Waiting for Envy 17 3D SB thread

rumor roundup 2/2

I havent seen anything that adds or takes away from the "end of Feb" availabillity rumors, save perhaps for the SATA disease recently announced by Intel. Optimism on the NBR expressed by several suggests that HP will still allow on-line orders by end of month, but that the delivery date may be pushed out due to raw materials shortages. other speculation is around the way HP will handle warranty for any notebooks already built with the affected chipsets, but the available information is not substantial enough at this point. Something else that is not clear is the extent to which the SATA disease will affect physical inventories and availability in B&M stores.


Busted/irrelavent/old rumors listed for your entertainment, but in gray font. Here's the list:

credible: the information makes sense and the source appears credible
plausible: emerging information that may strengthen in credibility over time
not credible: the information is inconsistent, no references have been cited, and/or the source has not demonstrated credibility
busted: The weight of evidence indicates that the information is false


dlleno and Kill Joe have suggested, based on the strength of facebook comments by Molly Athp, those coming from the HP Sales call center, and based on how the Dv7t-quad was introduced, that we should hear from HP on or before 2/15 and that products could be available in some U.S. retail stores by the following weekend and available for online order by January 20. status=credible

timcfox reports that a sales rep has scheduled a purchase callback for February 27, which implies that the SB Envy introduction could occur over that weekend instead. status=plausible

several NBR members have speculated that the SATA disease will not affect the ability to order a SB Envy by end of february, but that delivery may be pushed out. status=credible

NBR member husky55 reports from the dv7-quad forum that, on the strength of HP reps' comments on the HP forums, that HP "will announce very shortly their policy re the Intel SB design flaw, possibly today. I thought it would be entertaining to track this as well, to the extent that we believe this might reveal related info about the SB Envy. status=credible

NBR member andyguk has learned from the HP Store UK that they do not expect an SB refresh "within the coming weeks or months". and also mentioned that the U.S market is "more advanced in trialing newer products". The implication here is that some countries may lag the U.S. in new product intros and that the non-US countries may in fact be later than February. status = credible


an unknown source on NBR postulated that HP would make an announcement on January 24 and even promised to order a Dell if there was no HP announcement by this date. This date seemed to catch popularity but has no basis other than someone's opinion. status=busted

jeff5886 joined the forums to tell us that he has a friend who is an HP sales rep -- who tells of an HP internal sales team conference call on Thursday January 20 8pm (no time zone given), and promises to give Jeff5886 any new information. status: busted.

 

Hmm, this delay also has me thinking: since I'm not in a need-to-buy situation, I might as well wait and see what AMD's Bulldozer brings to the table.

I'm also hoping the new ones will have the new Clickpad IS Series 3 touchpad. Does anyone have any specific indications for or against that?

 

I've never had some much trouble spending money - first an Envy 17 3D that I returned to wait for an Envy 17 3D SB. Then while waiting, I get an Alienware M17xR3 w/3D. Now, I'm going to be sending the M17xR3 back due to the Intel recall issue.

 

I'm still optimistic -- Intel is acting fast on this one, and over the next three weeks (until rumored SB Envy release announcement) a LOT of information will be known. During this time, HP will probably reveal many things:

1. the warranty approach to existing Pavilions in the field should be known, if different from the refund thing already announced.
2. The hold on existing Sandy Bridge DVx-quads may either be lifted or announced to be lifted, which should reveal some information about "fixed" chipset availability
3. The effects on the SB Envy release should also be known, at least with some confidence.


alot of information came in today which makes the rumor roundup already innacurate. I'll give it another day or so and update

 

Yeah I know, been following your "misadventures" in laptop land....lol, sorry. Anyway, as a side note, how did you like the Alienware M17xR3 as compared to the Envy 17 3D? I'm really curious to know since I once considered getting the Alienware R3.....


KJ

 

I am really interest as well comparing Alienware and the HP. mainly the 3D effect. which one does a better job on 3D?

 

Not sure if any of you guys noticed but the "splash" page that had the newer line up of Envy 17 and 3D as "Reserve Now" is no longer. It was here (and was posted on another page of this thread too):

HP® Official Store —Buy HP Laptops, Notebook PCs, Printers, Desktop Computers, Handhelds, Scanners, Monitors, and Calculators direct from HP

Not sure if it means anything, or maybe they took it down because it was almost unecessary (couldn't "reserve" a damn thing), plus since the DV-7 and the like has over a month estimated build date (and who knows if that's even correct) they probably figured why bother having the splash page.

 

Circus HP goes on and on.

 

Does anyone know if AMD is likely to have the same issues as NVIDIA regarding 120Hz 3D and switchable graphics. Optimus uses the Intel IGP display controller at all times (even when using the 460M) and the IGP does not support 120Hz. The AMD 6xxx series has dual multiplexers so is it likely that it will be able to use it's own display controller when the IGP is not in use?

If so the new SB Envy 3D is looking promising as it will be the only 3D laptop with switchable graphics.

 

just in case you haven't seen it, HP has a Sandy Bridge Envy 17 teaser page up here. Alas, there's no new information, and the links to additional information all go to "old" (today's) information. the full press release from January 4 is exposed here as well, in the news tab.

So far we know nothing about the release, or the impact of the Intel SATA disease...

 

Hmmm nothing about switchable graphics on the Envy 17 3D teaser page.

 

yea, but you can read about the switchable graphics in the full press release by going to the "news" tab. or read the pdf directly here

Here's the juicy part about switchable graphics and WiDi --

"...AMD switchable graphics technology dynmically alternates between integrated graphics and AMD Radeon HD 6850 discrete graphics for enhanced performance and battery life. Coupled with future second-generation Intel Core processors, the HP ENVY 17 is the ultimate multimedia machine, sharing content wirelessly from the notebook PC to TVs and other screens using Intel Wireless Display technology."

yay

 

Yeah but that is referencing the non-3D Envy 17. If you follow your previous link to the flash product catalogue you will notice that on the new SB Envy 17 is does mention switchable graphics. However on the SB Envy 17 3D it does not.

 

oh right, i see where you're coming from; I went right over the "3D" mention in your post so fast I didn't catch it. Indeed it appears that Sandy Bridge itself supports 3D but no word from HP as to whether or not they will support it -- is that your question?

has it been confirmed that the mobile SB processors will support 3D?

 

Since none of us have anything better to do...

Not sure if this is what some of you may be contemplating, but maybe as a more comprehensive question posed...

Already grasping the basic understanding of price, cosmetic, specs and brand loyalty, if money is not a factor, what would any of you give as an opinion to someone trying to decide between the Alienware x17 R3 (both 3D and non considered) and the Envy 17 (both 3D and non considered)? Taking in consideration that this fictitious person would be using it for games, graphic design, music DJ programs, blu-ray movies/HD content in general etc.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...

 

Well, this is an Envy thread, so keep that in mind... but having said that -- because Dell has created the most specialized, in-your-face theme-dominated package in the Alienware, imho the fictious person should start there .This singular characteristic separates the two in such dramatic fashion that it becomes more important than even the specs for more than a few of those fictious people

 

Good point, they are drastically different, with the main attribute being cosmetic. One wants to look like some futuristic alien mainframe, while the other wants to look like a MacBook (I don't like Apple products but have to admit some look nice). I tend to gravitate toward (functional) nice looking but not so "in your face" tech. Not sure it would do anyone any good who would be taking said laptop out and about when it's screaming "STEAL ME" by looking so extravagant (Alienware).

And yes, I am trying to be conscious of the title of the thread, and didn't want to get too far from the subject at hand which is...WHEN WILL THE SB ENVY 17 BE RELEASED! I think I'm going with the newer Envy, just wanted this comparison discussion to squash any ideas of defection

 

Wello, the thing is, Alienware puts a label on its owner that not all are willing to identify with. At least to me, it screams "I live in a virtual world of science fiction, war and gore because I'd rather not face reality".

But you are raising an interesting point, given the Envy 17's late introduction. I just don't see the alienware as a viable alternative at this time, for the reasons above, but I'm not a hard core gamer. If I were, and I really did live in that virtual world, I think I'd be tempted to defect, on account of the merge of the themed package with the technical specs . To be honest I'm surprised that the Envy doesn't compete in the serious gaming arena, for example with the baddest graphics card known to man (as an option), and room for 16 GB RAM. What is preventing HP from doing that?

Maybe its a cooling issue. if they can give themselves more thermal headroom, perhaps those two things will come, either this time or on the next release. HP is clearly targeting the entertainment market segment and not the gamers, but entertainment and gaming appear to be converging in technical needs. In my opinion, the Base Envy needs to be for movies, but they need customizable options to turn it into a serious gaming laptop

 

I agree on all fronts, though if I were at least 10-15 years younger I might have thought more than twice about it. When I first looked at Alienware, some of it was splash, but I just really wanted a laptop with good specs and a solid build, and the theatrics almost seemed to be a distraction after a while when looking at pictures. So if I were to get it, it would be similar to getting a Lamborghini just to get to work and back reliably.

The Envy has very clean lines not so over the top, has features that I would use instead of being distracted by, and is backed by what I find to be a great warranty from HP (have had HP Laptop issues that they took care of with great satisfaction). And you're right to ask why doesn't HP have the absolute latest and greatest Graphics and RAM to back up everything else? For one I think the price point would not be cost effective for the "niche" market the 6 1/2 gamers *might* have the money for. Maybe there just hasn't been the demand brought forth to HP marketing to convince them that manufacturing a laptop of that magnitude would be in their best interest. Or it could just be that they are more interested in competing with Apple for market share than they are with the rest of the awe inspiring gaming rigs out there. Either way, the Envy line is almost always topping in specs and design in comparison to most other laptops. Like I said...most.

Go with what you know? Sure. Go with what is not broken in the first place? Absolutely. But the kid in me sure likes the aesthetics of Alienware, for like 10 seconds until I switch back to reality...

 

Still waiting patiently.....

I'm also waiting for an HP rep to call me back regarding this special situation I've got going on with them....

 

Ha, you think you can just come on here and tease us like that?
TheAtreidesHawk, spill the beans! What kind of situation you have with HP? I do hope its in your favor.

KJ

 

KJ,

I'm still working any contacts I can find for my E14 situation; if I find one with any juice, I'll pass it along. Would appreciate the same.

 

Of course, and I've done so in the past when someone here posted about selling thier Envy 14 radiance, I mentioned your user name. I can't imagine this situation going on for much longer. Some good resolution has to be at hand.


KJ

 

I just returned my M17xR3 with the NVidia 3D option. Having played with both 3D laptops, I feel that neither of these laptops are good for gaming in 3D due to low framerates in the native resolution. I would give the performance edge to the M17xR3 if you really plan on gaming in 3D but the Envy's screen is better for watching 3D movies due to higher brightness.

The biggest reason to get a M17xR3 is cooling. The keyboard/wrist area never heated up; the fan was fairly quiet and the laptop did NOT require propping up like we had to do with the Envy 17 to get better airflow.

That said, HP still has a chance to win back my business now that my M17xR3 has been sent back to Dell for the Intel chipset issue. The battery life would have to be comparable (5+ hours), the cooling issue must be resolved, and the GPU would have to be equal or better than a normally clocked 6870.

 

Or more thing...

Although I really like the form factor of the Envy 17, I really think HP will need to increase the size in order for it to be comparable to the M17xR3. The reason is after opening the M17xR3 to analyze how it stays cool, it is clear there isn't enough room in the Envy 17 to accomplish the proper cooling.

The CPU and GPU absolutely can not share an exhaust fan and fins. This is especially true in Sandy Bridge when 80% of the time you might be running with the integrated GPU. If that's the case you don't want to be heating up the discrete GPU for no reason. Likewise, while gaming, you don't want to be heating up the CPU with the GPU.

The second reason it will be difficult to get the equivalent cooling in the existing form factor is that in the M17xR3, the fans are placed directly below the keyboard and actually draw air from the keyboard to exhaust out the back. This actually cools the keyboard and is probably the reason why you can't feel any heat from the keyboard.

 

I would think it best to wait for the M18x and hopefully you will be able to play 3D games well since it will be dual GPU. I would love that kind of laptop just for gaming, but I'd keep in at home! LMFAO! I would not be caught dead with that beast in public, now the Envy, that is like a piece of art you want to show, as you are proud of it. I would like to have both.....

KJ

 

Quite frankly, if you were going for both a m18x and the E17 3D, I rather buy the Envy and brag the public with it and then save the money that you would get an m18x and build a hyperdrive-powered gaming desktop rig!

 

oh but then you couldn't show off your laptop at gaming parties

 

New DV7 available this sprint (probably next month) in sexy black color with a lot of Envy 17th Elements!!

Full story at engadget.com



Also update on Intel Sandy Bridge shipments.
Mid-February is the date and it is confirmed

 

However, the DV 7 doesn't pack the performance package the Envy 17 does, most notably the 3D stuff where the people here want so badly.

 

looks like a press release highlighing the return of the present-day Sandy Bridge DV7 for March. Thats still consistent with NBR rumors that the SB Envy 17 will have similar availability.

great news. I'd say we're still on for customizable orders placed by Feb 21 or 28, with availabilty well into March or perhaps April.

 

Just wished it came in 3D eh?

 

Personally I do not care for the 3D.
The regular Envy 17 had pretty awesome display.

The 3D display is even better due to the 120Hz refresh rate.

If I can get the DV7 with ATI 6850, 1080p monitor, BluRay burner and finder print reader all in this dark color (and a lot cheaper price), I will easily give up waiting for the Envy 17 3D SB.

 

HP's Pavilion dv6 and dv7 get Envy-like features, g-series loses the bargain basement looks -- Engadget

This is certainly the best news I've read in this thread in over 2 weeks.
Finally some progress towards my dream laptop. Patience now Jon...patience. And props to n-MIK3 above that posted the following link:
Fixed Intel chip to ship in mid-February | Nanotech - The Circuits Blog - CNET News

But honestly, from a technical standpoint it appears the DV7 and Envy17 will be pretty similar, both will have second gen i7's, both will have 6000 series GFX cards. Those are the two main components that 'make' the laptop.

I currently have a year old dv7 and it's fantastic, great performance for gaming and it's only got a ATI 4650M chip.

 

1080p is possible, I don't think so on the 6850M. If they gave the 6850M to the DV7, that will threaten the Envy 17's position and HP by experience, never goes top-grade on the GPU. They are always one slot below the rest of the competition in their lineup (i.e. 5850 instead of 5870 or 5650 instead of 5730).

 

While the Dv7-Envy 17 gap narrows, it will be interesting to see how HP differentiates the Envy in both features, packaging, and price.


... I wonder if the new DV7 will have a 72% gamut display (I doubt it)

 

I just want the 1080p resolution and a decent graphics card for games like Starcraft 2 to run smoothly and with little heat.

If that happens then I'll be more inclined to go for the dv7 rather than the Envy.

One quick question if I were to do a clean install of Windows 7...that means I'd have to go to HP's website to download Media Center for bluray playback correct? Windows 7 doesn't support Bluray right out the box?

 

Well we know it will get coolsense, metal finish, USB3.0, and Beats audio, and 6000M graphics but the press release implies that there won't be 1080p or a 72% gamut display (note that HP's "HD" displays are still only 1600x900 pixels . The "FHD" displays (reserved for the Envy) have 1080 pixels vertically. Moreover, the press relsease mentiones only 6000M graphics (Envy 17 will get 6850). so in my view the big Envy differentiator is going to be the display and graphics card, HMDI 1.4 and maybe even Widi. The press release doesn't mention switchable graphics on the DV7 either, but that would be a surprising omission if HP chose not to support it on that platform.

The display especially and GP are big cost items, so I don't expect to see 1080p on the DV

 

yes I believe you're right on that. But you'll also be missing HP thermal assistant/coolsense, and HP protectSmart HDD protection as well, and the latest drivers from HP, perhaps some other HP tools that might be useful. I'm wondering if a good alternative to the fresh win7 install might be to;

1. go through the setup right out of the box.
2. delete norton and add virus protection (AVG for me I've never liked the pre-installed Norton)
3. delete other bloatware
4. download/configure latest drivers
5. Tune BIOS as needed
6. set the restore point
7. back up /users/<you>
8. make a DVD restorable image

 

Just heard the news myself about the DV7s...wow I could save some cash....but again, as you posted above. those highlighted issues....I need that in my new laptop...the HDMI 1.4, Widi, strong enough GPU, and top screen resolution at least 1920x1080p. Guess we'll have to stay tuned. I can't believe I am even considering defecting! LOL...not sure yet what will happen.... guess HP threw a wrench into the mix. Interesting....hmmm.

P.S. Since the DV7 and DV6 are now delayed for Spring, wonder if that will also mean the Envy line will be delayed...


KJ

 

I gotta admit Killa Joe I was getting attracted to the DV7 as well, but when I looked at the real the Envy differentiators that still remain I realized there was no wrench after all. Similar to your comments: For me its all about the display -- 1080p full HD and 72% color gamut. Thats a spendy LED panel and its only available on the Envy, where they pair it up with a GP that is capable of taking full advantage of it. I seriously doubt we will see that on the DV series due to the cost, and the fact that folks like me are willing to pay more for that kind of capabillty. I guess that means I'm still not really in the target DV market - and suspect you aren't either

As for the SB Envy availability: My read is still that it will be still be available to order this month, with first shipments before the newest DV7 just announced. I say that because in order for HP to announce the DV refresh on Feb 8 means that it was already in the pipeline many weeks ago, with a target ship date already set. To me this means HP has planned all along to do thigs in this order (1) introduce Sandy Bridge into the DV series, (2) introduce Sandy Bridge and other coolness into the Envy, and then (3) add other coolness to the DV. I'd suggest that the SATA disease affected (1) above the most, (2) not as much and (3) just a little, if anything. just my opinion of course.

the products are still differentiated, but it does suggest an interesting possibility that HP will then follow with yet another Envy refresh in the Summer--perhaps to further differentiate it from the DVs with such goodies as 16GB 1600 MHz RAM, a larger SDD, even a stronger GP for the 3D flavor perhaps... stuff like that. And thats assuming no processor updates from Intel like additional cores, better core management, or other happiness. of course, this is all dreaming and speculation

 

Well, if HP would like to put in a stronger GPU in the Envy line in the future, I'm all for that! As you might be aware my intentions were to own the SB edition of the Envy 17 3D and later get the Alienware or similar hardware like the M18x that is sometime in the future with Crossfire GPU's and would have to be 3D capabale.... but yea, I would rather buy that kind of power from HP, given design, warranty, etc....

So for now, if the DV7s are really lacking in those specs mentioned, then I will go for the new Envy 17 3D, enjoy it fully, and see what the future brings to HP..... I would love HP to keep me away from the Alien if at all possible! LOL


KJ

 

I hear you KJ. I'm not a gamer but I see a market segment that the Envy is not reaching, here -- in order for HP to deliver an unabashedly serious gaming laptop, the beast would have to grow beyond Today's Envy proportions, in my opinion, and might not even be an Envy at all unless its an Envy Xtreme or somethin more creative. It would proably have two fans, room to separate the GP from the processor; stuff like that.

Seems like this would be a new product for HP. I'm not sure what happened to voodoo, but it appears that it's influence is either gone or unrecognizably blended into today's Envy.

 

I know I've asked in the past about HP and Gamers, it was a thread I made since I love to game, but I'm not "just" a gamer. I need a classy looking, clean laptop for work,...but when I get down and play, I want to PLAY!

Anyway, members on that thread did make a point stating that HP is probably not going the gamer route due to various issues which would most likely arise, such as heat....then one must consider design....with 2 GPU, fans, it would be a beast/monster like the Alienware...so....perhaps, in the future..not sure how much in the future, but once chips get even smaller and GPUs will be much smaller, cooler, etc..then I see no reason why HP would not approach the gamer marker.

I'm not holding my brearth either way. I've made a 99% decision to get the SB Envy 17 3D, unless the news about the DV7 change....

Sure, I don't want to have 2 laptops one for work, one for gaming, its not the best solution for me, plust the extra expense...etc... My hopes are that I will be thoughly happy with the Envy's performance that I would not mind bringing the gaming options down a few nothes, which I've done with the regular Envy 17 3D.... although some games don't play well on 3D with high specs..so you have to lower the settings, and even then.....

Anyway, sorry, I digress.....I just want to have this laptop already.


KJ

 

I know you are just speculating but would they really do a Envy summer refresh? Or would that refresh more likely occur in the Fall?? That refresh sounds interesting and to add to it the synaptic ClickPad IS Series 3 and a second USB 3.0 port would be nice. (I am seeing notebooks with 2 USB 3.0 ports now though I don’t expect very many especially lower end models).

I don’t keep up with how many times they refresh during the year what is the history/pattern on that?

I’m sure though they do one during the Fall (like late September or October) though for the holidays

All that being said I don’t want to get further into a perpetual waiting game for a notebook. Knowing myself If I knew for sure a refresh was going to happen in the fall I probably would not wait because by then I would be thinking too much about the Envy IVY Bridge refresh.

 

The thing is that I got Windows 7 ULTIMATE for free through my job and I really want to use it on a powerful laptop.

I know I can upgrade it while they configure it but won't it cost like $400 thru HP?

Otherwise I'd agree with you...

 

ahh, yes I see your point now. well yes it is $200 more to get win7 ultimate from hp. This sounds like another thread -- how to rebuild the critical "out of box" functionalities after installing fresh win 7 install. the question to answer is "are there any important tools or apps that come installed on the HP image that cannot be downloaded from the support web site"?

Can one upgrade Win 7 from "home" to "ultimate"? or is a fresh install required?

 

Assuming you got the upgrade key for Ultimate and you are willing to keep the existing bit version of your OS, then no reinstallation is necessary. Just pop in the key in the Anytime Upgrade Wizard and in ten minutes your PC will reboot and you will be upgraded.

 

Seriously? It will reboot with all the core HP programs etc BUT install all the additional features that Windows 7 Ultimate offers/has?

NICE!

 

Yup. Assuming you got a valid Upgrade Serial Key.