HP In-Warranty Repair Woes

Sorry your new system is not up to par. I would be curious to see if anyone else with the NVIDIA GeForce Go 6150 has the same issue with an external monitor. It would not surprise me at all. The 6150 is junk IMO. It was the main problem with my first system. Three mainboards and all had the same problem for me. I am very glad they still offered the NVIDIA Go 7600 when I got my replacement. My 3d business and gaming rating went from 2 to 4.7 in my Windows Experience Index. That tells me the 6150 integrated graphics is low end technology. I bet your same system with the Go7600 would be just fine. I tried it on my 19" crt with no problems. I hope someone else with the 6150 will try theirs with an external monitor just out of curiosity. Anyway sorry to hear you didn't get the resolution to your problem that you wanted.

Jim

 

I am sorry to here that man, I have the nVidia GeForce Go6150 and I haven't had any problem at all. I have tried VGA and S-Video both work fine. So the distortion you get is not fixed changing resolution or video settings?

 

Kubel, would you be willing to humor me a little?

Plug the monitor, base, and laptop into the same outlet. Same result?

Get 3 of the 3 prong to 2 prong adapters.

Use one on the Monitor only. Same result?

Use one on the base only. Same result?

Use one on the laptop only. Same result?

Now do monitor and base/monitor and laptop/base and laptop. Same result?

Now all three. Same result?


Just trying to eliminate a ground problem, which is very possible!

 

Great, so HP has horrible warranty service, and new Dells have grainy/grey displays. What to get...........

 

I'm thinking it's not just the video card, but the motherboard on the DV6000Z's (and possible V6000Z's if they are identical). I don't see how 2 repairs and 2 models can exhibit all the same problems unless 1) I'm a total idiot or 2) they are common to all similar units.

Deputy:

You have a very good idea that I haven't considered. Testing now...

 

Ok, I'm having a bit of a problem here understanding this:

Monitor and AC adapter plugged into APC strip (grounded) = degradation.
Monitor and AC adapter plugged into APC strip (groundless) = degradation. (along with a warning saying site wiring fault, which is expected since there's no ground).
Monitor (grounded) and AC adapter (grounded) = degradation.
Monitor (grounded) and AC adapter (groundless) = no degradation.
Monitor (groundless) and AC adapter (grounded) = no degradation.
Monitor (groundless) and AC adapter (groundless) = no degradation.

These results don't make sense. They aren't consistent with any theory. CONSISTENCY. MUST HAVE CONSISTENCY. Except... wait... If both the monitor and notebook share a ground connection (even if that ground is not grounded, like in the case of the groundless power strip)- there is degradation.

Anyone here an electrician that can explain this? In layman's terms, does that mean either the laptop or monitor is crapping on the ground, causing interference? I'm willing to bet it's the laptop, since none of my other notebooks or computers have problems, and these problems happen on other monitors in the house, only with these dv6000's.

Maybe I should change the link in my sig to "Why I will never be an electrician... ever..."

 

I defininetly wouldn't say that it's the laptop. The reason in EVERYTHING SHOULD BE PROPERLY GROUNDED. Basically somethings are more susceptible to improper grounding, and audio and video problems generally fall into this category.

I wouldn't put the blame on the laptop as everything should be properly grounded.

The problem may be the expansion base. The VGA signal actually carries a ground and if the laptop, or base, or monitor are at different ground potentials it actually becomes a conductor (current flows on the ground).

Would you be willing to try this again with a different monitor?

** Disclaimer - I am not an electrician, though I have an electronics baclground. Purposefully ungrounding electrical equipment, under any circumstances, is done at your your own risk. Ungrounded electrical equipment, and electricity in general, may present a shock hazard. DO THE FOLLOWING AT YOUR OWN RISK!**

If you have a decent multi-meter laying around you might check the VGA outs http://www.bbdsoft.com/video.html and compare the voltage difference between each VGA out ground(laptop,base, and cable) and electrical ground.

Just a little CYA

 

I'll give it a try on my Mitsubishi 17" CRT.

Thanks!

 

It's still doing it on my CRT, just nowhere near as noticeable as my LCD (in fact, it's tolerable, but still there).

How can I solve this problem (other than plugging my monitor or laptop into a groundless adapter)?

I also tried the various ground and nongrounded tests on my brothers Gateway notebook and my Compaq notebook, and they both run flawlessly with both monitors with or without the adapters.

How unsafe would it be to just always keep my laptop ungrounded with an adapter? It's a cheap, simple fix.

 

Did you have the opportunity to check with a multi-meter? Did you use the same VGA cable between the dock and monitor?

 

Actually, I'm leaving the docking station out of the equation. It relies on the laptops AC adapter for power, and has the same symptoms with it or without it. But yes, the same VGA cable going into my LCD is going into my laptop, docking station, and desktop when I tested them.

I have an older analog multimeter. I haven't used it much aside from testing the rails on my PSU, so you will have to coach me through.

EDIT:
I found a good article explaining both of my past problems. It's called "ground loop". http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/index.html
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/basics.html

That seems to be an extremely accurate description of my problems, except the bars aren't consistent or smooth. They are very fast and random appearing on the screen, very staticy, but they do move vertically up the screen. The ground loop apparently only happens when the laptop running at higher speeds.

The ground loop is sustained through the VGA cable. But there has to be a fault in one of the two devices that is causing the interference in the first place causing it to dump current (even the slightest amount) onto the ground. They say that an accompanying symptom of a faulty device is often resonance. I'm going to look into these articles a little more, but it seems to be the exact same problem I'm having.

 

First, that's what I'm talking about. It is called a ground loop and usually rears it's head in audio and video.

Have you tried a different VGA cable?

The easiest way is to set your meter on AC and start at a range near 120VAC and you are testing between the ground of the AC outlet and the ground pins of the VGA cable. If you don't see anything, lower the scale, until you you can't lower it anymore. A lower scale would make needle movement easier to see with smaller voltages.

Next use the DC scale and do the same.

** Be careful. Electricity can kill. Do this at your own risk! **

 

Yep, I tried different VGA cable on my LCD, and all the other monitors had different cables on them too. No major difference.

Looks like pins 5 (analog), 6 (red), 7 (green), 8 (blue), and 10 (snyc return) are all ground. I'm going to bet the culpret is pin 5 or pin 10, so I'll start there.

 

I'm detecting minuscule needle movement (would that be enough?) between AC and VGA grounds. Nothing major though. But I assume when it comes to HD audio and video, it doesn't take much to throw them out of whack.

I think I'm going to give up, and just run my laptop or monitor groundless if I'm using them together. It's a cheap, simple fix. I probably won't be using them together much longer anyway. My new desktop parts are going to ship this week, so I won't be docking my laptop much more once I get it built.

Anyway, thanks for the help Deputy. I think you're right, and a ground loop is the problem here. At least HP fixed the resonating issue with the replacement. That resonating gone and a $.50 adapter to fix the ground loop takes my headaches away.

 

OK, we'll go with that

On a side not ground loops don't affect digital signals.

 

I knew it had to be a ground noise issue, but dang deputy...you knew how to troubleshoot it better than I could have. Sweet, and definitely rep well deserved.

Have you ever considered getting a EE degree or EET degree?

 

Hey deputy963
Nice job. I never even thought about a possible ground issue. Good call.

Jim

 

The funny thing is I do have an EET I also work with television infrastructure on a daily basic. It's so computerized now that I haven't jumped into a circuit in 15 years! I can swap a power supply with the best of 'em!

Thanks for the Rep!

BTW, Kubel, you owe me $4216.57 for troubleshooting! (A man has to make his money.)

 

I kind of wish HP shipped notebooks with DVI-out instead of VGA-out.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultra-AV-SV-Com...69QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3761QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Well Guys,

HP finally budged and transfered me to a case manager. She offered me a replacement dv6000z with a few upgrades. So, how did the process go for you?

 

Kubel, I forgot to mention there are actually 3 different DVi's - DVI-A (analog) DVI-D (digital) and DVI-I (both). Obviously an analog connection could still suffer from a ground loop issue.