When can we expect the Envy 14 to lose its ODD?

Just like in the title. Based on your thoughts, just when can we expect to see HP ditch the optical drive for good?


For a history recap, HP really looked into the future when it first released the Envy 15 without it. The absence of an ODD meant more space for an extra hard drive or an extra fan to make for an improved cooling system. An improved cooling system also made it possible to install one of the more powerful mobile GPUs at the time, the ATI 5830. But in response to overwhelming customer discontent with the lack of a built-in ODD, HP followed the will of the ignorant masses and reinstated the ODD in the Envy 14, which led to the loss of the third cooling fan. This was in spite of HP graciously including an external ODD with the first generation Envy 15.


Now I'm reading that Apple will be ditching the ODD. The AppleInsider article dating back to February 2011 advises readers to expect to see ODDs disappear sometime in the next few refresh cycles during the next 12-18 months.


And as always, you will have a few idiots screaming that they need a dedicated ODD that they can use 1-2 times during the usual 3-4 year notebook cycle.


I know I'm sounding pessimistic. But judging from Apple's history of setting notebook industry trends, I'm a little afraid that when it's time to replace my beloved Envy 14 in 2 years, I may end up defecting to Apple.

 

I really thought that I wanted a built in optical drive when I bought my Envy 14. After about a week I decided I really wanted another hard drive. Now my ODD (which I barely use) is in a rubber enclosure. With the addition of the new SSD + HDD combo it would be nice to see the ODD removed to make room for better hardware. Hopefully they figure it out before the envy line is a lost cause.

 

Yes. I was relieved there was even a second generation Envy 14 first place. But the way I saw it, the Envy 14 is in a race against the clock. They made it to the 2nd quarter basketball game with the other side having "only" 15 points above them. But the weak GPU (rebadged? Someone clarify?) only demonstrates the limitations of having an ODD. In junction with their laziness in not redesigning the interior, I get the feeling the Envy 14's going to have a tough 2nd quarter trying to stop the other side's star player from scoring more points. If HP can manage to pull off good sales with the refreshed Envy 14, good for them. But I sincerely hope something causes them to revitalize the line and implement new features and improvements to make it truly worthy of being considered a premium machine. If HP doesn't wake up soon enough, we might just see the entire team forefeiting.


On Apple's side, I wouldn't be too surprised if it were the case that some decision-maker at Apple at least once contemplated removing the ODD from the 13.3" MBP to toss in lower-level dedicated GPU. Just my thought. I'm guessing Apple's interest in guiding people who want/need dedicated GPUs to their more expensive MBP 15 stopped this from happening.


As for the 15" and 17" MBPs, the plan to kill the ODD is no surprise at all. HP's Envy 15 really and I mean really showed us the amount of power a thin and light notebook with no ODD could output with an additional fan. Apple's decision-makers were probably actually pleased to have been able to use the Envy 15 as a lab rat for a future MBP 15/17 2012-2013 refresh in which the new MBP 15s and 17s will feature gaming-worthy GPUs. Even if the future MBP 15/17 owner isn't a gamer, he may be a professional who has other uses for it.


I'll be straight up and honest. I don't like OSX. Something about the filing system and the way stuff gets opened up just annoys me. But at the same time, I can't remain loyal to Windows machines forever if no one is stepping up to the plate in the US with a worthy successor to my Envy 14 2 years down the road.


So here's my ultimatum. In 2 year's time, my Square Trade warranty will expire. HP was lucky that some people here were nice enough to design 3rd party touchpad software that allowed me to utilize butter-smooth two-finger scrolling and two-finger right-click that's even better implemented on my touchpad than on the Apple Macbook's touch pad (I verified this the other day while testing my coworker's 2010 Macbook Pro! ). Without that and other complementary software, my touchpad experience would've been unsatisfactory and would've resulted in my selling my Envy on eBay and going with a Lenovo or a Macbook Pro. God forbid! HP was thus lucky to have had a dumb, ignorant customer such as myself who relied someone else's future generosity. But I will not repeat this decision come late 2013. Around July of 2013, my Square Trade warranty will expire. I will be contacting HP for any out of warranty repairs that need to be made. But outside that, I will be researching a replacement machine. This replacement machine will have to be a true successor to this machine and at least one of the more competitive machines on the market.


If it's not up to par, I will be taking my business to another company. I will be sad to do so as I learned to hate Dell for good reason and found HP's customer service at least somewhat more willing to accommodate my concerns in the past.

 

From what I've understood is that it is in fact smarter to ditch the ODD, but the common person would cringe at the idea of no disk slot. comparatively, this forum is full of people who know what they're doing and can get around the lack of a ODD with the use of virtual drives. Personally, i wish I didn't have a ODD and i had one with the Envy 15 because the digital age is now. Disks are a dying medium and all you need is really one desktop to make iso's of what you want to use on your computer. it saves space and you don't need to carry a stack of CD's with you, just an external HDD if you have alot or just your internal if its a few.
But alas, thats not how most people see it these days. most people would be flabbergasted if they got a laptop to ind out there is no cd and just having it there is assuring to hem even though they never use it. To this da, ive used my ODD maybe 4 times. it would've been better just to have an extra HDD or SDD if the price was better

 

Problem solved for 99%+ of the population.

 

I don't see much of a problem in making the ODD an optional accessory which can be configured during purchase.
All HP would be doing is replacing the ODD with a caddy and an HDD (and a chassis without the disc slot). This IS a premium laptop so why not offer the consumer more choice (also, more costly ... a plus for HP)

 

I wonder if the envy 15 received criticism for a lack of ODD so they made sure to include one on the 14...

 

I used my disk drive once, and that was to do a fresh install of Win7. Even then, I could of just used my USB drive.

 

Yeah, sadly, it did. that's what i was trying to say.

 

I hope they leave it out as soon as possible

 

they probably won't since the outcry of there not being on in the envy 15 was huge

 

I don't think they will remove it at all for the simple fact that most people still use a CD to reinstall or freshly install an operating system (i.e. Windows Vista/7). Unless manufacturers end up supplying flash drives for everyone with the purchase of the product, I don't really see them getting around that. The Envy 14 really supplies mSATA + HDD combination in a very thoughtful manner. I wouldn't want it removed either, because I would rather a slimmer-fit for it, perhaps something like what the XPS 15z uses.

 

I think what would make more sense would be to make the ODD removable and instead install a battery. The Dell Latitude D630 I have has this feature. The entire ODD very easily pops out and a modular battery can be installed. Then all you would need is a cable to use the ODD externally.

 

The space the ODD creates is useful for so many things, as has been expressed in this thread.

If HP were a smart company--but from what I've seen, they really aren't--they should make the ODD optional. With the given space, the customer should be able to choose an ODD, HDD/SDD, extra fan, or battery. Each user will need a different component, so why not give a little flexibility? If only...

Anyways, I'm most likely going to pick up the SB Envy 14 because I need a laptop come August (yikes, that's soon) for college, and the Envy 14 is the best offering I've found. I'm thinking about replacing my ODD with probably a hard drive, and I had some questions:

1) Could you guys direct me to some type of tutorial/video of how to remove the ODD (I'm pretty new to hardware modding).
2) What type of housing would I need to buy for the ODD to use it as an external drive?
3) Would the little CD slot cause any problems if there's no ODD? Maybe dust accumulation or something?
4) I'm thinking about replacing the ODD with an SSD, but the current price of SSDs is just too impractical. If I were to remove the ODD to save weight before I buy an SSD, would the laptop feel awkward since the weight distribution is so off? And would there be any flex is the shell of the laptop since there'll be an empty cavity where the ODD was?

Thanks!

 

Hi, theres a guide somewhere in the forum. The service manual is also pretty handy. I havn't had any problems with dust. I do clean it out with some air every now and then to be on the safe side. As far as an enclosure, I just stumbled across this today. I probably won't get it for a few weeks, but it seemed really nice.
External slot in USB case For Apple macbook pro 371 B | eBay

 

Use your brains people. Having the option to include or leave out an ODD wouldn't gain you anything. Screw the ODD entirely. If there is no option to include one, then HP engineers can design the entire chipset around the extra cooling capability that is allowed without having an ODD. If you make it an option to have one, then they will just design the chipset exactly the same as they do now and people who opt out of the ODD will gain nothing of real value. It is an all or nothing deal here. HP isn't going to have two completely different chipset designs for the same model to make everyone happy. You cannot just put random fans in the case of a laptop and get good results. It could end up blowing hot air in the wrong direction and actually heat up the palm rest or typing surface.

 

Yeah...I really don't think HP is going to entertain the idea of designing two different chassis for the same notebook.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that Apple's one-size-fits-all approach is the best one. First and foremost, it's given that the NBR community's preference isn't exactly representative of the general market's. I really don't think too many people will be swapping out an ODD for an extra hard drive. Yes, I know some people on NBR have done it, but I don't see too many non-NBR customers doing it as well. And a second battery? That just adds extra weight. HP would be better off in engineering the battery to be integrated into the notebook the way Apple does it with their Macbooks. Design the notebook so the battery is able to make efficient use of internal space. This often times means making the battery difficult to take out. I'm sick and tired of people whining that they want/need detachable batteries. The truth is batteries aren't cheap to replace. When you toss in the fact that most laptop batteries last long enough even going into their 3rd year, the number of people replacing their batteries on their own is probably a fraction of a percentage point of sales.


Conclusion: An improved cooling system is probably the best way to go. It means improved longevity and a greater number of possibilities for more powerful GPUs, and potentially more RAM slots.

 

I have to say I disagree. One of the prime selling points for PCs (and Androids, WP7s--basically any Apple competitor) is that there are many differentiated models, and that one will fit the needs of the consumer. I agree that the members here at NBR are far from representing the general public, but I've found myself entertaining many different options as to what to do with the internals of the Envy. Two completely different companies doing completely different things--all I can ask for is that the competition will bring out the best in both parties so that the end-consumer gets the best notebook possible.

 

Ummm, apples and oranges. Here's why.

HP doesn't sell enough Envy notebooks to justify making multiple chassis. It costs money for companies to invest in design and manufacturing for multiple products. The cost is justifiable only if it's proven that the multiple variations of a single product will reach a larger cross-section of the targeted market.

Samsung can do this with the Galaxy S2. 5 million S2 phones sold even before entering China and US means Samsung can easily anticipate being able to sell 4 different versions of this very phone in the US within a year and hit a large cross-section of the market.

But the Envy? Not the same. It doesn't garner the large sales figures Macbooks do. That's why to maximize the return on investment, HP's best bet is selling only one version of the HP Envy, but choosing the configuration that reaches the largest possible market. If it could achieve millions in sales, then yes, offering a swap-out option for battery/HDD would be nice. But again--why not just design the battery to last 10+ hours and let consumers upgrade their own HDD drives? Notebook HDD drives are dirt cheap these days and SSDs are falling in price as well.

And for differentiated models--HP already does that with the other notebooks it sells such as the DV6 series. Your analogy is actually slightly off the mark because even if HP were to just adopt my proposed one-size-fits-all approach, it would be no different from the way HTC sells only one version of the Thunderbolt and one version of the Bionic, both products which will inevitably cannibalize each other anyway. HP already kills its own products with the DM4t, regrettably.

But even so--I question using the Android analogy. Phones aren't customizable. People just don't swap out the hard drive or the CPU. They toss those phones after 1.5-2 years. That's why I'd suggest not using that analogy.

 

Ah, I see what you're saying. Man, I'm getting it handed to me, notebooks and phones .

It's a big change-up that people might not grasp immediately, but it definitely does have its pluses as you've noted. I personally do like having the option to swap out batteries if need be, but on second thought, slice batteries seem to fit the bill just fine (for those who need THAT much battery life).

As for my analogy, I now see its faults lol. My main issue is that I really don't want to see HP, or any other manufacturer for that matter, turn into a pseudo-Apple that produces one and ONLY one product for a certain consumer. For example, there are only the MBP 13, 15, and 17--no more, no less, and no in-between's. If you don't like a certain thing, you're screwed. I just like the fact that there are SO many PCs (and Android phones--I'm a big Android junkie ), that with some research, you can find what's perfect for you.

 

In principle, I'm all for diversity. I love it. But when HP is catering to a relatively small and new customer base, it has to play its cards wisely. The least it can do for now is figure out a way to improve its battery technology and tweak its notebooks' power consumption for maximum battery life. Having two hard drive bays just isn't going to be a top priority. Not many people need two bays to begin with. Keeping these two points in mind, if HP could bring back high-res displays and lose the ODD, they'd have a winner.


If I were an exec, I'd plan the release of an ODD-less Envy for late 2012 or 2013. It's excellent timing.