*HP HDX DRAGON Owners Lounge, Part 1*

Even-ish discharge rate is just so you can calibrate % and time left calcs. If the screen dims, then you're using less watts. If you're watching a movie then you're using more than normal. Things like that will lead to an inaccurate estimate.

Worked for me ever since Li-Ion batts came out. And it is the recommended method.

No, not a cycle count. Here's how it works...

Given: 500 cycle life.

Let's say you only run the batts down to 50% everytime before charging. Then you would have 1000 cycles. On in this case, 1000 half cycles. Since a cycle = 1 full discharge/charge cycle. Which if you did daily would give you a ~2.7 year life on the batt.

Leaving it plugged in, it still goes through a period of ~99.x%-100% a few times a day because there is no trickle charge. When full, the computer stops charging. You won't be able to see this happen though unless you stare at the batt light for an hour and don't blink.

No point in doing the math because even though the number of cycles leaving it plugged in is greater than 50,000, the battery itself cannot last that long because of its chemistry. It'll die anyway in about 1 to 1.5 years. During that time it'll lose capacity all by itself. It needs to cycle every so often to rehab the cells from this condition.

 

Excellent clarification!

 

I should have known it was you. Much of the best info around here comes from your posts.

 

Why, thank you! And likewise, of course! (spoken while performing an interweb "high-five"!!)

 

I hadn't read dv7t's initial post about her battery, but now that I have (page 800), it appears that her fatal flaw is just what I stated...she leaves her HDX plugged in all the time (like some of my clients), which has trashed the battery in just a years time.

Makes sense, then...just have to remember to DISCHARGE every once in a while!

 

thanks. at least i feel confident that when i get a new battery that it should last a solid couple of years for a couple hours at high performance.

I understand now about needing to cycle it let's say a few times a month, but...assuming that I did that, my question is the times that I don't (i.e., leaving it plugged in), how does keeping it plugged in count as a cycle?

I think this was answered by 2, by saying that really it can constantly go from 100 percent to 99 percent, thereby counting as a cycle and potentially going through scores of cycles in a day...hitting the 500 -1000 life cycles quickly?

so if this is true, even discharging the laptop a few times a month, will still be bad, if that is, it's discharging several times in the whole day while plugged in, despite getting a full discharge cycle in every week?

on that note, 2, you say yours is plugged in mostly all the time, whilst discharging it a few times a month...is this prudent?

Is rather just using it on battery until it gets to 10% then plugging it in and continuing working until it gets to 100%, then unplugging it again, etc. the better method (with some discharge cycles down to 5% every week or so)?

 

Adam, I tried to email you but it bounces back as undeliverable. If you're still here email me back from a different account.

Sorry for the OT post folks....

 

OK, this is completely off topic (and off-forum) but in looking at the HP store, they have big discounts on some items. For instance, the Voodoo Envy 133 (current, high-end ultralight noteook) has an interesting small AC adapter that has a Wi-Fi access point built-in! Only $10 (normally $120), with that $20 off coupon code. (plus $5 for shipping). Looks like an interesting "toy", if not for anything else but a keep-in-your-bag mobile wifi access point!

 

Leaving it plugged in is not a cycle. It's a very small part of a cycle. So small it's as if you're not using it. And that's the problem. It's as if you're storing the battery fully charged. Doing that shortens its life. That's why it's recommended that if you store a batt (outside the notebook) for an extended period of time, you do so at around 40% charged. And keep it relatively cool. Refrigerator cool.

In any event, Li-ION batts have to be full cycled (full to "empty") every now and again if you leave it plugged all the time in so it gets "exercised."

Follow that, and you'll be all good.

 

ok so to recap your notebook stays plugged in always except how often/when?
i just need a guide on top of the other valuable battery info like full cycled, etc.

 

very interesting, wondering what the tech specs are. $20 off coupon code i thought was if you spend $100 or more?

 

I thought that too, but the coupon works on any amount. I should know.

 

Answer is yes to both questions

 

did you buy an hdx battery ?

what do you guys think of this hype. found it through google
some company in texas says better life than oem
http://www.level8technology.com/HP-...26?zmam=54821320&zmas=3&zmac=2&zmap=HP16-6026

 

you're right! it takes it off based on the retail value!

the dragon battery ends up being $53 dollars shipped to my door! ($49.99+$3.xx for tax). the better deal is to buy 2 separately.

question is 2, if i buy 2(batteries that is, not you)...and use the one as prescribed...what is the best way to get max life out of the other?

can i fully charge it and store it like you say, but let's say put it in the hdx once every 3 months for an excercise? I don't know how you say it can last a year on the shelf, when i've left my dragon fully charged, then unplugged and when i got back from vacation it was dead?

i'm guessing being IN the dragon, even while off draws significant amount of power daily somehow.

on that matter, is there a way to disable the touch buttons from turning the dragon on, when presumably it's supposed to be off? i find myself wiping it down from time to time and find it annoying when the dvd touch button or quickplay button turns it on (good thing is i get to shut it off quickly as i have bios pass set)?

 

whoa...no sooner than i order 1 battery, about to order a second, do i just randomly unplug the power (it's been fully charged on high performance mode with vista) do i see what.......?


1 hr 55 minutes estimate!

what!?

is this a fluke or a miracle?

time will tell

 

Plugged in always, 24/7. Once every month (4-6 weeks really as I remember to do it.) I run on batt until HDX shuts off. I also do this to calibrate Batterybar's accuracy.

Link to batterybar: http://osirisdevelopment.com/BatteryBar/

 

Yes, the ACPI draws some current. When the HDX is off, it polls for things like wake on LAN, touchpanel and IR.

Best way to store a 2nd battery that you don't plan on using often is @ 40-50% charge in a relatively cool place. Don't have to go as far as refrigerating it.

Nope, no way to shut that off. Built into the unit. JUst like using the IR control to power up from off.

Wow, it rehab'd.

 

excellent! do you use beta or the stable version?

 

ok firstly, how do you do a multiquote i hit the button and it just highlights it

thanks, how long after fully charged do you think it's safe to take out to fully charge again, without dipping down under 50%? 2 months? and when doing so, is it best in your opinion to then just top it off to 100%, then back to storage, or something else?

I couuuuuuuld refrigerate...can I actually do that safely? just a thought.

 

alas, no sooner than i started to type a message did it unceremoniously gradually dim the screen to black and 20 seconds or so later shut down the dragon

back to getting the second batt, i guess. hey 2, do you plan on buying at least 1 batt?(like i said $53 shipped, tax included if applicable)...just curious...especially since you have 2 dragons.

 

Multi-quote as many posts as you want making sure the last post is quoted (as in hitting the quote button).

In my experience, it will last several months out @ 50% charge. Then you would want to charge it to full and use it within a few weeks. Best to cycle it once before going back to storing it @ 50%.

You could refrigerate it (not freeze). It's been done. I have no experience doing it so couldn't tell you from firsthand. Only thing I have in my fridge is beer and a bottle of ketchup.

Awhhh, well.

Thinking about it. But then again, I only use the battery as an UPS in the HDX. They never leave their perches other than to open them up or clean the fans. Even the screen stays up all the time.

My network is on an UPS and gets about 50 minutes runtime. So I don't need more than that for the HDXs. Tablet (TX2500) gets 4 hours and 2 DV5T's get 2hrs a piece. So I've got about a day's worth or battery power between them all.

 

Stable, free version.

 

thanks, i understand you have win 7 (so when i do get it, at least i know it works).

 

If i may ask, when you had vista running (and perhaps it's a similar naming with win7...i don't know since i don't have it yet)...what were/are your power plan settings (and what mods from the default if any did you have for the particular plan)? Since yours seems to be going strong, i thought i'd model it as a guide, besides it probably coincides.

 

Nothing special. I just use balanced with the only modification being I don't let it suspend because I'd otherwise lose connection to a server farm and its data that I rely on.

Win7 has the same power plans as Vista (power saver, balanced, performance), but has a few new features like screen dim. Screen dim is different than screen off in that you can set the % you want screened dimmed after so much time and then minutes later it'll shut off like it does in Vista.

You'll like 7 when you get it. Vista was very good IMO. Win 7 is better.

 

Today I played through countless tests on both HDX models. Both (9200 and 9300) behaved almost identically. The fan problem (CPU), I could clearly ascribe a software. This software was also responsible for another problem.
Both have to do with the ACPI control.

1. After reach of about 50 degrees C (CPU) switches the CPU fan in stage 2
There he would remain as well. (even after cooling)
This is also their problem.

2. The selected power scheme in that moment is simultaneously changed.
request (for example: "On resume, password" to "on") The times of the other settings (screen blank etc) are also changed.

In my case, this software is "3DMark06".
Ironically the one with which I carried out my other fan test.
(to generate the required temperature)

Eighth, please visit the software which is causing this problem with you! This also evident in the separate power settings to change!

Add to "HW-Monitor" I have now created precise data. This program also engages in the thermal control and shifts the boundary points considerably.
But not as unpredictable as I always believed.

GPU core values at the factory during heating:
Idle ca.44 degrees C
Level 2 at 53 degrees C
Level 3 at 63 degrees C

With "HW-Monitor":
Idle ca.44 degrees C
Level 2 does not exist!
Level 3 at 63 degrees C (at U / Level 3 pm to recognize)

GPU core values at the factory during cooling from above 63 degrees C:
Level 3 active in over 63 degree C
Level 2 in reach of 57 degrees C
Idle stage in reach of 46 degrees C

With active cooling, "HW-monitor":
Level 3 active in over 63 degree C
Level 2 in reach of 57 degrees C
Idle stage in reach of 51 degrees C

These results are checked several times on both MoBo.
The warning against "HW Monitor" is restricted by this.
Everyone must decide for themselves whether the increased cooling is used only from 63 degrees C. I'm very pleased with these results and this program will be an increase for me to use.
I would like to explain why, but it is very difficult for me to be able to express myself right here.

 

a few more question
do you have battery bar start on startup or do you manually start it? I actually tried the beta, free version i assume...seems really cool.

what firewall/antivirus do you use? i've been using comodo since the beginning, because at least at the time it was the only 64-bit version (free at least). not looking for free versions, if it's not the case with you, but what you use (i figure it must be good if you use it )

 

What can I say? I'm a sucker for a good deal!

 

EDIT: about battery bar see last post in their forums here http://osirisdevelopment.com/forum/thread-12.html where someone mentions "latest beta kills windows 7 startup .. it's just freeze at "starting windows"...so probably best not to try it (i'm sure you stick with stable anyway) on win7 and have it load at startup.

 

This of course also go to 2.0

1. I hate any noise (fan, and cracking of equals)
2. Powermizer is with me, although "off", but only for basic clock fetgelegtem of 215/110/465. This will create an increase of the GPU idle temperature of around 2-3 ° C. Therefore, it is those at 44 degrees C but at 47 degrees C. A fan reports are there yet.
Register me again, because I have much to report ...
Its ambiguity was just super. (cool)

 

hey and thanks for your help too.

i feel guilty spending several pages talking about batteries!

 

this powermizer that you talk about and was mentioned earlier by 2...i don't imagine i changed anything, since i woudn't know where to even change it. is the default on? is this suggested? how do i check where mine is at?

 

Don't sweat it. Over at the Dell forum there is a 1645 thread that is literally almost 2000 posts of buyers complaining that their orders were delayed! Not even one person that actually has one yet! talk about exciting thread reading!

 

Well, you must also identify that you are running with powermizer off. Makes a difference.

I was playing Crysis a little while ago...

Ambient room temp was 75F.

Top temp GPU was 72 (I overclock - 610/975/1525). Current temp is 43C.
Top Temp CPU was 48/43 (core1/core2). Current temp 28/26.

Fans were on high during Crysis. Went from high/med/low about 1 min after I closed Crysis.

HWmonitor 1.10 running the whole time from startup using HWmontray.

Same thing running Red Alert 3, Wolfenstein, COD4, 3Dmark06 etc.

So, what seems to be the issue in the end that makes you "warn" against using HWmonitor? Maybe you should try running HWmonitor from startup instead of switching it on/off per test?

You'll see that that and turning powermizer back on makes a difference. Give it a try. Otherwise the warning should be, if you run the GPU with powermizer off and you don't run HWmonitor from startup, you may have issues...

 

It's default on (means lower temps but stutter with some video playback, especially full screen). You have to change settings in registry to turn it off or use a free utility program that does it for you.

 

LOL, oh yeah, I did that too. I run about 75-80% brightness.

Same brightness in win7. I do use the screen dimming feature. Why? I dunno. 'cause it's new and new is sexy.

Technet is good. Another fine recommendation by Lancorp. (SSD recommendation is the best of them all.)

 

U da man!

I don't post often -- but I have to say I am amazed at the info you (and others, like lancorp, etc.) keep contributing to this massive thread. It's almost as much fun reading the posts here as using my dragon.

Almost.

Anyway, just want to express my gratitude once again to everyone here for I have benefited so much from you all.

 

Thanks for the tips! I got two though the coupon only gave me $20 off total for both, so 119.98 for 2 -- still, a good deal so I'm happy! I'm sure these will be hard to come by at some point.

 

nooooooooooo! you should have made 2 separate orders. and used the coupons separately. your tax would be less as well.

would have been ~$55 at most each ($70-$20=$50+$5 tax=$55 free shipping).

you could have saved $10 fwiw. LOL.

 

thanks. let me know on the other questions like firewall whenever you have a chance.

 

LOL! Yes, I was too eager, I saw your posts too late. Oh, well, I'll consider it a $10 tip for HP -- but it should have gone to you for posting the tip on the battery sale in the first place -- sorry 'bout that!

Big thank you! I feel lucky to pick a couple up at these prices!

 

well...you could always cancel the order, call tomorrow and make sure it was canceled, then order again might take you 15 minutes (that's like $40/hour for your time).

how is your current battery running, just curious. also, waiting for 2 to chime in, but what firewall and antivirus are you using? i'm assuming you are running 64-bit?

 

A little bit OT...

I'm using my HP dv9790 as my general purpose laptop, I have several HP laptops (HDX and others), also Toshiba's, Acer's, Asus and others I've accumulated over the years. I always liked Toshiba since early on I bought a portable UNIX unit from them with a funky but cool plasma display that just refused to ever die. Still works as far as I know (haven't used it for years). Did a ton of UNIX sw development on it. Anyway, build quality was outstanding. Later migrated to HP because their value was hard to beat when you caught one of those $500 off sales and such.

Any how...we all know the HDX displays are outstanding, and the 17" display on my dv9790 is equally so, sharp as a tack, superb color saturation, good viewing angles, etc. but I find it hard to find unit's with displays as good these days. Is it just me or have you also noticed poor viewing angles on a lot of recent units?

The display is such an important factor, I don't get the scrimping on that part of any notebook. Waiting to see if the trend to LED helps or hurts.

 

cool. what av/firewall do you use? do you have 64 bit?

i have an led hp laptop and it is super bright. definitely just as bright as the dragon. i was impressed. and there seems to be a lot more levels of brightness. when transitioning, it is a smooth ramping, not visible stepping like the hdx and other non led's.

 

Yea, but I'm really lazy...so they can keep the ten bucks. LOL!

I think it's around the 2 hr mark last time I noticed, I do the run-down and recharge cycle every now and then. Set up a "never"-everything power profile for that. And if I know I'm not going to be using it for awhile, I run on battery and run it down a bit before I turn it off. I do not obsess about it, just habits I've picked up over the years.

The one I'm currently using came with 32-bit Vista and I just left it that way. (Did I mention I was lazy? ha-ha) Used mostly for gaming. I use Avast free personal anti-virus software, seems good enough. Since it's mostly just gaming, I have the wifi off most of the time (I don't play online multi-player stuff, just solo). Just the Vista firewall. I'm not too obsessive about security either. Every now and then I run some other stuff and I check my network and router settings, etc. Mainly, I keep my personal data elsewhere.

My email and stuff I do from a Linux netbook (Asus 1000HE).

I'm probably not a good one to emulate. I used to run a lot more security software and various firewalls and such, but I got tired of trying to keep them all updated and working properly. That lazy bit again, I guess. So I just do the basics, use common sense, try to minimize my exposure, and so on.

 

Nice. How are the viewing angles? If you tilt the display towards you or away, do you lose color saturation? That's the big thing I've noticed in some. It happens to all to some degree, but some are a lot worse than others.

Brightness seems fine on most, In fact, some new ones seem too bright to me! Maybe it's just what one is used to. The contrast ratio is important to me (dynamic range) since I do a lot of photography and video stuff. The LED's seem to have good black levels. I can look at the same photo on different machines and see big differences -- like loss of detail in dark areas of the photograph on some, for example. My HP dv9 has a nice evenly lit display, plenty bright, and good range of tones. I was looking at some in BestBuy recently and they all seemed a bit lacking by comparison. But that's not a very good way to tell. Still a lot of reviews I've seen recently (especially some European ones where they take this seriously) have highlighted things like poor viewing angles, wide variances over the full display (brightness), and poor contrast ratios. Not mentioned much in a lot of the US reviews (I'm in US). People more interested in CPU/GPU benchmarks and case logos (ha-ha) it seems sometimes.

Some manufacturers even use multiple sources for displays during production runs and it seems you can't even be sure what you're gonna get. Ah, well, that's just the way it is, I guess.

 

It is simply too complicated for the translation.
Now try to write always in short sentences.
How I would love to show you the problems here.
Come over here!
So: The Powermizer deactivation has no effect on temperatures under load. Only at idle 3 degrees C.
Power at 43 C 3, C = 46 C. Have the cause of my former communications accurately described Powermizer.

"HW Monitor" only turns at 63 degrees C in Stage 3!
Step 2 is skipped.
Hence, my warning. This is only the GPU temperature of the speech. Had not waited for my test then to 63 C. When I finished ca.61 C and then felt "HW Monitor" is blocking completely GPU fan. This was a mistake. However, the switching threshold (63C) not to forget very high, to the level 2 komplet is omitted. That's what I said then everyone must decide for themselves.

All of today's tests I've performed with both HDX.

1. HDX9350EG, mobo, 9200, upgrade from T8100 to T9300, upgrade from MATA_BD-CMB_UJ-120 to Optiarc_BD_ROM_BC-5500A, upgrade from MONITOR \ AUO10AB to MONITOR \ LPL0050 (both WSXGA+), Upgreade from 2x250GB to 2x500GB (WD5000BEVT 5400 - I like it quiet), upgrade from 3GB to 4GB of RAM new mobo, 9200, new GPU 8800M GTS. This is my first HDX. Also, the Powermizer of these measures could not solve the problem. So-Powermizer This is currently "off". (Not everything has been changed due Powermizer!)

2. HDX9480EG, mobo, 9300, T8300, MATA_BD-CMB_UJ-120, MONITOR \ LPL0050 (WSXGA+), 2x320GB HDD (Toshiba 5400), 4GB RAM, 8800M GTS GPU. HDX I bought this because I do not think so.
It is completely new. The price was a joke.
Powermizer currently "on" (but not for much longer !!!!!!)

Have all the tests with all GPU drivers behind me.
The latency peaks are identical for both mobo.
The result also with you too!
There will be noise during the same GPU clocking.
Everything I have already described the time HDX is hardware related and not dependent on MoBo.

For example:
-step to 500 MHz while scrolling through long web pages
-step to 500 MHz with link opening
-Stuttering when QuickPlay TV
-Dropouts in music while simultaneously visualizing
These are just examples. Many will know the effects of becoming, but not assign them to the GPU. I am bothered by them, especially when falling back to the GPU to 200MHz. Then suddenly realizes that she is missing the power. And then jumps back to 500MHz.
Powermizer - no thanks! I really have tried everything they see.

The only difference between 9200 and 9300th MoBo
GPU clock down times:
9200 = 500MHz for 30s, then 15s for 383MHz, 275MHz for 15s
9300 = 500MHz for 30s, then 30s for 383MHz, 275MHz for 30 seconds
As I had thought then you're wrong. Now I know that 9300 is here for a another time. Whatever the reason!? You have but two 9300 or? Perhaps that is too rapid drop in temperature are prevented. (Weakness of the G92)

One more thing .... CPU Temperature in "hardware monitor" OK.
There was always in my interactions with, for example 3DMark06.

And something about the power supplies. My first time I immediately go to Rev: A04-as loud as a HDD.
Rev: A05 other hand, is completely silent.
Rev: A02, I got to HDX9480. This is not as loud as A04, but louder than A05.

 

K. Sorry for the noobish question, and I feel extra noobish even as I type this, but I haven't flashed any new BIOS's ever, my bios is whatever came stock on the dragon when I bought it. Is there any serious advantages to upgrading to F39 (from what I have read in this thread, is the safest most stable option), from whatever stock version it is on now?

And whats the simple straight forward instructions to updating to the F39 Bios SAFELY? Can someone provide these instructions or tell me which page/post to look at?

Thanks,
-Newbie McNoob

 

Miami, follow the instructions that 2 said to update to F40E.