*HP Envy 15 Owners Lounge! PART 1*

Does the Envy 13 power adapter work with the Envy 15?

 

I guess some of you missed the entire point.

He basically said "the battery can't power the cpu as it doesn't have enough watts".

Yeah. Ok.

If I need to explain how wrong that is, well....

 

We should not be completely relying on what FredFrenzy is saying..

I know this probably could be true for now but wouldn't RAM prices decrease later and therefore wouldn't it best to order the most minimum possible (unless you need 6+ immediately) and then add them yourself when the prices drop?

 

No it's a smaller connector on the 13's adapter.

I ordered the 'slim 65W travel adapter' to try with the i5. Should be sufficient to charge the 2 6cells I plan to use when travelling. Not sure about what will happen when plugged in and using full capabilities -- will advise once I find out.

 

thats my plan fo sho

 

5830 HP Envy 15 support page is up:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...us&dlc=en&submit.y=0&submit.x=0&lang=en&cc=us

The User Guide is dated December 2009.

 

Not to argue but 'fred' may be correct. If the max power draw is really 110W there could be a severe Voltage drop on the battery, depends on how they set up voltage regulation when on battery, could be why the AC adapter is rated at 19V which is much higher voltage than needed to charge an 11.1V battery.

 

What about this statement:

What will that mean for the 5830?

Also what SSDs do they use in Envy's?

 

It actually seems like you're the one who needs some explaining to. A Wh is NOT the same as a Watt. A watt is an instantaneous measure of energy. A Watt-hour is a unit measure of energy. Kinda like how 5 gallons/minute is a rate (watt), but water is still measured in gallons. You can have 1 gallon of water flowing at 5 gallons per minute, and it'll be done in 1/5th of a minute. You could also have that same gallon of water limited 1/2 gallon per minute by the size of the pipe it's flowing through, and it would take 2 minutes to flow.

The power from the wall doesn't go through the battery to get to the machine. The battery's connections and cells may very well have a limited discharge rate (aka, wattage, aka size of the pipe), and therefore they have to dial things down when running only off the battery power to keep from exploding or burning out connections.

 

It means I might be exchanging my i5 version for an i7. If the 5830 is seriously crippled by those transfer rates, it won't be worth the extra power saved by the i5 integrated graphics.

 

Nothing.

THe card is too slow for it to matter.

 

Right.

I know the difference. Did you read my post?

Are you Fred?

Sorry, but I know enough about power to realize he doesn't know what he's talking about.

If my M17x could power a very hungry, overclocked QX9300 ON BATTERY, there is not reason to believe a lower wattage part couldn't be powered via 11.1 volts (or whatever the battery voltage is).

This is just unheared of.

I guess I am spoiled from the Alienware section as folks over there know stuff about computers, and I don't need to explain things to them. Coming here is like pulling teeth

 

Really, could you direct me to some websites / sources to prove that?

Not that I don't believe you

 

I did. And I read everything he said. And nothing he said is technically incoherent... I don't know the exact numbers, though. He said the battery can supply, at most, 52W. Remember, this Envy is a relatively slimline laptop, so the connectors are likely not as beefy, and the battery is much flatter and spread out so it can't just dump all the current to a conductor. Just the GPU (15W) + the CPU(35W) in an i5 would hit that, and then you have the screen, the drives, the RAM, the rest of the motherboard, USB power for devices, and so on on top of it. I can easily see why they'd limit the speed of the CPU and GPU if the battery can only pump 52W. And then he states that the machine running full out can take 110W, so you start to see where a 120W adapter is necessary... it really all seems to jive.

The wattage of the battery has nothing whatsoever to do with the Wh, the mAh, or anything that's typically listed about a battery. I really, honestly, do not have a clue what you're talking about. I minored in Engineering and took a number of electronics classes, but it's always possible I'm wrong. Tell me, what did he say that doesn't make sense?

Edit: Your Alienware M17x was 16.1"x12.6"x2.1". This Envy is 14.96"x9.6"x1.04" You could fit two Envy's with room to spare inside the footprint of an M17x. Why do you doubt that there are limitations to how much power can pump through such a tight design?

 

I majored in engineering and you know whats up.

 

I second your reply and agree completely.

 

I don't think anyone has ever really bothered to do the benchmarks. But think about it, when you have SLI or Crossfire, you cut the bandwidthe in half but the cards still work just fine.

 

Well that's not entirely true but I see what you're saying.

What do they mean by "add-on GPUs will be limited to first-gen transfer rates" though? What were first-gen transfer rates and how do they compare to current-gen?

 

I will assume that by "first-gen" they mean PCIe 1.0, but this is the only article that mentions that. The difference between PCIe 1.0 and 2.0 is doubled data transfer rate.

 

Nothing.
ATI mobile cards can barely saturate 4x PCIE 1.0 connection. For proof look at the DIY VIDock thread in the Gaming forum here on notebookreview.

 

Batteries do have a maximum current that they can supply at any point. If I'm calculating this correctly, if the system is pulling 4.68 amps from an 11.1V battery that'd be 52 watts. I'm not familiar with lithium-ion battery technologies, but it's possible that this is the maximum that can be safely supplied by the battery without risking premature battery failure or overheating. This does seem a bit low, however.

Edit: Nevermind... I see this has already been hashed out.

 

But they state "Arrandale’s integrated PCIe 2.0 controller" but with first-gen transfer rates in which case why not just call it a PCIe 1.0 controller?!

Has anyone tested a 5000 mobility? If not I'm sure the figures can be scaled.

 

Think of it this way:

Imagine the battery is big tank of fuel.

A watt-hour is a measure of how much fuel is stored that tank.
Example: 100 gallons of fuel are inside that tank.

A watt is a measure of how quickly you can pump fuel out of that tank.
Example: The pump attached to the tank can only suck out 1 gallon every minute from that tank.

So if the HP guy says the battery was only designed to output 52 watts, that has nothing to do with how many watt-hours the battery is designed to hold.

Edit: Beaten, I should know better than to respond before reading the whole thread.

 

It's possible that the 2.0 rates apply to the integrated GPU, and the external bus only gets 1.0 rates. So it's still a "2.0" controller, just limited in all important aspects. Probably an artificial divider between the i7's and the i5's.

 

I had been hoping that they (HP) were going to attempt to solve the ENVY BIOS issue regarding the multiplier. I personally think that by not giving the public a computer that claims the minimum speed of 1.6ghz is like selling a Chevy Corvette with an Aveo engine. It's false and a bad business practice.

BTW I am running Windows 7 Ult on a HP TX2120US tablet - 2.2 AMD TURION 64 - NVidia Go 6150 - 4GB DDR2 RAM

 

Can anyone tell me the box weight of a Envy 15? I want to order one from one, and want to use one of those mail redirection firms, but they need a weight.

 

Just a heads up for all those who are considering re-ordering an i7 system, the coupon code is no longer registering as valid (or even expired) to the CSRs. The coupon may still be applied--they place you on hold to inquire as to validity and to request authorization--but I wouldn't count on this particular discount being around for much longer.

I might suggest ordering soon if you're unsure but have sufficient available credit. It wouldn't be shipped till around the 25th anyway, so you'll be free to parse through this newly available information and decide while knowing you locked in the substantial price reduction.

 

I agree. But from the discussion about the battery wattage above it all suddenly makes sense... the CPU can't go faster because the battery just can't provide that kind of power. The only thing I would want to have fixed is that it can actually eat MORE battery power if they throttle it to a constant multiplier instead of just setting a maximum. I'm not sure how feasible that is, though.

 

Maybe so, but to my understanding other laptops with i7's aren't having these types of issues and maybe I am not understanding this correctly but the power output on the i7 with the Envy isn't coming down even though the multiplier is locked.

Has anyone else heard this?

 

about the transfer rates, someone did a test with a pretty modern desktop card- I think it was the 4890 or something, and he artificially limited the rate of the pci-e bus. it was full 16x, 8x, 4x, 2x, and 1x. He then ran the same benchmark on each one of those. Going from 16x to 8x yielded something like a 1-2% change, well within statistical error. Going down to 2x, there became a more significant difference of something like 10%. Overall, the bus doesn't matter that much, unless maybe if you're running multiple GPUs.

Sorry I don't have the source of this info- I read it a couple months back.

 

My Inspiron 9300 could draw even more power than the Envy, and I never had any problems maxing out my CPU and GPU when on battery power. It was only limited when you were sing a less than 130w adapter, because the 65/90w adapters couldnt handle it. The battery itself though worked just gine. Sure, it only lasted for 45 minutes of gaming, but nevertheless it did work.

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-scaling-analysis,1572-8.html

Tom's Hardware is a little dodgy any more, sometimes inflated benchmarks and such, but this bit seems fairly on the money, if using old GPUs. Can't find anything on new ones.

Edit: Nevermind. Found it: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-2.0,1915-4.html Looks like there's not a lot to worry about.

 

The 9300 is also almost as wide, 2" deeper and almost an inch taller than the Envy Not to mention an extra 2.5lbs of... something. Again, the battery connections matter a lot when determining what kind of wattage a battery can provide. The slimmer Envy is likely limited where the 9300 and the big ol' Alienware machines aren't. Not to mention the Pentium M's in your 9300 maxed at 27W. The i5 is 35W and the i7 is 45W.

 

Maybe, but it was running what was essentially a full on dekstop 7800GTX, and I had overclocked both the video card and the processor

If the I9300 battery can put out 110W or more, Im sure the HP one can handle at least 70 or 80.

Also, this type of thing is EXACTLY why we need switchable graphics in the first place.

 

You might be right about that.

 

This happened when I talked to a CSR when I called around 5:30 AM PST. He said he tried every single coupon, even the $400 off ones and they all did not work. When I called 2:00 PM PST, I think they created a custom coupon though. So I'm guessing these are two different departments I'm calling...but I'm not 100% sure.

 

"
The story changes once you put graphics capabilities on the CPU package, though. Every 32nm Arrandale component has graphics built-in already, so any notebook also equipped with a discrete card has a basic hardware foundation in place for switchable graphics functionality. Thus, we expect switchable graphics to be a much more widely-adopted capability employed in Arrandale-based notebooks that also feature discrete graphics.

Of course, the challenge here is that switchable graphics isn’t an Intel-only technology. The company needs cooperation from ATI and Nvidia to enable support through drivers. As a result, Intel is saying that switchable graphics isn’t a critical launch feature, and it expects the requisite drivers to emerge four to eight weeks after launch. Then again, we've spoken with vendors who say switchable graphics remains a logistic challenge to implement; it might not end up being as compelling as Intel hopes after all."

wow, I read this article months ago. You mean you guys really didn't know this? Same goes for the 1st gen transfer rates on i5s with dedicated GPUs. It's amazing how many people here act like they know what they are talking about when they really don't. The i5 is a budget processor.

 

After a bit of research:
Normal Li-Ion batteries are limited to 1C-1.5C "longtime" discharge current. This means a battery with a capacity of 4800mAh (53Wh, 11.1V) should be used with a max CONSTANT discharge current of 4,8A-7.2A resulting in 53W-80W wattage (Peaks can be much higher).
So depending on which type of battery HP uses and their safety guidelines the 53W limit could be reality
The max discharge current should be on the battery label. As i dont have a envy 15 yet, im not able to provide more information.


But nevertheless the fixed multiplier is not acceptable and should be a max multiplier

 

Exactly. That article was MONTHS AGO.
Switchable graphics will be supported on the i5. People will get their systems in a week or so....and we will see.

The i5 is a budget chip? lolz. And the i3 is what? Part of the Salvation Armies laptop lineup?

 

Hi Guys,

I've just got my Envy 15 Beats Edition delivered and I'm having the same problem with the webcam that has been mentioned on a few threads here. Does anyone know of any fixes for this yet? Apart from the webcam issue everything else seems to be working OK. I bought the machine from the USA and I live in Scotland so the thought of returning it doesn't appeal, especially since its just a webcam issue! Also, is there any point in updating the BIOS? The current BIOS on the machine is F0.5

Cheers

 

Hmmmm.....


There are several errors with this statement... Obviously.

1) *Even* if this was completely true, with the 6-cell and 9-cell batteries attached the Envy exceeds this amount ( 53wh + 93wh = 146wh ).

2) That is a maximum *peak* intermittent rating ( watts versus watt hours ), just as the *max* TDP of the i7 720QM is 45w it doesn't run at that all the time ( as I have *never* taxed my 720QM to 100% it couldn't have ). If a laptops battery wasn't able to provide current in excess of its nominal ( normal rate of current consumption ) power rating ( in the same way a car's battery and electrical system can ) then they would likely all burn out almost immediately.

3) the Envy's AC adapter is rated at 120w, which also includes charging the main and slice batteries while in use ( the rate of which is limited by the heat dissipation of said batteries and not the current draw of the laptop ) while providing for peak intermittent operation of said laptop.

4) Laptops are designed *not* to reach peak intermittent consumption while having the ability too ( the whole reason of power conservation in the first place ).

5) Peak intermittent consumption includes the power on and spin-up surges of all components, which exceed their operating current draws.

6) I could go on, but suffice it to say that I have never had a laptop where the peak intermittent current draw did not exceed the nominal current rating of the battery - really.

A little electrical math - Envy AC adapter output 18.5v @ 6.5a - as watts = volts * amps - 18.5v * 6.5a = 120.25w - Envy 6-cell battery 11.1v @ 53wh so 53wh / 11.1v = 4.81~ah.

Now, according to the Envy manual - 90-W PFC HP Smart Adapter 463955-001 will power the Envy 15 without the Slice attached, including charging the 6-cell battery - so 90w @18.5v - 90 / 18.5 = 4.86a *including* the battery charging draw current which does not apply.

In other words, according to *HP* electrical engineers the Envy 15 6-cell battery provides enough current to power the laptop at full nominal current draw ( just not for very long, as is true of any performance laptop ).

Sigh...

So who is this "Mr. Envy" person anyway?

 

To AllanRG: I see you ordered from abroad, how did you ship the laptop? How did you pay for it, as they don't accept non-US cards? Thanks!

 

Hi Laug,

I bought the laptop from HID Evolution in California and paid through paypal. Ordered it on Friday last week and was delivered on Monday this week using Fedex! 3 day delivery time and that was over the weekend.............I was impressed!

 

Why do you keep making the arugment that the i5 is a lower end CPU? You've done this multiple times in this thread. I don't think anyone believes the i5 is higher end than the i7 quad.
That being said not everyone prioritizes their purchases by what is most expensive or high end.

 

Well said. I'm in exactly that same boat. I want power and speed in a sturdy form factor. The I7 + SSD Raid + 1080p + slim form factor sealed it.

With the battery slice the battery life is pretty good. Besides, the power brick isn't really that huge - it is at least 30% smaller than my wife's Dell brick.

 

Well my replacement/refreshed Envy i7 states it was SHIPPED this morning on HP's website! But FedEx has no record...hopefully it will come Friday or Saturday!

I am boxing up the OLD Envy today. I too had the Purple tinge to my webcam...I looked like a grape!

 

Woohoo! Was your build estimated for January 18th?

 

I'm gonna get in on this fight for a bit, heh dalingrin is right

Core i3 is Budget
Core i5 is Mainstream (desktop is quad no HT, Laptop is Dual Core, with HT.... and I think there are some variations on that too)
Core i7 is Highend performance

but anyway what does this have to do with the machine itself, either way a Core i5 beats anything out there except the core i7 stuff so in my mind it is pretty darn fast, and since I'm not rendering 3d models and/or procession photo's as my day job, Core i5 will do just fine

 

By the way here is what I found from the release notes of the integrated Intel HD Graphics in the core i5.



Source: http://downloadmirror.intel.com/18524/eng/relnotes_win7vista_1002.pdf [Page 5]

Which suggests that switchable graphics should be software enabled.

 

switchable graphics would be nice for us i5 buyers (I wanted a cooler running laptop too), but it doens't appear likely at this point. Would love if its just a software/driver issue that can be applied later on...

I watched a video of someone upgrading the HD on the Envy, looks like you have to remove the rubber feet to take off the bottom plate. i don't like that at all.