Problems with Hp 8510P

Hi Guys,

i´m new to this board, but i hope i´ll get some help here.

Got my new Hp8510p yesterday and i am (was, dunno right now ) very happy with my new HP.
The trouble started when i downgraded from Vista x64 to XP Pro.
I did everything correct i think, slipstreamed the sata driver to my xp cd, installed xp pro.
Everything seemed to look fine and i started installing the drivers. Restarting, installing next driver , and so on.... until Xp gave me " the bluescreen " after the login.
So i thought something went wrong, maybe it was my fault. I installed XP Pro again, installed the drivers, and this time the bluescreen was even happening to me before windows login.

Did any of you guys have had similar experiences ? Is there something i miss ?
I´ve downloaded the original drivers from hp, so is there a problem with those drivers ?

Another sad point about my new 8510P , about an hour ago the ac adapter has gone up in smoke. Made a strange noise, just like something was imploding in there.
And now the ac adapter does not work anymore, no more recharging the battery.

Did some of you made similar experiences or is the bad luck only mine ?

 

Is it necessary to slipstream the sata drivers? is this only if the CD doesnt comes with SP2?

 

There was no Cd for me.
I live in Germany, and bought from a reseller. Just had the option to burn a recovery from my hdd. The Notebook was shipped with Vista Business only.
I did pay about 1700 Euro which is quite much for a notebook here and you can probably guess how disappointed i was when i saw that there was no Cd coming with it.

 

I would call and have HP replace the unit with a new one for you and maybe chuck in a free HP XP CD!

 

By replace the unit you mean the ac adapter ? or the whole notebook ?

i fear this incident could have effect on the lifetime of my new notebook. infact the notebook did shut down when the ac adapter had gone up in smoke. it did not switch to battery mode and continue booting. this means there must have been some overvoltage.
Although the Notebook is stil alive and running on battery mode i´m afraid it´ll have some aftereffects.
Do you think HP will replace the whole Notebook ?

best

 

Ouch, that's just bad luck there. You can definitely get them to give you a new ac adapter. I doubt they'll throw in a new laptop unless you can prove there's something wrong. I would just get their XP Pro disk and system driver disk while you ask for a new ac adapter. They might even throw it in for free due to your troubles.

 

What i usually do is tell them i use these HP business machines for work [i have a pro HP A3 printer] and i need these to be completely problem free within the warranty period. Also ask to speak to a supervisor. When you do that they usually call back and tell you a new part is on it's way

also, if things arnt going well. tell them this is extremely inconvenient and you are loosing productivity because of it. It is a business class machine after all

 

Dont you think people from HP will read this?

 

Out of the 1000 business notebook users maybe 1 will use this "trick"? Is it even a trick, because you ARE losing productivity even for yourself by not using the notebook to it's fullest capacity

 

I tried installing an XP SP2 CD (generic copy) w/o slipstreaming drivers and it didn't work. Maybe the Hitachi drive in my 8510p was too new, I dunno. I actually haven't heard of anyone installing XP with their own CD who didn't have to slipstream first.

 

By generic copy I'm guessing you don't mean the one HP provides When I used the XP Pro disk I got from HP, XP Pro was installed on a clean HD (the 7k200 I bought). No slipstreaming was necessary.

 

If slipstreaming doesn't work you can disable native sata in bios. It worked when I was installing Windows XP on friends 6710.

 

Thanks Macpod,

will definitly try that. In my case i am really using it for business purposes. I do have my first title in Architecture ( in Germany it´s called Diploma I ) and going for my Diploma II.
But to finance my studies i do have to work hard for it.I´m self employed and working as a freelancer in Architecture, doing visualization, web design, Layout for other Architectural Bureaus.

As i´m just starting with my business, i do not have any backup plans if something like my hardware just goes up in smoke. And the kind of work i do does have fixed dates to be finished. So if my hardware is done , i´m done too. "And i hope the people of HP will read this "

cheers

 

@ zoidbergslo

when disabling native sata, in bios you will be loosing some sata features like hotswapping and NCQ ( native command queuing ).
Most people don´t even need the hotswapping feature, especially not for the internal notebook hdd. But NCQ will speed up access times.
To set this feature aside for a notebook will most likely cost you some performance. ( you´ve probably heard of this : it´s only as fast as it´s slowest part)

I´ve read at the HP Forum that somebody seems to have found out how to get native sata support after installing windows. If this does work i don´t know, but his procedure was something like this :
switching off native sata support before windows installation
-> installing windows
-> after installation he opened the hardware tab / device manager
-> properties of the ide ata/atapi controller
-> for the selected controller he choose to install an new driver
-> installed the sata driver and shut windows down
-> and before windows did restart he switched on the native sata in bios

thats how he managed to get the sata driver installed after windows installation, if this really works, i don´t know, but always worth a shot if you don´t have a slipstreamed XP cd or a floppy drive for you notebook.

 

same here. I just finished the equivalent of RIBA part II, but i dont think i want to do part III and be registered, pretty pointless if you dont practice yourself.

I'm thinking of going to work in the UK, Dubai or asia next year. will be taking a 8510P with me as well!

For us architects the 8510P really is a minimum. I would love to have an 8 core powermac with dual 8800GTX graphics card card but portability is important to me if im working overseas.

Oh yeh did you hear about 3DSMAX 2008? Apparently there will be real time rendering with texture and full lighting. this will save a lot of time because each rendering can be 'previewed' . Although i dont know how taxing this will be on the 3d card.

Anyway, goodluck with HP technical support.

 

yeah, 8 cores that would be a nice machine....
always dreamt of not having to go for a beer while waiting for my computer to finish the images.
and my Maxwellrenderings would not take hours and hours :SLEEP:

Quite interesting what you say about Max 2008, though i have not been working with it for years. Switched over to Maya when i made my projects for Lars Spuybroek. Maya got its Problems, but i guess i still like it. Right now i´m working with Rhino, Maya and Microstation, but always had a peek on Autodesks solutions, which seem to become better and better.

Maybe this will interest you, since youre an architect and working with 3d software. The reason why i´ve choosen the 8510p over the 8510w was not only the price. I guess the hd2600 mobility can be easily converted to a cad card. Over the last years Ati did a fine job of not locking their graphicscards by hardware, but on driverlevel. When i had to make a decision for either of the two notebooks ( 8510p and 8510w ) i stumbled over the graphics drivers for a firegl mobility 5600.
If you´re look a little bit into the matter you will find that ati lock it´s drivers by the hardware device id. the ati2mtag.sys needs to get forced using the device id of the cad equivalent of the consumercard.

since i found this i´m quite sure it can be done without any problems :
"ATI Mobility FireGL V5600" = ati2mtag_M76, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9581&SUBSYS_30DF103C
"ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600" = ati2mtag_M76, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9581&SUBSYS_30C5103C

Pci device id´s are the same, only the subsys is different. Since Ati themselves have not yet announced a mobility v5600 i wonder how HP did manage to get the device id´s from them.

The mod will just set free the opengl capabilities of the hd2600 which are locked on driverlevel, it will not change any physical parts of the card and it will not change any clocks of core or memory of the card.
I did the same mod for an ati x1400 in my old thinkpad, and that x1400 did not even have a firegl equivalent.

Of course i can not say i will try it myself ( maybe Hp is watching), but i will let you know if it works or not. Got to mention this : if you´re just using 3d max you will not have any improvements, since max is much faster with direct3d.

cheers

 

Yeh! A lot of Macbook pro users did that for the ATI x1600, converting it to a FireGL 5200.

Let me know if it works. Although all the software i use seem to be convering to Direct 3d.

I do want to learn rhino though and i know that takes advantage of OpenGL.

NOX do some fascinating stuff...I was discussing the Son-O-House with my tutor the other day. The built form looks exactly like a 3dsmax rendering. Did you work on that project?

 

Nope , did not work on that myself, but a girl a i know did do the surface tesselation.
The surface should have some special look and it should be made by some metalgrid ( sorry for my english in this case i don´t know the word).
And she found a nice solution for the surface itself.
What she did was arranging stripes of the material in a triangular way, the stripes were overlapping and closing the surface completely. Maybe i can dig out a picture or a drawing of what she did.

The sono house was a co-operation between Lars and a sound-artist. But the soundartist itself well i hate to say something like that, but his work did not fascinate me that much. The sounds rather bothered me. If you are in Europe you should definitely go to Eindhoven and take a look at it. make your own picture, especially at a sunny day the whole surface is changing it´s looks all the time. Thats because of the tesselation that was used.

// edit

should tell you this too.
Lars himself was so pleased with the looks of this surface when he saw how it would be looking.
One day Lars was sitting in his bureau and when i came to him he smiled in a childish sweet manner and he explained to me how the tesselation works, and what happens when you change viewpoints and how the surface will change opacity. Man he really loves it himself and at that day he was so pleased with his work and all the people around him.....

//
guess we´re quite off-topic here

 

Metalgrid meaning mesh? from limited pictures i have seen it seem like a metal rib structures covered with wire mesh.........the mesh itself didnt strike me as anything fancy. I can see a diamond pattern but i thought that kind of mesh can be bought in hardware shops...

Unless im understanding you wrong.




Last time i was in europe i went to see the Kunsthal in rotterdam and Tate modern in london. Australia is seriously lacking in interesting architecture. not that the tate was particularly fascinating...........nice but not mind blowing

 

Yep that´s the word. Mesh.
the mesh itself is not the fascinating part. it´s the organization of the surface. the mesh was cut into stripes and arranged in the triangular way. Some East European Workers did cut the metal stripes and applicated them. That was probably the worst part of work at the construcion site
Since it´s not the mesh that interests that much I guess you are more into the construction of the sono house. Well that´s indeed not a very special thing it´s just a diagrid.
Once you did produce one yourself you´ll find it´s not a hard thing to do. This diagrid itself is the most easy way to get a construction into something like a freeform.
All you have to watch out for is the surface curvature, if that´s not to extreme in some places you can applicate a diagrid to a freeform in notime. And you can be sure that the construction is strong.

 

Any progress with the FireGL mod? And what are the pro's of converting to FireGL?

 

FireGL should unlock some features in Autocad...........although autocad is converting over to DX.

Supposedly with Open GL optimized programs like MAYA and Rhino 4.0, the Open GL cards will give better performance.


schoko : Does FireGL drivers actually unlock stuff in MAYA and Rhino? Or is it just for faster performance?

 

sorry to disappoint you.
no special features will be unlocked in those programs. the only thing is a hardware rendering support in maya, but thats odd. never made use of that feature.
The "only" thing is you will get faster viewport performance and you´ll be able to open and work on bigger scenes. For Maya this means not only bigger models, but also better performance when "painting" geometry.

 

It would be interesting to see how much faster a FireGL 5600 would be compared to HD 2600 in Open GL programs.

from what i have heard, the difference between Quadro cards and Geforce cards are minimal.

One doesnt hear a lot about fireGL now days. I dont know one laptop that uses them anymore. The Thinkpads use to.........

 

Performancewise probably this will happen :
you´ll get a boost in different CAD-Programs thats between 200 and 300 %

Did do this mod already several times. First one was an Ati 9800XT modded to FirgeGL X2. A X800Xt modded to FireGL, and the last i did was a X1400 mobility.
I mentioned it before, the x1400 mobility(M54) did not have an FireGL Equivalent, meaning there was no Mobility FireGl from Ati.
X1600´s Equivalent was the M56GL ( FireGL V5200).
To get that working i " made" a new Card a M54 Gl. If you are into it it´s not a big deal.
Btw. the modded X9800XT is still running in my desktop, just typing this on it. Performancewise there were even no Problems with playing Games with the modded driver. A few days ago i played the Crysis Demo on that computer ( 1280x1024) , quality settings were low, but i could play the game without any problems.

And another fine thing is if you don´t like to use this feature anymore you just install a normal driver.

 

This is from another forum read the benchmarks and you will see what i´m talkin of :

Code:

tested on xp sp2 x86, cpu e4500, mb 965g-ds3, 2x1 gigs 800mhz, specviweperf 10, test - maya

2600 pro default driver (provided on sapphire retail cd)

Test # Weight () Frames/sec
1 11.00 47.40
2 11.00 24.80
3 11.00 19.10
4 11.00 43.10
5 12.00 42.00
6 11.00 17.80
7 11.00 14.80
8 11.00 14.80
9 11.00 39.30
Weighted Geometric Mean = 26.52

v3600 driver mod (just installed the driver, no aditional setup)

Test # Weight () Frames/sec
1 11.00 51.70
2 11.00 68.00
3 11.00 53.30
4 11.00 92.20
5 12.00 158.00
6 11.00 140.00
7 11.00 84.80
8 11.00 84.80
9 11.00 189.00
Weighted Geometric Mean = 93.47




that's 4 times the result i get with my current setup (8800gts)

and

Code:

specviewperf 10 results for maya-02:

HD2600pro: 31.31
HD2600XT: 32.45
HD2900XT: 29.31

HD2600pro@FireGL: 97.06
HD2600XT@FireGL: 145.67
HD2900XT@FireGL: 194.02

 

Here´s a comparison made by a member of another forum :
The test is only for desktop graphics cards. Of course the mobile cards are a bit slower , due to the clocks the show ( core and mem).

SPECviewperf 10

 

Wow. I will definitely be looking into that. any good sources of information you know off? or modded drivers for download?

 

There is nothing for out the hd2600 mobility yet. amd/ati have not even officaly integrated the hd2600 into their mobility drivers.
I´m looking into this. But this will take some days. Since i cannot use my 8510p ( battery is empty) and i will have to wait till monday to contact HP.
When i´m having either a new complete Unit or a new Ac-adapter i will go on researching this matter.

As for already modded drivers, there is a source in china, but this is only for desktop graphics.
I don´t know if i can post that here, but i could send you a pm.

 

Ya The HP CD works fine but any standard XP CD will need to be slipstreamed.

 

Great. I guess that site will be updated with new drivers as they come out? I'm very keen to try out the new HD 3870 cards. Although i have a feeling with those babies even a normal Radeon drivers will be fast as hell. Be still interesting to test out the different though.

Fantastic. The HP im looking at have vista business preinstalled but also provides you with an XP media disk.

 

I wonder if converting the HD 2600 in the 8510p would let us fix the massive underclocking on HP's part...

 

Sorry to dissappoint you Ackeron, but the driver modification only sets free the opengl capabilities of the card. It will not change any other physical settings of the card.
If you want to speed up the card you´ll have to do it with additional ocing software.
As for now the most ocing softwares for aticards do not yet support the hd series. You might wanna wait for the next releases of att,rivatuner.....

// edit //
seems that new rivatuner 2.06 beta and amd gpu clock seem to be working asides the ati overdrive feature.
//edit//

 

update...

Phew, thats what i hoped for!!
just phoned with HP and it looks like they will send me a whole new notebook. I´m getting some kind of DOA number (death on arrival), and when i have it i can order a new one from HP.

 

thats good news. This is why we pay for business notebooks.

 

Great stuff! I guess I'll wait for more O/C results before I tinker around.

 

another update.....
still i have the old hp 8510p packed and ready to go back to my reseller. nothing happened yet.
the reseller claims he has ordered DHL ( the logistics partner of Deutsche Post) to pick up the package 2 days ago. i´m not so sure he really did that.

but when i contacted my reseller today he told me that HP did realize there are a lot of problems with the ac-smart-adapter for the 8510p.
He said he received an official announcement and he´s waiting for a shipment of new smart adapters ( bug free ) and he will have to replace all the old ac-adapters with the new shipment.
And then he offered me to ship one of these new ac-adapters, instead of exchanging the whole unit.

anybody heard of this ? or is my reseller bull****ting me ? why would he do that ?

 

Do sketchup, archicad, etc. use opengl? If so, with the mod, would they see performance boosts?

 

Thanks for the update!

This only serves to heighten my anticipation and excitement as I prepare to order my own 8510p. HP seems like a great company to do business with, and they really do take care of their customers!

 

Sketch up definitely does, not sure about archicad but im pretty sure it does as well. although archicad isnt very demanding on 3d hardware.

the only DX based 3d software i know of is 3DSmax. It also happens to be one of the best supported softwares so thats good news

 

Demand a new computer....

 

Macpod is absolutely right!

Not only demand it, demand it right now, as in "shipped today", and get a tracking number right away!

 

does 3ds max run faster with opengl than direct3d??

 

no, it will not. it´s way faster with d3d.

 

unless you're running 3dsmax 4 ......when did they switch over to d3d anyway?

I remember max 8 use to ask you if you want to run it in open gl or D3D

cant wait for max 2008 and the realtime rendering preview features. I hope it would be possible to take viewport snapshots instead of having to render it

 

i´m not sure when max became faster with d3d, but i guess it was version 8 that you propose. Haven´t used it for quite some time.

Hope i´m not leaning to far out of the window, but i remember the option to choose between various acceleration modes ( opengl, heidi and d3d) in previous versions of max.

And yes the realtime rendering preview features sound good. I do hope it´s better than maya´s hardware opengl rendering ( which has become better over the years).

For realtime preview rendering it was always the capability of how many lights the gpu is able to render in realtime that interested me the most. My old 9800xt aka firegl x2 was able to do 4 lights in hardware i think.
As an architect i do have to do a lot of complex scenes, especially the interior scenes are the most demanding i do.
For these scenes its quite good to have a preview feature, which lets you decide the strenght and amount of the lights in a scene.

If you ever did do a complex interior scene you´ll know that 4 lights is nothing, when trying to set up a scene for a nice smooth interior rendering.

 

Hey Guys, hope no-one minds me hijacking this thread a bit for my problems with my 8510p.

I've had this laptop for about a week. Generally I am very satisfied with it. There are a few questions about the unit.

Sound:

I've been having issues with the SoundMax HD, especially during dvd playback. There's a lot of stuttering, which also affects playback. I'm assuming it''s a driver issue. I've found some alternative drivers, but windows vista won't let me install them, saying it has determined that the best drivers are already installed. How do I make it do what I want?

I'm still not entirely sure whether vista is worth the trouble. Especially since it takes up so much space. Anyone got a good guide what processes one can shut down to make it a bit leaner?

 

Did you guys have a dummy plastic card to protect the sd card slot?
Mine doesn't have one and I wonder if this is normal.

Dust can easily go in.