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    *HP dv7t (1XXX series) Owners Lounge*

    Discussion in 'HP' started by Dabman, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. CrashConrad

    CrashConrad Notebook Enthusiast

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    TDTex - ask in the dv5t thread what Nvidia video driver version they have.... since ours came out later, we might have updated drivers; though not sure if that is enough to justify a 500pt increase...

    My version is 175.53
     
  2. Arbuckle

    Arbuckle Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi HP-Fans,

    Hit me (not what you think), but i'm too foul to search this tread, so my Question for the dv7-Series:

    Which EU-Models (e.g. FP745eg / FP748eg) have a Fingerprinter (and have them then a TPM-Chip) ?


    Thanks
    Arbuckle
     
  3. CrashConrad

    CrashConrad Notebook Enthusiast

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    Don't know of HP's specific EU site, but here's the link for dv7's available in GB.

    HP's GB site doesn't seem to show or annotate that any of the dv7 models come with the fingerprint reader in my quick searching.
     
  4. CrashConrad

    CrashConrad Notebook Enthusiast

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    And the support site says 'select models only', so it may not be available over there yet... Have you tried chatting with one of their online advisors?
     
  5. LiH2.com

    LiH2.com Notebook Enthusiast

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    pcmark05 - dont mind, it is old now

    Looks great ! :cool:

    Can it be your cpu ? ram ? rpm ?

    But anyway, that was a cool score !

    Is it possible to add the info in the first post ?! :)

    Even if the low end dv7 score 3600 ->, it is a nice machine to :D
    ( is was a 5000$ laptop 2 years ago :eek: )

    Do anyone have a dv7 with the P7350 ? 2 gb ? 5400 rpm ?
    and can you tell your pcmark06 :)

    ( I was in the shop to buy it, but I had to comeback after 7 aug. :( )
     
  6. mnp2005

    mnp2005 Notebook Consultant

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    where can i get drivers for the 9600m gt graphics card?
     
  7. LiH2.com

    LiH2.com Notebook Enthusiast

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  8. GolfinPanda

    GolfinPanda Notebook Geek

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    wait i just ordered my laptop. and its comin in tomorrow. do i need to download that driver?
     
  9. LiH2.com

    LiH2.com Notebook Enthusiast

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    No you don't.

    When you buy a computer the drivers will follow -
    if the drivers don't come with your computer, it most be a mistake !

    For updates of the drivers of your computer
    they are often to find on the website where you did buy your computer !

    For HP computer that is the case !
    where - go to www.hp.com find you computer model and if there is new
    drivers for your computer, they will be there - remember to go your country !
     
  10. mlspace

    mlspace Newbie

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    Hi HP guys!!
    I live in Uruguay, and asked a friend to buy me a dv7 1020us laptop before he comes to visit me. This model is good enough for my neccesities. But I am afraid of ONE THING... Has anybody seen the metal finish of this pc? Does it seem to get " unpainted" too soon?? I will spend a lot of money, and would be really upset if after some months, it gets bad... Perhaps I can buy a 9900 series that we know it has a "permanent" finish...
    Please give me some advice, because after I receive it here in Uruguay, I will NOT BE ABLE TO make any changes..
    Thanks a lot, and congratulations!!! :)
     
  11. Steve08

    Steve08 Notebook Enthusiast

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  12. fluffqueen01

    fluffqueen01 Newbie

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    Anyone have any trouble with shipping? I ordered mine on the 18th. It was supposed to be built and shipped by the 28th. Status shows it is still not shipped, just has the date for the 28th yet. Just received an email from customer service after I questioned it that they are having a problem with components being out of stock and backordered.
     
  13. fluffqueen01

    fluffqueen01 Newbie

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    When did you order yours? I ordered mine on the 18th. It was sue to be shipped on the 28th, and it still has not shipped.
     
  14. Luvmylaptop

    Luvmylaptop Notebook Enthusiast

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    They now have 50% off 4 gigs of RAM
     
  15. Luvmylaptop

    Luvmylaptop Notebook Enthusiast

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    Also, what is firewire? I just noticed that on their site this morning.
     
  16. ETK

    ETK Newbie

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    I just placed an order for mine yesterday. Here's something that might be of interest to many if it's true. I spoke to an HP sales rep who advised me that you can not upgrade a single drive system to a dual drive system later because they use a different chassis and "motherboard configuration". Perhaps this also explains the HDD vent issue? Could it be that single drive 5400RPM systems do not come with vents where as dual 7200RPM ones do? Maybe some folks who already received their notebook can comment?

    My only complaint about the notebook configuration is the mandatory glossy screen. I just don't understand the trend for glossy. The signal to noise ratio on them is terrible, even in low light situations. Fortunately there seems to be a growing market for matte anti-glare screen covers, so it wasn't a deal breaker for me. Still, I would have actually paid $100 extra for a built in matte screen.
     
  17. teraflop122

    teraflop122 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I just got my single drive model earlier today. It CAN take two hard drives, but the second mounting bracket isn't included. Also, the drive spaces are only about an inch apart, arranged end to end, in the bottom right corner of the chassis. The expresscard slot is on the opposite side from the hard drives, but the included pop-out remote still gets nice and toasty after a few minutes :p

    Also, I just got to say that I'm not overly impressed with the screen (edit: the 1440x900 option). At the highest brightness setting, the screen just washes out. At the next brightest setting, it's too dark. The acceptable viewing angle is narrow; too far back and the screen gets murky, too far forwards and it washes out even further. The colors are not vivid at all. Then again, the only comparisons I have are a 1920x1200 24" KDS LCD and one of Dells 22 inchers. I may be asking too much of a laptop screen... though I wonder how it compares to one of Dell's LED backlit screens.

    The screen alone is enough to make me reconsider this laptop.

    EDIT:

    The TV tuner works well enough. I've found no simple way to switch between atsc and ntsc antenna signals within Media Center. It's easy enough in HP's Quicklaunch app. I couldn't get a good analog signal, but I was able to pick up ABC on digital, and the picture was pretty crisp and clear. Having never owned an HDTV, that doesn't mean much coming from me :p The laptop comes with two remotes; one fits neatly into the expresscard slot, the other looks a little like the HDX's remote, maybe a tad larger.

    The subwoofer is nice; the bass is pretty strong, but the midrange volume is almost nonexistent. I suspect this could be tweaked somewhat with the IDT audio settings' equalizer. Output through the headphone port is nice and clear compared to some older Dell notebooks. I've already got 5.1 logitech speakers plugged in (not running in 5.1 of course). I suppose I should mention that the audio gave me trouble initially; the stereo speakers seemed not to be working at all, and instead I got a trully horrible, distorted output. The problem apparently resolved itself upon the second or third reboot.

    EDIT2:

    After loading a few games and using it for a while, the screen doesn't seem half as bad as it originally did. Sure, it isn't fantastic, but it's not bad. Bright images- or web pages- appear with good color and contrast. With darker images the backlight near the bottom of the screen becomes increasingly obvious.
     
  18. touchdowntexas18

    touchdowntexas18 Notebook Enthusiast

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    alright guys so i have encountered a slight curiosity and question with my dv7t. to make a long story short, i bought the dv7t with pretty decent specs:

    Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
    Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9400 (2.53 GHz) FBS-1066 MHz 6Mb internal memory L2 cache
    17.0" diagonal WXGA+ High-Definition HP BrightView Infinity Display (1440 x 900)
    4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
    512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
    HP Imprint Finish (Mesh)+Microphone + Webcam + Fingerprint Reader for HP BrightView Infinity Display
    FREE Upgrade to Intel(R) WiFi Link 5100AGN and Bluetooth(TM)
    320GB 7200RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (160GB x 2) with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
    LightScribe SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-RW with Double Layer Support
    3-year HP Accidental Damage Protection with HP Pick Up and Return
    no high speed modem port
    no tv tuner
    no verizon wireless broadband

    however the wireless card was defective so hp sent me a new dv7t with an added $500 in other upgrades changing the specs to:

    Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9600 2.8 GHZ
    HP Imprint Finish (Mesh)+Microphone + Webcam + Fingerprint Reader for HP
    640 GB(2x320GB hard drives @ 5400 RPM)
    4GB RAM
    Blu-ray drive
    Vista ultimate 64-bit
    TV Tuner
    17 inch infinity display at 1680x1050
    9600M GT Graphics Card
    bluetooth and 5100

    so they ended up giving me another $500 worth of laptop and i didnt have to pay for any of it. my predicament is...when i ran 3dmark06 on the first setup, i scored 4500 points consistently. now i am consistently scoring 4000 points consistently even with the better processor. in the scores my CPU score is higher than the first, but both my SM2.0 and 3.0 scores are 200 points lower than the ones from my first setup. any ideas to why this is occurring? is the vista ultimate draining from performance? what else could it be? please help!
     
  19. Toryglen-boy

    Toryglen-boy Notebook Consultant

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    yeah, install XP

    :cool:
     
  20. touchdowntexas18

    touchdowntexas18 Notebook Enthusiast

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    but why would ultimate give me 500 points lower than home premium? i still dont understand why im getting 500 points lower on what is supposed to be a better setup!
     
  21. bloodymeli

    bloodymeli Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi,

    I'm going to buy my hp dv7t and the last thing I need to decide about is the HD option.

    Is the gain from the 7200 RPM HD substantial? And how much weight is added due to additional HD?

    Also, for those of you who have got their dv7t, can you please post the weight of your notebook and specify its configuration?
     
  22. janusz

    janusz Newbie

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    What about resolution? You've chnged display in yours dv7t and native resolution is higher.
    Resolution in your benchmark has chnged too or was the same?
     
  23. Cheeseman

    Cheeseman Eats alot of Cheese

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    That doesn't seem right at all. I'm running on Vista Ultimate 64 and my Geforce 9500M GS which is obviously a lower-end card than your 9600M GT scores 4014 in 3dmark06. Then again at what resolution are you running the benchmark?
     
  24. Jonathan360

    Jonathan360 Notebook Evangelist

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    I'll say this...when I got my 9500T the scores were low out of the box, I retested it a few days later and the scores went up...I didn't update anything or downlaod new drivers or whatnot. It just happened. SO maybe that'll be for you as well.
     
  25. cbar777t

    cbar777t Newbie

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    Hey touchdown,

    I received a dv7t with a curved/bulged screen. When you got yours replaced, how long did it take for them to send you a new one? And did you have to send the old one back first/pay for the new one again while waiting for the old one to be credited? Also, did you have to ask for that $500, or did they offer it as a result of the inconvenience?
     
  26. touchdowntexas18

    touchdowntexas18 Notebook Enthusiast

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    i dont know how to check if the resolutions on the tests were different. yes my other dv7t was a 1440x900 and this new one is the higher 1680x1050. so maybe with the higher native resolution 3dmark06 defaults to a higher resolution? in any case i cant change the resolution on 3dmark cuz i have the basic version. i think 3dmark06 should force a certain resolution on all computers so that there is no discrepancy on scores. i really think now its just the higher resolution because gaming seems to have the same performance if not a little better.
     
  27. touchdowntexas18

    touchdowntexas18 Notebook Enthusiast

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    they just said they would be sending me a replacement and then he gave me the specs on the new machine. i was a little skeptical about it cuz i figured there was a catch but there wasnt. its not refurbished its brand new and its pretty much a maxed out dv7t. didnt really have to ask or anything.i was being very angry towards them though when a guy tried to tell me to wipe my hard drives(it wasnt going to do anything). so im thinkin it was just for the inconvenience :) but in the end hp support was very good and they even had my brand new laptop on my doorstep the morning after my phone call(and that phone call ended about 2:00 PM) computer was at my house by 9:30 the next morning. very nice.
     
  28. almostretired

    almostretired Newbie

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    I've been basking in the coolness of my new notebook for a few days now... and there is one issue that is driving me buggy:

    Every two minutes (approximately) the speakers emit a very brief sound. It's not a pure tone, more like a shuffling noise, but it has the characteristic of a sound effect. It is not just a burst of white noise.

    I listened to every Windows sound event that was enabled and none seemed like an exact match. The 'poor quality fingerprint scan' sound was closest, so I turned it off. The meaningless sound continued. I selected 'No Sounds' for Windows events... and the blip still arrives like clockwork, but Windows is otherwise quiet.

    Has anyone else experienced this?

    p.s. If you don't crave the higher-res screen and you can live with the 2.0 GHz processor, the pre-configured (and very well optioned) dv7t-1020 from someone like J&R is a screaming deal. They don't charge sales tax or shipping to my location, but HP does charge the tax... that made my upgraded screen and processor cost $400 in relative terms. :( Not so much of a deal, eh?
     
  29. almostretired

    almostretired Newbie

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    It is the fingerprint scanner!

    I changed the DigitalPersona setup to make no sounds, but to display an animation with each scan.

    Even when there is nobody near the computer, a 'try swiping your finger again' message flashes on the upper left corner of screen every couple of minutes.

    I'll turn that option off, too and the flakey reader application won't bother me anymore.
     
  30. janusz

    janusz Newbie

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    touchdowntexas18, have you noticed big difference between HP BrightView Infinity Display 1440 x 900 and 1680x1050?
    Is the quality or colours better?
     
  31. touchdowntexas18

    touchdowntexas18 Notebook Enthusiast

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    well obviously everything is a little smaller on the higher res. but i think it also looks a bit sharper. however i would not really recommend the resolution to someone who didnt think they needed it or to someone that wasnt planning on doing blu-ray dvds. if you are doing blu-ray dvds, i would go with the higher resolution. if you are doing graphics intensive games, well then the higher resolution is nice, except for the fact that the dv7t does not come with the necessary GPU to power extreme games at max settings at the higher resolution so it might be just as good of an idea to go to the lower resolution.

    all in all i dont think the differences are THAT noticeable. but like i said, you would probably see a lot bigger difference in dvds (especially blu-ray) and games :)
     
  32. Jonathan360

    Jonathan360 Notebook Evangelist

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    Like what kinds of differences in blu-ray? I have a 9500t right now with the standard 1440 X 900 and am happy with it for blu-rays. However what kinds of differences will I notice for blu-ray? I previously had a laptop where I paid for the higher-res, but actually didn't like it as much, but I didin't have blu-ray in that notebook however, I guess I wish I could see the differences in person.
     
  33. touchdowntexas18

    touchdowntexas18 Notebook Enthusiast

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    well a higher resolution on a same size screen basically means that your are putting more pixels in the same amount of space. in turn this will produce sharper, crisper images. the whole objective of blu-ray is to show videos in very clear high-definition. so, for watching blu-ray, i think the higher definition is better, but you might be just as happy with the lower resolution. it really is all personal preference on whether you like your icons and windows and things like that smaller and whether you can even tell the difference between the lower and higher resolution on blu-ray. I have not compared blu-ray on the higher and lower resolutions so i can only tell you what should happen in theory-the higher resolution should look a little better. but you have to decide if that little bit of quality justifies the price. man, im starting to sound like my economics professor. one thing to note though-if you decide to go with the lower resolution, there is no way to upgrade it any higher in the future. however if you get the higher resolution, you can always go to your desktop settings, game settings, or video settings and change the resolution to make it smaller. so before you make any decisions i would keep looking around on this forum and maybe even find a tech guy at best buy or something. just make sure he knows what he is talking about because i have found computer guys at best buy that didnt have a clue...good luck
     
  34. trifle77429

    trifle77429 Notebook Enthusiast

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    No Raid 0 grrrr.
    HP said I couldnt change my order but they will let me exchange it once its received.
    Is it possible to fix this on my own ? can I take it to a tech to fix ? or is my only option to return it for a different hard drive option?
     
  35. kuiper3

    kuiper3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I have no clue why the build date has gotten longer. I ordered on the 4th... the build day is the 19th... and then it will be shipped. when I first ordered on july 15th... the build date was done in july 25th for shipping the next monday the 28th... weird.
     
  36. TheAtreidesHawk

    TheAtreidesHawk Notebook Deity

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    Whats up everyone?

    So here's my story. A month ago I purchased a Sony Vaio VGNAR770 Notebook from sonystyle.com

    To make a long story short I paid a lot of money for very littler in terms of hardware. Not to mention sony forgot to apply the promotion I had applied for when I was in the process of customizing the laptop. In addition sony's customer service is absolutely horrible. Besides the VERY high res screen (1920 X 1200) I see no reason why I paid as much as I did.

    After my last nightmarish exchange with them regarding my overheating notebook (due to the nVidia graphics card in my laptop) I decided enough was enough.

    I immediately started looking into other laptop makers to see if I could find a comparable laptop that provided excellent performance a reasonable price.

    Well I was considering Dell but to be honest I don't really find their laptops as appealing as I do other makers. And I've never been a fan of Macs.

    So I looked into HP. My parents just got a nice desktop from them and from playing with it I could tell it was very good build quality and it ran Windows Vista very well.

    So I examined all their "Entertainment Powerhouse" notebooks since I listen to music a lot and also love Bluray. Specifically I was torn between the dv9700t and the dv7t. I went with the dv7t because of the better processor and graphics card options.

    I'm simply amazed all the power and great stuff I was able to pack into it for around $2300. My price went up due to the warranty package I got with it as well as the 70 dollar printer with mail in rebate. However I'm very pleased. The sony vaio had a GeForce 8600M GT while the HP cost me about the same amount of money but I got a GeForce 9600M GT instead.

    Anyways here's my configuration...HP says it will be built by August 25th. I don't know if I can wait that long. But at this point I'm just glad to rid of that ****ty and overpriced vaio notebook.

    HP Pavilion Entertainment dv7t customizable Notebook PC
    1. Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
    2. Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9600 (2.80GHz)
    3. 17.0" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition HP BrightView Infinity Display (1680 x 1050)
    4. 50% OFF 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
    5. 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
    6. 320GB 7200RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (160GB x 2) with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
    7. HP Imprint Finish (Mesh) + Microphone + Webcam for HP BrightView Infinity Display
    8. HP Color Matching Keyboard
    9. Intel(R) WiFi Link 5100AGN and Bluetooth(TM)
    10. High speed 56K modem port
    11. $100 OFF Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
    12. No TV Tuner w/remote control
    13. 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
    14. Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
    15. HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

    Anyways let me know what you think and if you're happy with the dv7t. I hope that it works out perfectly for me cuz I really want and need a laptop.
     
  37. dv7t

    dv7t Notebook Deity

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    can some people with the dv7t post their windows experience index scores please, and with the specs.
     
  38. Steve08

    Steve08 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi everyone
    I finally ordered my dv7t, with the following specs:
    • Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
    • Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9600 (2.80GHz)
    • 17.0" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display (1680 x 1050)
    • 50% OFF 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
    • 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
    • 320GB 7200RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (160GB x 2) with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
    • HP Imprint Finish (Mesh) + Microphone + Webcam
    • HP Color Matching Keyboard
    • Intel(R) WiFi Link 5100AGN and Bluetooth(TM)
    • High speed 56K modem port
    • SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
    • HP Integrated HDTV Hybrid Tuner
    • 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
    I just wanted to share with everyone two things,
    First if you’re a student like me, you can get a discount, which doesn’t show on my university website. Second I used this coupon:
    http://www.dealigg.com/story-HP-Pavilion-dv7t-series
    Which gave me an additional 5% discount,
    I just hope this laptop is good as its specs.
     
  39. vstrtz

    vstrtz Notebook Guru

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    Hi all!! new to the forums!!

    i am too getting the dv7t!!
    but i am bit confused.. :confused:
    there are two choices-
    1) with a 2.26GHz processor, 1680 x 1050 resolution but no blu-ray player. price- 1,499$
    2) with 2GHz processor, 1440x900 resolution , blu-ray.. price-1,479$

    all other specs are same...
    4GB Ram
    Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
    320GB 5400RPM SATA

    which one should i get??

    also is 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT enough for gaming...
    at what setting will it play Crisis???

    Eagerly awaiting a reply!! :)

    THX
     
  40. Infamous22

    Infamous22 Notebook Deity

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    Get the first choice. Who cares about a blu-ray drive? You get a faster processor and a higher resolution which is much more clearer and very crisp.

    You should be able to play Crysis on medium settings after disabling a few texture settings.

    You'll regret not getting the higher resolution screen if you don't.
     
  41. vstrtz

    vstrtz Notebook Guru

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    then what abt some other games like Oblivion, COD4 , C&C3,etc??
    can 9600M GT handle these???
     
  42. Infamous22

    Infamous22 Notebook Deity

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    COD4 will play like a breeze, C&C3 will play nicely. I cannot vouch for Oblivion but I would assume very good.

    You should be able to play all of the games out right now with a bearable frame rate if not an optimal frame rate.
     
  43. jpzsports

    jpzsports Notebook Evangelist

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    Just order mine :)
    I currently have a 6 yr old HP Compaq so I'm continuing on the HP road.
    Can't wait for it to come.


    HP Pavilion Entertainment dv7t customizable Notebook PC

    * Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
    * Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9600 (2.80GHz)
    * 17.0" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition HP BrightView Infinity Display (1680 x 1050)
    * 50% OFF 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
    * 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
    * 250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
    * HP Imprint Finish (Mesh)+Microphone + Webcam + Fingerprint Reader for HP BrightView Infinity Display
    * HP Color Matching Keyboard
    * Intel(R) WiFi Link 5100AGN and Bluetooth(TM)
    * No High speed 56K modem port
    * SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
    * No TV Tuner w/remote control
    * 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
    * Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
    * HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope
     
  44. vstrtz

    vstrtz Notebook Guru

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    hey, jus wanna know, how much HP charge for international warranty...
    can i get international warranty if i buy dv7-1020us from best buy store???
     
  45. miner

    miner Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Hp doesn't offer international warranties for their consumer models. The available warranties are only valid in the region it is sold in.
     
  46. dv7t

    dv7t Notebook Deity

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    there have been several replies. why doenst anyone want to post their windwos experience index scores for their dv7t configuration.

    do oyu know where that is..its simple.
     
  47. mlspace

    mlspace Newbie

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    Hey guys, :)
    ANYBODY ALREADY HAS IT AT HOME?
    Anybody wants to install Windows XP on it?
    I don´t think there are enough drivers online to do that! :(
     
  48. TheAtreidesHawk

    TheAtreidesHawk Notebook Deity

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    Lol there are still people using XP?

    Talk about unnecessary. Seriously yeah Vista had a not so smooth start but it's pretty much great right now as far as I'm concerned. Runs excellent on both my mom and dad's new desktops.

    PS I'm also curious what current owners of this laptop have for their Windows Experience Index....
     
  49. mlspace

    mlspace Newbie

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    "Non official" software like autocad or corel draw, don´t seem to run well with Vista!
     
  50. hofo_mofo

    hofo_mofo Notebook Geek

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    funn you say that (about the WEI that is)

    I went to futureshop today to try out the dv7-1034ca ( http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/321957-321957-3329744-64354-64354-3744231-3761472.html) and also played with the dv7-1014ca ( http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/321957-321957-3329744-64354-64354-3744231-3761374.html) and both scored 4.8

    And I agree with you and your Vista comment..it didnt have a smooth start but its slowly picking up steam (through both force and tweaking)...but yes it is definitely a frustrating experience
     
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