Odd behaviour in nc8430

I'll have had my nc8430 a week tomorrow. I generally love it.

However, I've noticed a couple little things that seem to have been growing in frequency:

1.Every half hour to hour the computer just hangs for about 10-30 seconds. If music is playing the sound just stutters the whole time and I have absolutely no mouse response at all. I've had task manager open during these times and there is no noticable spike in processor or memory usage leading upto or coming after one of these events. I initially thought it might be the new version of Winamp, but it occurs even with winamp off.

2. Occasionally the screen flickers, for just a second, to some alternate image, seemingly a screen with text on it. I believe it happens less frequently than the aforementioned hangups, but I'm not positive. I've noticed this happening since I got the laptop (in fact just just happened) and it's not nearly as annoying as the hang, but it's still something that shouldn't be happening on a week-old install of windows.

Complete scans by Avast, Spybot and Adaware have turned up nothing more malicious than run-of-the-mill browser cookies.

I'm running what HP considers all the latest drivers and the same install of windows tha came on the machine.

Attached is the "Hijackthis.exe" logfile from my computer shortly after boot.

Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

It seems to me that something turns on from time to time and eats all your resoruces. Try removing some of the processes; trial and error should help you find the culprit. Go to msconfig and disable the unnecessary stuff (you can always re-enable them later) and try it.

 

I've seen this happening on a fresh install of XP on the nc8430. While I don't have the first problem, I do see the second problem once in a while...happens when I use my TV Tuner software or play a large video. I don't think I've seen this problem with the Catalyst drivers straight from ATI, but I have my reasons for not going with those right now. You might want to try them out, and let me know if they show the same problem.

I also know that the display gets goofy for a second when the GPU changes clock speeds...this might explain that behavior, but I don't think the GPU dynamically changes settings.

 

You mean the 'mobile' drivers they have? HP isn't listed among the 'supported manufacturers'

I had this problem before with my Dell. Is there some other way to get them, or are you talking about different drivers all-together?

 

The sticky for GPU Drivers in the Gaming forum have a link to download the Catalyst drivers directly. No, HP isn't listed.

The only problem with the Catalyst drivers (that I can find so far) are that the desktop resolution will change to a much lower setting when resuming from a Standby, Hibernate, or Screen Saver session in which the LCD was off. When it turns back on, that's when the res changes. The only way to correct it to is turn off the LCD (then back on), or change anything in the desktop properties window (thus forcing an update of res).

Since I move around a lot with this notebook, I don't consider that "flaw" acceptable and have since reverted back to the HP drivers to circumvent that issue. It only results in a minor impact on gaming...only 30-50 point loss in 3dMark05 so the effect really isn't noticable.

If the HP drivers are the reason for the blanking out issue though, I'm going to notify their tech support that a driver update is REALLY needed.

 

The blanking is a lot less noticable and frankly I wouldn't care at all if that was the only thing 'wrong' with it.

But it isnt the only thing. This hanging thing is downright troubling. I have two cores. Why is it hanging at all? Task manager does show a spike to 100% usage in core #1, but the other one is just idling at that time.

The only services I have enabled in msconfig are the 4 total for Avast, the bluetooth stack and my AFS client for getting to my files stored on my school's servers.

I've been continuing to remove services and items from the startup list in msconfig, but it keeps happening.

For what it's worth, I haven't noticed this halting problem when on battery power, but I only put an hour or two per day on the battery, so there's a good chance it just hasn't happened yet.

 

I'm still puzzled on the hanging problem. I only had that happen one time, when my Catalyst driver install went bad I think. Try downloading and updating all the drivers back to the ones that HP lists on the website. Also, when installing the ATI drivers follow these steps:

1) Uninstall all things ATI
2) Reboot to safe mode
3) Run Driver Cleaner Pro (have it clean all ATI stuff)
4) Reboot to normal mode
5) Install drivers

That might help a little bit, but I'm not sure. It is worth a shot.

 

I am not having any of the two major issues that was initialy reported in this thread. I do have the latest ATI drivers and do have the resolution problem that was subsequently reported and it is annoying.

 

If you use the HP drivers for the X1600 that doesn't happen. I've tested them out, and I don't really SEE any loss in performance yet. Just a 50 point hit on 3dMark05 (50 out of ~4000pts).

 

So far I have only used the HP ATI drivers for my graphics card.

I tried the afore-recommended uninstall, driver cleaner, reinstall of ATI items (I wasn't running CCC, anyway) and it's still happening. In fact, it just happened about 20 minutes ago while I was in class on battery power, which I've never noted happening before (the hang on battery power).

I'm thinking I'm going to get HP tech support involved in this. If it is some of their software causing this, they should know and work to fix it.

As it stands, I have Avast! anti-virus (my next guess as the culprit, I'll switch back to Symantec or McAfee), bluetooth and AFS as my only startup services.

On the "startup" tab I have touchpad drivers, HP's recovery partition guard, sound controls, Avast, Ati Tray tools, bluetooth and AFS.

Thats it. I really can't imagine turning too many more of those off.

Like I mentioned before, I'll switch anti-virus software back to Symantec (Corp. edition) and see if that has any effect.

If it doesnt, I'm getting on HP's case.

 

Before you do that, just go to msconfig and disable all the non-Microsoft services. See if that makes a difference.

If it does stop the problem, then start turning on things one by one until it happens again. That'll show you the culprit.

If it doesn't stop the problem, it is almost certainly an HP problem.

 

For what it's worth, during the install of Symantec (after I rebooted post-uninstall of Avast) it hung (both cores, this time).

I'll play around a bit more but part of the reason I got a new laptop was to avoid fighting with stupid hardware problems like I had with my Dell.

 

Norton is known to cause a lot of problems, and mess up installations of Windows when removed. That might be part of the problem.

 

I'm using Symantec Antrivirus, not Norton. Norton is the consumer version, Plain 'ole Symantec is the corporate edition that my university makes available for free.
If Symantec still doesn't fix the problem I'll see if my McAfee subscription is still good and I'll try that and start getting on HP's case. Symantec does put 8 services on my machine, avast put 4 and I think macafee did fewer, but I'm not sure at this point.

 

Using the Official ATI Mobility drivers should work fine.

Night: I had the same issue upon resuming from hibernate or standby when the resolution would get all disheveled and I would have to reset it, which was unacceptable to me as well. However, after uninstalling all drivers and using Driver Cleaner Pro, I reinstalled the Mobility Catalyst 6.9 (I think, maybe 6.8) and they work perfectly without the resuming from idle resolution error. The only thing that happens now is that sometimes returning from hibernate my mouse cursor will transform into this weird black line of vertical arrows/triangles, since which I re-installed the Synaptic driver.

But anyway, Catalyst drivers should work well. Give them a shot.

 

I will try that out either this weekend or on Monday. Thanks for the tip...maybe they updated 6.9 a little to fix the issue. I'm sure I ran DCP when I uninstalled everything...the first time I tried 6.9

 

Well, I went through all of that (for the second time) and the same issues are still showing up...

 

Well ::knock on wood:: it seems that uninstalling Avast and reinstalling Symantec has helped. I've read some places that AV software like McAfee or Symantec can screw up other software even after it's been uninstalled because of certain registry entries. I think I might uninstall symantec, make sure the registry is free of it and the install Avast and see if that remedies the situation.

I'll post the results of that whenever it gets done.

 

Thanks Beltonius...considering I'm planning on moving away from Norton eventually, it will be nice to know if that would fix it.

Somehow, I would not be surprised if Norton could cause any and all problems.

 

Well, I'm going to try very hard and find AV software other than Symantec (8 processes) to use; I only get about 2.5 hours of battery life with it running as opposed to 3-4+ as I did with Avast(4 processes). Also, since I reinstalled symantec I've had problems with my fingerprint reader and my wireless connection.

What AV software do you guys use? I know for OSS options there's Avast and what else?

 

Really...battery life is increased THAT much? Try out Trend Micro...I'm probably going to move to that in the long run.

I haven't had any problems with my wireless connection though...

 

There's an interesting site about AV programs at http://www.av-comparatives.org/. Checking the latest tests you will see that Avira AntiVir PersonalEditon ( http://www.free-av.com/) is the best program. And it's free. And it only uses one or two processes and a lot less memory than programs like Norton or so. The only issue is eventually that it lacks a firewall. It's a german program and probably not known in the US but you should definitely check it out and give it a try.

 

Ever since service pack 2 and my religious use of firefox and gmail I haven't even run any AV or anti-Spyware programs, on any of my computers.

It's wonderful

 

I use the WinXP firewall; it's given me the least problems of any firewall I've used.

I'm trying out Avira (after cleaning the registry to make sure all remnants of Symantec were gone). I might also try Avast again (I really liked it except for the whole hanging the computer thing) with a registry clean inbetween unintall/installs. Again, I'll post results when that gets done.

 

well, crap.

i'm getting the hangs, exactly as described originally in the first post in this thread...

happens when plugged in and on battery probably at least once or twice an hour, and I don't have any anti-virus or anti-spyware software installed at all.

i've also disabled a ton of atuo-starting services.. currently with firefox and notepad open I only have 36 processes running.

any further ideas / suggestions?

 

What are the specs on your machine and when did you get it?

Are you running ATI's CCC, HP's CCC or something else entirely? I'm almost certain it has nothing to do with AV software.

For a bit I wondered if it were RightMark, but I've disabled that and still had the hangs.

Currently I'm running AVG anti-virus, ATI's cat 6.10 drivers (with ATI's control center) and using Rightmark to undervolt the CPU.

I'm having some wacky things happen with my BT setup since I tried uninstalling and reinstalling that (in an effort to at least eliminate that as a suspect), but I think I've ruled BT out as a culprit. Similarly, I've tried updating various network drivers, to no avail. I tried switching to Intel's Wireless config utility but that didn't change anything.

I've posted this same problem on HP's customer forum, but noone's responded yet about the hanging problem, just about my BT woes. (Basically I broke the "my bluetooth places" and other things during the reinstall of the drivers/stack).

 

Well, I got my BT all sorted out, but the problem persists with the hangs, unfortunately.

 

The more and more this seems like a driver issue, the harder it is for me to believe that only one other person has had this problem.

I've contacted HP tech support by e-mail, but they have not yet responded.

 

I've had my new nc8430 for a couple of days and I'm having the 2-5 second hang problem. I am almost certain this is a hardware/driver issue (no really proof). HP are really slow at fixing driver issues, previous laptop was HP, they never updated the video driver.

HP nc8430 (RB555A), 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo, 15.4" WXSGA+, x1600 256MB, 2GB DDR667 RAM, ~100 GB 7200RPM SATA HDD, Bluetooth and Intel A/B/G Wireless

 

OK, Update:

Over thanksgiving I restored my laptop with the recovery partition.
I didn't notice any hangs until I installed RMClock. I removed it and installed NHC instead which seemed to fix the problem, but then they came back, even w/o NHC running. Needless to say I'm quite peeved.
HP seems intent on taking a look at the laptop itself; I'm planning on taking them up on that in a couple of weeks after the semester's over and I'm on winter break.

One of my most windows-savvy friends suggested that I keep task manager or Sysinternal's Process explorer open with Kernel times visible (in task manager, performance tab, view -> Show Kernel Times) to see whether it's just the CPU being used 100% or if the heart of the OS itself (the kernel) was taking up all the processing power during a hang. If kernel time spikes to ~100% during a hang, it strongly points to a driver as the culprit.
The long and short of it, is that I did notice kernel time spiking to ~100% during a hang. It's almost certainly a driver issue. I'm currently suspecting Bluetooth, more on that in a second.

After the reinstall and the switch from RMClock -> NHC -> No power management, and an update to the latest graphics drivers found on HP's website, I was in class, on battery power, and noted that windows estimated a total of 3.5 hours of battery life (found by taking current time left and dividing by battery percentage (eg 2:45 and 80% would be 2.75/.8 = 3.44 h)) but then it hung and it dropped to ~2 h of total battery life. My first guess was that something busted in the graphics drivers during the hang that screwed up Powerplay, since when I reinstalled CCC when I first got the laptop, after running w/o any graphics control suite, I noted a jump from ~2.5 -> 3.5h battery life, computed as noted above. But then on a second and third thought it seemed unlikely that something corrupted in the graphics drivers since a reboot didn't repair the battery life.
Following that I came home, shut down and physically removed the BT chip. No hangs in several hours of use, so I reinstalled the chip and am waiting for a hang to happen.
I'm running the HP BT drivers that were installed upon recovery; I don't think the ones on the website are any newer.

Long story short: I'm still not sure what causes the hangs, but I'm pretty sure it's a driver. Just which one I'm not sure.

Might the people who are also having hangs check the firmware version of their BT modules? Actually, if anyone with a nc8430 could check that, I wonder if run of the modules from Broadcom came with different firmware installed. I think it's printed on the module itself; I'll post my version here after my next reboot.

 

Oh, right, more BT things:

My BT mouse drops connections far too often; this was never a problem on my Dell, which used the same Widcomm BT stack. Also, if I disable the mouse from "My Bluetooth Places" then I scan it says it can't find a local BT device and then I use the wireless enable/disable button to disable and then re-enable and re-scan for local devices and then my mouse connects again.

Additionally, when I run Windows Update there's an optional hardware update for a "Broadcom - Other Hardware - HP Bluetooth Module" which always shows up, even after it claims it has successfully installed.

Anyone else experiencing similar issues? These are a couple more reasons why I suspect BT as being the source of these problems.

 

Hi All,
I didn't notice anybody mentioning their power settings. Not saying this is the problem but they could be. Also on the Avast question that is the AV i use and have had no problems with it.

In any case I hope you all get this worked out.

 

I'm currently using the standard windows power management on Portable/Laptop settings. I'm using AVG AV; I've used Avast in the past as well, but I've had the hangs across numerous different AV programs: Avira, Symantec, AVG, Avast.

So I popped open the BT module and found the following info:
Broadcom BCM92045NMD
Firmware v.118 Rev:0B

How does that compare to the people with and without these hanging problems?

 

To the 2 or 3 other people who have posted that they have this same hanging problem; when did you get your laptops? I ordered mine at the end of september and got it mid-october (due to supply delays from the T7200).

I'm almost positive that this is all a driver issue, since it cropped back up after a reinstall/reupdate of windows.

Seriously, is this problem that rare? I have a hard time believing that a driver issue could affect so few people on such a popular model laptop as the nc8430.

 

Update:

Perhaps it isn't BT after all...I've disabled the BT module in-BIOS, so windows doesn't even know it's installed, and i still suffer from the hanging problem.

I'm really at my wits end, once I get home for break this thing is going in for service. If they can't resolve it, I'm going to try and return it. It's a great laptop except for this thing that makes it utterly unreliable and almost useless for anything aside from web-browsing and word-processing (and if that's all I'm going to use it for, I'd be better off spending $2000 on a cheap laptop and a sweet desktop).

 

OK, so after a 3-week ordeal getting my laptop sent in for repairs, then sent back in to repair the repairs (they swapped in a 'new' mobo with an activated TPM or some-such that I couldn't even boot with, and then they were unable to get a box to the right address for almost 2 weeks).

Anywho, the problem persists. I'm almost positive it's the BT module itself. They put the same module back in (even after I explained that the problem seemed to lay with the BT module) and now the default windows BT stack won't even recognize the BT module's even there.

The HP stack was not working right either: "my bluetooth places" refused to open at all and it kept dropping connections to my Microsoft BT mouse, as it did before.

Anyone have any suggestions other than calling up HP and telling them they are sending me a new BT module?

 

I'd suggest a few things here:
1) Run DriverCleanerPro to delete the old (and improperly installed) drivers. Run it's CAB cleaner as well. Run CCleaner while you are at it, just to make sure. That might solve the driver issue but I'm not 100% sure.
2) Reseat the BT module.

 

As far as I can tell, Driver Cleaner only deals with Graphics drivers (and sound too, perhaps?) I'd just as soon not shell out $10 for software that isn't applicable.

I have reseated the BT module, both ends of the cable too.

 

Dang it...what do you have besides your notebook? What peripherals? AFAIK, DCP didn't cost $10 but thats cool...

If it were a driver issue I'd think more would be complaining about this...maybe it's a driver that comes with something that you have but many do not.

What has HP replaced on your notebook so far? Forgive me for asking, but I've been away for a while on this thread.

 

Oh yea, how could've I forgotten? The Brightness up/down/light sensor keyboard shortcuts no longer work!

The sensor works when I use the Quicklaunch Buttons software to turn it on and off. The backlight also automatically drops in brightness when on battery power when the sensor is off also, but I can't find a place to manually adjust the brightness since those hotkeys/shortcuts are gone.

Seriously, if HP swapped in another questionable mobo into this thing, that's it, seriously. Not worth it. At all.

I've already filed a BBB complaint against HP about the crap-tastic tech support I got from their Memphis, TN facility (oddly enough the tech's in India were helpful but useless. They didn't break anything, at least, unlike Memphis). They have until Feb 9 to respond to that one.

@Night:
You mean like, what peripherals in total I have connected to my laptop? Well I have the docking station, and connected to that there is a USB harddrive, a logitech wired optical mouse, a pair of USB hubs, one with a card-reader, my PDA dock and cables for my camera and mp3 player, and the other with a USB number pad. I also have an external LCD (VGA) monitor attached via the docking station and 3 F/W hard-drives connected via the built-in F/W port.

While I haven't noticed it in the last couple of days, in the past it also hanged (hung?) while on battery power with no peripherals attached (unless you count being connected to my school's wi-fi a 'peripheral').

If you meant what other BT peripherals I have, I have my BT mouse, my PDA, a keyboard for my PDA and my phone. I have not tried the keyboard with this laptop at all and have successfully synced my phone and my PDA to the computer over bluetooth (but only when running the HP stack, as far as I can recall)

 

If backing up your files and reinstalling your programs isn't that much of a hassle, I would definitely try formatting your drive and reinstalling Windows and all necessary drivers. Unless you are really satisfied with your notebook and want to only exchange one part, if it is indeed faulty, I would ask HP for a replacement, straight-up.

Also, don't expect the situation to be resolved immediately, even with intervention from the BBB. I filed my BBB complaint against HP two weeks ago, and I still won't be receiving my notebook for another week. Hopefully HP will be quicker to act on your situation. On the bright side, at least HP got your notebook back to you within 3 weeks. I have been without mine for 1 month, and counting.

 

@miufahkiu
I already reinstalled windows once and the problem came back after about 2-3 days. I could do it again but I'd be shocked that it would fix it permanently this time.

I really don't know what I want to do if I can not resolve this quickly. I almost feel like, judging by my previous experience, that returning it would be a huge hassle, and then I'd have to likely wait for the refund check and then I'd be able to order a new laptop.

The real issue is that I don't know if I can find another laptop for the same price point (~$2000 including 4-year ship-in warranty and docking station) that meets my requirements, on paper, at least. (C2D, >1280x____ res, powerful graphics, docking (preferred, but not absolutely required) and solid build quality and support, obviously HP's been shaky on the last two counts))

The T60 is really tempting but lacks firewire and has the x1400 GPU.

The Asus V1J/p doesn't have the warranty and costs a few hundred dollars more (once the docking station is included) than the nc8430.

The Dell D620/D820 might fit the bill (I don't know how the Quadro NVS 110/120 stacks up to the x1600) but I'm still a little wary of Dell, but not nearly as much as I am of HP by now.

 

I wrote HP an e-mail last night informing them that they would be sending me a new Bluetooth module as well as Windows XP Pro OEM install disks.
Much to my delight they responded within four hours asking simply for a shipping address.

 

So, unlike in the past, when I pull the BT module, the "Bluetooth Bus Enumerator" remains in 'Device Manager'. It has the HP bluetooth icon, rather than the Windows one, making me think that some remnants of HP's BT drivers are still on my system and that's what's making the hangs persist, even after uninstalling the HP drivers and pulling the module.

Anyone know of a method to remove the "Bus Enumerator" device?

 

OK, so this morning when I woke up it was acting "weird" (mis-registering clicks and whatnot) so I rebooted. After the HP splash screen it just has a blinking DOS cursor in the upper left corner and makes loud beeping from the PC speaker.

I've run the BIOS-based Memory check (all successful) and am now 60% through the comprehensive HDD check (the quick one succeeded).

I'm well past fed up with this machine. I'm returning this infernal contraption if I have to get a lawyer and fight for every last cent.

This, pardon my language, has been ****ING RIDICULOUS!

HP apparently spreads lies on their website: http://www.hp.com/sbso/solutions/pc_expertise/professional_innovations/index.html

"Reliability Testing procedure" my butt. As far as I can tell they keep throwing unvalidated motherboards into my laptop. The warranty even says that your 'new' laptop might not contain all new parts! As I've already told them: they've already lost a customer and now they've made an enemy.

 

Oh, an to top it off, I got a voice mail while running the memory test telling me that the Bluetooth module they ordered for me is back-ordered.

Just a phenomenal day for the incompetents at HP.

 

Hi,

sorry to dig up this old post but it seems to be the only one about this ******* hangs problem.

I would like to know if you finally find what really causes these hangs ?

 

you know, I still get these, and they still drive me nuts.

But I have an interesting bit of info that might help...

I run my laptop in linux (ubuntu) now more often than windows... and in linux... no hangs.

it's probably driver related afterall.. would be interesting if someone finally nails this down..