*HP dv6z AMD Llano (6XXX series) Owners Lounge*

iirc, you ordered last Wednesday, right HT? HP usually gets CTO notebooks out after exactly 7 days as long as all the parts are in stock.

 

Well I ordered mine on 7-13 and no news as of yet.

 

I have played a couple games with my a6-3400m and all have played....EXCELLENT. Bad company 2 ran smooth as butter on medium, old games like counterstrike source and day of defeat and ridiculously good. The CPU intensive gave sc2 runs awesome too on medium, i was getting 40-60 fps, The game i was playing was Nexus wars though so towards the end of the game it got down to 15.. lol but that's to be expected with the thousands of units attacking you. Overall this laptop has performed awesome!!

 

Yeah, Tuesday, but late Tuesday I believe.

 

@dajohn - You have the A6-3400m/512MB 6490m combo, right?

 

For anyone who cares, the 120 watt PSU is back in stock on HP's accessory store. The dv6z configuration page only lists a 90 watt one if you're buying a spare (as I always do), but you can just but the 120 separately instead.

Dang it, with this coupon, I can't believe I'm resisting at all LOL. Such a good deal.

 

yeah i just tried out l4d2 on all high and got 50fps with it dipping down to 30 in intense situations. Its doing pretty good!

 

Would you mind running some synthetic benchmarks like 3dMark06/Vantage/11? Some have theorized Crossfire would be more efficient with that combo because the two cards are so even they might combine better.

 

Sure, no problem id be glad to ill post up the results when i have them

 

So my dv6z QE is in transit! Can't wait to play with it!

 

On 7-19? , mine should be shipping to, same build. 1080 screen and 3530 proc.

 

I've checked newegg and they have 1600mhz ddr3 with cl9...is that laptop norm? I was aiming for more like cl 7. Anyone have input? I'm not too familiar with laptop RAm.

 

WOOOT! Just shipped!

 

Considering that the voltage limit for notebook memory is usually 1.5V? Yes, CL 9 is great for a notebook. Also, considering that most CPUs have integreated memory controllers in them, the latency rating doesn't mean close to anything.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

New drivers! 11.8 is here. Abbadon, mind installing and re running some benches?

AMD Catalyst 11.8 Preview Driver download from Guru3D.com

 

lol. I just updated to 11.7. Let me try those out first then I will decide whether to update to 11.8. I am not a big fan of preview drivers, anyway.

 

Hah, I never am either. Been on 11.6 on my M15x.

 

@abaddon here they are
Generic VGA video card benchmark result - AMD A6-3400M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics,Hewlett-Packard 358C score: 5232 3DMarks
Generic VGA video card benchmark result - AMD A6-3400M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics,Hewlett-Packard 358C score: 5229 3DMarks
first w/ crossfire second w/o not much difference, ^3Dmark06
Generic VGA video card benchmark result - AMD A6-3400M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics,Hewlett-Packard 358C score: 4384 PCMarks
^vantage w/ crossfire , only let me do it once with the trial key
Generic VGA video card benchmark result - AMD A6-3400M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics,Hewlett-Packard 358C score: P1168 3DMarks
3mark11 with crossfire
All these seemed horrible watching them, but gaming even online with the games i own is extremely good so idk what to make of it.

 

3DMark Vantage and 3DMark11 will stress your system and won't look fluid. It's the end result that matters. And even then benchmarks don't tell the whole story. If you can game at resolution and detail that makes you happy, that's what matters.

 

au contraire ...makes a big difference in this laptop. with an i series laptop you are correct, but with the llano, it can make a very big difference.

seer

 

Source??

The only thing that Llano loves is more memory bandwidth (speed/frequency) because of it's CPU and GPU bandwidth sharing design. The two cores (GPU and CPU) use a coherent request queue to delegate bandwidth allocation between each one. This controller makes no use of higher / lower timings but instead pure bandwidth to be able to send more cycles out.

I would love to see what you saw stating that memory timings are very important to Llano performance.

 

"the bottom line here is simple: if you want to get the best horsepower out of a Llano-based APU, that graphics engine needs to breathe. Memory able to support a high data rate at low latencies is absolutely imperative for the best possible frame rates in games.

Don’t sweat DDR3-1866 if it means CAS 8 or 9 timings. Aggressively-tuned DDR3-1600 looks to be the sweet spot."

From perhaps the most indepth printed analysis of the LLano platform, the Tom's Hardware reviewer who spent some evenings with the gigabyte and ASrock techies who were churning out new bios's in real time for him to test while overclocking their respective boards. This observation has been confirmed by several other noted reviewers and personally to me by a friend who is also investigating the performance potential of the LLano platform. This fellows credentials are such that ...well, if he was to walk in on a private back room dinner at say the Four Seasons or similar, and Gates, Allen, Jobs and Woz were seated at the table, he'd be asked to sit down and join them.

Seer

 

Tom's Hardware didn't compare same frequency RAM with different latencies... As the benchmark shows, the performance jump from 1600mhz to 1800mhz wasn't nearly as big as from 1333mhz to 1600mhz. That's what he means by "sweet spot", as in best price/performance ratio. As you can see, the 1600mhz RAM with a higher CAS timing was able to out-perform the 1333mhz RAM with a lower CAS by quite a bit.

This is because CAS timings at different frequencies don't reflect actual latency. This is because CAS latency (in modern RAM, at least), is measured in clock cycles and at higher clocks even a higher CAS number might have lower latency. I suspect this is what Nakano2k1 was getting at.

However, the diminishing return of 1800mhz RAM doesn't apply to OP because he's looking to upgrade to 1600mhz. I have yet to see a review comparing the performance of same frequency/different timings, but if the Tom's Hardware review indicates anything, it's that the performance from lower CAS timings is marginal compared to a frequency bump and that CAS timings can be misleading.

 

I did not reach the same conclusion you have. As I noted above, based on the information I have available at the moment, I'll be looking for 1600 ram (the max the mobile version supports) with the lowest cas timings I can get. Everyone is free to pursue performance sweetness in their own manner. When I get my box, I'll see what I can do with it and post the results and compare to all those with similar configurations and we will see.
Nothing like empirical evidence
seer
for those really interested in why llano reacts differently you'll want to do some research on two unique aspects of the chip. the FCL or "fusion control link" and the RMB, i.e. "Radeon Memory Bus".

Edit: Just got a note in from a reviewer as follows:
"Memory timings are very important. AMD told all reviewers not to exchange high frequency for loose timings. When looking for memory for your Llano-based desktop, shoot for the tightest latencies at the highest frequency you can afford. CAS latency 8 is the highest I’d recommend. In the initial review, we used DDR3-1866 with timings of 8-9-8-24. Those timings would be decent for DDR3-1600 too, but a bit tighter would be preferable."
Note, he's working with a desktop variant, not the mobile, again 1600 is the max that HP allows (tho we *might* be able to push that a bit

 

In case anyone is wondering, I updated to 11.7 drivers earlier today and they don't seem to do much. In synthetic benchmarks the scores are pretty much the same and the average FPS is BC2 and Metro 2033 doesn't seem changed, though it might be more constant with less fluctuation

 

You guys ought to remember that they tested the memory's influence with the desktop chip, which has over 50% higher frequency than the laptop's one.
Point is: don't expect a large increase in frame rate.

 

It'd be good if someone tested it out!

 

Yes Ernestds, but remember, we're talking about overclocked mobiles...some guys are sitting on very similar numbers now-between 2600 and 3000. One guy has gotten over 3100 but is still sorting out stability issues.

As far as frame rates go, just talking about the igp, people have gotten upwards of 30 percent improvement in igp performance with a simple overclock . That's not counting any input from a dedicated in dual graph mode, much less the input from an overclocked dedicated card. Amd has informed us that properly timed dual graphics by itself can give up to 75 percent improvement over the discrete cards numbers alone in a suitably threaded application. The full capability of the llano platforms is still being explored ;P

seer

 

you're insane if you believe the marketing numbers by AMD. 75% improvement is not going to happen. right now an optimistic projection is 30%

 

75% might be possible when paired with a 6470m or something, but it's pretty much impossible with the 6750m.

A 30% increase would be like 60% scaling, so that sounds reasonable with better drivers.

 

I don't talk to marketing types.
seer

 

R3d, I'm thinking along the same lines as you, but then again, I didn't design the thing so I'm not in a position to call the guys that did, insane. After all, I would never have thought of a graphics bus that completely circumvents the memory controller either sooo, who knows LOL.

seer

 

is it just me or did anyone tried "re-assesing" the windows index scoring and got a fairly low score than before on graphics and gaming.

HP Drivers scored 6.3+ on that area.
but after updating them to catalyst 11.7, the scored went below 4.0

 

I can't find anything with 4GB+1600Mhz+CL7-or-CL8+SODIMM+One slot, i find 4gb+cl9 or 2gb+cl7. I want 8GB of that RAM on my laptop, so if you have any luck with your search please let me know

 

I also had noch luck with the 11.7+ 11.8 drivers, OC wasn´t possible anymore, instant bluescreen.

3Mark06 Scores with 2,6Ghz CPU and 780/950 6750-GPU:
HP Drivers 10363 3DMarks
Official 11.6 10561 3DMarks

 

I didn't find anything either, so I made a few calls to see what was in the pipeline and was told by both crucial and pny of all people that "its on the way".

Seer

 

I know an unlocked version of the desktop Llano is in the works. I wonder if there is also going to be one for the mobile market and they are going to try and lock things down to force peeps to pay up for a new version. I hate that btw. Intel took a lot of flack for that with the new SB's but pretty much just blew everyone off, which is what happens when you get a market dominating corp. AMD would be well advised to not follow that path. That being said, the real gold mine for o'clocking the llano is by upping the reference clock, not changing pstates. The mem controller is VERY robust. Some desktop testers have gotten good 1866ish ram running solid at 2240 or so with very little voltage increase. I *really* want to get my box in hand to go explore this area. I'm told the upcoming low lat Crucial 4gig 1600 sticks for the mobile platform are 'very VERY fasssst".
One of the things Intel did with SB was to lock pretty much ALL subsystems to a single clock, and then put the clock on chip where its hard as hell to get at it. AMD didn't go that route so it's possible (with the right bios etc.) to up one bus, without pushing esata or pcie for instance, to the point where they no longer function. The desktop guys have found that pushing the reference clock from 100 to clear up to 136 to the 140's has a dramatic effect on fps in games. My thinking is that as R3d pointed out, the 67XX cards really overpower the onchip igp when in dual graphics mode, SOOO, the more we can do to up the performance of the igp, the better chance it has of reaching suitable interleaving rates with the 67xx's, and giving us a bunch more DG performance (with appropriately threaded games and apps).

Also, as the other poster who jumped on me, correctly pointed out, faster memory by itself has a big effect due to the concurrent nature of the mem bus queuing, however, some clever amd engineer talked them into building in a way for the graphics system to bypass the on chip mem manager altogether sooo the limitations you would normally expect to see, well you don't In any event, for those that like to *tinker*, it looks like AMD will be the platform of choice in the futue. Intel seems clearly headed off in another direction. I am REALLY looking forward to Trinity, and Komodo , especially now that preliminary reports are that Ivy is no big deal, just an opportunity for a market leader to cram yet another socket/platform down everyone's throat.
In the meantime, can't wait to jump into the Llano *pool* with the rest of you guys who already have their systems in hand

Seer
Disclaimer; For those thinking I'm an AMD "fanboy" or such, well, sometimes I am, and sometime's I'm not I currently have a "whole bunch" of systems, mostly Intel, including my main audio/visual processing box based on a seriously o'clocked i2600K. I also have a whacked out 4.1 ghz PhenomII 965BE (air) based system for "fooling around' with a couple of modded evga superclocked 480's in it for gaming and using as a 'space heater" ;P. It's waiting for a Dozer to arrive As I type this I'm looking at 7 fully functional laptops with a bunch more in another room with an original Compaq xt luggable., and an AT version I built myself...not to mention the two DEC Alpha's I have running 64 bit NT (no such thing well, not officially anyway *wink*). Bottom line, if it isn't boring, I'll give it a go.

 

I just buy whatever is the best within my price range. Never understood fanboyism.

Who said Ivy Bridge is no big deal? At least a 30% graphics increase combined with much higher clocks is a solid product, despite no architectural changes. We might see 2500k performance from a mobile chip. If you're talking about the yield problems, I'd be much more worried about AMD encountering those than someone with the resources of Intel. And it isn't using a new socket, it's supposed to use the same LGA1155.

I find it incredibly naive when people say that Intel is an evil monopolistic company. If AMD was in Intel's spot they would not think twice to overcharge the consumer and maximize their profit margins. That's the nature of the game and it's foolish to think that one company is any more noble than another. Reminds me of the deluded PC gamers that think Valve is some sinless company and EA is the devil.

It seems to me that AMD's future plans are the product of their inability to compete in the CPU realm only so they are forced to pursue whatever else they can to compete. People give these companies too much credit. The only reason why we have cores is because they couldn't push the clock speed higher. Likewise the only reason why AMD is pushing Fusion is because they're losing the CPU battle. And the only reason why we don't see APU-esque stuff from Intel is cause they suck at graphics.

 

Ivy Bridge is using the same socket for desktops but it's not going to be compatible with mobile systems and only desktop systems that support a BIOS update for Ivy Bridge.

Ivy Bridge will be a good step forward, and imho Intel needs to concentrate on IGP over CPU because their CPU's are plenty powerful for the time being. The problem is Intel doesn't know how to do GPU design.

On another note, since my laptop shipped, I got my $50 credit due to the $50 price drop.

 

sweet nice to hear they are coming thru.

seer

 

Hmm. I wonder if Trinity is going to use the same socket as Llano...

edit:

Yeah I'm hoping that AMD will allow overclocking the iGPU in dual graphics mode... Combined with suitable 1600mhz RAM the iGPU might be capable of a 1:2 frame rendering ratio with the 6750m, which would mean a 50% performance boost!

 

Did it show up as a credit on your CC? The invoice I got with my shipping notice did not show a change.

 

I don't talk to marketing types.
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Further, if you're gettiing your igp butkiss whacked by a 2 or 3 to one margin, a 30 percent increase in your igp performance isn't exactly rocking my world...otherwise, for the most part, ivy is a die shrink..whoopee. PLUS, if you really are interested in intel's igp performance, look up some comparo's on what the frames it generates look like, compared to an amd or nvidia gpu. In the name of generating better fps numbers, they have cut corners in their rendering that are simply astonishing...as Jag said, intel really can't do graphics.

seer

As for the nature of corporations, anyone that thinks they are benevolent organizations existing for the purpose of maximizing profits for the shareholders is a fool, no doubt raised on the pablum fed by the likes of the Harvard Business School, the best organization I ever attended for churning out mid level managers. Corporations are a piece of paper insulating top level management and sometimes principal owners/controllers from personal liability for the actions they take in their goals of accumulating personal wealth. Period, end of story. Corporations are neither good, nor evil, they just are. The people that run them, however, are an entirely different matter LOL. Intel's mgt has over the years committed a vast number of criminal, and other unlawful acts in the guise of 'competition' for which the corporation they run, has paid gobs of money. It is frankly a miracle that amd even survives to this day. I can tell you that 'business' between the *big boys* is mostly war, without guns; and sometimes, WITH guns. God the american public education system sux....

rant over
sorry, just an old man venting, BUT, venting about something he happens to know something about..

seer

 

dajohn - What are your temps when gaming like?

 

Not yet, but got an email confirmation from HP stating $50 credit to my Visa. As usual they say it can take several business days for the credit to show. Of course banks do this so they can hold on to your money longer.

 

Hey Guys,

What is this $50 price credit that everyone is talking about? I should be getting my DV6T today with the same specs as HTWingNut. Thanks.

 

jump back a few pages in the thread and you'll see that the base price of the dv6s' dropped 50 bux. A Bunch of us, at I believe WingNut's instigation, called in complaining we should get a credit on the price drop and almost all of us did.

Seer

 

DV6z has the AMD CPU and 6750m GPU. The DV6t has the Intel CPU and 6770m GPU. DV6z base price dropped $50 in the last week, so anyone who ordered in the last couple weeks are asking to get that $50 refunded.

If you have the DV6t, then its base price remained the same, so no discount.

 

I don't the we can easily overclock the iGPU - not with K10Stat anyway. I tried overclocking the B0 and P0 state to 2600Mhz and, sure enough, the processor subscore jumped in the WEI but the graphics' scores didn't .