HP Mini 311 on sale!

One reality you need to face is that both ATI and nVidia anounce products, far, far, far to early. Ion was supposed to be out over a year ago. Now, and only now, do we have our first Ion netbook. If ION 2 isn't delayed due to the Intel Versus nVidia chipset lawsuit, then it will still take forever to get adopted by the OEM's.

I will predict that you will not see ION 2 before April of next year.

 

Right now I'm more interested in seeing the prices for the Windows 7 version of the Mini 311 and its CULV variant, the dm1.

 

Ion 2 wont make it this year , at the vrey earliest look to Febuary of next year.

The ion 2 will also be in more expensive platforms. Its a bigger chip on the same process.

 

No, it might be built on 40nm compared to 55nm for current Ion, and it will work on netbooks as well as Via powered notebooks and larger Intel culv machines. Link.

 

it wont be 40nm , currently the only fab they have access to for 40nm. Right now capacity is bought out by other chips

 

IT remains to be seen. The neo is faster. But I don't see the radeon 3200 being slower It has more shader units and more fillrate . Lets also not forget that you can set aside larger ememory amounts .

If you look a the platform the ati platform has acess to slower ram and that is the reason why the ion looks faster. That laptop reviewed has ddr 2 800 vs the ddr 3 in the ion. Of course the neo isn't limited to just ddr 2.

Therei s a ton of questions going foward on these platforms. I am more interested in the mini right now , I just worry more about the cpu than anything else. It seems that the hd 3200 has almost as good performance as the ion dispite the lower bus speed. I wonder what a dual core neo will mean in the future though with newer mmorpgs like sw tor. Like i said , I wish i could get a 2ghz or dual core 1.6ghz atom

 

The number of shaders cannot be compared because one use scalar shader and one uses vector shaders.

To put matters in perspective, the GTX285 is a superior card to the 4890 (even if ever so slightly)while the GTX 280 has 240 shaders and the 4890 has 800. So even with over 3 times the shaders, it is beaten by the nVidia chip. Likely, just translate 16 shaders versus 40 and that pits the favor to nVidia even more. So if a 285 beats a 4890, a 9400M has no problem beating a HD3200. Besides, Anandtech tested both platforms against each other and the 9400M was faster by around 10-20%.

The DDR2 versus DDR3 will not matter much in my opionion as I don't really believe either of these chips are starved for bandwidth. They might gain a bit by upping the memory clocks, but it is never a 1:1 ratio for clock gained versus performance gained. Even on bandiwdth starved cards the ratio is more like 2:1, where each 1% clock increase yields less than .5% performance increase.

 

TSMC will have more fabs running 40nm shortly. EVen so, a mature 55nm chip can easily consume less power than an immature 40nm. So a 55nm chip produce early on will likely consume more power than one that was produce near the EOL for 55nm production of a given chip.

 

The gtx285 is also over 1b tranistors bigger. OR basicly double the size it also has double the ROPS of the radeon 4890 .

Yup faster with the faster ram But of course the frame buffers were even at the time. What happens when you up the frame buffer on the 3200 ? As you said your stuck with 256 megs on the ion and have a 1.8 gig buffer on the 3200 ? Will the bandwidth advantage of the ion make up for the lack of ram ?

So many questions , it be nice for a user to have a congo based netbook to play with like we've seen the improvements from you playing with your mini

Thats another problem with the mini i guess. Limited to 4 gigs of ram , 256 meg framebuffer , single core cpu.

 

the ion 2 will launch on 55nm. They need a good bulk production line . 40nm right now is not the right platform to launch the ion 2 on , it wont get the production runs it needs and yields will be much lower than 55nm as it continues to ramp up.

 

so let me get this straight, any stick laptop stick with specs like this-
2GB 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500)
Cas Latency: 7
Voltage: 1.5V
ECC: No
Buffered/Registered: Unbuffered
Heat Spreader: No

should work just fine?

 

Just bought one of these over the weekend as I couldn't resist and wanted to try one out soooo badly after reading the reviews + 40+ page thread here. The Office Depot closest to me (not very close since a lot of their stores closed around me) had 1 left. Its the Standard model with Atom N270, 1GB DDR3, 160GB, etc. Its a very nice netbook and the ION graphics are great (can play my 720P MKV shows finally with VLC player) but like ArchAngel the 1366x768 res on the 11.6" LCD makes the text a bit too small for me as I have bad eyesight. Everyone else I asked said the text size is fine so its just me and my poor eyes. Anyone want to buy it for actual cost ($435.xx with NY tax) and I'll pay shipping? You'll save on HP's ridiculous $30-$40 shipping cost and you'll gete it in 3days or less lol

 

They pulled the Windows 7 drivers from their website... Bummer, Just as I was about to install Windows 7 RC1 32-bit... This is dissapointing. Also, anyone find it crappy that they did not post all the drivers for Windows XP? Missing BT, etc...

 

I just ordered one of these from HP UK site. Its listed at £330 but I found a 10% code to bring it down to £296, plus Quidco cashback of 4% which should bring it down to about £284. Thats not a lot more than the netbook average over here in UK of around £250.
This blows the average netbook out of the water though with the specs.
I noticed the UK Compaq unit I ordered has bluetooth as standard. I think thats an optional extra on the US HP model? Its strange the UK HP site doenst let you build a spec like the US one seems to do. Just set packages.
I am looking at about £36 for a 2 gig DDR3 module. Hoping this thing handles Half Life 2 and Medievel 2 ok

 

Seriously? The ones from the mini 100?

Does anyone have these who can provide a link? Very much appreciated!

 

Nope, they pulled the link for the HP MINI 311 drivers for Windows 7 32bit and 64bit. They only have XP, and even those are partial only. The nVidia chipset driver fails completely due to an extract error. I downloaded the file on three different machines, so I know that my side isn't the problem. They put a corrupt driver archive on their website. It missing the wireless and bluetooth drivers as well. They really need to get their act together... You can't sell a product and not provide the drivers required for any type of reinstall. Ahh, well... Bummer. I may try the HP MINI 110 drivers if they still exist.

 

Please help, those of you who own the mini 311....

Are you guys having issues with the battery?

Im using the stock xp with sp3 install and when its on battery power, first issue is that it will stay on 100% for awhile then the next increment is like 93%. Also when battery percentage is displayed it doesnt show remaining time? are all mini 311's like this?

to those who are running vista or win7 on the mini 311.. does your battery do this as well? or does it actually show remaining time and correct percentage increments?

thanks!

 

I dont know if this was posted, but the Mini 311 will carry ION and up to 80GB SSD.
More info at electronista.com

 

Asus is coming out with an ion platform . 12.1inch 1366x768 screen with a dual core 1.6ghz atom and the ion , 3 gigs of ram and 320 gig hardrive and win 7 home premium. If this comes in around $450 its a much better deal sadly. Unless they cut prices on the hp mini 311

 

Yes, I posted that too, in the MSI U210 Review thread...
More info too on electronista...lol

 

Mine does the same thing on XP. Nothing to worry about. HP has 'NEVER' had the feature of showing you how much time is left. Mainly because it isn't accurate anyway. Depending on load and what you are doing it can double power consumption and give you the false assumption of battery life.

 

I don't understand... The Mini already does carry ION. The 80GB SSD isn't a big deal, it could take a 160GB DIY, or even larger if you wanted. Paying for it pre-shipped is going to cost you a pretty penny.

 

nice. It looks like its in everyones best interest to wait till the 22nd. Not only will the mini get updates but other ion platforms will come out .

The dual atom fixes one of the major problems I had with the platform and it should also have 64bit support.

 

maybe if they had it in 11.6", 6 hour battery life, windows xp, for $450 i would wait ... but i wait and wait and wait and the hype usually so far exceeds the reality ... even 11.6" is too big for me to carry around, if i'm going 12" i might as well get the dv2 which is an actual laptop with real power, but it costs $700 and the battery life is only like 3 hours ... i just argue myself into circles and after a while i just want to buy something dammit ... this 10 lb 17" monster barely more powerful than an abacus is killing me

 

8 hours of battery life.

At this point though atsai its best to wait to the 22nd. Just what 10 days and there will be a ton of options.

 

The mini currently has only an ion le which is limited to dx 10.

The other hardrives are good because it removes the cost of the original drive from the upgrade. Sometimes it may be cheaper to get the ssd from them instead of by yourself.

The dv4t on hp.com comes with a 160gig drive but you can get a 500 gig drive for $50 instead. A 500 gig drive on newegg for a laptop is $80 bucks . So you end up saving money.

 

I'm really doubting the battery life claim of 8 hours on that given how much more TDP the dual core has.

 

Wow, what a poor crap shoot Windows 7 was. This thing runs horrible in Windows Vista. Something HAS to be wrong, but with HP not posting any drivers, I had resort to nVidia's website. Anyway, LOTRO took roughly a 50% frame rate cut! I am going to install XP back on this thing ASAP.

 

are you trying to run it in dx 10 mode ?

 

Nope, it is running in DX9.

 

My full copy of Windows 7 Ultimate came in from Microsoft today. The 32 bit version is 2.32GB big. I'm going to fully wipe the HDD and install it clean. ill let you know how it goes.

I'm doing it by Flash Drive btw. =)

 

i don't really believe 8 hours either ...

at this point i don't see anything i like more than the 311, since it's cheap and does the job. the question is whether something else does it for cheaper, or better for the same price -- and i don't see anything like that on the horizon. 11.6" was already a little over my target size (less than a sheet of paper), so unless the bezel is razor thin, i don't really want to go to 12.1". at 12" i might as well get a dv2 -- a 12" full-on laptop. but at that point i'm not really mobile anymore and i might as well get a REAL laptop, xps 13, 13.3" core 2 duo with 512 mb discrete graphics. which brings me back to the original point -- to get something which simply gets the job done, which is the 311. and my experience says that i regret wasting money on hypothetical future potential rather than only paying for what i will use.

 

If anything, I'd just wait until Windows 7 launches. Unlike HP who wanted to get the Mini 311 out before Windows 7, most other OEMs are tight lipped about their Windows 7 product offerings. Unless the HP Mini 311 is exactly what you are looking for, ordering it today won't get it in your hands before Oct. 22nd, and by then you might have changed your mind.

 

After my reinstall of Windows XP and utilizing the drivers by hooking up my origonal drive that came with the Mini I found that custom resolutions work just fine.

So I was able to run 3DMark06 on BATTERY at 1024X600 to compare it directly to the Asus N10J. Here are the results on a stock HP Mini 311

3DMarks = 1881

SM2 778
SM3 858
CPU 517

Looks like it out classes the N10J... Now if only we can figure out how to overclock the CPU.

And... So far Windows 7 was garbage for this system. I run Windows 7 on my beast of a rig and it is wonderful, but I don't think it is cut out for the netbooks, IMO. Something is missing, even with the correct ION Drivers (from nVidia) for the chipset and video. It was just so... choppy... I even disabled Aero and it didn't really fair any better. I am running a Indillinx based 64GB SSD (they are rather fast, second only to Intel) and XP is far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaar snappier than Windows 7 RC1. I am keeping Windows XP on this little machine. Less space, seems to run fine... I like it.

 

you sure the drivers for win 7 aren't screwing up with the ion because its trying to run the dx 10 enhancements for the aero glass ?

 

I agree with atsai, waiting is not always that rewarding...

For me, 11.6" screen and 399$ price is the limit for netbooks. You can buy a proper laptop with a proper dual-core processor for not much more, so paying more than 400$ isn't really worth it.

As for the ASUS 1201N, it sounds great, but the DDR2 RAM probably kills Ion, as it relies on shared memory. DDR2 vs DDR3 will make a hell of a difference, at least on games and similar tasks. Also, whilst the Atom 330 is a great upgrade, the performance is only about 20% on select tasks, e.g. it's not going to make a world of a difference in real life and it's still no match for those CULV processors. I'd still like to see the 8 hour battery life demonstrated, though.

 

Havc .

The hp uses ddr 3 1066 that gives you 8533MB/s with 7.5ns cycle time. ddr 2 800 would give u 6,400MB/s but a cycle time of only 5ns

now your right you are loosing bandwidth. However I don't see any mention of the mini using dual channel ram and that feature may not be avalible because of the cost of ddr 3. If one of these laptops use dual channel while the other doesn't the advantage would surely go to that. The ddr 2 dual channel would give you 12,800MB/s

Though more importantly your gaining another core on the cpu which may end up making a bigger diffrence on newer games than bandwidth loss.

Then we don't know if the ion on the asus will be gimped at 256 megs of ram. 512 megs would be ideal as many games of the last 2-3 years are programed for those capaictys. 1 gig would be even better.

I'm not sure why you think the dual core atom is only 20% faster

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=664&type=expert&pid=1

This is using the ion and a dual core vs single core atom. Yes they are both using ddr 3 ram. But its the best i can do , its very hard to find reviews of mobile products.

Feel free to skim them all but look at gaming

Vantage cpu saw a 76 , and 68% improvement .

Valve source particle simulation showed an almost doubling of performance going from 9 to 17fps

What this means is that in cpu limited gaming you can see a huge improvement in frame rates. With such a weak cpu already the improvements can be very important.


http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=663&type=expert&pid=4

Here he compares a single core atom vs dual core . Its the same cpu just with one core disabled. The dual core offers 19.1fps average vs 11.1 fps minimum went from 2 fps to 7 fps and max had a huge shot up from 21 to 35 fps .

Move foward to the ion video decoding your still using 20% of the cpu. With dual core you'd have alot more power to do other things while watching video. It would easily be possible to watch a video through hdmi on a tv while surfing the web and chatting on line on the netbook.

the quesiton is , the lack of badnwidth worth the greater cpu power.

I'm still looking at the mini 311 more so than any other platfoms . I jsut want to see how things shake out. If hp offered the dual core atom in the 311 I would buy it in a second .

Also I don't see why people aren't waiting till the 22nd anyway , the ion is locked as an le right now , after the 22nd with win 7 they will have the dx 10 ion for sale.

 

Touché. My "data" on the 20% speed improvement came from here, which probably isn't that correct or complete. I do not wish to further hijack the thread with my irrelevant opinions, so I'll just leave it at that.

I'm in the market for a notebook, and even though netbooks aren't touted as primary computers, I think they make perfect coding machines. With Ion in the game, there's not much they can't do (even if a bit slowly). Competition is great, so I'll just wait for the current crop of Ion netbooks to come out for a bit of comparison.

The HP Mini 311 looks beautiful, though! For the people that bought it, what are your general impressions thus far?

 

Drivers would probably correct this, perhaps some will be released after the 22nd. Anyone else have Windows 7 installed that has this impression?

I was looking forward to running it

 

As I stated in a previous post, I am 100% certain. I always disable Aero on my systems because I personally hate it.

 

Windows XP 3DMARK06 Score: 1470

Windows 7 Ultimate Signature Edition 3DMARK06 Score: 1240

*3DMARK06 On Default Settings w/ 1GB of Ram*

Drivers are correct. Windows 7 does not utilize the hardware like Windows XP does because its designed for more powerful systems like Arch stated. I'm getting major improvments in performance w/ my gaming desktop and ASUS notebook plus I know its not a driver issue. BIOS could be the problem though but its gonna be at least 3 months before I get a definite answer on that.


Unlike ArchAngel777 I'm going to keep Windows 7 on this netbook because we have different reasons to own it. He is looking for max performance. How much power per watt can he get. I want to balance power w/ beauty. Show that netbooks can be a daily computer for the average consumer and spending $600+ is no longer required. Bigger is not always better.

Also please go to the ASUS 1201N thread to speculate its unconfirmed specs please. Asus 1201N & 1201HA Leaked Specs

 

Well, looks like I'll be waiting even longer then... I want something that can game decently and run Windows 7.

 

what version of nividia video drivers did you use with windows7?

might want to try the other 186.18 whql driver for win7 since that is the closest version to the ones that hp supplys for windows xp which are 186.27 beta

 

I installed 191.07. I'm not w/ my netbook atm so ill check for sure later.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista_32bit_191.07_whql.html

 

Its interesting , the gateway amd netbook becomes much faster with windows 7. Do you think its the atom cpu thats the problem under windows 7 ?

 

hrm ... the hp mini 311 is 11.4" x 8" x 1.2", and the asus 1201n is reportedly barely any bigger at 11.7" x 8.2" x 1.3", but with a 12.1" screen and should be a better computer (n330 and claimed 8 hour battery life, though it doesn't seem to make sense based on what we've seen from other atoms). yet when i checked on nettop n330 ion systems the 3dmark06 was only 1400. waiting is pretty annoying, but if it's all true, i'd go with the 1201n if it were $500 or less ...

 

The Atom Processor went down 18pts in 3DMark06 but could be the issue if the information isnt being processed as fast for the ION to work properly. The bottlenecking in Win7 is much more evident but that could be one of multiple issues.

When it comes to booting, loading pages, and installing programs its working better. Video and gaming has decreased but not by a lot.


My 2GB stick came in today so ill install it tonite and check out the performance differences.

 

i would try the older 186.XX whql set of drivers for video, and then nvidia newest or a lil older chipset drivers, and leave windows 7 handle the idt audio driver and wireless and lan driver. also disable aero and transparency in win7 and try to tweak out the background processes windows7 runs all the time. Then youll get a dedicated score for 3dmark06. It wont be a comparable score if win7 somehow is still using the WMI 1.1 for 3d effects for the desktop and os, u want it like in 2d gui mode so it aint using the gpu at all...

 

The problem with the N230 Versus N330 is essentially 2 logical cores versus 4 logical cores. This is why the upgrade is actually less than you would see from a standard single core to a dual core.

Let me try and explain. Most games are currently either single or dual threaded. Very few games take advantage of more than two threads. This may change in the future, but for now, the mainstream is pretty much dual threaded.

Now what throws this for a twist is that Atom is already dual threaded via HT. Now, we all know that HT isn't as good as another core, but it does improve performance over single core from 20%-50% in most cases. This is why the N330 is not as much of an upgrade as people think. Your not moving from 1 core to 2 cores, you are moving from 2 cores to 4 cores (because of HT, you have two logical cores that can execute a thread each). So, moving back to the fact that most games are only dual threaded, in these cases you are only moving from 2 logical cores to 2 physical cores, where as the performance from 1 physical core to 2 physicals cores is much, much greater.

Now, fast forward - Should games take advantage of 3 and 4 threads, you will see the N330 distance itself from the N230. But that may be a ways off, and depending on the demands of tomorrows games, a N330 might not be enough even if the program is quad threaded.

BUT, with that said, I'd still prefer a N330 mobile variant over an N230 mobile variant. It is just that the performance isn't as great as it normally would be due to the high efficiency of hyper threading and most games only running two threads. Again, this only applies to dual threaded games. When you have have tri and quad threaded titles, the N330 will distance itself from the N230. But for now, the difference is and will be... marginal.

 

Thats simple not true. Hyper threading doesn't mean there are two real cores. having dual cores will allways be faster than hyper threading on a single core. Hyper threading on a dual core device will be faster than a dual core device and hyper threading on a quad core will be faster than 4 cores. I've already posted a link showing the performance increase.

You will never make up for having more physical cores.