Why no Optimus on the new HP's ??

Why are manufacturers being so slow in rolling out Nvidia Optimus - especially as it's cheaper to implement ! (I think?)

Actually, same thing for USB 3.0 - it's backward compatible with 2.0 so why is HP still using the old version ?

While I'm at it why did HP leave out the Fingerprint Reader on their flagship new Envy's ?

 

Probably because Optimus isn't as good as a solution in reality as it is in theory. Also, USB 3.0 isn't all that right now due to Intel not choosing to support it on their current motherboards. So companies would have to get an expansion card (such as from NEC), which is more expensive, less efficient, and generally not as good as built-in solutions. Because of this, they've only implemented it on a few of their higher end laptops (HP Elitebook 8540w for example).

 

Don't most HP laptops use ATI graphics cards?

As for USB 3.0, who really needs it? It adds cost for the manufacturer. Is it worth it for HP to include USB 3.0 for just a few more customers? Management must have decided it wasn't. Wait for chip sets that support USB 3.0 by default, then it will catch on as it will be no added cost.

 

Think about that one for a second. You just said Nvidia Optimus. HP laptops use ATI graphic cards.

 

I wouldn't trade down to an Nvidia GPU just for Optimus, although it is a good idea. Might be worth it later when some mobile type fermi derivative is available.

Is ATI working on anything equivalent?

 

There's no fingerprint readers because no one wants it, they look bad, and they aren't all that effective.

 

Optimus requires specific implementation items on the notebooks. The fact that vendors such as HP like to be able to switch between ATI and NVIDIA (just one example) causes problems.

Also as noted, it's not as 'simple' as just using it. Compatibility and BIOS settings have to be very specific and well tested.

In fact, APPLE didn't use Optimus, they used their own proprietary solution, and even they are having some issues.

Yes ATI has boasted their own 'equivilent' but frankly it's not mature.

As far as USB 3, as previously mentioned, INTEL does not support it in their native chipsets. Any USB 3 implementation is done through third-party chipset providers such as NEC. I wouldn't worry too much at this stage. USB 3 will eventually become standard, but the adoption is not there just yet.
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1) Optimus sucks. Needs Nvidia (which are weak compared to ATI) never works unless you go through the hassle of adjusting it (which seems retarded since whole point of Optiums was suppose to make things easier)

2) USB3.0? Why so you can pay double for a external hard drive? I'm way more interested in what lightpeak is capable of.


3) Fingerprint readers are awful. They kill the aesthetics of a notebook. They never work in one go and are easy as balls to cheat.

 

So really my question should be, why is ATI not competing with Nvidia's innovation and why isn't Intel integrating USB3 in to it's chips ??

Isn't the high tech IT world supposed to be the most fast moving industry sector - seems to me they are just sitting on their asses !! Nobody even makes a "thin" BluRay drive yet ffs !!

Are Fingerprint Readers really that sucky (HP is putting them in the new Pavillions) and I keep reading how kickass Optimus is ??

 

Optimus is according to almost every tech reviewer I've seen on the internet and talked to is a great GPU switching technology. But frankly, I could care less if I had it or not. I don't mind just manually switching to the integrated GPU when I need it, and to dedicated when I need it. I guess Optimus is more handsfree, but I wouldn't give up an ATI card for it.

 

They aren't sucky, but I don't think that they really belong in a consumer notebook. I've had them for longer than most people (around 4-5 years), and it's been a hit or miss. It's all a software thing. On my HP Compaq nx9420 with XP Pro, the software slowed down my computer. A lot.

On my EliteBook, well, it depends. With Vista, you're forced to use HP ProtectTools suite. While it works, the login is a little sketchy. There's been so many times where I (embarassingly, in front of a bunch of people) swiped my finger with no success, and others where I swiped once and got in. With Windows 7 (and the default Authentec/Win7 software), I've gotten in with one swipe on most tries, and it's kept out everyone else so far. However, if you choose to go the non ProtecTools route, you lose other options that ProtecTools give you to logon.

 

1) ATI is trying. Again it's not as simple as a direct competition.
Requires a LOT of work with motherboard partners.

2) Intel will likely release USB3 with it's next-gen chipset solutions. There's no reason for them to release it now when the majority of users will not notice a difference.

3) The tech industry has had interesting financial times. DVD burners are in huge supply. The industry would kill itself if it released all new products at affordable prices without having sold current inventory. Supply and demand, supply and demand.

4) FingerPrint readers are a 'cool' factor for consumers, nothing more. For businesses, some have been unable to use them due to data privacy concerns, while others have made the leap.

RE: Optimus is so cool: If it were so awesome, it would be in every system. It has limitations, it's not there. Even APPLE isn't using it, and Apple takes pride in making "cool products". It's great when implemented properly, but it limits the flexibility of the solution.
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1) How soon do you think it will be before ATI bring something to market?

2) I'm thinking Intel are deliberately holding USB3 back - to favour their own Light Peak format!

3) Dunno about that dude - most manufacturers use "Just In Time" production and so hold very little old inventory these days ..... the point here is Sony should be trying to kill DVD!

4) The "cool" factor is often the most important thing to help generate sales!

5) No doubt "Auto Switching" will become the standard eventually - and yes, Apple have built an entire business on being "cool" ...... but using Apple as an example of cutting edge tech is a major fail - they only recently decided to add a SD Card reader to their iMacs and still (probably never will) embrace Blu Ray!

 

Because Nvidia sucks and they burned HP and their customers with their 8-series debacle that turned everyone of their laptops into 1-year death machines.

Besides, Nvidia has just been rebadging their chips for ages now.

ATI all the way.

 

What happened with the 8 series!?

True - just wish they would come out with an auto-switching solution asap!

 

There was some or other issue with the manufacturing that caused the die envelope (?) to just fall apart over time. I remember getting fliers about it handed to me at the nVision08 conference lol

 

The 8-series GPU line had bad solder points. I can't remember what Nvidia used, but basically, after x-# on/off cycles, the solder points would break and you would end up with a perfectly functioning laptop, sans display. The HP forums are littered with hundreds of posts about laptops having no output display on the LCD itself or on an external monitor. The GPU basically dies. Nvidia never exactly admitted anything wrong, but I think they ended up paying a few billion IIRC to various vendors. I'm sure it was a nightmare for HP having thousands of people calling in... so I'm pretty sure they're glad to give Nvidia a big P U and use ATI graphics.

So basically, Nvidia gave HP a faulty GPU that after a year or so, rendered laptops dead.

And like I said, at this point in time, ATI graphics are superior to Nvidia solutions on the mobile front. I swear it's as if Nvidia has just been rebadging their chips since the 9-series. Heck, the 9-series was basically the 8-series just without the self-destruct tendency.


Regarding the auto-switching solution, personally, I prefer to do it on my own. I hated the auto-switch nature of "powermizer" when my Nvidia 8400gs was functioning. Whenever I would connect it to an external display, it would ramp up to high-performance mode, when it wasn't needed or warranted. I'd like to have full control over the GPU. Really, with the new Intel HD GPU, the only time you're going to need the discrete graphics is when you start playing a game. I remember reading an Anandtech review of the Mac system with optimus, and how it was detrimental to battery life, because it kept switching the discrete graphics on, even when the Intel HD graphics were just fine.

As I understand, the manual switch is rather painless and quick, nothing but a right click and a selection.


I had two Nvidia GPUs die on me, my 6150 (also faulty) that came in the DV2315NR, and the 8400gs in my DV2500 that they sent me as a replacement. And trust me, I babied those machines. But...crap was built to fail.

 

I think everyone's 6150 failed.

 

They have been. Just look at the chip codes. The G96 has been their chip since the 9xxx series through the 3xx series, with slight modifications for the GTxxx series that are listed.

 

I only know one company using Optimus and that would be Asus.

 

Here you go:

Four more major laptop manufacturers will use NVIDIA Optimus by the fall -- Engadget

 

I personally like manually switching because I have never liked pre-programmed power saving options. I like to have control.

 

Is ATI's swtichable graphics defined as being also manually switchable via software?

So I dont have to physically havea plug nearby to use the discreet ATI gpu (as in the envy 14 ones).?

 

Optimus is a Windows-only piece of trash. It takes total control away from the user and puts it in the hands of proprietary drivers that don't work right. Nvidia has even said basically "Sorry, we aren't going to support it under Linux". It wouldn't be so bad if you could at least force the discrete graphics card "on" like you can with a BIOS or manual switch, but you can't - it defaults to the integrated piece of crap and the discrete option you paid good money for is inaccessible.

As far as USB 3.0 is concerned I wouldn't mind paying more that it is completely overwritten as a standard from USB2, but sadly Intel is holding things up. Still I think the Envy 14 deserves at least one USB 3.0 port.

 

You have to realize the technology is still in its infancy and far from perfect. You're buying into the hype right now. Things don't get adopted so quickly nor do things come out bug free the first time either. Optimus will improve over time and AMD will come out with their own on-the-fly switching in due time, just no one knows when but AMD. I'd rather have them take their time and get it right then to just rush something out just to compete with Nvidia to only be buggy and glitchy.

 

Two things that nobody mentioned about Nvidia Optimus is how it decides to use discrete or onboard. From what I have read Optimus looks for executable to be launched to make the switch from onboard to discrete and if you don't have updated your graphics card drivers then say you boot up Portal 2 the switch will not take place on it's own you will have to switch them manually. Also the only current chipset that supports Optimus is the Nvidia 300m line aka 200,100,9000, and 8000 series so it's only DX 10. I think it could be a great technology but still too early for HP or other company's to jump on board.

ATI on the other hand is a DX11 card and does have graphic card switching but is based on if your laptop is plugged into power or not(Envy 14,17). I think this is a better solution because the onboard intel chipset may be weak by gaming standards but it should be more then powerful enough to drive 1080p video and save you battery life. There is no reason at least in my mind you would ever want your ATI 5850 to jump into overdrive while on battery power so I can watch two girl one cup.

HP made the right choice for choosing ATI for a number of reasons and it looks like Nvida is getting less common in the dedicated GPU laptop market for one of many reasons and whiles it's always good to have competition it's time for them to step up to the plate with new video cards and not re branded ones.

 

Dude, check out the GTX 480 M !!

Nvidia Unveils World's Fastest Laptop Graphics Chip - Graphic News - TrustedReviews

 

True - but almost all the reviews of Optimus are already very positive ...... good enough for HP to start offering it to customers ......

 

ATI makes better mobile cards than Nvidia.

I don't see the point of Optimus, to be honest. As long as it switches when I go to battery life, that's all I need.

 

In response to the fingerprint scanner, there were alot of garbage ones that were released, but the ones on the HDX series laptops were great. Always detected on the first go. I liked it because you could store passwords that way ( goto ebay.com and just swipe your finger to login). I wish more laptops would have good ones like that.

 

i ordered a dv6tse this morning and im curious to know how everything is going to work together. i would wait to order it and let someone else be the Guinea pig but i was just too excited. any way i might do a review. is anyone interested?

 

Yup, that's the coolness I desperately need !!

Hell Yeah !!

 

great. my in stock order is already on its way to my house and HP says the laptop was dropped to factory. I'm not a 100% sure what that means but it definitely sounds like a good thing. ill the thread know what it ships

 

Dropped to factory means it is about to begin being built.

 

thanks i thought it was something like that. i hope it gets built by tomorrow night. i dont think demand is too high right now. everyone is waiting to hear if it has any problems

 

Instead of Optimus would it be possible to enable the IGP in the i5 version of the Envy 17? Is there any software which allows this, as apparently someone in the Envy 17 Owners Lounge said the motherboard supports the integrated GPU, but the questions is can we enable it?

 

I've read that you can't enable the IGP at all, but I'm sure there is a way to do it if you have the technical knowledge.

 

[flamebait]Because HP is smart and decided to choose the next-gen (compared to nVIDIA's offerings) ATI GPUs? [/flamebait]