HP licking its lips.

HP is for profit. Margins are the game. Apple overtook Microshaft for the top Tech company.... with humungous HP looking on sheepishly. Face it (HP did), HP got smoked, so they shot out Envy, and are trying to make Apple's magins work for them. Problem is they forgot how to build a better machine while also choosing not to copy the Aluminum uni-body construction process... which Apple did not invent! lol

 

Ouch.



Yeah. Fortunately, high battery life is what I'm willing to give up. But that damn touchpad issue...damn Apple for not lowering the price on the MBP 15 and damn Microsoft for refusing to make OneNote OSX-compatible. Hate running OneNote in VMWare/Boot Camp.

EDIT: And for heaven's sakes, curses upon Synaptics for taking so long to work on multitouch software. I seriously think 1 of 2 things should happen:

1) HP or Dell acquires Synaptic and takes a page from Apple by forcing Synaptics to drastically improve 2-finger scrolling. Scrybe still has problems!

2) All the PC industries acquire stakes in Synapics and collaborate on improving multitouch touchpads.

 

Battery life is key for myself as well. The Envy 15 will stay at home while the Envy 14 will stay in the car or at work. Thats why Im depending on HP's claim of 7 hours battery life.

Apple worked with Synaptics and just made the tech better. Apple is smart enough to invest and patent, so that Synaptics cant copy. When your a company that depends on innovation, you tend to actually create things and ideas... this is where Apple succeeds and why HP is just a big company. This is also why Apple can come form nowhere and change the landscape of electronics. Lets hope your 1 and 2 ideas come to frution! HP's problem is that they dont innovate much (but copy well) and Palm didnt almost die soon enough.... a fiscal Quarter earlier, and HP might have put Palms genious touch portfolio to work in the Envy. We will see this in the future... but I dont expect the Envy 14 touch pad to be any better than my Envy 15. You can take the Envy 17 users for a clue about the Envy 14's touch pad..... nothings changed at all.

When I wanna do crazy Photoshop and Illustrator design work, I use my boyfriends MBP... Adobe CS5 can do lots of cool thinks with Apple's MBP touch pad that Envy will never do. Thats why design professionals flock to Apple, and I give it to them... the user experience and the finger gestures in the Adobe CS5 suite really rock.... it makes me turn a blind eye to my Envy 15... lol!

 

You forgot 3. mind control

I guess I don't worry about it. I can't stand a trackpad any way you look at it. By the time I've used my notebook for over a year, the keys look well worn, but the trackpad like new. I use my handy VX Nano mouse. Even the best trackpad software I have not been able to use without frustration. I don't understand why for any serious work that you don't use a mouse. Using a trackpad is like putting a pair of vice grips on the steering column to replace your steering wheel... on purpose.

 

@ touchpads on mbps being vastly superior.


That's great, really is. But lets try and be a bit less sloppy and compare apples to apples.


How does their trackpad perform using the same browsers in windows, not osx?

Better?

The same?

Worse?


better, not likely

the same? If so, then that is a clear case of a better pad through some combination of hardware/software

Worse? If all you mbp godlike perfection trackpad types notice a fall off of performance within windows, what does that tell you?

begin thinking.

 

OK update on my buddy's Envy 17 he recieved today. I last told you Id try to take photos of it next to my 5 year old plastic HP. I brought some nice cold IPA and my laptop, and we unpacked his new machine.

First thing he did was set it on his glass kitchen table and we noticed it rocked forward on the front/right corner.

He then opened the lid, took out the paper and we noticed gap central. Wow! He has 2 massive gaps on the right side of his computer near the ports on the right side.

There is also something wrong with the left hinge, because it is sitting a fraction higher. He closed the lid to see if we could notice it better, and we did notice that the rubber lining around the screens perimeter did not come close to the body like the right side of the screen. Its like the hinge is off-setting the whole screen.

I quickly noticed his demeanor change, and asked if he'd mind me taking photos.... he said no, he was sending it back for a return. He was so furious that he called HP, packed it up right in front of me and put it in the trunk of his car! He's not even going to turn it on!!!

Sorry to get anyone's hopes up, but it looks as If I cannot provide pics. The bad thing is my buddy owns a business and was planning on purchasing around 75 Envy 17's. He's at the Mac store right now! HP just lost $11,000.00 from this guys business. Ouch!

 

Eh, $1400 x 75 = $105,000. Must have a nice business running.

 

Ha lol, i like your steering wheel analogy, but choice and ingenuitive interface features are nice. Although... have you used Adobe CS5 Suite with a Mac's touch pad? Our graphics and art department at work use MBP's and I can say, its just a fluid experience for manipulating media with the touch pad. The user envious14 mentioned this (along with multi touch support in Safari, Opera, and Firefox, which I have not tried yet), and I agree. It would take you 4-6 different clicks and key-strokes to duplicate the MBP's multi touch features with your traditional mouse, whether it be a mouse pad or external mouse...

I hear AutoCAD is coming back to Mac, if it does soon, Ill happily use these well though out features all day... but untill then no Mac for me. CAD all day sux on Macs bootcamp or VM.

 

Yikes my math! lol.

Yeah he owns a mobile advertising company. Can you imagine an ad guy with a A+ personality thats all excited to have the letdown of his first HP Envy 17. I saw all his energy drain from his face and shoulders. I really felt bad, and now kinda feel bad for asking to take photos comparing my old HP. He's knew I meant well, as he kinda laughed when he figured out what I was doing, and gave me this funny smirk! I feel bad for the guy.... cant imagine how many other duped Envy customers feel the same way. Just not good business to be ineffective at what you do... HP! Wake up!

 

I wasn't comparing the two though. That was an example of your line of thinking!

Don't be so dismissive of Apple users. Some people like OS X and are willing to pay the premium for it. They are willing to pay extra for what is in their mind a better user experience.

 

And that may be a specialized case, so go with a MBP if that's what you need. But for 99% of other apps, imho, any trackpad will do for basic manipulation if you have to go without a mouse. Personally, stick with a mouse.

 

That is true, user experience is very subjective. Some people are more than willing to pay 2x as much for a product that will maintain its durability over the years, while average glued and screwed pc will not last or even ship properly. Also, some folks like BSD (which OSX is built on) for its inherent security over Windows, or the integrated OS and multi touch features that work in most all Mac programs, or the slick UI. Personally I dont care for any of those things save the multi touch embedded in the system.... but more important is I like the idea of Envy 14's value... if it all comes together nicely that is!

So far thats a big IF!

 

Apples to apples? Apple doesn't even have 2010 MBP touchpad drivers available for Windows!

 

Well you can't dismiss the fact that Apple products are over-priced. They are. Even though the MacBook Pro may have a nice overall build quality, it isn't an $800 improvement any way you look at it. Everything else is common components.

I dunno. I've had several "glued and screwed" laptops for over 3 years, even more. I had a Sony Vaio that lasted 7 years and still sold it on eBay. I have a Vostro 1500 that's 3.5 years old and still going strong, just sold it to someone and isn't falling apart. Again, no doubt the feel of the MBP is solid, and quality is there, but still doesn't justify the 2x markup in any way. I just find it odd that die-hard Mac OS users support Apple and their outrageous prices instead of encouraging them to drop the prices.

 

Wow. I feel bad for him, and shame on HP for the fails.

 

Sure thing, I see your point, but computers arent only about basic manipulation any more. Even basic manipulation is aided with multi touch. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, as I know I can do so many things with 2-3-4 fingers with a Mac that cannot be done on any PC. When you get used to the basic and speedy interface multi touch provides, you'll think about why it took you so long to realize what every one else realizes. Fingers and the total abilities of various input gestures are more intuitive and faster than a mouse. There's a reason Envy, and ASUS, and Acer and Synaptics, etc. are copying Apple (again), people just like multi touch. HP had a good start with their attempt.... hopefully the next Envy XX will have a new click pad and more gestures... that work!

It makes sense.

 

Considering my past laptops and how I've put up with them, I'll probably accept my Envy 14 however it comes. I won't have time to RMA anyway, since I'll be returning to China shortly after it comes, so here's hoping the manufacturing flaws are specific to a select batch of 17's and the entity responsible has learned its lesson or been replaced for the 14's manufacture.

Incidentally, the part about your post that interested me most was the IPA - being from the hometown of the Sierra Nevada Brewing Company, I love a good, hoppy beer, and living in China for almost 11 months a year, I have almost no opportunities to drink one (last decent IPA, or beer in general, was a Brooklyn Bridge IPA in Kunming, but that's 2,000 km away from Wuhan, so no luck there). I guess it's just one more perk of summer vacation. Now if only Bigfoot weren't a winter seasonal...

 

Yet everyone says they aren't the same as Apple, so I'm confused. Until they do something that makes me WANT to use the touchpad over a mouse, I'll take the mouse. I've used a MBP with the touchpad and it didn't feel any different than what I've used on any normal Synaptics touchpad in Windows.

 

This really doesn't make any sense. The MBP was designed with OS X in mind, while Windows support was an afterthought.

How is this an apples to apples comparison?

If it performs worse in Windows, that just means that the driver support isn't there. You can't magically make a trackpad perform better than it actually is. You can't just program in physical properties.

 

My hope is the same as yours! Get errr done HP QC!

Oh yessss good taste you have. I know Asia has been fascinated with making American style whiskey... I thought they would do the IPA as well. Southern California is the best place in America for IPA's.... a number of brewers took the traditional IPA and tweaked it in San Diego breweries now... to the point that IPA's are so big and diverse that some folks dont really know the true origin of the specific iteration they are drinking. Ive lived all over the states and can easily say folks in SoCal really know their beer. Check out Lagunitas IPA... really push the envelope of designing that nice hopp. Karl Strauss is also a leader in changing IPA's... Happy travels!

 

I'm pretty sure they're identical stats because I ctrl+c'd and ctrl+v'd them from a post on a different thread than quoted it within this one. I copied it out of a Consumer Reports issue from a month or two ago.

 

Guess you didnt realize all the controlling features through OSX, Adobe CS5, or the multitude of programs that support multi touch and its various features. Id challenge you to go back and ask someone who knows what they are doing to show you some of the neat options. But then again, if you dont just realize some of the simple things it does that are self evident, multi touch or any touch pad might not be for you anyway. Thats why external mice exist.... some folks dont care to learn new features, or understand that there are new features without that "ah haaa" moment. People tend to like multi touch, I hope youve seen all it can do... if not, I hope and "ah haaa" moment comes your way.

PS Do you zoom a screen, big small, left right? How about rotating images, cutting pasting, switching your applications, fast multitasking... all with one hand in a simple movement. If your hand is meant to move with independence from your fingers if needed, how can one disregard a natural evolution of the traditional computer mouse.

I use multi touch with one hand, and drink beers with the other. I value both hands! Beer, type, beer click, beer key stroke. Ive got priorities Arnold! (love your pic BTW)!

 

My Vostro 1500 was dead just about a year after I purchased it. The battery pins on the motherboard had been bent all over the place because there was play on each side of the battery, the screen would go in and out depending on how you held it, I went through 4 AC adapters because they were so poorly designed (the cord frayed right where the cord meets the plug), and I had two batteries that were rendered unusable because of the bent motherboard pins.

The motherboard got replaced after the battery pins couldn't maintain a connection long enough to charge the battery, but other than that, nothing else got fixed by Dell.

It serves a good purpose as a makeshift desktop in my room though! An external display and a mouse/keyboard combo make that happen.

 

I haven't tried Lagnitas' IPA, though I can recommend their cappuccino stout. I think it's Japan that's into the American style Whiskey thing, there's tons of whiskey in China (drink of choice at every club in the country, with an emphasis on blended Scotch, always mixed with gobs of bottled green tea/juice/energy drink...), but its' all either real Western brands or counterfeit of Western brands. China's beer culture is relatively young and has very poor taste - they generally buy made-in-China Budweiser if they want a premium beer here, though there are places with good selections here and there, mostly in first-tier cities like Beijing and Shanghai, and mostly focused on German and Belgian beers, which are fine (or astounding, like the 2007 Gouden Carolus Cuvee Van de Keizer I found at a place that specializes in Belgians once), but hoppy beers are hard to find.

As for Southern California's IPA culture, how far do they go? Do they stop at regular IPA's or move on to doubles/imperials? I personally have a strong appreciation for Sierra Nevada's Torpedo - they call it a 1.5 IPA, but a less scrupulous brewer would call it a double by taste, and it's cheap in Chico, which is always a plus. Then there are the seasonal, fresh-hop Harvest releases - wow.

And to keep on-topic: Naysayers be danged, I'm buying an Envy 14 the day the customizer is open for business, and it's going to be a terrific piece of hardware.

 

Good priorities with the hands.

Personally, while I'm sure gestures would help decrease these problems somewhat, I've found touchpad computing to be too slow and imprecise for my own tastes. Obviously, this is a bigger issue with gaming than surfing the web, but if the touchpad slows you down when lining up a headshot, it's going to slow you down when selecting the submit button on a forum as well.

 

Quick question.


Let's say I buy the Envy 14 with an AMEX card and slap a 3-year SQ warranty on it. The AMEX card terms of service says it'll add another year to the manufacturer's warranty as long as it's less than 5 years. Will the AMEX card's extended warranty guarantee add an additional 1 year to the 3-year SQ warranty to make it 4 years, or do I end up with 2 years of manufacturer warranty overlapping with the 3-year SQ warranty?

 

Double and Triple India Pale Ale's originated in San Diego... Ive been to every brewery there! A company called Blind Pig made the first heavy IPA in the early 90's, and people flocked to SD to see how they did it and the IPA double IPA exploded from SD out to other areas in the US. SD's got 8-10 breweries that are known world wide for IPA's, especially Doubles ... go check it out. Off the top of my head, Balast, Alpine, Port, Green Flash, Stone, Oggi, Karl, ... to name a few. Happy hunting!

Im really hopeful too. I think its best I do not go over to the Envy 17 forum anymore... Im willing my good energy on the 14. lol. Cant wait for the reviews and initial units to ship! I know weve got fantastic friends here on this blog who will provide some early reviews. The following on the 17 forum is fantastic... folks provided lists of drivers with links and specific instructions of how to's. Theres links to youtube unboxings and all. Lets hope some of those 17 owners return their 2nd and 3rd units for Envy 14 that are made proper!

 

Still a metric ton of 2009 and previous versions of the mbp in the wild, people should have an answer as to whether the touch controls are identical in windows vs osx. If they are less than in windows, WITH versions of the mbp and windows where drivers are available, then that suggests to me that part of the differential in touch is windows itself. How much is that vs a lesser pad/drivers, who knows, but people keep throwing out trackpad inferiority as an Achilles heel.

 

I had a 3 year old Sony HDTV and AMEX extended my warranty beyond my warranty. There may be conditions, so Id check. My past relations with AMEX pretty much makes them say yes... so I may have gotten lucky, but if you put 6 digits on a card every year, they do tend to bend over for good customers.

 

Windows does not support Apple's multi touch fully. Its Apple, they own patents and dont license to Microsoft. Bootcamp is provided by Mac to ease the transition from PC to Mac. Apple does not fully support Windows, and that sux. While using Win 7 on Mac, its definitely not as smooth scrolling either. Go to a Apple store and test. They generally have a machine with either Bootcamp or VM.

 

Bro, droid more or less nailed it on the head.


You can't just judge how good Apple's touchpad is based on how well Apple's touchpad works in a Windows environment. Steve Jobs clearly doesn't seem to give a rat's arse about how well Windows operates in boot camp environment aside from the Mac's being able to run basic programs such as Office and the like. There aren't any native touchpad drivers for Windows. Making such a comparison in spite of this fact is like comparing the looks and aesthetics of two cars while one car's entire aluminum exterior casing is removed!


If you really want to know how nicely the touchpad operates, borrow a Macbook Pro for a week from a friend and compare how well the gestures and two-finger scrolling work to a notebook PC with similar gestures. I don't know about you, but after giving it all my patience, I got frustrated with Synaptic's two-finger scrolling. Even at lowest speed settings, the scrolling jumps around too much!


Put the Macbook and the Windows PC (in this case, an HP Envy) in test runs. Go to reedit or Digg.com and see how well you're able to scroll up and down articles. See how well the click n' drag and the photo rotate gestures fly. Within 5 minutes, if you're like me, you'll fall in love with the inertial scrolling. It's just that nice!

 

Ok. I've confirmed via a blog that buying HP's 3-year warranty would extend it to 4 years (Still sent AMEX an e-mail to confirm). But what about if I were to buy Squaretrade's warranty?

 

I believe it is the original manufacturer's warranty that it will extend, not a 3rd party warranty.

See #1:

https://www212.americanexpress.com/...CRD&name=buyersassurance_ccsg_faq&type=intfaq

 

Hmm....so confusing!

One Amazon.com review for a Squaretrade warranty:

Argg! Looks like if i don't get a reply to my e-mail to them, it's time to call 'em!

EDIT: Looks to me like it's not a Costco warranty as much as it's just the manufacturer's warranty being automatically extended to two years. Guess the AMEX warranty makes sense.

 

That conclusion is supported by the wording of your first post on the matter as well. Since SquareTrade is not the manufacturer, it seems unlikely that a SquareTrade warranty would be supported by amex's warranty-extension program.

 

Just got back from a friend that got his envy 17 today. The workmanship on his unit are sloppy at best. the unit wobbles, the hinges aren't smooth operating at all, and 2 of his ports aren't even flush. He said he's sending it back tomorrow and has already ordered an asus. I must admit, any chance of me throwing money down a new hp just went straight to zero after seeing the workmanship of the envy 17. I have seen an Envy 15 and can tell you the build quality is superior to the 17 by quite a bit. I guess the brightside is that I will get to fiddle with a sweet asus in a few days.
Looking at the unit first hand it is painfully obvious why these aren't in the hands of reviewers.

 

It seems to me the Envy 15 (2nd Gen) was a PR stunt to shore up on their image. Wonder why they didn't take any lessons from the 1st Gen fiasco and apply them to the Envy 17.

 

i just processed the return of my DM4. it's great, but the speakers are definitely lacking. i'm going to purchase the envy 14...hopefully the envy's beats speakers work better.

are you sure you're not confusing the Blind Pig IPA from Russian River Brewing? they're from Sonoma, so NorCal wins.

btw, imperial stouts >>> IPA

 

Thats tough. I keep hearing this exact thought on many different websites and user forums pertaining to the Envy 17. I dont feel good about paying good money for being a beta tester. My buddy's Envy 17's right side had terrible gaps by the ports as well. Do you know if your friends wobbled on the front right side? Ive seen about 15 different reviews about this specific issue so Im curious.

I think this is the reason there is a long delay on Envy 17's ( a HP customer rep stated this as well.), as HP finally woke an assembly line manager up to do his job correctly.

 

No idea. I have used an Envy 15 (2nd gen) many times before and it's a beast. From what I've seen of the 17, not so much. I really don't see how hard it would be to just improve the 15, but evidently it is. HP should look up flagship because apparently they haven't a clue.

 

Hmmm... Im not 100%, but I do know they showed in SD, then the bewmaster went to work in SD after Blind Pig died. From there many associates of Blind Pig scattered throughout Cali, but the vast majority are in SoCal. Ive never been to a city where I could taste 8 Double IPA's at 8 different breweries in 1 day! I was toasty! I live in SF now, so Im hitting up all the spots. Sonoma soon! PS I do also love stouts!

Back on topic: I believe you guys are correct about not extending from Square Trade... they are (in this instance) a competitor to HP, so I dont see AMEX honoring. But who knows... good relationships can break rules for the better!

 

Yep, definitely the right side. It wasn't just a slight wobble either, it was terrible.

 

OUCH! But alas... I think you are both correct.

 

Well, Im sorry for his issues, but am glad it was the right side. At lease all the Envy 17's have similar problems, unlike the Envy 15 which was all over the place.

Oddly enough, the duplicity of the problems the Envy 17 is facing could be a blessing in disguise for Envy 17 owners 3rd and 4th replacement models! lol

I hope this wakes HP up and we get quality Envy 14's... the first time.

 

maybe it was a bad batch of envy17 chassises that QC missed?

 

Could be, but with hps track record I wouldn't put my money on that.

 

yeah but if the 14 is a bust my only other choice is the mythical Asus G53 Switchable Graphics edition.