The New Mac Pro vs. The Envy

Well, they've both been upgraded, and now it looks like Mac is offering faster processors. How would you rate these notebooks now? I have always favored the Pro's esthetic, keyboard and trackpad, but the ports, blu-ray, memory, storage options and user-friendly fixes (you can more easily disassemble and work on your own damned notebook) make me lean toward Envy. But the Pro, which I am currently typing on, is a sexy beast that claims to be twice as fast as the last generation. I am sure that's all theoretical, though.

 

Once the Envy line gets refreshed, they'll probably out-perform or at least match the new Pros.

 

They offer the same 2nd generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2820QM in the 17" models. On top of that the Envy has a better GPU. Plus you wont have to shell out another 100 bucks for a real OS

 

Where exactly is the MacBook Pro better than the Envy??
Even last years Envy line outperforms the new MacBooks in every possible way.

I do not even see what is the point of this thread.

 

Have you seen the latest refresh?

As of now, the MBP 15 outperforms the e14 and is very, very close to the e17

 

I thought the comparison everyone makes in every other thread and article known to man -- the one between the Envy and its inspiration -- might be more interesting and perhaps more sensible now that the Pro has been upgraded with better processors, graphics and Thunderbolt. I did not take for granted that everyone's opinion would not budge in degree or outcome or that they would align with any one person's, including mine; otherwise, I would not have solicited them. Nothing more or less obscene than that.

 

IMO, the refresh is a nice step forward. It would've made my decision to get E17 harder, although I am sure the price and features such as blu-ray, HDMI, USB 3.0 and retention of my Windows programs would've led me right to where I am now. I think USB 3 is more practical than Thunderbolt.

 

It outperforms the envy 14, but the envy 17 is a totally other level of performance.
6750M - 480 shaders
6850M - 800 shaders

 

New ENVY's GPU will eat the one found in the MBP, hands down. Also the MBP does not have space for 2nd HDD, as well as having a smaller choice of ports.

The only area where the MBP will win is most probably battery life. It is also slightly more portable (3kg vs 3.4kg), slightly better speakers, touchpad?? and slightly better screen.

I compared the older model with my current ENVY and these are my observations. Maybe the SB ENVY will improve on some of the things listed. Slightly better in some areas the MBP, however costs much more.

 

For some reason I thought we were comparing Envy 17 with MacBook 17. This is why my respond was that flat.

My bad.

 

The battery life is what I most envy about MBP. I've purchased an extended-life battery, but I still almost never dare use my computer without plugging it in.

The second hard drive in the Envy 17 is certainly a nice luxury, but given the capacity of today's hard drives, it's not a necessity for me. I would have put a 1TB hard drive into my MBP if I had bought it. Some folks are swapping out their optical drives, like the Envy 14 folks, to add a second HD. I still like having a built-in optical drive.

I do like the MBP keyboard better. I find it easier to type on, less prone to error and better at keeping out dust and (potentially) liquids. The touch pad is hands down better, IMO. Build quality looks better and feels sturdier because it's largely one hunk of metal, so that goes without saying. But they dent and bend with the best of them.

The screen difference is negligible, IMO. But MPB's screen did seem slightly brighter than my regular Envy 17 screen. They say the 17 3D screen is even brighter than the original, so I'd have to wonder if that would still be true.

Have the MPBs run into heating problems after going quad core?

The price is still too damn high.

 

Envy should have the better speakers, or at least compared to the MBP 13/15 last generation.
Display wise, I would say the Envy would fair equal, or will go either way.
MBP has a better touch pad, but it truly isn't day and night.

Some people say the new MBP does not over heat but I suspect they are not using it for much.

 

I hate Apple with a passion, but after playing with two Envy 14's I have to say HP still has some work to do to catch up with the quality Apple offers in the Macbook Pro.

 

Apple still need to lower their prices by around 30% before I'll ever consider bying from them.

 

I would prefer a traditional touch pad to either, and even I have to say the MBP track pad does a much better job of functioning as it is supposed to without any user-generated software or other tweaks. I suspect you're probably right on the heat issue, though.

 

Agreed. But if I were to buy a computer purely for looks, MBP. That's the only way. I really like the looks of the MBP-inspired Envy and have received quite a few compliments for it, but to this day, I think MBP looks better.

 

Agreed, but they won't because they now have enough "cred" with Apple fans and casual computer users not as interested in specs to justify the higher prices.

Anyway, my thoughts are:

1. Let's wait to see this year's iteration of Envy before comparing.
2. Screen quality between Radiance and MBP = push. I like the aspect ratio and size of MBP > Envy, but I like the contrast and vibrance of Envy over MBP
3. Specs...Envy wins in bang for buck.
4. Looks = a push. I still love the unibody design, but I like the color scheme of the Envy over MBP. This is subjective though, and dependent on the user. Both machines look great
6. Battery life = this is the biggest black mark for the Envy line. I don't have to have MBP battery life (although it would be nice), but my old Latitude E6400 performed better at battery life at full power.

 

Do you guys think there will be an update on the beats line as well?

As much as I love the HP Envy 14, I 'hate' the color since it's too similar to the MBPs.

In terms of performance/price, Envy will win hands down.
Hopefully the refresh includes better battery and a better trackpad that possibly integrate Mac-ish multitouch?

 

Its premature to compare the Envy 14 to the new MacBook Pro since one is newer than the other.

You have to at least wait for the refresh to make an accurate decision. Although the Current Envy 14 with Radiance does come close to the MBP.

 

The battery life in even the dual core SB MBPs are down by almost 30% in the SB/2011 MBPs vs. the 2010s. No one knows why, as SB has proven to be 50-100% more power efficient than Arrandale in early tests.

Can't imagine that MBPs won't have heating problems with quad cores since they had such problems with even dual cores. You cannot game with them on your lap without jepopardizing the health of your future generations, lol.

Of all the refreshes they've done on MBP 15-17s, this 2011 one seems the least worthy of upgrading to in recent memory, with the possible exception of the 2010 MBP 13, which of course is the best refrsesh for 2011, ie, the 13, largely because it had so far to go to cacth up; Did a pretty nice job but then left ALL the gfx to the Intel HD 3000 for reasons known only to Apple, but may have something to do with the "divorce" with nVidia an lack of an appropriate switchable ATI option.

All in all, I'd give ths MBP refresh a C+, which is really bad for Apple. HP has the opportunity to hit this one out of the park - especially with nothing yet revealed about the 14, but recent peformance (ie, Radiance fiasco) suggests HP will once again, not "fail to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity!" They are just scared to death to go truly premium, or so it seems.

 

Despite what Job's said about this being a POST PC era and how it's about the "experience" and not the hardware, Apple has, for perhaps the first time, thrown in most of the latest hardware into their Macbook Pro line, and in some cases, before PC manufacturers were able to do it.

Apple's got it going on with their Macbook Pro line now. They are in most cases equal to or better in just about every category when comparing to PC notebooks.

And their battery life is about double what most PC notebook owners can expect when running OS X (When running Windows 7 on a mac, Battery life drops to about what you'd expect on a PC notebook. Apple has invested a LOT of money into power management for OS X).

Add to this the fact that a STANDARD USER (note: probably none of us here fall into this category) can get start-to-finish tech support by simply walking into their local apple store (and I mean start to finish, starting with the software and ending with hardware, something you can't get from PC manufacturers because the O.S. is produced by one company, the hardware by another, etc.) and Apple is going to see another year of growth in their notebook user base.

 

I would of considered one if the 15in with decent specs didnt start at $2100.

 

Yep, That will always be a factor. But the way Apple sees it, you're buying not only a product, but an experience.

And more and more people are buying into that experience every day, especially since the PC hardware manufacturers just can't keep up anymore. Apple leads, HP, Dell, etc. They all follow.

 

Apple changed the way they test battery life to provide more accurate battery life estimates. The battery life estimates involve visiting 25 websites over the course of several hours, sending email, watching a bit of video, etc. instead of just sticking it in a room and leaving it powered on until the battery drains.

 

My apologies but leads what? Also don't forget Apple loves to follow too, like stealing innovations from other companies.

 

Don't they all?

 

Design would be #1.

Technologies like their Magsafe Adapter that they have patented and no longer even mention as a feature.

and their touchpad.

All the PC notebooks with the larger touchpads? That's the PC manufacturers trying to catch up to Apple.

The Envy came about as a direct response to Apple's unibody all aluminum design of the Macbook Pro.

 

Ah yes the mag safe adapter, perhaps the only feature other PC's have yet to implement then again it really isn't that important. If you MBP falls with the lid open while your using it chances are the DC jack is the last thing you will need to worry about, your LCD however will surely be a victim. The magsafe adapter is a nice touch, but truly unnecessary since no DC jack is so held in place that it will snap off a dc jack if it is pulled.

Larger touch pads came in previous PC's, Edge to Edge glass previous PC's, LED backlight previous PC's, Ambient Light sensor same. Island keyboard, Apple is late. Backlit keyboard, late. Metal chassis, late (several business HP laptops came in almost all metal flavors, minus abs plastics for the palm rest to prevent annoying heat. Personally The HP Voodoo Envy did far better using a carbon fiber, lighter and keeping good durability.

Unibody aluminum? Perhaps it can be called that but it is nothing amazing it is just a cut out aluminum piece that goes on top of the notebook and holds all components, plenty of notebooks utilize a similar function using a metal skeleton chassis. Not particularly a good idea since dents=you need to replace the whole, any bends in the chassis and you get issues such as a superdrive clicking, etc.

The Envy did come in direct response to it, that is pretty evident.

Anything else?

 

I bought a top spec everything including radiance envy 14 in jan for $1444.24 (with a $200 discount). How can you compare something that is twice the price. For those that are saying it is a little better it is still twice the price.

 

And yet, if only the price were less, more people would buy them, hmmm?

And what is your response to the extended battery life that only a Macbook seems capable of?

 

and they don't get viruses hahahahahaha

 

yes it true, but remember you cant just buy a new battery so in 2 years or more when you battery starts to noticbly degrade what do you do, another 300 bucks to send it to apple get a new one plus get an apple certified technition to install it.

and yes every body lives macs but there over priced! there lower end is 200 -300 bucks over priced while their high end ones are even more

 

Oh man. Don't get me started on how hard it was to open my Envy 3D. Compared to my MBP - it took twice as long.

Interested to see how well coolsense works on the new SB Envy's. My old one ran at 93C+.

 

Come on now, I bought the real Top spec everything ENVY 14 with Radiance, Slice, 8GB Memory and 256GB SSD and it hit a shade bellow $2200. Now that's still about $1000 less than an equally equipped Pro ($3,349.00) but the new Macs are quad core boxes and still beat the ENVY on the Battery Life.

HP just needs to stop playing around and give the people what they want. Since the Radiance is dead, give us a 14" Envy with a 1080P IPS display and throw the slice in the box as a standard component.

HP's never going to see Pro like Battery life, because HP would have to standardize on a select group of Manufactures for components and strip the Windows Kernel bare with tons of optimization to even get close. That's not economically important to them; that's why I say, throw the slice in the box as part of the standard issue, remove the optical drive and make it thinner and prettier.

 

The difference in our specs is (besides mine having the i5-580 and yours an i5-450) i got the 640hdd and you got an $800 256g ssd? Maybe they were more expensive when you got yours.

No one knows for sure that the radiance is dead they just aren't offering it at the moment. The last radiance screens they released were not the same as the original (i've had both for over a month) so i think it was a test run to see how the new design worked and maybe use them in a refresh. Why else make a small amount of screens that are slightly different.

4-5 hours is enough battery for me and if it ever isn't i put my slice on and i have 7 so i don't think the battery gap is night and day.

 

Funny you should mention the Radiance screen being no more. HP just reposted the engadget review of the Envy 14, and specifically mentioned the radiance screen in their tweet. (they posted it to twitter)

I was a little disgusted with HP for doing that, honestly.

 

Regarding performance as of right now:

MBP 15'' beats Envy 14....... well Envy 14 isn't even updated yet

MBP 17'' beats Envy 17........ again not updated yet

(ignoring price since prices are going to skyrocket once SSD's come into play)

 

The Envy 17 3d is refreshed.

I just purchased one today for about 1k off the price of a MBP 17 similarly spec'ed but I get more for less. It has the important things like a real OS in Windows 7, Blue Ray, USB 3.0, AMD 6850 vs AMD 6750, i7 2820QM, top notch 120Hhz 17" 3D screen, 8GB ram, 640 GB 7200rmp HD, and 3 years Service Warranty.

Thunderbolt sounds fine but right now it is totally irrelevant and I'd bet in a year when Intel rolls out the real "Lightpeak" that uses fiber optics the old coper wire "Thunderbolt" users will be left literally in the dark. I mean i guess it has a display port functionality as well which some monitors support.

Its really hard to justify 1k for a few hours of battery life imho. Reallly hard.

 

correct me if i am wrong, but i found through research that Apple has patents on their magsafe and magnetic tip charging idea. i would love hp or even PC manufactures to incorporate this but doesnt Apple's early patent of this technology prevent that until the patent expires or something?

 

Envy 14+slice battery=extended battery life+more performance that a macbook is not capable of. Add in additional batteries you can carry, and you are easily talking days on end without seeing the wall. Do the same on your MBP, oh wait you cant (well you could, you'd just look really sillly opening your MBP to swap out the battery).

Hell my previous Latitude E6500 with undervolting was capable of 5 hours on a 9 cell battery. Easily have done 8-9 hours using the slice battery available for that model.

Or the Fujitsu my sister is using (12"~ I will get the model laters, it is one of their more expensive business offerings), 2x batteries. Did over 4 hours of pure webcam with our family in mexico+another 3 hours of web browsing etc (full brightness), iirc battery life was at 30%~. Touch enabled etc.

I could go on to list even more power energy saving models, from my understanding there is one or two thinkpad models with stupidly high battery life (over 10 hours).

Anyways we will see what other manufacturers offer once they start rolling out Sandy Bridge. Chances are battery life will be similar, with performance being higher on the other manufacturer's side.

Nope. They can do what they wish in terms of patent ideas, however that idea must be incredibly specific and with minute changes can be copied legally. (Won't stop Apple from filing lawsuit, and of course loosing. Unless of course Apple is targeting some small time company.) You can't just file a patent saying "I use magnets in the tips of my charger, no one else may."
I can patent a ruler that folds 29 times, however I must say exactly where it folds, and how much space between each joint. Otherwise it is denied.

The reason other manufacturers don't use them is because those features are truly useless. Think about it, what is the use of the magsafe adapter.
When your laptop falls=the AC doesn't "yank" the DC jack, however is the DC jack truly your main consideration when a MBP with that thin of a LCD cover falls?
The only upside is when someone trips over the AC adapter, which tbh I haven't seen significant damage come from that. My business repairs or replaces DC jacks as part of one of our many services, we have yet to hear someone say "someone yanked my ac adapter and it broke the DC jack". We mostly hear "someone stepped on the tip while it plugged in" or other things such as wear tear over years (MBP's are also prone to this).

 

Panny toughbook CF-31 that gives 12 hours of battery with a 1000 nit screen on max all day?

or the new refresh of the thinkpad that gives 15 hrs on a 6 cell ( reviews sofar show only 14, 12.75 with wwan enabled ) and 23 hours with the slice battery?

Lenovo posts ThinkPad X220 specs online, includes IPS display, SSD, and 23-hour battery options -- Engadget

even as a Mac owner im very un-awed by the tech going into them. the whole machine is now sold on merit of pretty and touchpad. it lacks badly for anyone doing professional work, uses their laptops hard or does all their reasearch.

 

Ty I was waiting for that. Their previous x200 iirc did 14 hours.

 

yep, i have on occasion squeezed a little more out of an X200, the 201 not as much

 

Ladies and gentlemen, this man is right for the most part. As long as Microsoft designs the OS for a mass market rather than a handful of hardware configurations, the Envy will always be a step behind the Macbook Pro in battery life. I could do without the optical drive too and thinner is always sexier...on notebooks I mean, not necessarily always with ladies!

However, if I have to stick with lower battery life, if this still means I can snap up an Envy for hundreds of dollars less, get top-notch gaming specs, AND get a high-resolution display, SIGN ME UP!

 

Well it seems ironic to me that, even if with the best possible spec Envy 14 is more than $1000 cheaper, it comes down to battery life in the end. I expect much more than that.

To be honest, ultra-thin laptops have a similar battery life, and I am sure this is not because whichever companies make Windows laptops are not capable of putting some good batteries (well my guess is priority issues).

And one more thing (as some of you seem to be fond of this phrase), i7 620M barely outdoes other mobile processors. Yes it does better than 580M, but the difference is too subtle and I am more than sure you will never be able to feel it.

My opinion? If I had money I'd go for Vaio Z, not a Macbook..

 

Umm no...

Why not spend an extra $100 and get 2 extra batteries and then you have 12 hours of battery life (I know its such a hassle to take the ten seconds at most to switch batteries) then you have $800 to spend on gas, rent, mortgage, ect...

 

Hmmmm. Here's to hoping we get an announcement on an E14 refresh soon.

 

It does, through the years pc manufacturers have played with different variations but none of them have been successful.

 

Uh No? Patents are written to be as vague as possible to cover as much as possible. If you look at the magsafe patent that Apple has, there's no way in hell anyone can copy it and get away with it.

 

Vague patents are often nulled void, or denied. Although anyone can put in a patent (thus patent pending/somewhat protected), whether they are accepted or not is a different situation.
I dont think many have read the patent for the magsafe adapter. Most people read the abstract. I won't even dig up the magsafe "patent" but I can assure you it has be detailed designed.

I can assure you a magnetic break away power adapter is possible, just not understandable why. Few times it would be needed, the DC jack would be the least of the worries.