*HP HDX DRAGON Owners Lounge, Part 1*

I think he sort mentioned where he got it from:

I took this to mean it's a pull from another notebook. Though he ought to keep that card and buy his friend a new one from RJTech because the new one from RJTech is guaranteed not to work.

The new ones from RJTech do not come preflashed. They have to be flashed in a Clevo system.

 

And if we can get the same vbios that he's using then the new cards from RJTech should work too right? If properly flashed of course.

 

Going to have to wait to see if it the one he has works. Not an easy feat.

 

About a year ago or so I took apart a HDX9k that had an Ati card to check if an Nvidia Quadro FX (don't remember which one exactly) I traded from a friend worked. It didn't. But neither did it in my FSC Amilo which I had at that time. I managed to get one card working in that Fujitsu laptop - had an Ati X1800 originally but as 90% of those cards it got burnt - it was an Nvidia 8600 GS.

I'm just saying changing cards in laptops depends on sooo many things. It could be that he was lucky with a good vbios and now the gtx is working in his hdx. Btw 2.0 did you try more vbioses when you tried the gtx?

 

Indeed, it does depend on a lot of things. But I couldn't try a different VBios because I had no means to flash the 280.

 

Feels like blacklisted instead of whitelisted, lol.

Laptops really ought to come with an extra bios chip, like an extra button for a shirt. Too much depends upon such a volatile component. Even a senior comp engineer advised me to just leave the lappie alone.

-

 

Do you recall what that key combo was? I still have yet to update my BIOS. Was afraid to do it, and wouldn't want to unless I got the extended warranty first. I still have yet to get the warranty. Make sure any potential problems are taken care of first by them, especially if the BIOS update causes problems, then if it was verified that the 280 card works I can get that installed, but Lord knows if that will happen. If not, I'll likely just get a larger capacity SSD with long warranty since no one seems to want to sell their top specs HDXs (with WUXGA and the X9000 2.8GHZ CPU) anymore.

 

How to raise a Dragon from the dead (or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bios recovery procedure for HDX Dragon):

1. Download latest bios from HP and extract to a folder.

2. Extract either NV.cab or ATI.cab depending on your graphics card.

3. Open the ver.txt file and look for the string after '_ROM_' (for F.40 bios it was '68DVD').

4. Rename Rom.bin to 68DVD.BIN

5. Copy the 68DVD.BIN file to a freshly formatted (not bootable) floppy.

6. Remove battery from HDX.

7. Plug a USB floppy drive into the HDX and place the floppy with the bios file in it.

8. Hold down Win and B keys and turn on the power.

9. Release keys when floppy is accessed.

10. Sit back and wait about two minutes for your HDX to rise from the dead!

 

Just a quick heads up for those who want to try to get the max out of the video card (nvidia) in their HDX:
I tested 5 different drivers, official from hp, newest on HP site, 257.15 from laptopvideo2go, official that comes from Microsoft Update with Win 7 (quite good results but doesn't have the Nvidia panel ) and the 197.90 from lv2go and the last one is the best one. Good performance without any problems that I experienced with 257.15 (DiRT2 and 3DMark were "stuttering" oddly). Maybe this will help some of you

One thing I noticed: the bottom of the monitor where the inverters are gets hot, like 40°C or even a little bit more, is this normal?

Thanks! I will look for the T9500 then.

 

Still no word on the 280, huh? That's too bad, I hope he didn't fry the system.

 

Google Earth is showing a mushroom cloud where Poland used to be. I'm guessing that's not a good thing.

 

Thank you. Can it be a data burned cd, usb flash drive, or does it have to be a floppy drive?

 

The CD and USB flash might but hasn't been tested. Don't see why they wouldn't. The system checks both at start up. But for sure the floppy works.

 

<bump>

Anyone?

[L]

 

It's probably dead.

However, D/L the latest HW monitor: CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting

It will give you a bit off info about the battery. Once you have it installed, run it. Pull the AC connection out the back if the HDX. Does the HDX cut off immmediately? If not what does HW monitor report as voltage and mAh?

IF it didn't cut off right away, plug the A/C back in after the battery has run down a bit. Let it charge a while then pull the A/C out again and let it run on Batt until it's low. Continue this process if it shows increased runtime. You're trying to conition the battery. Otherwise if it doesn't show runtime improvement, the batt is dead.

 

both my dragon batteries show 0% wear (yeah), and 78,160 mWh capacity... just for reference.

 

given' you some rap power for that one (as opposed to 'rep')

 

You wound me.

 

Ha Ha Ha

Some new details.




and

YouTube - S5004307.AVI (some poor quality, I don't know how upload a HD version)

There are some problems with the stable work of the card on HDX
My version of 280m gtx is from a CLEVO serviced(i think) but I do not remember what model

I do not know why programs like GPU-Z and EVEREST show the value of clocks 585(600)gpu/950mem/1465(1500)shader, these values are the 280m GTX MXM3 slot, while on MXM2x should be 525/800/1250, but I may be wrong

Unfortunately, nothing will do, because I must give back a graphic card, to my friend

sorry 4 my english, I used a translator little bit

 

nicely done!
but can u show us the temps, because i think u had some temp problems. and how did u installed the 280m gtx in the hdx because of the height ? can u show us some pics ?

 

nice. yes how does it physically fit in the hdx???
Jak to fizycznie pasują do hdx?

also, anyone...how does this 3dmark03 score convert to the 06 score OR...what is dragon's equivalent 03 score with the 8800gts?

 

2.0 did you receive any news from your letter you sent out to HP a while ago?

Apropos, I mentioned a few days ago if you were able to get your Dragon sound system working with Ubuntu-I had mine working (along with my webcam) but uninstalled my Ubuntu after I had upgraded to the newest version of Ubuntu 10.04 which caused a lot of problems....

That being said, I'm not going to be giving up so easily...

 

I used to contribute to this forum, long ago, taking the unpopular position that an MXM upgrade was possible for the Dragon. I probably had about twenty-five conversations with technicians from HP in India, Canada, and an extensive email conversation with an HP tech in the Netherlands. I also had conversations with a senior tech at Eurocom, and ultimately a long email conversation with Kris at MXM-upgrade.com, who is possibly the most knowledgeable person in the world on upgrading MXM cards. He has an extensive technical background, and is one of the founders of the NVIDIA LaptopVideo2Go forum.

About eight months ago Kris offered to loan a 280M GTX and a 3700M Quadro to any “esteemed member” of our forum, with no obligation to buy unless the card actually worked. I should add that MXM-upgrade.com offers a service which would be too expensive for those of us in the US, in which people ship their laptops to his company in Belgium, and he would “throw every card possible” at the particular laptop in question at no charge unless success was the result.

I private-mailed a number of our forum members with this offer of the loan, but received no response.

Today I sent the information about MXM-upgrade.com to our Polish compatriot, and I hope my English was comprehensible to him. For some reason recent e-mails to Kris by both me and another forum member have as yet received no response. But the point is that Kris may very well be able to help sort out some of the obstacles that were recently encountered, and possibly he may still be generous enough to loan zipek_dg another 280M GTX, Clevo branded if necessary. If Kris is still willing, he probably would only make the loan to one party, and it would make sense that it should be to zipek_dg because sending the card(s) to Poland is less complicated duty-wise, and zipek_dg already made some real headway.

Cheers,

MobileArtist

 

I sent a follow up letter last week asking for the status of the case. I expect a polite letter of appreciation in return.

Ubuntu 10.04 is working fine for me. Though I had it running well in 9.10 with updated kernel 2.6.32.

 

Please, please! don't use automatic translation for Polish. This is sometimes so painful [ok, maybe this one is not so bad after all, but the previous one...] Sometimes really much more painful than RickiBerlin's automatic translation from German [I'm not saying anything about his really helpful and technically advanced in-depth posts, just the translation system that is not capable], because Slavic languages are much more f... up... I mean complex
I'll try to contact zipek to help him with translation if needed.

This is hard to compare 3dmark03 and 06 number by number, as each new version of 3dmark tests different set of features that show up as new generations of cards are unleashed.
For sure you should be able to find results for general comparison in some result databases online. One of the first examples from uncle google:
Overclock3D :: Review :: XFX 8800GTS :: Benchmarks - 3DMark

PS: my first post here - just jumped around to see what's up on page 215 (I'm still a year back around page 165, using the longest pages available). It's like reading a thriller or at least a good romance

 

According to notebookcheck it appears that the 8800M GTS gets a 3Dmark03 score of 24874. So the 280M GTX is ~35% faster.

Rough 3Dmark06 score would be 1/3 the 3Dmark03 score. So the 280GTX would have a 3Dmark06 score of 11,458 w/T8100.

 

Welcome back.


We really need someone who can translate Polish to English and vice versa because the exact procedure needs to be detailed. I've already tried the 280M GTX and it didn't work which I attribute to it being a brand new card instead of a pull. (A pull would be flashed with Clevo BIOS). Also there are physical difficulties that have to be overcome because the heatsink will not mate with the card properly. A copper plate of 1.5-2mm will need to be made to fit between the heatspreader of the GPU and the heatsink. Also a friend of mine tried the Quattro 3700M card and it also didn't work and that was a pull from an IBM W700. Also had the same physical installation difficulties of not mating with the heatsink properly.

So we need to know exactly what Clevo system this came from and what vBIOS was used. That is the key to why this particular card worked. Moreover, we would need someone who has that Clevo system to flash the 280M GTX card so it can be used in other people's HDX. Also a supply of custom made copper plates to properly mate the card to the heatsink. One last thing is where to get taller tacky thermal transfer pads for the GDDR RAM which also won't mate properly with the heatsink towards the back because of the gap.

Lots to be done before it becomes viable for all but do-it-yourselfers.

 

it was easy to insert 280m gtx into MXM slot in HDX, 280m GTX is a MXM slot 2.1 Type HE, 8800m GTS is a MXM slot 2.1 Type III, PCB size between 280 and 8800 were exactly the same, and the screw holes were in the same places.



(HE CONNECTOR 100% compatible to work with 280m GTX)

(REGULAR CONNECTOR IN HDX DRAGON)


"The differences are minimal: the HE connector has additional pins with the only purpose to carry more power. There are no functional differences besides the power capacity." (source: MXM technical before 3.0)

So probably for that reason I had problems with a stable work of 280m.
I do not have this graphic card already, I had give back, to my friend.
Maybe one day, he will be have the 9800M GTX, at the MXM 2.1 Type III or HE

 

BTw, nice video. Love the music!

 

Nice to be back.

You're absolutely right that we need someone who speaks Polish. Hopefully, if I get a response from Krism I can find out if he has any Polish speakers working with him.

MA

 

thanks for that. yes what you describe is NOT the issue, as 2.0 got it to fit that way.

the question is the mating of the heatsink to the graphics card and the gap that exists??? how did you make that fit? or did you just not have it touch the heatsink?

 

Welcome back man Also thank you for all your efforts in trying to get the upgrade for the HDX working never giving up on the GPU upgrade idea.

 

I think that is the problem no? As in the additional mods needed for cooling were not done before he had to give the GPU back. Thankfully he didn't fry his system or the card. I guess if that mod were done it would work? Any input on that idea from anyone surely welcome!

 

Awesome job man! Thanks for doing all of this work and letting the community have a window on the progress of this GPU upgrade project! I guess the next step is to get you connected to Kris from the MXM upgrade site and with a polish speaking individual from there. Up to now, I guess the only issue really is just with the heating/cooling?

 

There's stability issues may not have anything to do with thermal management but supply wattage.

 

@ zipdek_dg
hmm so you used a GTX 280m MXM 2.1 Type HE? If i remember correctly ... 2.0 used a GTX 280m MXM 2.1 Type III and he wasnt able to install any drivers + also the card wasnt even been able to be recognized by windows.

my mouse arrow is already on the "buy" button in ebay for a gtx 280m ... i just need to press the mouse button ... but now i am not sure because 2.0 tried to run his HDX with a GTX 280m 2.1 "Type III" not HE.

 

It was the same exact card. Difference was his is a pull and mine was new from RJtech.

Here's a pic of the two cards side by side: http://forum.notebookreview.com/5058591-post6995.html




Left: 8800M GTS. Right: 280M GTX

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy any card yet. It's early in the process, as 2.0's
comments suggest.

This is a step by step experiment/project.

MA

 

hmm ... i.c.
i wonder if i can add or override my bios with an another video bios information with a program like nibitor. i already have the bios information for a gtx 280m. edit: ofc for a mxm 2.1 type III

i just wonder if this post (from 2.0) helps me to restore my old bios if the flash fails.

 

BTW, just to illustrate what I was referring to about the two capacitors at the back of the card being too high such that a gap between the heatsink and heatspreader of the GPU exists, here's some pics:



On the left side is the head of the heatspreader on the GPU. On the right side you will see the head of the capacitor being about 2 mm higher.

In this next picture, you will see how the HDX's heatsink must sit on top of the capacitors which is why the "sloping" gap exists. That gap also prevents heat transfer from the back row RAM chips to the heatsink and also two the the RAM chips on the side. You'd need thicker tacky thermal pads to compensate for the gap. Or you would have to Dremel away some metal from the heatsink (w/o cutting the copper pipe) so that the heatsink fits around the capacitors.




Also, a new card will require you to remove the heatsink backplane off the 8800M to use on 280M GTX. Not an easy job.

 

You're guaranteed to brick the HDX. HDX Bios doesn't work that way. That's been tried with the 3700M.

But the BIOS recovery method does work for that.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-owners-lounge-forum/169232-official-hp-hdx-dragon-owners-lounge-1066.html#post6312844

-

 

What exactly is the problem, not enough power? Or is it a problem of the dynamic on how the power is distributed or what not? Or do we know really. You'd think the power brick is more than enough if the problem was the former. It looks like it can power a go cart let alone a small house.

 

So greatly appreciated!!! Looks like we've now got several heads working together on this one.


Do we have a good gpu under-volter? Here's one for cpu (RMClock; overclocks as well):

Download. CPU Rightmark


Such a fun little project. I figure that another solution will rise before I could do 'surgery'. If wattage isn't an issue, looks like the whole sink plate should be machined (reusing the copper line) unless the 280m stock set can be more easily altered for the HDX.

=

 

LOL. Power a go kart.

The problem could be twofold. The BIOS is supposed to determine the voltage to be applied at certain clock frequencies. But since we can't get to the HDX BIOS...

The other potential problem is, even though it's an MXM slot, it doesn't mean HP followed the specification perfectly. Likely they cut corners and capped the max amount of power supplied to the MXM slot. After all, they had a proprietary 8800M card made just for the HDX when they could have used a standard one like in the Gateway gaming notebooks that came out around the time of the HDX. Moreover (love that word, sorry), they designed the HDX's motherboard to accept and power a MXM II (ATI) and MXM III (Nvidia) card with only a slight modification from the original ATI only motherboard.

 

Picture of the 280M stock cooling solution as I received it:



This is how it comes from RJTech and how it looks in every Clevo it is used in. No way to retrofit that into the HDX.

 

Danke, 2.0

I just don't get HP and BIOS. I've had many other brands, and, like my Dell, BIOS was updated to nearly its last days. I'm quite ashamed of HP if they figured this $5K machine would go out like a cell phone.

I should have guessed the heatsink were whiteboxy. (but, give me the right tools, and.....) Even though the Clevo heatsink face is of course ideal, machine-modding the original (after mold) would probably be most efficient and more precise due to the HDX's heatsink size. Also, a better heatsink could be manufactured in case there is a significant temp increase.

Normally I wouldn't spend so much time on this, but it really bugs me that some HD apps become choppy with the 8800m (@ WUXGA), and 20" HD digital picture frames are a lot cheaper . Fix that problem and this computer may immortalize for most media apps unless human vision acuity doubles very soon.


Regardless as to the outcome of this upgrade, I thought some of you might like to view a few HDX behemoth challengers.

Xentex Flip-Pad Voyager (only 12.6 lbs?--lightweight!):

Xentex Flip-Pad Voyager - Innovative by Design | PCMag.com

and, the cracktop:

The Biggest Laptop In The World | Laptop News Daily

=

 

One thing ziped should've done or ask his friend to do if still possible is to backup that vbios on that card. Most important because in the future we'd be able to find a Clevo or anything else which we could use to flash that vbios and use the card in the hdx.
Without that vbios we're pretty lost and who knows how much time and trial & error would be needed to find it

 

Can a vbios be extracted or copied when the gpu is installed in the device?

Alternatively, if we can find out the specific model and any other pertinent information about the original laptop, it may be possible to trace and match the vbios to a specific card. MXM-upgrade sells a wide range of GPUs, branded or flashed for different devices. When I was communicating with Kris from that site he was offering to loan a Clevo 280M GTX and a 3700M Quadro dedicated to the HP Elitebook 8730 (if I remember correctly. It's somewhere in my notes.)

MXM-upgrade.com is a pretty high-minded business. They're very willing to help (offering in the past to loan out two cards!), and are interested in a building a large database of upgradeable machines. That helps both consumers and the company.

MA

 

Hello All.... hope you can help.

I have a HDX9200 with ATI graphics card, intel extreme processors. Things work fine in all applications, except games.

I can't verify whether or not FPS work well, but I do know that the RTS games black out the screen (adjusted for compatibility mode). I have attempted over multiple RTS and same result after 2-30min of play time. I've noticed that this seems to happen only when the adapter is attached (performance settings are set to high) and not when the comp runs off the battery (settings at economy power level). When running off the battery, comp works as HP intended it.

Question: is this a typical heat buildup issue? A PSU issue? If so, how do I resolve?

J