*HP Envy 15 Owners Lounge! PART 2*

Here is a photo I took before I sent it back.

 

Seagate Momentus 7200.4 ST9500420AS Hard Drive

 

Alright, I figured it was a Seagate. Do you think I should swap it with my existing Western Digital Scorpio Black 250 GB in my dv6500t for reliability issues or stick with the Seagate? I ask about this is because my luck with Seagate drives are not so hot compared to my experiences with Western Digitals.

 

I'm okay with the trackpad... it's the "integrated buttons" that I hate. There needs to be larger dead zone on the track pad when the "button" area is pressed. I consistently get really jumpy cursors when I'm clicking the left button.

This is just FYI, Years ago, I was reading an article about building more robust laptops that could survive falls better, and the engineers realized that having an unlatched screen on a laptop resulted in fewer cracked displays when it was dropped.

But that doesn't mean that HP couldn't have put a magnetic latch on the Envy 15 like you stated... well that's if somebody doesn't already have a patent on that feature... (Apple patented their magnetically attached power cable, so I bet somebody has patented a "magnetic latch" for laptop screens.)

 

Ahhh, some interesting bags there guys. I have a Booq for my Dell XPS M1730. Expensive, but outstanding quality. Looking at another one now, something alot smaller though for some added portability in my frequent work travels.

Bad news though... No HP Envy 15's left in country over here... I told two of my mates about them. They got really keen, ended up going into town before me and getting the last two machines available! DoH!

 

Why not order one on ebay ? Here is a link to the first one that popped up when I search 'hp envy 15' http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-ENVY-15-Core...iewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item35a731fd02

Looks like a good price and says they ship worldwide. Not that I'm pushing that seller it was just the first of 50 listings.

 

They do their output via usb ( I got the Logitech G35s, but of course there are others ), and to my ears the surround is pretty dang good

 

My mistake, I got 520:1 in contrast on my glossy.

 

There's no such thing as 7.1 headphones. ? Headphones are 2.0 unless you have 8 ears and somebody makes cans with 7 woofers and a sub.

 

i bought (staples) a 16" official HP slim case used for pavilion notebooks, but is the perfect size for my envy, snug with felt-like interior and a small zipper pouch for a slim charging adapter and mouse (or whatever). $29. only thing I don't like is it has the stupid Pavilion circles on the front.

 

Some company use extra speaker and tubes, others use dolby virtual.

 

Regarding bags, I ordered a Waterfield laptop sleevecase with horizontal orientation + flap + rings/strap + pouch. Size 29-19 was recommended as a snug fit for the Envy 15. It was expensive ($104 shipped) but with my options, it should be a versatile case and bag. They offer very personalized service (had a problem after ordering my first item from them a few weeks ago, a Zune HD suede jacket, and they have been nothing but helpful and patient with my finicky a-$-s. I believe they make over 100 sizes of their sleevecase to ensure a snug fit for just about any laptop model. Their products are very high quality and hand made domestically in San Fransisco. I read excellent reviews on them and was sold by some high quality pics some guy had on his blog. I can take pics and give a brief review when mine comes in if anyone is interested. Check 'em out @ sfbags.com.

 

"surround" headphones are a gimmick. You only have two ears, you only need 2 channels. Try listening to some binaural or holphonic recordings to see the surround effects you can get with just stereo.

Basically they use a microphone in the shape of a human head, with one mic in each ear. The sound coming into the ears on the dummy head is going to be the same as the sound that would have come into your ears if you were sitting right there. All the distortions and whatever that your face does to teh sound are replicated by the dummy head.

 

Okay well what I'm wondering is is there a decent external sound card/device that would work by plugging into the USB port on my envy that would offer TOS output so I could hook the HDMI cable to my TV and route 5.1/7.1 via TOS to my amp? My TV has HDMI but only does stereo out whereas my amp can handle Dolby and DTS. I was considering this gadget:

Soundblaster X-Fi 5.1 USB

Has anyone tried it or have a recommendation for something as good and similar? I use a Titanium Pro X-FI in my desktop and have been really happy with it.

 

i have my studio beats headphones

 

Yes Virginia, there are 7.1 headphones. They work by using multiple speakers to create a sonic space similar to that of a 7.1 stereo amplifier. In other words, you can hear sounds all around you.

Just like 'real' life...

Sigh...

 

I am glad to know that I can tell all the movie theaters, producers, sound technicians, etc., that they no longer need to make movies with surround sound because we only have two ears and only need two channels of sound...

You don't just 'hear' through yours ears, you hear through to bone, muscle, and fluid of your body as well. The brain assembles a sonic pattern with all this data and attempts to tell you where things are in a spherical space around your body. Surround sound is still a poor attempt to replicate the sonic space of the real world, but it is not a 'gimmick' and does a good job of replicating the positional information that we get from surround sound movies and games.

If your primary type of listening is music, then no, you don't need anything more than a good set of stereo headphones, but a good set of surround headphones won't do any harm and can enhance the experience if properly utilized.

I, though, love the fact that when I hear a sound behind me while watching a movie or playing a game I can tell if it is going or coming, moving to my right or left, and that if I don't think about it I find myself jumping and looking behind me...

 

LOL

Right or not....it's funny.

lolz

 

What adapter are ppl using to get headsets with a separate Mic plug working with the jack on the Envy?

 

Just leave the mic unplugged? The microphone on the top of the screen ain't that bad, and it's not really that far away from you.

 

Not sure where the Virginia reference comes from, but the consensus is that for gaming, a quality pair of stereo headphones with a wide, accurate sound stage and good imaging will outperform any Turtle Beach/Altec Lansing/Logitech "7.1" headphones claiming to be an all-in-one surround system encased into a single enclosure. I get the multiple drivers thing, but I am a skeptic of how well 4 or 5 teeny drivers packed into a single cup separated by millimeters can replicate a physical 7.1 speaker setup.

 

Yeah, in real life you have 7 speakers blaring sound at you all the time.

ohmyggg is correct in saying that the "microphone-in-head" binaural recordings are *the most* accurate way to reproduce an audio performance for humans. (Minus the chest thumping bass than cannot be reproduced by headphones, but your 7.1 headphones won't do that either.)

People have two ears, and two holes where the sound comes in, put microphones in a dummy head where those two holes are and you'll get the most accurate recording of any performance from a human's point of view. Then play back that recording with a set of headphones matching the frequency response of the mikes and you'll get the most lifelike reproduction of an audio performance available. No post processing to synthetically "mix it" into 7 channels is necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording

Remember the post was originally about "headphones". Now you're mixing it up with sound reproduction for multiple people in the same room. That's where the 7.1 or 5.1 or whatever comes in. Multi-channel sound only exists to give more than one person acceptable sound performance. For example, to have somebody sitting far right of the TV still think that dialog is coming out of the actors' mouths you need a center speaker near the TV. For the person sitting dead center, just two stereo speakers will do. Also one can't run a mass market theater successfully if one requires everybody to put on a set of headphones to watch a movie.

Do you actually think that the person sitting in the front right of a theater gets the same sound imaging as somebody sitting rear left from the dozens of speakers in a theater? Do you actually think that 7.1 recordings are *more accurate spacially* than a "stereo recording"?

Almost all the "surround" effects for an x.1 recording are artifically generated in the studio by a bunch of audio engineers that mix and remix tracks from many different microphones setup to record different bits of a performance.
Crap, they even cut and paste bits from many different perfomances and do pitch correction to produce the final product... but that's another topic.

Also not relevant to a 7.1 headphone discussion. Headphone + sub?

This is incorrect, surround headphones won't enhance the experience at all unless the music was mixed expressly for multichannel sound and even so will be degraded if the drivers aren't set up exactly (relative distance, angles) like how the audio engineer who mixed the recording had his/her speakers set up.

Yeah, cause in real life you have 7 ears to differentiate the direction sound is coming from... oops, you only have 2. So 2 is the minimum number of sound sources that is necessary for a human correctly localize sound.

But definitely if you turn your head with a surround sound setup, the sound will stay localized in the correct relation to your body, when with headphones it won't.

I'm not against 7.1 speaker systems, I'm just against the incorrect argument that 7.1 exists because 2 channels cannot reproduce surround sound. 2 channels can indeed and are all that is needed for a single person. But in a theatre or group environment, having multi-channel sound is necessary to convince people sitting outside the sweet spot that sound is coming from the image.

 

Some old sony and pioneer headphone even have gyro sensor to track head motion in order to reposition 5 virtual speakers.

 

You're wrong. Your brain interprets the minute differences in timing between the same sound arriving at each ear to triangulate where a sound is coming from. 7 speakers give seven directions for the sound to come from. You can almost simulate 7 speakers with headphones by knowing which channel a sound is supposed to be going to and delaying the sound to that speaker appropriately. I don't know if that's what those headphones do, but that's an entirely possible setup. Especially if you get headphones with multiple smaller speakers that can come from behind and in front of the ears so that the muffling from the shape of our ears can give you better hints. The shape of your ear and lots of other things go into you being able to localize sound, not just the fact that you have two microphones stuck on your head.

When you're talking gaming with DYNAMIC sound generation, that's an important thing.

 

I'm glad that you are in consensus about gaming with stereo headphones, but everyone I know either uses some kind of surround sound speaker system/receiver or good surround headphones. It is true that not all games are designed to properly utilize such a setup, but we feel that it is worth it for the ones that are.

As to how teeny drivers placed millimeters apart can replicate a physical 7.1 speaker setup it has to to with distance, angle, processing, and a little something called the inverse square law...

 

No, in real life you have sound coming from all directions all the time...

While binaural sound recordings are indeed more sonically accurate, the most accurate way to reproduce an audio performance is to re-enact it. Failing that, having speakers positioned to attempt to recreate the sound field via an accurate multi-channel recording is better than purely processed sound.

However, most audio recordings aren't done in binaural, and some stereo recordings can benefit from post processing simply because of their engineered nature.

And personally, I hate chest thumping bass...

Firstly, yes I remember the post was originally about "headphones" since it began in response to my comments about 7.1 headphones in the first place.

Secondly, I am not mixing anything up as my comments were about gaming and movie watching in surround sound to enhance the experience where the technology was being used for that exact reason.

Thirdly it is incorrect to say that "Multi-channel sound only exists to give more than one person acceptable sound performance". Theaters, like stereo systems, originally weren't even capable of surround sound, just as movie soundtracks weren't recorded in it. Also, even with stereo soundtracks it is possible to use post processing to create a center channel that emphasizes the voice frequencies - any good receiver can do it.

Also, movie theaters are all about making profit so they cram way too many people into the space, and anybody can tell you that if you sit to close to a too loud speaker it has pretty much the same effect as sitting too close to the screen in dampening your movie going experience. People don't sit on the isle because it enhances the movie, and I always try to find the best seat near the center of the screen and the sonic center of the theater.

And finally, unless the headphones the theaters handed out were multi-channel surround headphones they could not reproduce the soundtracks of most movies accurately. Much less the positional surround information.

No, but as I stated, that is not why there are seats there.

For the engineered soundtrack, and directed action of a movie or game yes, and if done properly they reproduce the 'acoustics' of the listening space that a performance takes place in.

Which makes me wonder why you brought it up...

Actually, I have used surround sound processing to enhance the clarity of stereo sound via post processing.

Also, I don't know anybody who tries to replicate the audio environment of the engineer(s) who mixed the recording since the only ones in the world who can hear the sound like the audio engineer(s) who mixed the recording(s) are those selfsame individuals. Instead people try to create the best sound environment for their own enjoyment...

The next best thing to binaural is a 'live' recording of high fidelity, but those seldom sound like the processed music we get on cds.

I won't argue the point with you, but while you are correct about the turning of the head thing - and I only mentioned that as a reaction to realism since if you are watching a movie you would be watching the screen and in a purely sound situation it wouldn't even make a difference - I don't agree with anything else you have said.

2 channels cannot and were never intended to reproduce surround sound, and in fact it is possible to convince yourself that any surround information contained within 2 channels is coming from the back instead of the front and vice-versa. Surround sound by its name and intent is the attempt to reproduce a 360 degree sound field around the listener to give the illusion of being 'in' the action.

All that is necessary to convince people watching a movie that the sound is coming from the image in front of them is matrixed stereo 'in front of them'. Surround sound is supposed to be decidedly more encompassing.

 

There'r gyro sensor headphone which will compensate head turning.

 

Ebay is a no go for me. When spending $3000AU on a laptop, I am not keen on buying over Ebay, even if it is a reputable ebay seller. From the number of issues people have been reporting with this laptop, I'd rather pay a little more and get it from a local store.

But, if I get told there won't be any laptops coming in for another month, then may have to reconsider my position...

Bag wise, I'm after something medium size, messenger bag, must have a carry handle, I can't survive with just a shoulder strap. Enough for the laptop, plus power cord etc, and some bare essentials for travel, such as a magazine, book, bottle of water etc.

Anyone using such a bag, or know of one? Suggestions always welcome

 

Why not backpack?

 

Ebay is a no go for me. When spending $3000AU on a laptop, I am not keen on buying over Ebay, even if it is a reputable ebay seller. From the number of issues people have been reporting with this laptop, I'd rather pay a little more and get it from a local store.

But, if I get told there won't be any laptops coming in for another month, then may have to reconsider my position...

Bag wise, I'm after something medium size, messenger bag, must have a carry handle, I can't survive with just a shoulder strap. Enough for the laptop, plus power cord etc, and some bare essentials for travel, such as a magazine, book, bottle of water etc.

Anyone using such a bag, or know of one? Suggestions always welcome

 

Golly, how do humans figure out sound is coming from the back with only two ears? Only two channels of audio information is being fed to the brain for processing. Of course the visual bits are passed through as well to help figure out "where" the sound is coming from, plus most non-comatose humans can also turn their heads to get a better fix on the direction that the sound came from.

Let's put it this way, if you make a mold of your head and stuff mics where your ear canals are, and record sound sources rotating around your "fake" head, then play it back with headphones, you'll get an EXACT copy of the phase and volume differences that you normally would use to locate the "live" version of those sound sources rotating around your head, much more realistic than any 7 channel speaker system playing a recording "processed" to simulate a sound source rotating around as long as you're not turning your head around. That's why two channels are fully capable of reproducing "surround sound" with headphones... however, not with two speakers since they can't normally be placed in front of each ear and even if they were there would be a lot of leaked audio from one speaker entering the ear it wasn't placed directly in front of, screwing up the phase/volume difference used to position audio. If humans had three ears, then three channels on a headphone would be the minimum.

Don't get me wrong, 5.1, 7.1 channel systems sound great. Hey, I've got a 7.1 system setup in the living room for movie and TV watching. But the fact of the matter is that since humans have two holes that lead to the ear drums to detect audio no matter what direction the sound is coming from, it only takes two channels to successfully reproduce *ANY* audio information collected through human ears as long as the playback is through headphones.

Just listen to some of the binaural recordings that are one some of the web pages that the wikipedia article references. It's amazing how realistically surround soundy they sound with absolutely NO surround processing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
http://www.terzoorecchio.com/mp3.html
http://binaural.com/indexoldbinhome.html

 

some useful information on battery life extension.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5943846&postcount=468

 

let me put out this final thought and then I am done with the subject. Humans have two ears for the same reason we have two eyes, because triangulation allows us to gather more information about a sound than just the sound itself - which is why the ears are so unusually shaped and not just "holes" in the head. All sounds, are in point of fact, monaural, so why do we even need two ears?

The fixation people have with 3d video is based on the same phenomenon, as although it is possible for a display - be it CRT, LCD, PLASMA, etc. - to reproduce the *light* of a visual experience it cannot reproduce most of the remaining aspects of that experience - including depth perception. That information our brains attempt to fill in for us by our experiences, and the same is true with 2 channel sound.

Surround sound *is* certainly much more effective coming from room encompassing speakers than any headphones, partly because just as you can *feel* strong light on your skin the same is true for strong sound. Also, it is quite true that a more accurate surround sound headset would have drivers on your cheeks and on the back of your skull as well as those on your ears to more accurately reproduce the sounds that travel through the bones - but that would look pretty silly.

Ultimately, though, I am only concerned with one thing, whether surround sound headphones enhance *my* enjoyment of the subject material or not.

You keep going back to the sonic quality of binaural recordings, but what exactly does that have to do with this discussion? I have already stated that I agree that they sound better...

So they sound better, so what? A cd sounds better than a cassette. A sacd sounds better than a cd.

This discussion began with the question as to whether or not you could derive true positional information from a good quality surround sound headset, and just because a surround headset has multiple speakers in it that doesn't even mean that you have to use surround sound when listening to stereo recordings.

You disagree with me because we *only* have two ears, and I disagree with you because we *do* have two ears.

This seems to have degenerated into 'personal perception' versus physics, and so we should just agree to disagree and leave it be. So, if you choose to respond, while I will read said response with great interest I will not continue in kind...

 

Does anyone know if the Envy line will see any changes announced at CeBIT?

 

Such as what? They just did the Gen 2 refresh which added the 5830 mobility chip for both the i5 and 17 editions, USB 3.0 with i7 systems and a couple HD screens, Glossy and a Matte version. Not sure what else your hoping for right now. I would guess that it will be at least a little while before they do another refresh

 

the 17" envy was something I was looking forward to. Perhaps switchable graphics too

 

OIC. Well when I ordered my 15 I asked CS about the 14 & 17 and the person I spoke with "claimed" sometime around mid march. Unfortuantly with HP CS you need to take what they say not with a "pinch of salt" but more like a Salt Lick hehe.

One thing tho. I was considering waiting on the 17 but was concerned that it won't be as portable as the 15. Still if it comes out soon I may try to trade up but have to wait and see. If the 17 has features like more ports and an alternative audio out, such as a TOS or spdif connection, I'll definitly be tempted. Till I see something thats just "Got To Have" tho I like my 15

 

The point is that you stated after the original post that surround sound could *NOT BE REPRODUCED* with two channels. The "enhanced by more than two channels" was also the touchy feely bit you added. You're the one adding the "perception" bits, I'm just dealing with the physics of what's the minimum number of channels it takes to reproduce accurate (not enhanced) positional sound for humans.

All I was trying to explain was that TWO CHANNELS is all that is needed to reproduce realistic SURROUND SOUND because humans only have two ear canals. You've twisted it to: because only takes two channels to replicate surround sound that's why humans have two ears... you're gravely mistaken. I've been repeatedly trying to show you that it's the other way around. If humans had three ears, it would take three channels. # of ears results in minimum number of channels needed to reproduce "indistinguishable from the real thing" positional audio.

If you had just stated that it's your subjective opinion that 7.1 headphones sound "better" that would be fine with me. It's the repeated times you stated that it's impossible to reproduce surround sound with two channels and that it's just personal preference that leads me to state that two channels is all that is needed to reproduce surround sound it completely wrong and prompted me to reply.

I'm not saying anything about what sounds better to you or me or anybody else, ie subjective issues. It's all about accuracy and minimum number of channels, ie objective issues.

Let me state again. It is NOT MY OPINION that it only takes two audio channels (set up properly) to successfully reproduce surround sound indistinguishable from the real thing (positional wise) for a human, it's a scientifically provable FACT.

As long as you write messages stating incorrect perceptions as FACTS, I'll have to reply. Hopefully this will be the last.

 

I said that I would not reply in kind, however since you are stating that your position is based on fact I would ask that you please read these ( or any similar documents ) and explain to me how I am wrong that 3 or more channels of sound are necessary to create true surround sound and not simulate it via psychoacoustics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiophonics

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/surround_sound.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound

 

These topics are so 1970s. I can't believe people still make infinity long post about it.

 

Waiting less on a real 'refresh' and more on being able to pick up an i7-620M directly from HP without having to buy a second CPU.

 

TO BBF and RAGEAGAIN

Really tired of reading about your audio disputes!!!!

Could you please go PM or start a thread!

EDIT: AND PLEASE DON'T QUOTE THE WHOLE MILE LONG RESPONSES !

 

LOL, it is pretty silly. I actually feel its my fault the thread even went this route all because I simply responded to someones post that mentioned they were using 7.1 headphones and I wondered if they could hear a difference using the stereo headphone jack. All I needed to know was Yes or No, hehe. My appologies.

 

It also seems like we should combine the two Envy threads or pick a main one to run with...it seems like there is a new post in each of them every day.

Well, I've had my Envy for a few weeks now. Everything seems as advertised.

Good:
- looks nice
- performance (i7, 5830)
- features (USB 3, large mouse, IR webcam, etc.)
- nice screen (1080P, larger gamut than average, LED)
- great value (priced lower than most in category, certainly less than MBP)
- 1 year warranty with US support

Bad:

- keyboard and mouse require a learning curve/adjustment
- HP doesn't seem in a hurry to provide updated drivers

 

Which ones do you need/want? As of next month at least there will no longer be a wait or self modifying of infs for Graphics. Did you check the this Envy Driver thread for anything you might need? It seems pretty up to date.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=426181

 

Great value... I wish that was the case out here

Actually, when you look at what you're getting, its not that badly priced I guess.

 

Does the latest BIOS update for 1st Gen Envy's (F.17) fix the black screen of death?

EDIT: The description mentions fixes to VGA.

 

bratboy,

Thanks for the link. HP isn't bad compared to some vendors...however, this is the one area where I think Dell is better.

As i said earlier, overall I'm very happy with the Envy. Wouldn't mind a lighted keyboard, or some of the features from Lenovo...but every other vendor has compromises that seemed worse than the Envy.

Now I would just like to see some quality reviews on the Envy and 5830. Also can't wait until ATI's 10.3 is officially released (running preview and seems to work pretty well).

 

Yeah I've been really pleased so far with the previews. I use em wih my desktop as well and last night was first time I've gotten to really put em thru their paces in Aion. Desktop was getting 150 fps+ in fights and not a single crash.

 

For those who don't know, the new BIOS F17.A is now available. Already downloaded it here, and running with no problems. Supposedly it also updates the GPU's drivers, but I haven't noticed any improvement whatsoever.