dv6t-61XX / dv7t-61XX Switchable Graphics Discussion

just got my new dv6tqe and while i'm otherwise very happy with it, the dynamic switching really is a pain in the . if i have to go to ccc and turn every game i install onto high performance it'll be annoying for sure.

 

thanks. I'll do a bit of research on Asus models.

 

Have you verified that the Radeon kicks in? (as in 100% CERTAIN that it runs when you want it to?) It was super easy for me to determine that mine failed to work, because FSX shows the current graphics card in the Display-Customize screen.

 

yeah, i did. i was running sc2, and when i opened ccc "starcraft2.exe" or something like it (basically the program that runs startup for sc2 but not the actual game) was set to high performance, but sc2.exe wasn't. when i switched sc2.exe from normal to high performance, it went from 11 fps to 45 stable on all high settings 1920x1080

 

awesome!


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Those of you who are complaining about the new (muxless) switchable graphics haven't had the pain of dealing with the old mux-based approach. My ThinkPad T400 has the mux system and it sucks.

With the old system, every time you switch you get several seconds of a completely dark screen. Then there's the fact that you can't switch with most 3D applications running. And the fact that switching often screws up things like Flash and video playback.

Having to choose high performance mode on a per-game basis is a small price to pay for having a system that's automatic and transparent.

 

Yeah, I understand that. The first dv7 I had before the exchange had the earlier switching, and it was slightly annoying. I had a sneaking suspicion that there were some small display problems after switching back and forth as well.

The thing is that I only ever used the switching to test it out, and really have no interest in switching at all. I would assume most users are not running CAD, design software, or games while on battery, so I'm not sure it's really as advantageous as it seems.

I do like the fact that switching is now seamless, but I wish I wouldn't have to worry about if my GPU was being used or not. The fix would be as simple as to have the settings default to High Performance for unspecified apps.

 

I had ZERO ISSUES with the previous method of manual switching. I could just set it to High Performance and leave it at that, knowing I could use my laptop for ANY app, at any moment in time, and it would work great. HP followed up that simple system with one that is either a PITA, or it doesn't work in some samples, such as the DV6 that I received last week. I wouldn't call that progress.

 

Have you tried simply disabling the Intel HD graphics in Device Manager? Since it's active, it may prompt a reboot, but I'm curious if it forces the use of the 6770m.

 

that doesn't work.

 

Envy users now having failure of Switchable graphics: Envy 17 3d switchable graphics fails to switch to discrete g... - HP Support Forum

 

Based on the timestamps on their post, those are people who only have the manual switch version.

The dynamic switch are pretty much on the revision models. Also, no report of people yet gotten their 2100 series.

 

Guys, please, clear out for me, we have new revision of hp dv6 with dynamic graphic switch or not?

Cause on my laptop i have to switch manually.

 

Apparently AMD is starting to put their dynamic switching graphics in newer computers

AMD PowerXPress 4.0 aka BACON vs. Nvidia Optimus - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

I, for one, prefer manually switching which one reason I sold my notebooks with Optimus.

 

So its hardware thing and i won't have it with driver update? Pity...

 

All I can say is that I'm glad I got one of the "older" radeon 6770m in my DV6.....auto switching is, well just not mature enough yet. Optimus to me is an epic fail.....its fine in a laptop thats not used by ppl who game etc. but for me it just caused huge issues on my Alienware m11x r2and is the reason I sold it and got the DV6.
Isnt it funny that in attempt to make life easier, for the masses, we in effect make it more complex by introducing a whole new array of problems. Im not looking forward to the endless "Issue with switchable graphics" threads that we are about to get..............

 

Like the notebookcheck article, I'm still on the fence. I think the technology itself is good, but I would like to see more refinement, and more options. Specifically, the recommendation for a default gpu is a good one, and the ability to manually switch when necessary would also be nice.

Benchmarking is certainly more difficult with the new switchable graphics, but gameplay has proven to be pretty much seamless. I picked up some of the newer games, and both Crysis 2 and Starcraft 2 work seamlessly with the new BACON (love the name!) switchable graphics, as long as they are set up in CCC to performance mode. Older titles also haven't proven to be a problem for me. I'm currently running the 11.5b drivers, and have had only a couple minor issues getting the graphics to switch over to the 6770m. One thing to note, is to check the box to give you a warning when a gpu has not been specified for an application. If it still doesn't pop the box up, go into the second set of options under the list view and search for the specific .exe file you want to add. Once it's properly setup, you shouldn't have any problems with it.

 

Care to expound on the "and have had only a couple minor issues getting the graphics to switch over to the 6770m" comment?

 

I think it is a pretty self-explanatory comment ...

 

Both Futuremark and 3d Mark Vantage use several executables when running benchmarks. You need to make sure that you associate all of them with a gpu, otherwise it likely will default to the Intel HD, or will switch over when it detects the high load, thus impacting your score. For games that's not a problem, but when comparing drivers, etc. it can be. Personally, I'd prefer just to be able to manually switch when benchmarking and leave it in autoswitch mode the rest of the time.

 

perhaps. I didn't read the two sentences that followed.

 

1) So, is this a hardware thing on the newer shipped DVXTs or a driver thing? What exactly is the difference between models shipping within the last month and those shipping earlier?

2) also, to those saying that it is in fact swicthing, what is the indication? Just performance, or can you see it working in oh say, fanspeed or cpuid or something?

3) Can we roll back the drivers and get manual?

4) Is there anyway just to set it to "performance" all the time? Or only with specific programs?

 

Yea i have been unsuccessful bench marking with 3d mark and the new dynamic switching, what other exe files need to be associated to make it work? Has anyone had success with benchmarking with the dynamic? Other than this small problem I have found the dynamic rather likable, It is convenient to not always have to switch it yourself although I agree the option to set a default would be nice. I think it is something that we will see in the future tho at least.

 

1. I can't say if it's hardware changes or not-but I CAN tell you that the new units can't have the driver from december 2010 installed--it will fail, no matter how you try to install it.

2. on my DV6 (the one I got June 1st), switching to Radeon failed. HP tried for many hours (dialed into my DV6) to get it to work with various drivers and settings (I actually know more about it then they do--seriously).

4. I set everything related to "performance". Radeon would not function. For me it was really easy to determine that it wasn't--I loaded FSX right after seeing the issue with switching, and FSX makes it easy to see which driver is running.

 

can anybody give a tutorial on how to overclock the new dv6s now that there is dynamic gpu switching?

 

This is an unfortunate circumstance for you. Are you exchanging or returning? If returning i would expect that you are going to get a discount in return for your troubles if you ask for it. Which you should of course

 

I returned it (and the previous DV6 which HP was unable to get Intel My Wifi Internet sharing feature to work. the second DV6 with SG issue worked like a charm with the Intel MW IS feature. go figure. Two samples. two different deal breakers)

 

Dave, can you give me a quick primer on how to test that my Radeon actually works or if it's just dynamic like Fiveoneooo's experience?

Thanks!

 

That's one of the issues I had with the SG--PROVING for SURE, which graphics card was enabled at any point in time. THe only way I could (with the limited S/w that I had on hand) was to fire up FSX and go straight to the Graphics-customize screen. that shows which card is running. There must be a free utility that shows which is running but I didn't bother to download any, as it was clear that on MY MACHINE, the Radeon never kicked in. The Radeon worked like a CHAMP on the previous DV6--giving me great frame rates in FSX. I just emailed the tech that was working this issue, asking him if ANYONE at HP is looking into the problem. I haven't heard back--I think HP is stymied by the problem I had. I mean, geez, they spent nearly HALF A DAY dialed into my laptop...

 

Dave, I appreciate your response. But i I don't think your situation is typical. Can someone with a working DVxT try to answer my questions please? Thanks!

 

I sure hope it's not! I really want to get another Dv6, but given that my first one was ordered April 19th and my second unit came June 1st (and defective), I'm understandably gun-shy about getting yet another one. Oh, and one thing I've never mentioned--both units had keyboards that weren't seated. I had to use my fingernail to go all around each keyboard's edges to get them to click into place. HP's assembly line needs more oversight.

 

one of my dv6 was also not seated completely - but that to me is a very minor issue.

as for your graphics problem - did you set flight simulator on performance mode? just going to make sure that you didn't miss something obvious here...

if you prefer the manual switch, i see no reason why you can't just install the driver for the dv6t-6000 version. all the switchability (manual, auto, or nonexistent) should be in the HP driver. so you can do:

1) uninstall the display drivers completely - windows should default to vga mode of ugly 800x600 or something

2) download and install the manual switchable drivers from hp support - Software & Driver Downloads HP Pavilion dv6t-6000 CTO Quad Edition Entertainment Notebook PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

3) if installation fails for any reason (aka not hardware not recognized etc...) use universal extractor to extract the actual drivers from the spXXXXX.exe and install the drivers individually.

given that they are using the same hardware, i see no reason why that wouldn't work.

having said that, i prefer the automatic switching simply because it is seamless and does not flicker or freeze up my games when i do switch.

 

no, we missed nothing obvious (sigh)

 

Hey, can someone take a crack at my questions? Thanks!-

 

1.) Im not sure but I believe someone mentioned it was a hardware thing and they were not able to roll back to a driver that had manual switching.

2.)You can tell by performance and fanspeed. The fan kicks in when its going.

3.) I dont think we can roll back the drivers, someone mentioned they tried with no luck, they said they removed all the drivers and tried to install it fresh but it didnt work out, not sure why.

4.) I have not found a way to set it HyPo all the time, it is only with certain programs although it does switch very seamlessly which is nice.

 

1.) Defintely a hardware thing, as those running 11.5b with older 6770m's still see the ability to manually switch, while the new 6770m owners cannot.

2.) +1, fan and performance are two indicators. if you alt + tab out of a game while the 6770m is active, and run GPU-Z, you'll also get the correct speeds, which is an indicator.

3.) I've tried several sets of drivers, and you will not be able to get manual switching on the newer cards unless ATI releases updated drivers that allow it. Even if you roll back, you won't get the option to manually switch.

4.) I was trying to figure out an easy way to do this as well, but have not been able to come up with a solution. I was hoping by disabling the Intel HD, it would revert, but there's more to it than that due to the software implementation.

 

Awesome answers, thanks guys!

 

no it's definitely a software thing. the switchable graphics isn't the ATI drivers - it's from the HP drivers. there reason that a "rollback" install of HP's manual switchable graphics drivers failed is most likely because the spXXXXX.exe checks for the product number of your laptop to ensure compatibility.

since the new ones are 6100, and not 6000, the setup will fail just because of a dumb reason. use universal extractor on the hp driver, and extract the actual driver itself to install, and you should be fine.

the reason why you can't disable intel is because of the way the switchable graphics is setup.

intel:
applications -> intel HD 3000 -> screen output

ATI:
applications -> ATI -> intel HD 3000 -> screen output

as you can see, the ATI chip takes input from applications/games, then outputs to intel first then the screen, not screen directly. so disabling intel would disconnect the screen output from the rest of your computer, and hence nothing will work.

you can see the general scheme here:
notice how the only connection to the display is through the intel chip.

and read about the entire muxless (automatic) switching here: http://www.rage3d.com/articles/amd_powerxpress4_asif_rehman_interview/

and i just noticed this:

this does not mean that the ATI chip is inactive, its just doing its work anonymously behind the scene.

 

nice response, and very detailed, teotuf...however I don't see you making the case for the muxed switching being a software thing. It would seem to be a hardware issue if the older models don't support muxless switching and the newer ones don't support muxed switching all other things being equal.

No?

 

It's in inactive if no one using it.

It because the MOS is in cutoff state, where there is no current flow between the source and the drain.
You can rip out the AMD chip out while it laptop is on, and still displaying something until something tries to use it.

The dv6/dv7 6000 series is a bit weird, it has support for both mux and muxless design. (Originally the 6000 series was supposed to be dynamic switching which didn't come out in time.)

HP Driver didn't let you install the older version cause it has a model whitelist, which is all over the place, editing just the table and inf isn't enough. Second, it was based off 11.2, requires 11.4 at least to be somewhat working, where the Windows Update version of the HP driver is insufficient, there's no CCC in it.
You need the older HP CCC to get the manual switch.

 

i will confirm it once i receive my new dv6-6100 (clearance delay in alaska rigth now). but intuitively i see no hardware difference between the dv6-6000 and dv6-6100 as far as the graphics framework goes. the fact that older ones dont support muxless/new ones dont support mux switching is simply because that drivers require the specific models.

an analogy is that my car is a toyota (dv6t-6000), and yours is a ford(dv6t-6100). i'm registered for my toyota and you are registered for your ford. the question is can I drive your ford/can you drive my toyota - and the main problem is that i dont have your car's keys and can't drive your car legally (registration only recognizing you as the driver, not me), not the fact that i can't operate a car just because it is a ford. simply by giving me your keys and adding me to the insurance/registration (aka, installing the driver succesfully), i can legally drive your car just as effectively as you can.

in other words - and i'll confirm it once i get my new laptop - the only difference between the two is an updated driver from HP giving automatic switching in the dv6-6100 models. if you bypass the driver whitelist (by extracting the driver from the spXXXXX.exe), you can install the drivers meant for the 6000 series on the 6100 version and get the old manual switchable graphics.

 

The real question is...are ford's better than toyota's? Distraction...lol

Anyway, so are you saying that the 6100 series laptops use powerexpress 4.0? If so, isn't this a better thing? Its pseudo-crossfire which, in theory, should increase your graphics capabilities. That is, the computer can dedicate its rendering duties to both processors...right?

As for your example, I'm not really sure if I'm terribly up-to-speed on the implementation of AMD's powerexpress 4.0. If its hardware-based, than I disagree. If its simply software and model issues (like your keys in the example), than its only a matter of time before they release drivers to do both...

hmmmmm

 

It's simply a software/model issue.

It is expected to be pushed to all Intel switchable starting with those 6000M or higher by end of the year.

Also, HP doesn't like making two drivers of the same main series. They are slow than they need to.

 

1. So, as it is a software issue...and they're pushing it out to all 6000M units. Is it safe to say that they're abandoning manual switching?

2. Also, is it accurate to assume that these are using powerexpress 4.0

3. With the new dynamic switching (muxless) are we able to use only HP drivers or newer drivers from AMD as they come out

4. Does this new system actually improve performance by utilizing load-sharing of the hybrid system or only cross display where the dGPU only acts as the IGP's slave doing all the heavy lifting while the IGP gets all the credit (ie. outputs the video so the OS doesn't see two different drivers).

 

I have no trouble buying the fact that it's software based, but if it's software running on the card itself and we have no end user ability to update the card's bios, then we're still SOL. I've been around long enough to remember updating both drivers and bios for video cards... I can't remember the last time I came across a stand alone video card where new bios updates were offered, but it was back in the days of AGP and earlier.

Teotuf, are you saying that there is a separate HP process that controls the switching itself? If so, the process would show up in Task Manager, and I doubt that, because why would the CCC interface with the HP software, if non-HP based CCC/driver packages still work with our cards?

 

OK, let's cut to the chase. here's what I want to know (PLEASE!!!)

If I buy another DV6, will I be able to use the MANUAL method of controlling the graphics, as I did with the DV6 I ordered in April, because according to you, it IS possible to roll the drivers back (to December, 2010 or Jan 2? 2011, I hope?) ie, can I simply extract the correct files (and what's the URL to those drivers?)

(and just to clarify, the unit I sent back last friday wouldn't switch to the Radeon no matter what HP tried) I want a DV6 that I CAN CONTROL the graphics card. Basically I want it running on the Radeon 100%.

 

Currently not using the newer PowerExpress 4 yet, only a preview version that was already implemented in 11.4.

AMD is not getting rid of the manual switching, they just haven't figure out how to get it work well in a muxless design. If they can't reasonably keep it without messing up, they drop it.

Once, the muxless design is complete and working, AMD would be releasing it, not HP. This would get rid the OEM dependency for graphic drivers. Just like the Nvidia's Optimus.

As for the new system, I don't know much. I know they really behind compared to Nvidia in this field.

As the non OEM based driver version would still work since it was partially implemented since 11.4. The problem is your intel driver is ridiculously out of date, which could trigger other issues.

 

Thanks for the answers/clarification

 

The hardware IS different, after all, many got the 2GB version of 6770M that was not previously avialble. I wonder, if one should be able to rollback drivers for the 1 GB version still though?

 

I found this in the Catalyst Control Center's switchable graphics help section:

Does this mean it's possible to have both dynamic and manual switching?