HP Envy 17 Sandy Bridge Awaiting HP's fix? read

As some of you may be aware, many if not all Envy 17 Sandy bridge units are suffering from throttling issues.
The throttling occurs when both the CPU (processor) and Graphics card (GPU) are simultaneousness in use, for example during games.

The throttling causes the processor to drop to 800 mhz, and in very very rare instances cause the computer to become unresponsive. The drop of frequency will cause most games to suffer FPS loss for several seconds (it varies, some it could be 3-4 seconds, others could be 10 or more seconds).

To find out if your laptop is throttling and how to test go here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/575817-hp-envy-17-sb-throttling-test.html

There is a temporary fix, courtesy of one of our forum member's advise I managed to come up with a very very simple way to combat this throttling. While it does NOT effectively stop throttling it at least pushes it to a comfortable level.

Predicted fix's impact on processor states:
i7-2820QM's are allowed to linger at around 2.1 ghz~ vs 800 mhz.
i7-2630QM's are allowed to linger at 2 ghz~ I believe, instead of 800 mhz.

The fix can be found here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/575817-hp-envy-17-sb-throttling-test.html


The issue at hand

However there is a major issue and discovery when the throttling was temporarily fixed. Heat.
Temperatures on my i7 2820QM skyrocketed to 97c on the processor, and graphics card. This is of course at 2.1 ghz, not at the turbo boost rated 3.1 ghz.
i7 2630QM's however are able to keep 2.0 ghz I believe, and keep much lower temperatures at under 90c.
Some think, well problem solved? No because of HP's inadequate cooling every owner of an HP Envy 17 will be under performing compared to the competition.

Remember the temporary fix only stays at maximum 2.3 ghz for a very brief time, and hovers most of the time at 2.1 ghz with an i7-2820QM. This is enough to cause temperatures to skyrocket to 97c.

What happens when HP releases the fix to stop throttling. Would the i7-2820QM's remain at 2.3 ghz? How would the heatsink assembly disperse the heat that it cannot disperse at 2.1~ ghz.

Secondly because of the inadequate system would HP pretty much disable turbo boost, a 600 mhz to 800 mhz~ frequency change compared to other manufacturer's who's cooling assemblies can handle a 2.6 ghz i7 2630QM, or let alone a 3.1 ghz i7 2820QM

So HP Envy 17 SB users are faced with the predicament:
1. Wait for HP's and see if it fixes throttling at likely stay at max base frequencies (2.0 ghz for 2630QM, and 2.3 ghz for the 2820QM). This means most other competitors with adequate cooling systems would stomp the HP in performance due to turbo boost, which was one of the main reasons for the Sandy Bridge performance gap vs the previous generation of mobile processors.
2. Wait for HP's fix which would enable the processors to be used to the max 2.6 ghz for the 2630QM and 3.1 ghz for the 2820QM, and utilize Intel's important turbo boost feature but at the cost of basically forcing the system to run at temperatures over 100c~ (Remember at 2.3 ghz the system already reaches 97c with an 2820QM. This is cause for concern as there are very few motherboards rated for such high temperatures, and by few I meant just that. Few.

Both were unsatisfactory for me, as gaming is one of the high priorities, so I personally sold my HP Envy 17 Sandy Bridge and opted for a desktop build.

Continued:

So in light of the thermal scenario, HP Envy 17 Sandy Bridge owners should definitely think about the situation they are in and figure out if situation 1 or 2 as outline directly above is a satisfactory answer. If not I personally recommend returning your unit for a refund and pursuing a different notebook. I understand the appeal of the Envy 17 due to it's less "gamer-oriented" design, it's 120 hz display, low cost etc however that's a decision you guys will need to make for your selves.

Even at 2.0-2.3 ghz, respectively, the laptops game quite well. The temperatures however are quite high. So that's a trade off you guys will need to make for yourselves.

Need help deciding?

If you guys need help with making the decision, please feel free to PM me. Include this information in that private message, I will not make specific recommendations on laptops however I will inform you if there's an approximate alternative to your needs:
1. What do you use the laptop for (Only intensive pograms don't tell me you like to get on facebook)
2. Laptop priority: is it a must that you have it? Or can you live not having it for a few days to a week.
3. What was your original budget before you bought the Envy?
4. What features of the Envy attracted you to it (Cost/design/features/weight etc)
5. If you are within the refund policy period for HP or whatever vendor.
6. Cost of the laptop, and specifications as well as if you received any special discounts from HP, so I can take it into consideration as well.

 

I really think this can be helpful to many, I really love what you're doing to help and such

 

Thread finished:

Help upon request please fill out the information if you cannot make up your mind.
Feel free to ask questions if you have any here, if they are regarding your decision stick to private messages I WILL NOT be helping anyone with their decision publicly.

 

And how does the computer behave after updating the Coolsense software which HP released?

 

Fixed my issues, temps reached 98C but I live in a very warm climate.

 

A new version of Coolsense fixed your throttling issues?

 

I haven't fully tested and would love some help. But it seems perfect so far. I don't expect it to not get hot.

I think you missed my posts here. http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/575817-hp-envy-17-sb-throttling-test-17.html

 

Okay I need to ask, where can I get the Coolsense update? I can totally help trying this out

 

Oh okay so your still using throttlestop? That makes more sense then just coolsense being updated.

 

Mirre89 -- check out the software/driver pages on hp.com/support for your laptop.

Ladda ner programvara och drivrutiner HP ENVY 17-2092eo Notebook PC - HP Kundtjänst (Sverige - Svenska)

the above is the swedish page, which I can't read very well, lol . On the U.S. pages there is a coolsense 2.0 download.

 

I was shocked when I saw the link in Swedish but that's awesome Tho I couldn't find a coolsense update, could I use the one from the US site or that wouldn't be good?

 

Here is the U.S. page. check out the software-solutions portion at the bottom

Software & Driver Downloads HP ENVY 17t-2100 CTO Notebook PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

I expect it would work, esp. as your command of English is excellent!

 

Oh thank you!

Well when I chose my model the 2090 one the coolsense update isn't present anymore, it shows when on the 2100 model, well might not matter but I found it weird

 

in regards to all the updates found on that page, would Win7 find them via the Win Update software? thanks

 

you know, I just realized something - The U.S link that I just showed appears to be for models not yet available! the U.S 2100 configure-to-order model, in particular. This suggests to me that coolsense 2.0 will ship on this model when it becomes available, but I don't see any evidence that it is shipping now. I say that because there is no manual for this Envy 17, yet the U.S. 2000 configure-to-order models there is a manual.

hmm....

well use the CoolSense 2.0 download at your own risk, but I expect its intended for U.S 2100 models not yet shipping. I'll try to look into this further

 

You might be right, well I haven't installed it not even downloaded it yet, I'll wait till we know for sure

 

probably not, as Windows update itself looks at Microsoft Windows updates, not hp software updates. But the HP Support Assistant will do that -- if there is an HP software update, it will find it for you.

CoolSense is HP software and not part of any Windows 7 distribution

But -- if you have a model 2000 CTO, the HP Support Assistant isn't going to go looking for software updates associated with model 2100 Envys! At least not until they release the particular update of interest for that model. so thats why I say use the CoolSense 2.0 software at your own risk. I expect it will work, and might be cool, but I have to point out that HP hasn't released 2.0 for the model 2000 Envys (or it would appear on those respective software/driver update pages)

 

I really think you're right on this. But imagine if the 2.0 gets released for all models and fixes the throttling, omg gold. Haha just playing with the thought ^^

 

good thought, lol. This would seem odd to me, though -- that coolsense would drive throttling that is not temperature dependant. I mean -- I thought we saw throttlestop logs where the CPU clock was throttled down, but temps were still down as well. who knows. anyway, I'm anxious to see what this new CoolSense does, if anything. I just don't know how it will behave on a swedish localized system. proably it will be just fine, but one never knows... unfortunately for the non-US Envy owners at least, things seem to happen in the US and get released here sooner.

 

Oh tell me about it, it's like you guys over there get everything ages before we do, movies, tv shows, games, laptops you know the drill, it sucks. But anyways

 

yea, there was a post long ago in the "waiting for SB Envy 17" thread (long since concluded) where someone quoted a UK sales guy as saying something about the U.S market being more "new introductions" tolerant or something like that. there are a host of complicating factors, not to mention parts availability and local laws. its probably a very complex process -- for example, I never did understand why the European models haven't seen an SSD yet, nor can they configure to order!

 

Great thanks.

Are there any other updates I should be aware of that I may NOT be able to find via the Microsoft update software ? I already checked for updated drivers for my touchpad.

Anything else ? Drivers and/or software ? Thanks !

 

if you have used HP Support assistant that will check HP's database for updates that HP wants you to know about. But -- as an additional check (I do this) you can go to the hp.com/support website for "software/drivers" or "troubleshooting" information. theres a lot of good info out there. but if you go to the software/drivers page for your particular model, you will find all the released software.

I just checked the new Env7 17-2100 download page with the current Envy 17-2000 download page, and found only CoolSense is different. So HP is not showing (presently) any changes other than Coolsense.

Some have updated the TriDef software -- check the owners lounge for the Sandy Bridge Envy 17 and look for bobmitch posts on that subject

 

No, TS stopped fixing the issue after updating to CS2. I was only able to stop the throttle after updating to CS2 and setting it to off mode. I am not using ThrottleStop.

 

Odd..

So throttlestop stopped working after CoolSense 2.
Now when you turn off throttlestop, CoolSense 2 effectively stops it from throttling?

Can you run furmark+Prime95 as well as CPU-Z to confirm?

 

TS on and off makes no difference after I updated to CS 2. I finally noticed if coolsense is turned off, the throttle goes away (auto does not seem to work). I ran CPU-Z, prime/furmark IBT/Furmark at the same time, and even unplugged the laptop and it worked fine.

Also, I have no idea which Envy 17 I have since my Model is XW929AV which isn't listed of course. Product# XG359AV (What in the world HP?)

Seems to work with any of the downloads for the envy17.

 

Thanks !

 

XW929AV is an Envy 17-2000 (US) Configure to order

HP ENVY 17t-2000 CTO Notebook PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

btw -- how did you get CoolSense 2.0? did you get it from the model 2100 software/download page? this is just soooo fascinating that CoolSense 2.0 appears to have made a difference in the throttling. But before we jump to that conclusion, lets be very precise here: you're saying TS makes no difference: how are you measuring this "no difference" (i.e. how do you know it makes no difference)?

Also - your experience appears to confirm that CS 2.0 works just fine on the model 2000 Envy, even though HP apparently has not pushed it to these models yet!


crimsoned thanks for hanging out here with us even after selling your Envy 17; please do stick around!

 

I have been using CPU-Z to manually monitor speeds while testing (with Prime, Intel Burn Test, Furmark) of course. Even The Ballad of Tony runs as it should now without droppng into single digit FPS.

Can a Envy 17 2100 model even be bought yet? What could be so different to make a new model? This laptop is still brand new. And how do you know which Envy I have? I haven't been able to differenciate besides the original Envy 17. Not sure where I found CS 2......

 

ok good. sorry you probably said that before. so -- per CPU speeds reported by CPU-Z, Throttlestop on or off makes no difference in CPU performance now that you are running CS 2.0! that just really fascinates me, and makes me wonder if CoolSense is mucking with something that indirectly influences the same thing that throttlestop is trying to influence!


I suspect that the Envy 17-2100 is not shipping yet, no. I just found the support information there, which tells me this one is just around the corner and that they are gearing up to support it. Judging by the model number change (2100 instead of 2000) this will be a minor refresh, and could be as simple as a new SSD and perhaps some software, who knows (I'm really speculating here, but since the 160GB SSD has disapeared from all Envy's and DV6's and DV7s, I suspect it is going away in favor of something different).

I guess any other hardware changes (besides offering a new SSD) would surprise me, and I might even be wrong about that part as well! (such is the nature of speculation). I do agree, however, that the model change means that the changes are significant enough that HP needs to distinguish between them when they give support! otherwise the two models would not have different support pages thats the evidence I'm calling out in favor of some software changes in the 2100 model -- it will require a different recovery disk, and the support agents will have to know what software was shipped on the laptop order to support people who call in.

 

So perhaps we we'll be seeing some improvement from HP in terms of heat. But it's good to hear that Coolsense 2.0 is preventing throttling as reported by Phisherman.

It would be good if more with the ENVY 17 SB would download the 2.0 version and report of any imporvements if there are.

 

forgot to answer this question. go to hp.com/support, select U.S English. then click on "product Support & Troubleshooting". type "XW929AV" into where it says "Enter a product name/number" and hit search. the system does a lookup and, voila, you have a Envy 17t-2000 CTO.

other Evidence of a new model coming: the "maintenance and service guide" for your model specifically lists "model numbers 2000 throutgh 2099. To me, that means the model 2100 Envy's are getting a new maintenance and service guide for "model numbers 2100 through 2199". and it just hasn't shown up yet on the website.

 

Could the new model number be as simple as the support for the SP1 version of Win7?

 

Someone found and posted a PDF (it was in the long owners lounge thread I can't remember what page or who posted it my memory is good but not that good lol).

It appears that the 2100 model won't have Tri-Def it has some other software to provide 3D support that is HP branded. That and coolsense 2.0 which I bet they might release to all models eventually. Probably due to some contractual agreements they can't tell us people living in the past with the 2000 model to uninstall Tri-Def and install the new thing. Just a WAG.

I'm sure some enterprising person that gets a 2100 can get that HP 3D software from the swsetup directory and toss it up on mediafire or whatever so we can have it if we want it.

I would be very surprised to see any hardware changes with the Envy itself. Different HDD configurations to be sure but beyond that I'll bet they stay the same.

 

I thought the Envy 17 shipped with SP1? It's been so long since I booted from the factory install I honestly don't remember but I seem to remember that it did.

 

You might be right, but if you try and configure a new Envy 17 3D now, the OS specifically says SP1. I don't recall for sure what it said when I ordered mine, but my Customer Packing Slip does not state SP1.

 

now, that would be good. Personally, I don't think we'll see any hardware changes that increase the cooling capacity of the laptop...

no kidding. this is astonishing to me, frankly, but one can't argue with the data. It makes the SB Envy 17 a very strong laptop, falling just short of a full-on gaming platform which of course is the intention.

yes -- please do! here is the link directly to the download page for "sp52814.exe", which is release 2.0 of CoolSense, released April 25 for 64-bit Win 7.

HP CoolSense Technology - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

 

Hardware changes would probably be made in the next model and not a small refresh. I personally do not mind if my components operate at temperatures in the high 90's *C, as long as the machine doesn't throttle and the palm-rest has an acceptable temperature then its fine for me.
If HP fixes the throttling, I'm buying this laptop straight away. Now I'm skeptical towards the ENVY (since I'm a gamer and throttling is an issue) and leaning more towards the MBP 17, but this will change once I hear from people that CoolSense 2.0 fixed the throttling.

 

great pointer fiver5, you made me look things up! lol -- there is new 3D playback software for movies, but I don't think the 3D gaming software has changed. on the product page for Envy 17t-2100 is a GETTING STARTED Windows 7 (for select 3D models only). here is the pdf:

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02836777.pdf

here it specifically states "CyberLink PowerDVD" as supporting 3D Blu-Ray, 3D video files and 3D photos. This would represent a move away from HP MediaSmart as the method of 3D playback. However, I find a clear reference in this pdf to the use of TriDef for playing 3D games.

So - lets continue to collect more information, but I don't see TriDef going away in the 2100s

 

I tried searching from the support section and found nothing. But just tried the main page and whadda ya know..... Thanks!

 

Coolsense 2.0 is listed here for download:

Software & Driver Downloads HP ENVY 17t-2100 CTO 3D Edition Notebook PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)


It's listed under software


I would love to see more results on how this can fix throttling

 

I also wanna see more results from this but I'm a bit skeptic on installing it yet

 

if I were you, MiRRe89 I would wait. the unknown for you is installing the English localized CoolSense onto a Swedish localized Envy. you don't know if the English language files on your Swedish localized OS are all available, and if HP's English CoolSense software will work properly there.

Soon we should see more US folks downloading CoolSense 2.0, either via the direct link or from the Envy 17t-2100 CTO page. I'm anxious to see the results too!

 

My problem here is that a few people did clean installs on their Envy's and did not install HP Software Framework, which contains Coolsense. The throttling was still there. Now for Coolsense 2.0 were to actually stop throttling, it would almost have to do what Throttlestop does...interfere with the communication between the bios and the CPU. Again...remember too, that throttling only happens with the ATI GPU. If you switch to the Intel GPU and run all the tests...there is NO throttling...ever! Has to do with the discrete GPU 6850m

 

Exactly, that's why I'm waiting I can live with TS for now

Hmm, then.. If we really think about it, could Coolsense really fix the problem I mean is it even possible for that program to do it? I'm just playing with thoughts here but since HP seem to have put 2.0 out there since that guy who got rid of the throttling got it, they must have known before about the throttling, cos you don't think the info we have gotten to them made them release a fix that soon, I hope you get what I'm saying here. When I think of it it seems to easy for coolsense to fix it, I don't know if I'm just tired now but still.

And the other GPU, it's not as powerful right? It's no idea using that one instead to not have throttling?

 

yes I too have my doubts that Coosense 2.0 is really a "fix". we have only one example, and we need more. Also -- I don't see any evidence that HP introduced CS 2.0 to fix throttling, and if they did, it raises some interesting questions, as bobmitch points out, as to how it would work anyway, given what we know about throttlestop! Keep in mind that CoolSense 2.0 was released in April -- so there's no way this is a response to any input "from the field".

We just have to wait for more examples, but for now I remain both fascinated in the results shared here, and anxious for validation that it works on more than one Envy!
and many thanks bobmitch for reminding us that the throttling occurs only when the 6850 is in use -- and also for pointing out that for CoolSense to be part of the solution it had to have been part of the problem, which can't be the case because the "Clean installs" (no coolsense) also had throttling. I really don't see HP putting "throttlestop-like" functionality into Coolsense, but so far I can't argue with the one example.

 

Well that's what I get for just skimming the table of contents and not actually reading the damn thing.

 

I bet that is what it is. Especially since they have a Envy 17 2100 non-3D. Should be identical to the 2000. If the throttle was not gone I would have noticed. It only takes a minute or so to start on mine because of ambient temperatures. Nobody has an envy to confirm this on?

 

the new model is more than Win7 SP1 -- there is at least one additional software change, for example the 3D movie play-back software is different. Also, I've got my bets on a newly qualified SSD as well

Bobmitch has got coolsense 2.0 now so we should be hearing from him soon.

 

I uninstalled it a few days ago...wasn't all that impressed...

Look here

HP CoolSense 2.0 Detects If You're Using Laptop on Lap or Table (Video)