NC8430 users: how loud is the fan?

Hello,

I would like to decide wether to buy a NC8430 or a IBM Z61m/T60. Fan noise is a VERY important issue for me

If I work in office mode (word, outlook, excel, firefox, winamp) I would prefer not the hear the fan.

E.g. if I step one step (one meter) back in a very quite room, I want not to be able to tell whether the notebook is turned on or off.

What about the NC8430? Can you describe me a little bit how loud it is in everyday use? You could help me a lot, because it is not available in stores here, and it you do mailorder in Switzerland, you can't return them if you don't like the product :-/ And I am really sensible towards fan noise...

So thanks a lot for your help

...maybe you know even both models and can compare them


EDIT: I read something about "fan issues" in another topic. Is the NC8430 really that loud?

 

I bought a laptop fan (to help with cooling when I'm gaming). That is rated at 25db, or whisper-loud. Put it this way, it is louder than the notebook during office use.

As for the fan issues, I have no idea what people are talking about. I went as far as try to replicate the "issue" by replicating the conditions. Nada.

The fan only comes on for me when gaming or a serious photoshop session. During office use it's fine, the notebook is quiet

P.S. Pretty bad for you that you can't return a mail-order prouct. In teh UK, we have a distance selling act that helps online and catalogue shopping consumers

 

My nc8430 seems to run nearly silently. I have a couple external harddrives and my old laptop on my desk, and honestly the only way I know the fan in my 8430 is on is by sticking my hand next to the vent and feeling the warm air!

I think the internal harddrive (the HP installed Seagate 5400rpm) is as loud (if not louder) than the fan. I have to put my ear to the palm rest to hear either.

The fan does become noticable when the system is under heavy load, but that's only when my externals are off and the system volume is muted.

 

Nice, thank you!

That sounds good so far. More of that please!
(during gaming or photoshop, I don't care about noise...)

 

I sympathise with you in your attempts to find out how noisy this laptop is. I, too, am very sensitive to background noise and am looking for a quiet laptop.

The only useful information is dB numbers at well-defined laptop workloads. My attempts to get this info for the IBM/Lenovo and HP laptops have hitherto been fruitless. With respect, subjective statements are of little use. A large proportion of the present-day mp3 player/walkman/disco generation is functionally deaf and can't hear a 747 taking off, let alone a laptop whirring.

I don't know the solution. I just wish the laptop makers would publicise their noise levels.

 

I agree. Some Reviewrs startet to do more sophisticated noise level diagrams, like the german-speaking notebookcheck.com for the IBM T60 ( http://www.notebookcheck.com/Testbericht-IBM-Lenovo-Thinkpad-T60.875.0.html)

 

Look, I swear if the manufacturer of my laptop cooling pad have got it right, and it is 25db (which they claim is whisper loud), then the notebook is quieter than that during office use. Don't worry!

P.S. I use IEMs, which allows me to play my music at a lower volume. I detest being able to hear people's music on public transport (namely as most people have no taste)

I really do not see the need or point of grabbing a mic and producing fancy graphs

 

It would have saved me the Asus W1Jc experience: in the forums, people said "its not loud", "you can barely hear the fan", "very quite". Only one guy said he will send it back because it is too loud. People thought he's paranoid...

What happend: I ordered it (in Germany)....and it is a bl dy jet engine. 3000 rpms the whole time, even when IDLE (everybody in the forum confirmed that speed, they just thought that this is not loud ). It was louder than my desktop PC @work and louder than any other notebook I ever saw in the last 6 years. Now I have to return it, which is nearly impossible due to custom issues between Germany and Switzerland.

A fancy diagram would have saved me this experience, because microphones don't get deaf from Ipods

 

Thanks for this. A very interesting laptop comparison site.

I see that there is an English version at http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Thinkpad-T60.1428.0.html
but nothing on the NC8430 (yet?).

 

My NC8430 idles at 55C with the fan always on low or higher. My single core PentM @1.7ghz equipped T42 idles at 40C and I never hear the fan while I''m just idling or notetaking. Both computers are undervolted.

My point? Although I love this NC8430, it is not the most silent computer because it does not run exceptionally cool.

 

Really? 55°C is a bit high for idle, imho. Can the others confirm that values? Are you sure you don't have some kind of malfunction?

However, I read several reports in other forums that it is not a very quite machine :-/ And the alternative IBM Z61m seems to have a display quality issue :-/ :-/

 

ratiopharm:

I just ordered an nc8430 pretty much pimped-out. I should have it by Wednesday, and I have a VERY quiet apartment (noise floor < 20dBa.

I'm pretty sensitive to noise myself and have been reviewing cases now for quite some time, so I could probably give you a very experienced opinion on the noise from the nc8430. I'll letcha know what I think once I get it and give it some real heavy usage patterns

 

Well it does idle at 55C with the fan on low. You have to remember that this machine houses a ATI X1600 which is no lean graphics card. With the card downclocked the fan doesnt really kick in. Its not an exceptionally cool machine but I love this laptop.

Two things I tell anyone buying a laptop. Stay away from Dells and Acers, except of course the Dell latitude.

 

@ Tamale

Cool, I will wait for your report

@phaedrus

Its logic that a powerfull graphic card produces more heat, but you should be able (if the X1600 has it ) to activate Powerplay and underclock the card, when you switch the HP power management software to office mode, or not?

Or do you have to got the X1600 settings to change GPU power?

 

I am also fighting with the nc8430 noise, and here is what I've discovered so far:

1) On battery, my nc8430 is idling at approx. 45-47C. Even if the fan is off most of the time, the fan starts when the temperature reaches 48C (and it will reach periodically even at idle).

2) On AC power, my nc8430 idles at 46-48C, but with the fan on most of the time at the lowest speed. There is some issue with the CoreDuo, which is described here: http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=1041766. The processor doesn't go into deeper sleep states, which means it is producing more heat compared to battery operation.

3) On AC power and external CRT connected, there is a bug (maybe not?) when the PowerPlay automatically switches to the "Balanced" (middle) setting, which uses higher voltage and speed for the X1600. I found no way how to switch the PowerPlay back to the lowest setting and my nc8430 is idling at 55C or so, with the fan running on the 2nd speed level most of the time.

IMO, the problem is that the lowest fan speed is too loud. For example, the lowest fan speed in FS LifeBook E8210 is much quieter, I could feel the air coming from the notebook, but I couldn't hear it. With nc8430, I can hear it without any problem and yes, I don't like it very much. Fortunatelly, there is a simple cure for this problem.

So far, I am using the following methods to keep the fan less noisy:

1) With Notebook Hardware Control and the ACPI module for HP notebooks (available here), I can undervolt the CoreDuo from 1.27 to 1.05V at full speed (2GHz) and additionally, I can also set the speed of the fan, which makes my nc8430 quieter, but also warmer. Unfortunatelly, I can change only the speed, but not the temperature levels at which the fan starts running (people from NHC are working on it, but it doesn't work fully yet). From what I've discovered, the fan kicks in to the lowest speed at 45C, then goes faster at 60C, 72C and 83C (full speed). With default fan speeds, it seems to me that the lowest speed is too fast, it looks to be set to 45-50% speed, which seems too loud to me. I set the lowest speed to 20% in the NHC and now it idles smoothly at 46C on battery and 48C on AC. The fan is always on, but I cannot hear it (when I place my head 15cm above the keyboard, I can hear the HDD spinning, but I can't hear the fan).
With undervolting, I was able to get the temperature at full load from 73 to 60C on AC power and no external CRT connected. Unfortunatelly, I can't lower also voltage at idle, so I can't lower the idle temperature.

2) With Ati Tray Tools, I can underclock the X1600 even when there is the exteranal CRT connected. Unfortunatelly, this tool can't change voltage, which is held higher thanks to the Balanced PowerPlay scheme. With underclocking, my fan runs only at the lowest speed, compared to the second level with default settings.

Conclusion: first, I was dissapointed with the default settings, but now I am happy with the results and with the noise. This laptop can be silent, but you have to use some 3rd party tools. It should be even better when people from NHC discover how to change also the temperature points, not only the fan speed.

PS: all processor temperatures were measured with the Core Temp tool.

 

using the Core Temp program instead of NHC gives me better temps. Room temps are 22C.
Idle:
NHC = 55C
Core temp = 46C

Load:
NHC = 70C
Core Temp = 60C

 

I was worried about the same issue, and was looking at the same Thinkpads as you. All I can say is that I do not notice the fan noise, but I do notice the heat, it gets much warmer when I sit it on my lap while watching TV than my old Thinkpad did. The fan noise is slightly louder, likely as someone mentioned because of the heat and it runs more, but I do not notice it.

 

I'm about to order a 8430 and fan noise is also important to me.
But what processor do you guys have? A Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo?
From what I've seen, only the Core 2 Duo T7200 is named "Centrino", which means "designed for mobile" (and Wifi). Isn't the Core Duo the same as the ones in desktop computers?
If this is the case, then that's probably why the fan is on most of the time.
It should be cooler with a Core 2 Duo, shouldn't it?
Any clue? Any experience?
Steve

 

Both CoreDuo and Core2Duo are mobile versions. I think the idle temeprature should be about the same. I have the T2500 (2GHz) version.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Here in Switzerland, the HP specs on the various versions state " Intel Centrino Duo Mobile Technology" only for the T7200/7400 and only just state " Intel Core Duo T2500 Processor" for the others.
But I have to admit that the T2500 machines come with the wifi Intel 945xx chipset that makes it "Centrino".
A bit confusing.
Steve

 

Last night I had a rare opportunity to play games for several hours until 1:30AM. At that time in the morning, everything is quiet all around you. I definitely can hear the fan starting up and it took me by surprise. Still I was glad to see it working and I was able to ignore the sound quickly.

 

You will be happy with the nc8430. Just use the NHC program and the fan will be quiet. If you use an external CRT, add Ati Tray Tools and you are set . Right now my fan is running at 20% speed (HDD is about 2x louder than the fan) and my CoreDuo T2500 is idling (well, I am currently browsing web) at 47C.

PS: I observed that the lowest speed of fan is 55% by default! This is really too much and audible. Running at 20% speed is just fine for writing/browsing web.

 

It is curious that HP doesn't provide dB noise level specifications for its machines in the basic product description. It is my understanding - others in this forum might correct me if I am wrong - that new German legislation on the protection of employees in the office environment requires employers to show that they are monitoring and restricting noise and other emissions from office equipment. If this is so then I would imagine that a company purchasing 100 NC8430s might want to know the noise levels up front before putting their money on the table.

 

I just found something interesting: http://epmconcerto.concertopro.ch/productinfo/pdf/km/nc8430.pdf

Page 30: Declared Noise Emissions
(in accordance with ISO 7779 and ISO 9296)

 

Ah, finally some numbers. Good work, Ratiopharm. Thanks very much. Now to go off and read up on those ISO standards and find out what they mean (are the sound measurements taken near the machine or 3 blocks away).

 

The following provides some interesting information about the meaning of the numbers in the ISO standards for testing IT equipment:
http://www.silent.se/iso-9296.php
and gives an idea of how to interpret the HP NC8430 numbers that you have flagged.

 

I am very happy with the machine for the most part, but I too am finding the default 'idle' fan speed far too noisy.

How do I get this acpi control to work in NHC? I put the Hewlett_Packard.xml and .cs files in the acpi directort in NHC, and now I can see the fan speed options, but changing the percentages isn't actually changing my fan's speed any.. it's still humming away pretty loudly.

help?

 

It's a bit confusing sometimes.

It seems to me that if the fan is running some stable speed and you make some change in your settings, the fan speed will not change. You need to aply some load, so the fan changes it's speed to another level. Then, new setting are taken into account by the fan control, so when you let it idle again, the idle fan speed will change to the new value. At least it seems to me like that.

Also, you must enable the "Enable ACPI control system" in NHC.

BTW, now I use 30% as the lowest speed and I cannot hear it as well.

If you want to monitor actual fan speed, click on "Show ACPI temperature details" and look at "Thermal Zone #4", which shows the actual fan speed in % (there are deg.C displayed, but it's percents).

 

There are actually 5 different temperature sensors on the laptop so is it possible that those different programs are reading different sensors?

Using prime95 and playing with the powerplay stuff (under Linux) it seems like the 2nd and 3rd sensors matched up the the CPU/GPU respectively.

 

possible, yes. NHC is very erratic though, it only reports 45, then 55, then 60, then 70, 80. Nothing in between. This makes me believe that NHC is having problems reading the CPU sensor accurately.

There really isn't anything on a computer that should get to 70C besides the CPU and GPU. Since the NHC temps rise when only using P95 (and nothing graphics related), I don't think it's reading the GPU.

 

Ok, I think the speeds are adjusting like you said Petrv.

I'm appauled at how hot the exhaust air is when I'm in AC and just sitting at idle. What's creating so much heat? Does the GPU not know how to conserve juice when not being taxed?

Has anyone had success with some sort of dynamic switching on the GPU?

 

You can set powerplay to conserve juice all the time by setting it to the "Battery Optimized" profile in all circumstances.

 

I just got another opinion from a forum: the guy says the fan is extremly annoying because it goes on every 30 sec (or turns faster) even without doing anything. Is that true?

EDIT: ok, I just found this topic in the HP forum, and the opinions sounds really bad :-( I'm no longer sure about this computer...
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=1041766

 

Don't worry, with Notebook Hardware Control, the nc8430 is very quiet and the HDD is the noisiest part in the notebook, believe me. You just have to use some 3rd party software that can slow down the fan. That's all.

 

Yeah I read all of this (you did a great job testing all those settings), however the program still seems to have some bugs and I don't want to rely on some mediacore solutions that work for some people and don't for others. I don't feel so good about that. A laptop manufactorer should be able to deliver notebooks without such bugs, especially if its the expensive business series.

I don't know what to do, I will screen the market again for PCs that are quite without 3rd party software first...

 

ratiopharm:

do you have any objective comparisons for what your noise tolerance is like?

calling something "quiet" has everything to do with the environment you're computing in and what else is going on..

are you going to be in a REALLY quiet place most of the time, like a bedroom in the middle of the woods with no other electronics running, or an office?

without NHC, the idle speeds are QUIET, but not SILENT. with NHC, you can get the speeds low enough to really be silent. it's not mediocre software either, it feels very polished to me. they even offer a professional liscence if you want to pay for it.

 

Yeah, that is so true... I will try to specify this.

So, I will be using it mostly in a REALLY quiet place. There is no noise from the streets coming in. The laptop will be the only electronics running. So you can hear everything. Its not like in an office where you have background noise.

When standing 2 meters away in this room in office mode, I would like not to hear the fan at all. I would consider this as crucial. The fan should be less loud than the HD.

It would be nice if you also don't hear the fan if you sit directly in front of the laptop.

My Toshiba Tecra S1 that I have no is really silent, the fan is off. That's why I am so spoiled and I don't want to miss that feature. It's hard to describe.

NHC: maybe this was missleading, I dont think the software is mediocore, it looks really good, but just the compatibility with the NC8430 is (at the moment) mediocore

 

If I consider only the office mode (writing in Word, IE, some MP3), you will definatelly hear the fan. It will start even when you are doing nothing. I don't want to lie to you, that's just how it is. It was the only issue that I didn't like on my nc8430, but not anymore, since I have already solved it.

The problem is that the lowest speed of the fan is running at 55% speed, which is too fast and thus too loud. It is certainly louder than the HDD and I think you will hear it from 2 meters.

On the other hand, if I set the lowest fan speed to 20% or even 30% with the NHC, the fan is not noticadle at all when I am sitting 20cm in front of the notebook. I can hear the HDD spinning, but not the fan at all. It's interesting that HP made this mistake and set the lowest fan speed to 55%, because 20% is just fine to keep the temperature at 47C in office mode. The default fan speed is keeping the same temperature, but it is periodically switching on and off and it is too loud.

Finally, it's up to you if you buy this one or not. Keep in mind that there is a powerfull X1600 inside the nc8430, which is also generating a lot of heat compared to other business notebooks. Maybe this is the reason why it is louder than others?

 

Is it possible to undervolt it with NHC (powerplay)?

And who convenient is NHC on the NC8430? Is there a possibility to define a setting for office (silent) and on for gaming (CPU/GPU full speed) and change between them with a single click?

Do you have NHC running + the HP power manegment software? It's just because I give a lot of presentations and it would be crucial for me to be able to switch to a presentation mode with a single click = silent, NO STANDBY!!!/NO SCREENSAVER/NO HD STANDBY (even if you don't touch it for a while)

Can you do this with NHC? Or can you do this with the HP software, having NHC running in the background for keeping fan speed down?

Thanks a lot for all your explanations

 

Any comments on the convenience of NHC on the NC8430?

Can you use NHC the set basic fan speed to 20% and still use the presentation mode settings (Screensaver off, standby off, etc)?

 

Unfortunatelly, no. NHC can control only the PowerPlay itself, it cannot underclock/undervolt the X1600. You have to use Ati Tray Tools to underclock the X1600, but to be honest, it will give you minimal temperature drop. If you set the PowePlay to Battery Optimized mode, you are ready to go.

Yes, but the profiles are available only in the registered (and I think not free) version.

I have no problems with running the NHC in background. In fact, I am using it only for CPU undervolting (which helps a lot!) and slowing down the fan (which helps even more ).

CPU speed is set still to Dynamic switching, which works the same as default in Widnows (i.e. power on demand with CPU idling at 1GHz, but speeding up to 2GHz when you need power).

That being said, you don't need any Presentation/Idle shortcuts, because both CPU undervolting and fan speed lowering doesn't affect speed. The nc8430 temperature is about the same when doing calculations, because undervolting makes the CPU cooler, but lower fan speed doesn't cool as good as before, so the temps are about the same (in fact a bit lower in my case).

Hope this helps,
Petr

 

Thanks a lot for your reply!

One more precise question

The presentation mode would concern me mainly to switch off the screensaver and standby mode and HD standby mode with a single click.

This should be possible with the HP presentation mode, however I am not sure if it still works if you install a third party powermanagement tool (like NHC)?

So if you have NHC running and you click on the presentation mode button, does it turn of automatic standby etc and remains silent at the same time?

Thanks a lot....

 

Well, I have uninstalled all HP software form my Windows XP, so somebody else will have to try...

 

Have just bought my nc8430.

The machine is
nc-8430-T7200 Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz
2 GB memory
HD 100GB
15.4" WSXGA display
DVD burner, double layer.

Have installed the basic stuff, can assess the noise level subjectively. give you an initial report with the machine connected to AC supply, not installed in its docking station, just surfing, mails etc, no games, video processing.

Background info to assess this subjective report:
- the machine is running in a quiet room, built of reinforced concrete (i.e. no creaking boards), with excellent sound insulation.
- the ambient temperature is 22°C
- my hearing is excellent. For professional reasons I had regular audiograms until 5 years ago and had an audiogram 6 months ago. My hearing is that of a healthy non-MP3-player-using non-discothek-using 20-year old. I can hear 16,000Hz beeps with ease and can just hear 18,000Hz.
- I am very intolerant of excessive noise such as the acoustic wallpaper in stores and restaurants and constantly make a fuss in restaurants about the "music", i.e. noise, from their loudspeakers.
- I have not yet installed any fan-controller software on my machine.

The HP nc8430 noise level when surfing and checking mails is a low-level soft hiss of air which varies in volume and which I find quite tolerable. It is almost inaudible at a distance of 2 metres / 6 feet from the machine. It is a blessed relief in comparison to the noise from my desktop.

I would buy this laptop again.

Hope this is of some help.

 

Install NHC eith the proper ACPI profile and you will be even hapier

 

This is what I said in another thread:

Well I am dissapointed in the fan noise on this. Everyone says "it's so quiet, you can hardly hear it" - well this must be the younger generation who have blown their ears out listening to MP3 players, etc. My last notebook was dead silent: an Inspiron 8100, an oldie I know, but it had a Geforce 2 which required decent cooling just as the X1600 of the NC8430 also requires decent cooling. If you are listening to music, you won't hear it, but if you work in very quiet environment (I often work late at night by myself) then you will hear it and quite possible be annoyed by it. I am going to try playing with some of the options petrv was trying, but that's not exactly the solution I was hoping for.

 

A colleague of mine now also bought this laptop. So I was finally able to look at it in real life As pacman described (very nicely), with plugged in AC it makes a constant fan noise. In our noisy lab you can only hear this with your head close to the keyboard. However, in a silent room you can hear it clearly when sitting at your laptop. Its no longer audible when you step back 3 meters. On battery it is silent for a few seconds, than the fan runs for a few seconds, than silent again, and so on...

I think the AC noise might be tolerable, however it is clearly louder than I expected (and I agree with da66en, I am kind of dissapointed).

 

once i tweaked ACPI and got it down to 0% and 15% under normal usage I was very pleased...

until I did it was running at 35 / 55 most of the time and was worse than my old toshiba.

pacman - the noise floor in whatever environment you're in when you're using your laptop and desktop must be quite high.. in a very quiet setting this thing isn't quiet at all on AC power (until tweaked) compared to most laptops.

 

I did not really get NHC to run, when I installed it the fan went to max. and stayed there. As it is not my laptop, I dont have much time to play. Maybe somebody can say which of the million HP files in the NHC forum I have to use to reduce fan speed to 20%?

thanks

 

Use the very first one on first page. They are still working on it, so stay tuned...