P7550 virtualization?

For those who've configured their laptops with the Core 2 Duo P7550, does this CPU have support for virtualization?

Information on this particular model is extremely scarce at the moment. Intel doesn't even have it listed on their site. I ask because Windows 7's Virtual PC and XP Mode require hardware virtualization support and I personally don't think it's worth the extra money to upgrade to a P8XXX series CPU just for it.

So P7350 and P7450 do not support virtualization but the P7370 does, so I'm guessing that the P7550 doesn't either and only the P7X70 models (which are only offered in HP's business laptops) have virtualization support. Does anyone happen to know?

Thanks!

 

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=42014

 

In any case you'll have to enable it in the BIOS because all HP laptops ship with VT disabled.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=408953

Even though that information is from Intel's site directly, they often have misinformation about whether the processor supports VT-x. This has happened with the T6500 and the P7350 as discussed on Intel forums here:

T6500
http://communities.intel.com/thread/5089?tstart=1
http://communities.intel.com/message/34486

P7350
http://software.intel.com/en-us/foru...t/topic/60686/

It would be safe to assume that the information about VT-x support provided for the p7550 is also incorrect. As many people have discovered, Intel's website is extremely unreliable and inaccurate.

In general, all P7000 series processors do not support VT-x except for P7x70 models (the xx70 suffix seems to apply to all other non VT-x supporting processor series as well such as the T6000 series and below), which are available only for business oriented laptops.

Example:
P7350
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=36750&code=p7350
http://processorfinder.intel.com/Det...px?sSpec=SLB53
P7370
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37117&code=p7370
http://processorfinder.intel.com/Det...px?sSpec=SLGF9

For consumer oriented laptops, you would need at least a P8000 processor or T7000 processor to have support for VT-x.

 

Well, I just got burned by this. A few weeks ago the spec sheet on Intel's site did claim VT support. So I spent an extra hundred bucks for my HDX16 with a VT-enabled CPU. Then the specs got changed on Intel's site after that.

I was just trying to install XP Mode on Win7 which just led me down this path. It seems to have happened to others as well:

http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/virtualization-software-development/topic/68640/

So I suppose I could return the laptop. I wonder if it's worth the hassle. If I were to complain about this to HP, would they open up my laptop and upgrade the CPU, or make a new build? Or would they even care at all? I'm sure they can blame-shift to Intel, who will in turn blame-shift to HP.

Anyone have any suggestions?

To add insult to injury, my 2.5 year-old HP DV6000 with 1.8Ghz Core2Duo that I upgraded from has Intel VT.

 

cpuz is usually pretty accurate when picking up support for vt/hx

 

Well, this keeps getting more interesting. Apparently if you bought an Apple laptop with the P7550, your CPU supports Intel VT:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=729110
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=10005976

I've attached my CPU-Z screenshot. I imagine that I'm looking for a "VMX" under the Instructions list, but it's not there. I wonder about the behavior of CPU-Z in the case that the CPU supports Intel VT but BIOS support has been disabled.

At this point I strongly believe that the CPU supports the feature but HP has it locked out in the BIOS. I'm pretty certain that HDX16s with the higher-end CPUs like the P8xxx series have VT. I'd like to hear comments from owners of these systems.

To further my conspiracy theory - if you look at the post from the Intel forums I referenced earlier, you can see that the original specs were changed recently. I believe this was done due to this very problem. I can really only find two manufacturers who've sold this CPU - Apple and HP. There's lot of posts by upset HP users about this, several of whom posted in the Intel thread. So the Intel guy removes the spec to prevent further problems from "informed" HP customers who diligently check tech specs before making a purchase.

All this being said, what is the best way to proceed with HP? I have seen support threads regarding other HP products where this problem came up and a BIOS update was released to fix the problem. I'd love to see that happen, but is it worth fighting for? I'm still barely within my return period, but the next level CPU available for this laptop which claims VT support is $100 more.

 

It is very easy for a laptop maker to lock out VT via the bios. The bios is built to shut off and hide the VT capabilities and offer no way to turn it on.

Nearly everyone does it. Everyone.

 

The craziest part about this is the lack of consistency and inaccurate documentation. If HP/Sony/Whoever is so against having Intel VT in their consumer laptops, why not make it standard to disable it across all platforms and document it?

Why don't laptop manufacturers clamp down on this hard? Why does my pitiful consumer-grade DV6000 have the feature?

As a further interesting note, archive.org can access ark.intel.com, but cannot access any of the sub-pages with the CPU specs.

 

FWIW, I dont believe CPU-Z is capable of determining whether a cpu supports VT or not. A utility like Securable should be more reliable than CPU-Z...
http://www.grc.com/securable.htm

Also, if I can remember, VT support was only available with the models ending with P7x70. As far as pursuing this with HP is concerned, unless they mentioned VT support then there isnt much other than if you are within the 21 day return window, just return it and reorder with one which has VT support.

BTW, I dont belive that HP locks out VT support, they just disable it by default but provide a method to re enable in the bios. Even my tx2500z had that option in the bios.

 

your tx2500z is AMD though, usually AMD is better with not gimping features out of their chips than intel. IIRC I think most if not every AMD CPU that has come out for the last few years supports virtualization.

 

Go to HP and look at a unit "Overview" page. Under the subtitle “Your PC Simplified” click on the highlighted text in the last bullet that says "Windows XP Mode". This is what it says about VT:

What is Windows XP Mode?
Windows XP Mode is a virtual OS that runs within the Windows 7 Professional environment. Windows XP Mode makes it easy to install and run many1 older Windows XP-compatible business and productivity applications by launching them directly from the Windows 7 desktop. The XP Mode license is included with Windows 7 Professional.

Hardware and OS requirements
To run Windows XP Mode, your laptop must be configured with Windows 7 Professional and an appropriate processor that supports virtualization technology.

AMD laptops: all AMD processors except Sempron support virtualization.

Intel laptops: for a complete list of Intel processors that support XP Mode, please see http://ark.intel.com/VTList.aspx. Here is a partial list:

Intel Core2 Quad Q9000 and Core i7 series
QuadCore Q9000 (2.0GHz) 1066MHz FSB 6MB/L2
QuadCore Q9100 (2.26GHz) 1066MHz FSB 12MB/L2
Core i7-720QM (1.6GHz to 2.8GHz, 1333MHz,4C/8T MB Cache)
Core i7-820QM (1.73GHz to 3.06GHz, 1333MHz,4C/8T MB Cache)

Intel Core2 Duo T9000, P9000, P8000 series
Core 2 Duo P8700 (2.53GHz) 1066MHz FSB 3MB/L2
Core 2 Duo P8800 (2.4GHz) 1066MHz FSB 3MB/L2
Core 2 Duo T9600 (2.93GHz) 1066MHz FSB 6MB/L2
Core 2 Duo T9900 (2.93GHz) 1066MHz FSB 6MB/L2

Intel Core 2 Duo (SFF) SP9000, SL9000, SU9000 series
SL9600 (2.13GHz, 1066MHz, 6MB L2)
SU9600 (1.6GHz)
SL9400 (1.86GHz, 1066MHz, 6MB L2)
Core 2 Duo SP9300.

Download Windows XP Mode software
If your laptop has Windows 7 Professional and the appropriate processor, you can download Windows XP Mode software free of charge from the Microsoft Web site, http://www.windows.com/virtual-pc. Configure system BIOS to enable Windows XP Mode. Once Windows XP Mode software has been downloaded and installed on your laptop, you must configure the system BIOS to enable Virtualization Technology:

1. Turn on or restart the computer. While the “Press the ESC key for Startup Menu” message is displayed in the lower left corner of the screen, press f10.
2. Use the arrow keys to select System Configuration > Virtualization Technology, then press Enter.
3. Use the arrow keys to toggle the status field to Enable, then press Enter.
4. Press f10 to save your change and exit System Configuration, then press Enter.

For more information on Windows XP Mode, visit http://www.windows.com/virtual-pc.
1. Does not support complex gaming or heavy 3D graphics related applications.

 

So HP allows only the high-end chips that add $200+ to the price of the laptop to have VT capabilities.

 

I originally ran into this issue about this time last year when trying to spec out a DV4t for my daughter. At the time the P7350 was new and was clearly indicated as having VT by Intel while folks here at NBR ( Miner I think) were reporting that the VT feature seemed to only be available through the BIOS with the 8000 series processors. At the same time, HP made no VT capability distinctions between any of the “P” series chips on their web site. You had to do some research to find out if there was a difference. A few weeks later Intel updated their specs to indicate that the P7350 did not support VT.

AFAIK the lack of a clear VT capabilities distinction by HP remained true until yesterday with the release of Win 7 and the XP Mode information I posted above. After having done some research on the Intel forums though, I came to the conclusion some time ago that HP either:

1. Requested that Intel de-activate the VT capability on the chip or
2. Deactivated VT through the BIOS themselves.

My guess is that the marketing geniuses at HP and other companies requested that Intel deactivate VT but who knows. In any case however, yes you’re right, it cost more to get an Intel processor with VT. How much more I think depends on your point of view.

To jump from a “T” to a “P” series processor costs $150 minimum. This gives you the 25w advantage. If you want VT, that’s another $50 minimum. It was that way when I purchased the DV4t with a P7350 and the next available processor was the P8400 and it remains that way today with the P7550 and the next available being the P8700.

Still…. It seems very cheesy on HPs part to have invented this price step.

 

would it be worth pursing a class action against Intel? Seems like quite a few people got hosed on Intel misrepresenting their processors specs.

I bought the P7350 thinking it was the cheapest 45nm Core2 that had VT since Intel listed so on their site, but 2 months later they changed the site to say otherwise and not I can't fully utilize Windows 7 or virtual PCs.

 

Oh, please do! There are MANY people on Intel's very own forums that would support that move without hesitation. Intel has done this not once, but thrice as far as I know: once with the P7350, again with the T6500, and now with the P7550. There's evidence posted in one of the Intel forum threads that I posted earlier. I would LOVE to see Intel get burned because of this. They owe us a free upgrade to a VT-x processor.

 

Hey dynamius, I know this seem out of no where, but do you have Bios file F.07 for Dv3t-2000 still? I just got mine and I want to downgrade to F.06 but I'm just worried I won't be able to go back if i want to. I am having the same screen flickering when viewing dark colors. HP's website doesn't have the F.07 file anymore. I would appreciate it if you let me know if you do.
Thanks

 

Wow. Miraculously YES, I do. I thought I deleted it after knowing I'd never go back to it. I think it's safe to say that you won't need it as once you've finished putting F.06 on your machine as you'll never go back to it. At least it'll give you some peace of mind having it just in case.

PM me your email address and I'll send it over as an attachment. I can't post zip files that are over something like 500KB.

Oh, turn on your private messaging and you can just PM me next time... that and I can't message you.

 

CrystalCPUID is a better util than CPU-Z for checking if the Virtulisation is enabled or not.

I use it with the for mentioned securable checker.

http://crystalmark.info/software/CrystalCPUID/index-e.html

 

I have a feeling that everyone is mistaken which chip is really inside the Macs. I don't think it's a P7550. It's more likely a P8400 or a P7570, which is the VT-x variant available only in business line laptops from HP. Apple never really specifies which Core 2 Duo, and I can't seem to find it anywhere on a Macbook, not even in system info. Ok, I have no idea.

Yeah, I eventually gave up on VT-x after finding out that I had to bump it all the way up to a P8000 series processor. Fortunately, I have a desktop with a Q9450 that supports VT-x, so for me it wasn't worth an additional $150 for the laptop.

If you need it, I would definitely return that laptop and get it configured to your liking, this time with a P8000 series processor. I'd talk to the supervisor at HP customer service and explain the situation and maybe, just maybe, they might give you some sort of discount for the misunderstanding. If you really wanted to go low, just mention Dell and they'll do anything. But yes, it sounds like it's something you'll be using so if you don't, you'll be constantly thinking about it.

 

I think I'm going to give up as well and live with what I have. I mainly wanted VT for XP Mode and 64-bit OS virtualization, but I guess I'll just do things the old-fashioned way with 32-bit OSs in Virtualbox. At least with the P7550 I got the higher speed FSB.

The price premium for the benefit gained is probably just not worth it. I guess the only real issue would be that some time in the future newer operating systems aren't released in a 32-bit version.