HP=welfare of laptops?

Well, after returning my Envy 15 for screen issues, touchpad that did not work properly, sticky cd eject, keyboard that did not work as it should, I decided to just go ahead and get an Envy 17. So far so good , everything working fine except for the cheesy crappy keyboard they use. Today, tried to eject my Office disc, nope. Will not eject at all, not even close. On my Envy 15 it would barely stick out and I could pull it the rest of the way out, On the Envy 17, it is not budging, lots of noise, no disc. Tried widening the slot a tad, still nothing.

What a POS! and here I thought I was one of the few with a trouble free HP laptop. Nope.

I have owned a LOT of laptops, none ever as bad as these HP Envy laptops. Now deciding on my next move-shopping, most likely payup for a MBP. Fortunately purchased from Amazon with a 30 day return policy.

 

I have owned/used a lot of HP notebooks, everything from budget Compaq notebooks to Elitebooks, and, for the most part, they have been among the best laptops I have used.

 

Was able to fix it, unscrewed backplate , removed subwoofer assembler, removed cd drive, noticed a piece of felt had lifted up blocking the cd from ejecting. Pushed this back down for now where it seems to stay and all is well, for now. It's like buying a damn Ford or Chevy, always have an excuse.

I can understand one laptop having issues, however the amount of negative reviews and comments here and elsewhere coupled with two problematic HPs in a role= concerned. I still have 28 days to return this. It better not act up at all the entire time.

 

There are so many people complaining about HP laptops because HP is the biggest manufacturer in the world. Even if they had the same percentage of problems as other manufacturers you would see more people with problems simply because they sell more.

Having some of the lowest prices also works against HP. When the average consumer goes to buy a computer they go to Best Buy and pick what they think is the nicest laptop, in terms of looks and power, for the price. Most of the time it is an HP. The problem is that the average consumer has no idea how to take care of a computer. They get viruses/malware/spyware, use the laptop on very soft surfaces stopping the fan from working properly and never update drivers unless they are in Windows Update. Then they blame the manufacturer for their computer being slow or overheating.

 

While I appreciate you chiming in, I would have to respectively disagree. Largest does not necessarily mean more complaints per say, just the same as VW vs. Toyota and their associated complaints. VW have always (owned 6 including Audi) ) been a car with issues, while Toyota's (7 of those including Lexus) have been incredibly reliable. And I have owned more car/trucks than even laptops.

Have owned Winbook (anyone remember those?), Del (is Dell not large?), Lenova (same here), Compaq (pissed me off when HP got them), Apple (best built), etc. Had them all. This Envy series is suppose to be their upper end of consumer laptops to a degree. Granted the price is not the $3500 I paid for an XPS laptop years ago, still HP bills the line as such.

The keyboard is shoddy, if you have not used one, go to the store or read up in the Envy forum. Very cheap. And unless I am just that lucky, 2 of my Envys in a row-problems straight from the box.

To use a $8 cheaper chipset in the Envy 17 which houses two HDD slots but no RAID options at all is pure none sense. Pure cost cutting. And realistically, how much more would a quality keyboard cost HP?

I understand corporations cutting corners, and of course they factor in a certain amount of defects and returns into the equation , at the same time my personal experience of playing with 5 of these Envy units is that corners have been cut. I would have gladly paid an extra $100 for the RAID option, or even a keyboard that belongs vs. something that currently is worse than my little sons vTech PC that cost $100 from Target.

At this time I do like the laptop, want to hold onto it, however in a position that I can easily move on to something else. Never a fanboy of my purchasing decisions, I buy and hold onto what I like and fits my needs. Currently this damn laptop is bugging the living hell out of me over the keyboard. The left side 'sounds' and 'feels' different vs. the right side and then the backspace key has a squeak. A SQUEAK! So I will have to got out into the garage, get a small needle and toss in some white grease or similar on my new computer. Wow. Samsung is a large manufacturer of many things, not just laptops, however complaints for the Series 7 are no where near the levels of the Envy 17. I came close to the Series 7 as there is no doubt it is a better built unit-judging from me using two in the stores and reading the forums. Wi-FI antenna location is the biggest complaint on that.

Again, never a fanboy of my decisions, so far HP does not impress, but I have 3.5 weeks to decide and even past that my credit card gives me protection on my purchase.

Finally, one of the IT guys at work, after telling him I had ordered the HP (Envy 15), he said think again, once the company switched from Lenova to HP, complaints and issues 'skyrocketed.' Same amount of end users, however even with a ratio of 1 to 20 (HP to Lenova) in the company, HP has a far higher qty of issues with them. The guy likes Apple, so he cares less about whether HP or Lenova is better, just that nobody really care for the HP now at the office due to the amount of issues. Initially I shrugged it off thinking he just did not care for HP, well, now I know why.

Might also have to do with the fact that people have different expectations. Having owned so many computers and having built well over 1000 pc's , I have seen the extremes.

 

Everyone has their own opinion. Like I said, I have personally owned or used for extended amounts of time dozens of HP laptops and recommended dozens more to friends and family. The vast majority of the computers have never had any problems.

 

Working with and deploying hundreds of hp laptops for business use and they all wrok great. I have an envy 15 had issues initially, but some updated drivers corrected those issue. Love this laptop!

 

I am going to have to call you out on this one. With respect of course. As someone that has first hand knowledge of corporate equipment leases, field operations, including IT support of said field equipment, absolutely and unequivocally, you are being a bit disingenuous here. Sorry.

In just about EVERY case of 'deployed' computers as you state, the expectations of what a 'great working' laptop is and what an end user that used their own personal funds to acquire stem from different aspects of the brain.

Short of a motherboard on fire, no boot, no display, etc, an IT Dept simply WILL NOT consider a PC 'deployed' to be defective over issues that might otherwise prompt concern with said personal end user. Screen not line up, so what. Bad keys, again, not worth the expense. Case have a gap or mis-aligned? Again, not a concern. Reds that look like orange? No corp. is going to care. PERIOD!

Been doing this too long to know above scenario all too well.

So again, it is all about expectations. Curious what you drive.

 

I look after over 200 ish machines with most laptops bing HP and we have little to no issues. This just seems like another bashing thread, obviously with merit, against HP. You'll also have issues with a MBP if you're not lucky. All of them have issues.

 

Excalibur, in which way do you look after them. Do you deal with HP's customer support? Or do you service the laptops?
Any more details?

Reason I am bringing it up is most large businesses with their on techs rarely rely on HP's support. Thus many have few bad things to say about the brand.

Most of their laptops work reliably, this is true. It is rather sad how HP can get most budget/mid range laptops perfectly. (Working 100% all year round) but when it comes to their higher end line ups, they fail...
In the case of the HP Envy 17 (previous/new redesign), as well as HP Envy 15 there were some serious design flaws. Overheating (Envy 17/15), throttling (Envy 17), even CQ issues.

The HP Envy is supposed to be HP's top of the line consumer notebook. For a top of the line, I find the thermal design to be poor and the experience to be poorly thought out...

 

I look after them, re-paste the thermal compound when/if required, remove the usual dust and also deal with business support. (On occasions the standard Hp support as well).

I am aware of the issues, which there are many, but on the whole I'd still say that they're not much different than the other oems. I would, however, like HP to take control of things like thermal paste issues, which Apple and others also suffer from, as the past is seldom forgotten. Machines like the Folio 13 really do appreciate Arctic 5 compound (Of course standard consumers should NEVER have to even go anywhere near that type of thing.

At the end of the day venting on a forum will not get the situation resolved. Speak with your wallet, move on, then when HP sales start to 'really' fall they'll quickly realise the error of their ways.

 

In other words these '200ish' computers you look after that you have the time in your job to apply thermal paste on are older machines, obviously well past their warranty period, certainly not lease machines. Do you really believe your opinion on the matter is relevant here?

As you ought up ,'bashing' and 'venting', as if you prefer people to NOT post up negative experiences on-line. If you do not like the thread, you do realize you have that option of skipping over it and to not participating in it as it seems to me your a 'fanboy' so to speak.

I am referring to two NEW laptops I have purchased along with the numerous complaints concerning the same.

 

imo HP isn't "bad" per se, but really inconsistent. Some laptops have build defects (like keyboard flex) while other laptops of the same model don't. So it's really luck-of-the-draw with HP. If you get one that's put together well then you're good, but otherwise you're going to have problems.

 

and that does not make them good either IMO, and also my dilemma as you raise a good point. Though I like the laptop-now-or until something else goes bad, the keyboard issue is getting to me. Again, something many, many people complain about. I read some have good keyboards and the display model at Fry's was good, mine is not one of them, and I am afraid that by exchanging this I might end up with another HP laptop with other issues including the keyboard.

At the same time, dropping $1400 for laptop and 'deal with it' as so many others often do as their expectations are low, is not something I am inclined to do.

YES, I expect a perfect laptop as my money was also good!

Shopping around now to see what else is available.

 

Excuse me.... This week alone I re-pasted a 6460b and a brand new HP Foilo 13.

Thanks.

P.s. I still stand on the fact that they're all the same and that this is simply another thread dedicated to bashing a company which, admittedly, isn't perfect. There are already a few threads based on the same subject.

"as it seems to me your a 'fanboy' so to speak." - I had no affiliation with any of them and prefer none over the other. 'You're' obviously correct and I'll take my leave from this thread.

 

He did speak with his wallet.
He purchased the top end consumer notebook from HP.
Hp has failed him.

This type of scenario from GM, FORD, AUDI, PORSCHE would be unacceptable as well.
At least the auto manufactures FIX their problems.

 

I think HP's higher end consumer products are not exactly very well thought out, particularly the Envy series of notebooks.

Bashing of a company not really, some including me have very valid points.
Your two mentions of a Folio 13 and HP 6460B are both business laptops, the majority of the complaints here seem to be regarding consumer products. I dont think your opinion is very relevant at the moment.

 

I have never had more problems with HP consumer laptops, well at least not anymore than I have had with other consumer lines. Their consumer laptops are almost always better quality than other ones I have used.

 

Of course it is a bashing thread. Do you expect me to just roll over after spending over a $1000 on a laptop? Please show me in the brochure the exact stipulations on the acceptable defects a HP laptop should come with?

You really do have low expectations, but of course, placing thermal compound on brand new laptops just seems to be the norm for you.

You Sir live outside of reality. Perhaps if you spent your own personal money things would be different.


Now I did have conversation with Amazon two days ago on this. I buy anywhere from 80-120 items from monthly due to their customer service-something HP apparently does not have.

To say that Amazon 'took care' of me would be an understatement as they provided me a large refund % to purchase to keep the laptop since they currently have none in stock. So far the computer is humming along. We shall see what lies around the next apex.

 

Mercedes must be equivalent welfare equiv. in cars... lots of problems with their cars ESPECIALLY the 2001-2007 era of junk they produced and turned a blind eye to.

not that or this thread makes any sense or anything... what is a welfare laptop again?

 

LOL. Nice.

 

The public library computer terminals.



HP Sucks {3 letter word, 1st letter begins with A}

 

Sorry for the thread necro but what is potentially wrong with the Envy17 keyboards? I'm deciding between this and a couple of other business laptops (Lenovo T530/EliteBook) for writing up my PhD thesis and a bad keyboard is a real deal breaker for me.

 

Lol. So true. I think my hp touchpad could beat those.

The reason HP's high end models are awful are simple. HP makes its money selling more "spec" for less.

There are three categories that manufacturers spend money on: specs, looks (chassis), and the "intangibles". To undercut other sellers and sell more "spec" for less they must sacrifice one of the categories. It can't be specs, and it can't be looks, it much be the intangibles. the spec part is obvious, to compete, it must match up good on a spec sheet for almost any buyer. For most people who buy a laptop the look is important. It can sway the unknowing budget shopper and is a demanded component for those who wish to buy a "premium" product. So they cut the intangibles. By intangibles i mean the screen (is that red or orange?), the keyboard (again the envy as cited in this tread), touch pad, build quality (DV6's peeling bezel and BR drive), etc. The intangibles are what make the mac's so great (and expensive).

When HP cuts these corners for the budget comps not many people complain. At that price point people are looking to spend as little as possible and all comps cut corners on the intangibles. HP may just cut a few more to give a lower price. And at this price point not many people care. Many average consumers would't even think about screen res, keyboard flex, or viewing angles. So here they get away with it and are none the worse for the wear.

However it is a different story with their high end laptops. They still make their money buy undercutting the rest of the market but the "intangible" corners cut are more obvious and documented. In a budget world you can have shoddy cooling with a core 2 duo or a i3 but when you pack in an quad core i7 and a 2gb gddr5 650 the cut corners on cooling systems are a lot more evident (again the dv6). Same with the key board on the envy that was complained about. It is the same "intangibles" cut that hp uses just magnified by more demanding components and consumer expectations. It's just how HP operates.

Because of these issues I view HP premium products as not true premium but "sub premium". It is the specs of premium and the looks of a premium sans the intangibles that, in my opinion, truly make a premium a premium. Maybe faux premium is a better term. They hit premium product on spec and looks just not intangibles. They are the anti mac. The mac nails the intangibles and looks but skimp a bit on the specs (though their software lessens this quite a bit). Also to a lesser extent like sager who offer high specs and decent intangibles but have sub par looks.

For many people these compromises are ok. They are willing to deal with problematic faux premium products to save some money just as some spend more money to get a mac with impeccable intangibles. I have been guilty my self of saying "this HP would be perfect for this price if they just fixed these two issues" i.e. the new dv6 (heat and peeling bezel etc.). What we need to understand is that to fix these issues is to raise the price to on par with other premium products. HP fills the niche of faux premium and if you don't want that then get another product (for me the asus n56). For your own sake just ignore hp if you seek genuine premium. It will only infuriate you to see the potential wasted by second rate keyboards and off color screens with non ejecting disk drives. I know it is hard to do (says the person writing an insanely long rant about something he advises to ignore to avoid getting angry enough to write insanely long rants about) but just shop another brand. HP will not change while there is a market for faux premium laptops (kind of like their fauxtra books, almost but not quite for less: HP's business plan that charms the masses). The asus n56, dells new xps, sammy series 7, etc. are all good options for genuine premium.

In conclusion: yes, HP does = welfare laptops. They sell faux premium and if you want different then shop a different brand (not a criticism of you starting this thread, I love hopeless nitpicking as much as anyone ie this post). For me the intangibles being cut for a under cut price turned me off. Just depends on your priorities.

End rant thanks for reading.

 

What an AWFUL product HP has!! I have...or should I say HAD one of the HP Pavilion laptops from April of last year. The first issue I had was with the graphics card and that was within the first day of having the thing. I returned it and the guy said he had never seen anything like that before. I get a new one, it runs ok, not great, but ok for the first year and three months of me having it. Then yesterday it just doesn't work anymore. The screen is black and it will not load, but the computer turns on and the fan whirs and whirs as it runs, the wireless light is orange, and the caps lock continually blinks. There are a few codes the HP tech site gives me, but they don't work. I sent it to a friend who is the guru of all computers. He knows how to build any computer, how to take them apart, format, the works. He's able to retrieve my documents with his magic, but he tells me that the CPU has been fried and it'd cost a load of money to fix it. Just to send it backto HP for them to take a look it would cost me $329 dollars, then after that I have no idea how much more it would cost me. Definitely well over what the computer is worth.

Comes to find out this is an extremely common problem with this computer. There is even a lawsuit in effect against them for their shotty product. Apparently they had this problem with this computer since it first came out. The computer would overheat and get fried. This happened to many people during the warranty of the product. So instead of fixing the problem completely or removing the item from the market they installed fans that ran and ran which would keep it from burning out until a few months after the warranty expired. I have read SEVERAL stories about this happening to other people and it disgusts me. HP knowingly sells a shotty product that they know will get fried just after the warranty expires then they don't have to fix it or do anything about it.

I will NEVER ever buy another product from HP again, I will suggest to anyone who might have just bought one if you still can return the thing then return it. It is not worth the money, or the hassle. And we as consumers should not support a company who sells items knowing that they will break just after the warranty expires so they have no responsibility though it was their fault it broke in the first place. It disgusts me as a consumer, and companies that are crooked like this should not be allowed to sell these products!!

 

If you need to reapply thermal compound to the machine, you need to take off the rose colored glasses and find a better built machine.....

 

I re-apply the thermal paste not out of necessity but 'choice'. Did you miss the bit where it stated, 'when/if required'. ALL machines suffer from poor thermal compound application and 'even' the macbooks suffer in this regard.

 

Heh, Apple arguably has some of the best quality in laptops and have had their own share of issues with thermal paste in the past....if you don't believe me, a simple Google search will confirm it.

 

Also Macs cost about twice as much for the same specs. Worth it? Debatable!

 

put down the apple sauce and come back to reality

laptop quality for 2011



they barely edged out Dell and as one can see HP is the worst brand

Laptop Reliability Ratings: Which Laptop Brand is the Best?

 

again, if you have to reapply thermal paste, you need another brand of machine. NEVER, EVER have I had to reapply the thermal paste to a Dell machine unless I had to remove the cooling unit from the MB for a CPU upgrade in which case you MUST clean the CPU and the cooler and reapply new paste.

also, I have never had ANY of my machines suffer from insufficient cooling when properly ventilated.

< PC Tech for 23+ years so I definately know what I am talking about.

 

Not surprisingly the graph also shows the highest selling laptops from right to left. The problem is that these numbers are massively skewed by people who buy a laptop with no clue how to take care of it and then blame the manufacturer when something goes wrong. Being the biggest, and cheapest, brands makes this problem more noticeable because there are more of your laptops in the hands of morons

 

The projected spread is 10% and the actual spread is close to 7% based upon the graph. Ironic how Sony, Toshiba, and Acer are all better than Apple while Dell who typically sells machines for $800-1300 in the consumer market is neck and neck with Apple.

 

What you posted is over one year old and doesn't include people who didn't have a service plan and reported no issues. Your info is about as reliable as a US presidential poll of mostly democrats.

 

I considered a Dell 15r/17r Special Edition but they are so butt-ugly I would be embarrassed to be seen with one in public.

 

you are more than welcome to provide better data if you like.... based upon my experience with HP, Dell, and Acer machines, I tend to agree with the chart

2 HP dead
2 Acers, one dead, one works
7 Dells, all functional although 4 of them required some form of repair during warranty period, none have failed since they were repaired and the oldest one is 2007 vintage.

 

In my family
1 HP died in 4 years
1 Toshiba, 8 years then thrown out (working).
1 Dell Alive, 5 years so far.
1 Lenovo Thinkpad 1 year so far.
1 IBM Thinkpad 19 years, doesn't see much use anymore.
2 Dell XPS 15 (L521x)'s < 1 month each, never worked and eventually returned.

Now, truthfully, one person's experience is really not a good test. No where near enough data but I'm not going near a Dell for a while.

 

Everybody's experiences are different. There are millions of people with working and non-working laptops who never post on forums too! So your post means nothing, my friend.

 

I have one of the last model Powerbooks made, using original battery, and is still running.

Been dropped twice, lid latch is broken, and its been tossed around more than I care to admit. The heat it emits can keep a house warm in the winter.

That said, I dislike Apple. Whoever told me to put down the applesauce needs to take a flying leap off the closest high-rise building.

 

Most of them literally throw the thermal compound on the machines or use pads so, if I can and see a reason (I use RealTemp) and it's easy... I'll reapply arctic 7 compound especially seeing as it's so easy on the Pro/Elitebook range. PC Tech for over 20 years myself and I 'don't' always know what I'm talking about.

- All machines run within tolerance but I prefer them to run as cool as possible.

 

I have to agree that there are several components that make a laptop. HP does cut corners, as well as everyone else in fact. For example, only a quick google search and the new Dell XPS 15 shows more issues than things going for it. Grid on the screen, subpar screen, overheating, throttling, wifi issues, ODD issues, etc. And that's their top consumer laptop, which demands an even higher price tag than the comparable Envy 15. My point is, that no laptop manufacturer is safe from cutting corners. Apple can claim the build quality, but they do cut on the performance (those 5400RPM drives were/are an insult), cooling system is subpar, connectivity. The new rMBP seems to have solved much, but haven't been looking too much into it, that 2000+ price tag puts it out of my range already, for an OS that I can't use effectively.

I can dig into every brand's issues, but let's focus.

False, all laptops require thermal paste to be applied again after a certain amount of time. Same applies for cleaning the interiors, all laptops require that.

If you have never done so, you can notice that after some months, the base temperature of your components (see HWMonitor) has increased compared to when it was new. Reason behind it, is that the compound will wear down with time, as it heats and cools. Reapplying it, can easily drop 5C from the CPU and GPU.

HP Envy 15, MBP 15, Dell Studio XPS 16, Dell XPS M1550, HP Pavilion dv6, Acer Timeline 3810T, from the ones I have had my hands on and tested myself. All have had some sort of cooling issue.

My personal laptop is the Envy 15 first generation. It has 3 fans inside, 2 for the CPU and 1 for the GPU. I had to reapply paste twice and get a cooling pad just to control the temperatures while gaming in summer here in France. Out of stressing the components, the laptop runs cool otherwise.

This is true. Most laptops have to sacrifice either air flow or temperatures, since the components are enclosed in a small area. The cooler you run, the longer it will live.

 

Two months and five pages later, have we figured out what "the welfare of laptops" even means?

I'm likely going to pull the trigger on my first HP at the end of October (Envy X2), and while there's some really unsatisfied people on the internet, it seems there's a lot of satisfied owners too. It seems to me it might be like Ford versus Subaru. You hear a lot more complaints about lemon Fords than lemon Subarus, not because Fords are so much more likely to be lemons than Subarus, but instead because Ford sells something like ten times more cars than Subaru does. Ten times more cars overall means ten times more lemons out there which means ten times more angry posters on the internet.

 

Take into account that people with good experiences are less likely to post and give feedback, compared to those with bad experiences.

 

wel·fare   [wel-fair] Show IPA
noun
1.
the good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being: to look after a child's welfare; the physical or moral welfare of society.

I guess it means healthy laptops.

 

haha that made me laugh quite a bit.

Well done kind sir.

 

I posted this on the Envy forum, but I had an Envy 15 on order since 8/17. Finally came in yesterday and was DOA. For a premium laptop, this is completely unacceptable. Actually, in any case, dead-on-arrival for a brand new product is unacceptable.

There is a long waiting time plus my credit card gets charged right away. When I spoke to the manager, they said that they would have to build another one with a two week wait plus shipping. I must have been transferred 7 times with some of the transfers having a really annoying automated phone menu to navigate through in between.

I dont think this would be such a big deal of HP express shipped a replacement to me. That's what makes Apple customers happy is that the inconveniences are minimized even if the products dont come out perfect.

 

What was your original estimated shipping date and when did it finally ship? Just curious as I am waiting on an Envy 17 now that is past its date.

I imagine that they tested it before it left the factory. This means something happened in shipping. Not HP's fault.

There is a waiting time because this is one of HP's most popular computers right now.

Your card should have had only had a temporary authorization on it. The permanent charge goes thru when the laptop ships.

There is no replacement to ship right now since they are building them as fast as they can.

And, BTW, if you look around on every other manufacturer's forums, you'll see the same issues. Nobody does this stuff perfectly. Best of luck to ya, though!!!

 

I like HP personally, Never had problems with my Dv6 I had purchased in 2009. Only reason I'm buying a new one is mine had gotten snapped in half and stepped on by an angry family member, an it STILL worked after that, plugged it into an external and good to go, just no bringing it to school lmao.

Honestly, I'm a firm believer in the thought that things will last as long as you take care of them. I regularly took mine apart every 6 months or more and dusted it completely and re-applied paste, and did a clean OS install every 8-12 months.

Yes these things are built with consumers in mind that might not do those things regularly but hey, some people don't know how to change the oil or replace the brake pads properly, but they find someone that does.... it still gets done.

IDK just my thought...

 

HP Customer Service is crap...

 

I guess that depends on who you talk to. One hp rep has been working with me for weeks - I was trying to get an exchange for my hp envy 15. That fell through and before anything could be fixed and a new one shipped to me, hp stopped making the 15s. I was so bummed about it, but she personally made a huge coupon that she used on an hp envy 14 to make up for it and threw in a free external dvd drive. I've never experienced customer service as good as that. I'll miss the 15, but man I really did appreciate her help. I hope she wasn't a rare one.