*HP Envy 15 (11XX / 12XX series) Owners Lounge!*

HP has to make those decisions based on how they think their target market will behave. Yeah, we might be able to buy RAM for 1/3 of what they're charging, but even if all the forum users here who have an Envy 15 did so, most people who buy the Envy aren't going to upgrade anything on it themselves (particularly not the i5 MB with the 2nd slot under the keyboard). They're not going to swap the disk out either.

Also, HP does have to make a profit on this stuff somehow, particularly with everybody here (myself included) finding coupons at light speed and getting $$$ taken off for HP's various screw-ups. Maybe the $100 difference on the Micron RAM goes into their Stressed Out Customer Service Rep Fund.

They charge what they think the market will bear. I suspect that's based on what their competitors are charging for similar upgrades and the spot that the Envy holds in the line-up -- for example, the minute Dell or Asus or anyone at all has a notebook to compete with the Envy, you'll probably see some of those options getting more competitive either in cost or features.

But for the time being, they know that most of us will complain about our G1s but probably won't send the whole thing back over it. Some people will (and some here did) but unless you were very close to buying a different notebook anyway, your choice right now for light & powerful with a current-gen GPU is the Envy, and they know it.

We'll grumble again when the 3rd gen Envy comes out and has even shinier bells and whistles. That's always how it goes.

I really like the deal I got and what I paid for it, though.

 

You need to learn about marketing, OEM manufacturing and purchasing.

Memory a commodity product, HP could not keep up with the wild swings in market prices and most consumers are not aware enough to know they are paying to much. Look at Apple, $600 for 8GB upgrade, and most other PC makers charge excessive prices for memory. Whatever price the market will bear.

With the SSD options they are adding a significant increase in profit margin if they get someone to choose the upgrade. If they price it to high they won't sell many upgrades. I guarantee they have structured their pricing very carefully to maximize profit margin.

You may be correct about the G1 SSD's to a point, HP likely made a large commitment initially to intel and there is (was) a lot of product in the pipeline, but, the G2's now cost much less to manufacter than G1's and will be much lower priced for OEM's and consumers as demand increases and prices drop. Continuing production of G1's makes absolutely no sense for either party.

 

Then is it worth to update to hdd + ssd, or it is better to buy one with 500 gb and add the ssd for yourself?
In the option hdd + ssd, they give u two 1.8" drives or the ssd is 1.8" and the hdd is 2.5"?

 

On the subject of SSDs and bleeding edge tech the supply chain is somewhat unpredictable. The vendor competition on SSDs is boiling up so Intel is not the only show in town. I've been benchmarking a Micron SSD which is the 1st Gen of the Intel/Micron partnership for NAND cells and the only Sata III SSD currently. Intel is poised to introduce the nextgen 25nm Flash probably in the 3rd quarter which should up the capacity and lower the cost.

 

There is only space for 1 - 2.5" drive or 2 - 1.8" drives. I think your most cost effective option is to order the SSD + HDD or 2 x SSD option direct from HP. If you get the single 2.5" HDD then you have to buy a 1.8" HDD from HP (at a premium) in order to get the prorper mounting bracket and cables to install 2--1.8" drives plus a second 1.8" drive to complete the 2 drive system, and you end up with the original internal 2.5" drive to find a home for.

 

Ordered my envy today! Ship date 4/12 (my birthday!)

i5-430m, dual SSD, 1080 anti-glare

Are they currently shipping with g1 or g2 x18-m ssds?

Also, is the ram shipping with 1333?

Anything I should look out for/check to make sure everything is OK? I've read about some creaks, screen light bleeding, some fan noises, etc.

Thank you for addressing my stupidity, as this thread is awful difficult to navigate and search with as many pages as there are.

 

what gen of SSD you get is random at the moment, until they run out of G1's.

i5 only supports 1066 mhz RAM so even if you put faster sticks in (like JJB, but he was saving money) they'll be running at 1066.

at idle, the i5 should be whisper quiet and the only creaking should be at the very edge of the palmrest corners if you press with your thumbs. any other evident build flaws will not be in the norm.
also, if it doesn't seem to be flat on the table, make sure the rubber feet are properly placed.

 

Whats up with the RED user names??

 

Is it an option to buy these rubber stickers?? I cant find them on HP Parts surfer. mmmmmmmmm

 

For somebody who's an "expert" about marketing, OEM manufacturing and purchasing, you seem to forget the basic fact that SSD's are just a bunch of FLASH MEMORY CHIPS in metal case with a controller and are a COMMODITY, but you are adamant that they are not COMMODITIES like DRAM. Flash memory prices go up and down all the time, not as badly as DRAM, but definitely they are volatile.

You have as much inside knowledge into how HP prices upgrades as I do, which is pretty much all speculation from outside looking in. It's just my opinion that HP would never price an SSD upgrade less than the MSRP of the SSD's, let alone 25% less.

 

If HP was charging MSRP for the SSDs, two of them would cost more than the $450 or whatever it is they're asking.

As for 'just a bunch of flash memory chips with a controller,' that's a bit disingenuous. It's quite a lot of flash memory and the controller is a pretty critical piece. They also occupy a premium market niche as opposed to regular DRAM which is pretty much a commodity (even if there's still a cheapo/mainstream/premium spread) and so they'll be a little less responsive to market fluctuations and better able to command high prices.

I suspect that a good chunk of the profit margin is built right in to the base price of the Envy, or else you'd never see things like $450 off coupons unless they just weren't selling at all. Obviously they're going to make a bit extra on the options, but if they just had an 1800 use coupon that you could use on a stock model with only one upgraded option, then their margins on the base machine are pretty big or else we really are the only people who were buying them.

 

Please help. I just did a fresh install of Windows 7 64-bit on my Envy 15. I installed all the drivers listed on the Latest Drivers: HP Envy 15 thread

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=426181

However, in the Device Manager, I still have an Unknown Device showing up under "Other Devices".

Does anyone know what I driver I need to install for this Unknown Device? Thank you.

 

The question is 'what's not working?'

Have you tested the webcam, LAN, bluetooth, sound, SD slot, and the GPU?

If all those things work...who cares what it is?

 

After doing some quick research, I believe the "Unknown Device" I'm getting is because I haven't installed a "HP Mobile Data Protection Sensor" driver.


EDIT: Confirmed. I installed the driver for HP 3D DriveGuard (which is basically the new name for the HP Mobile Data Protection sensor).

Can someone tell me if this DriveGuard is useful or not? Thanks.

 

Driveguard is useful is you have a mechanical disk. It tries to detect sudden motion (whoops, dropped it) as well as a static charge, and in the event that it does, it disables the hard drive to try and avoid damaging it.

If you have only SSDs, it's useless.

 

static charges too? and what can it do to protect from those? faraday cage around the disk?

 

I guess they just figure that whatever happens, it will be better if they cut power to the disk first. I have no idea what the real-world benefit is...nor will I, since I only have SSDs.

 

I spent 15 years as an OEM manufacturers representative selling electronic components, HP was my largest customer most of those years. So, no offense, but I have a bit more knowlege of the workings of large OEM's than the average person.

SSD's use a NAND flash memory and as a finished product they are not a commodity item (yet). SSD's are a premium high performance product that is not a required feature on any product. With a limited number of manufacturers, a premium price point and little competition they are, by definition, not commodities.

Your last paragraph makes no sense ?? "It's just my opinion that HP would never price an SSD upgrade less than the MSRP of the SSD's, let alone 25% less"

Well, News Flash -- HP is pricing SSD upgrades for much less than MSRP, and not just on our model! Look at the upgrade pricing on any notebooks that have the option. The Envy 13 for example has a $200 upgrade for a 160GB SSD that retails for ~$430. You can do your own math but even accounting for the HDD they remove your still at well under 25% below MSRP.

As I said earlier, HP still makes a significant profit margin on the SSD upgrades and they use careful market planning on how to price their options.

 

Thanks for figuring that out I've had the 'unknown device' since a clean install and gave up trying to figure out what it was. Now it won't bug me every time I open Device Manager.

 

Red? What Red? you need to adjust your colors. LOL

The rubber feet are part of one of the hardware kits that has the screws etc. for like $50+ it is listed on the Envy 1100 CTO parts page (not the surfer). I even tried calling CS and tech support for replacements but that is the only option so far.

 

You're welcome.

It's the least I could do after all the help you've generously provided to me. Thank you again for all your help.

 

Its that ICC profile that you gave me earlier Heck I cant even see the names now.

 

I guess with the accelerometer sensor you can get the speed of your laptop as its dropping from a skyscraper :lol. Now all we need is a GPS to track the laptop as its dropping to its death.

Only really useful for the mechanical drive but a lot of drive manufacturers have them built into the drive anyways.

 

any possibility that the envy 15 chassis will fit a 2.5" HDD with 12.5mm height? (9.5mm is standard height)

 

No way since the whole lower chassy is under 5/8" thick (on the outside).

 

we seem to be using the same profile then I saw the names RED too earlier today and now I can't see them.

 

It's something with the forum. I can't see them on my desktop.

 

Yeah someone is palying around with the user names, as I reloaded a page it went from red to burgundy then later to bold and now bold / black...

 

for those of you worried about a lack of trim support in raid. there are programs like perfect disk which are built to support smart placement with SSD's specifically in mind. I have mine setup to support that and when the computer is idle it runs in the background and basically does the very same thing as what trim does. and i back up my system to a nas, so drive failure simply isn't a concern.

 

Check your system clock

 

You mean the date? Not much of an April fools joke if that's what you mean..... You'd think these guys could come up with something like dyslexic keyboard responses, now that would be funny...

 

TRIM lowers write amplification (re-writing blocks of 128K when parts of the block are actually empty). But the old Intel SSDs don't know which blocks are empty.

That program just wears out the drive even faster!

 

@Lepton

I don't disagree with you but you also have to look at real world usage. In reality you're never going to 'wear out' an intel MLC SSD. They are rated for a minimum of 10,000 write cycles before they may begin to fail. So even if you completely wrote and erased every block on a drive once a day your looking at 27+ years before you have issues. If you plan on doing massive numbers of write cycles (like servers) then you should select an X25-E series with a 100,000 write cycle rating.

I am sure I will have many generations of new products (PC's) and probably new storage technology (that has not even been thought of yet) long before my SSD's have any wear issues. I don't think I own a single piece of computer electronics that is over 7 years old.

Edit: Just checked my wear level in the intel toolbox and after 2+ months of very heavy usage on my primary drive I am still at 0% wear level. So even if I call it 1% wear I still have 16+ more years of heavy usage before I need to worry, I can live with that

 

I see the merit in people's argument about G1 vs. G2. But this isn't about that.

High-end HP laptops are being used as a vehicle to dump old stock. We don't want the old and busted in our new toys... bring on the new hotness!

And my G1 (which has taken a beating) is already writing at less than half the speed of the G2. So while the MTBF numbers are impressive they do not reflect the "usable life" of a drive.

Sometimes I think there's just a bunch of HP employees on here...

 

@lepton

The point I was making is the programs like 'perfect disk' will not excessively wear an intel G1 MLC SSD. It sounds like you need to use it or some other app to clean up your G1 if it really has lost 50% of its speed, that is not normal.

FYI: MTBF has nothing to do with write cycle ratings, it is the amount of operating time , on average, before the device will fail. Intel SSDs have a 1.2 million hour MTBF (or 106 years), don't think we need to worry about that

 

Well I just ordered using the 450$ coupon. I was looking at Dell's Adamo, but for 100$ more, I get a much beefier notebook, better screen, and not much of a weight increase.

 

Not to mention CPU and GPU performance that will crush any Adamo many times over.

Congrats.

 

I get it now... Intel can give a ridiculous number like 106 years because that's measured without I/O activity! If you dig around the manual it states that the "minimum usable life" is really around 5 years...

I'm willing to bet that without TRIM and the effects of write amplification that the G1 has less than 50% the usable life of the G2. It might still be "many years", but I'd rather have "twice that many years" myself.

 

@lepton

You kind of got it. MTBF ratings are a standardized test method originated by the good old US military. It is now used by almost all component product manufacturers and OEM customers to specify an overall MTBF rating for the final product. Most large customers of servers, for example, specify a minimum MTBF for storage devices. Same is true for 747 jumbo jets. It's not just some gimmick that intel uses to mislead you.

Could you please point me to the manual that states the info about 'minimum usable life' of 5 years ??

I've never heard anything about that and intel is very anal about specifications I can't believe they would just state that without a whole lot of specifics on usage levels and test data.

 

thanks. at 1050$ shipped, there is nothing on the market that can match this Envy period.

I got the base model plus the glossy 1080P model.

 

Anyone has experienced wifi problems after an hibernation? I did one before and after this my envy doesn't find any wifi spot. It looks fine in device manager. I don't know how to fix this thing, I have reinstalled the drivers, removed the battery disabled and enabled adapter and nothing works.

 

For any who care, here's an option for protecting your Envy 15 keyboard: take a silicone (or TPU) keyboard cover from an DV7/DV8/HDX16/HDX18, and chop off the four right-most columns. Near-perfect fit. Good way to keep dirt/dust/liquids out of the cracks for under $5. Note that there are currently no custom-fit Envy15 covers on the market.

 

How long do you predict an Envy 15 will last you?
1 - 2 years? less?

 

imho, hardware failures aside, I don't see why the envy's raw performance won't be able to keep us working and gaming well into even the next gen of consoles. worst case scenario, we'll have to play at 720p. so I'm looking at about 3-4 years.

Also, metal chassis shouldn't get washed out and dirty like plastic does..can MBP owners confirm this?

 

yikes, look at those F buttons and the arrows...
I only see this as a solution if you're a heavy smoker with the bad habit of letting ash drop on the keyboard.
I'll be all ears when one tailored for the envy 15 comes out though. the problem with this sort of niche machine, of course, is bad third party support, including accessories...

 

you might want to look into perfect disk. the nicest way i can say this is you're wrong. the program was built specifically with SSD's in mind and does not wear the drive out faster.

http://www.perfectdisk.com/support/kb/791

 

Do you / would you guys use PerfectDisk with the G1s in the Envy?

 

i'm not trying to be lazy - i haven't read all 300+ pages here, but in skimming through, i noticed the envy15 (w/ core i5) doesn't have switchable graphics. is it possible, say through a future software update? or is it wired in such a way to not be able to support it?

i'm highly interested in this, but i'm concerned about battery life. does anyone have info on battery life for 6cell + 9cell slice? hp lists 6hrs on thier website...is it really 6hrs? i can get over no switchable graphics if it is.

thanks, in advance, for any help.

 

With the slice, yes, 6-7 hours is doable on the i5, though the slice is quite heavy (about 2 lbs). Some here would suggest that you just get a spare 6-cell (0.8 lbs) though that has the disadvantage of being two distinct batteries and thus requiring that you swap them out. I actually have a spare 6-cell that I got new from HP and won't use that I could sell, but if you haven't ordered yet you may as well get it from them.

I don't think switchable graphics is something they could enable via software but I don't know for an absolute certainty. Seems to me that they would've advertised it that way since that would be a big plus - I think that ATI just doesn't really have a great switchable graphics solution yet.

The 5830 doesn't draw much at idle and down-clocks when running on battery (you can control this behavior from the control panel) so switchable graphics wouldn't be a huge improvement.

 

@bubzers

With i5 540M I can get 2:30 to 3:00 on the 6 cell (53Wh) depending on settings and with the 9 cell (93Wh) slice up to 7hrs or so.

The 'benchmarks' thread has more details: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=453084

EDIT: correcting above post the Slice weighs 2.7 Lbs so whole system is 8 lbs with slice attached.

Switchable graphics is not possible on the Envy 15, it uses the PM55 chipset which physically cannot support switchable graphics.