dv9000 Frustration (Help!)

Hi all,
Over the last few weeks the DV9000(s) I have used have caused me much frustration. I bought this notebook for use as a gaming/college laptop combination. My first notebook was the origional DV9000 that I ordered the day it came out. I had every option maxed out, with the dual AMD proccessors, 2gb RAM, and the 256mb 7600 Go. Now, this was able to handle F.E.A.R. at 1240 resolution on all maximum settings with a reasonable FPS.
Heres where my confusion comes in... Through a couple of screen problems and other stuff, I was given the option to trade it in for a new system, and i chose to upgrade to the dv9000t. Once again, the stats were the same as my previous notebook, but with the intel processors and a newer 512 version of the 7600. For some insane reason, when i play fear and test (3DMark03,05, and 06) this new computer vs the old one (both of which I still have with me until i send the old one back) i get CONSIDERABLY lower FPS with the (seemingly) better equipped system on the exact same settings in the game.
I would really appreciate any help with trying to get this thing to perform to its maximum potential. It's incredibly frustrating. Should I just send back the one that performs worse?

 

Did you reformat or do a clean install? Check what bloatware and processes are running and consuming your system resources. If you have NAV as your security suite that would explain a lot! It's a resource hog.

Checkout the reinstall guide here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=73377

 

Yea, the best thing to do is when you get a new laptop do a full reformat and reinstall the OS

 

That has nothing at all to do with it. I have 2 GB of RAM, and there is nothing hogging up my CPU. Any other ideas?

 

More info might help. Which Intel processor do you have, Core Duo or Core 2 Duo (what speed)? Which Turion X2? TL50,52,56,60? What are the frame rates you're getting for both the AMD and Intel?

 

The intels are core 2 duo (the newer ones) at 2.0Ghz. The turions are the 2.0Ghz as well. Im getting around 2-15 FPS for the intel (which is supposed to be better, and is accompanied by the 512 card), and around 20-50 or so for the AMD. Its seriously ridiculous and im about to freak out.

 

Fresh install with a good video driver will fix it... mine would barely move around in the OS it had so much crap on it when I got it. That Core 2 duo and video card should smoke your old setup.

 

Thats not going to help me... Theres nothing on my computer that would cause it to run THAT much slower just from random programs hogging up memory.

 

I've been telling people that the C2D is overhyped, but does anyone listen? Nooooo...

Doing a clean install of WinXP is good advice when you don't know which part of Windows is hosed. Actually doing so when HP doesn't give you clean CDs to install from is another matter, but it can be done. See the instructions here. See if you can integrate RyanVM's Windows XP Post-SP2 Update Pack while you're at it.

 

Perhaps your answer lies within the graphics forum. Did you update your drivers for the Go7600? Are your Nvidia powermizer settings all the way up?

 

It should be easy enough to figure out where the problem lies and it makes more sense to know exactly what is happening as opposed to assuming things are what you believe them to be. Things to check:

1). View running processes in Task Manager for both machines or d/l the more complete Process Explorer here:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.mspx

Link is at bottom of page.

That will give you an indication of what, if any, process hog is slowing down the rate. You'll also get a snapshot of currently allocated memory.

2). Make sure both machines are running with the same video driver version. As anyone here can tell you, a crappy driver can make any card a piss-poor performer. Try using released drivers from Laptopvideo2go.com for better performance, but create a restore point before you install it, just in case.

3). Check the version of Direct X being used and d/l the latest from MS.

 

I can definitely tell that the core 2 duos are pwning the AMDs, its just my graphics cards are being fudgey. For some insane reason, the 512 is running slower. In multiple 3dMark03 and 05 tests, the cpu tests are better on the intel machine with the 512 gpu, but the graphics tests are better on the AMD maching with the 256 gpu. I may have found a reason. The 512 card is running at an average of 90-101 degrees celcius. The other card doesn't ever go above 70. Would this be the cause? Is the reason im seeing a lack of performance caused by the higher memory card overheating? The gpu temperature cutoff as assigned in the Nvidia options for both cards is set at 110 degrees. The 512 card is cutting it pretty close, and in some cases has shot up to around 108.

 

1. There is not a problem with processes hogging me down, Im having plenty of memory available, About the same amount on both computers.

2. The graphical drivers on the 512 computer are actually newer than the 256 computer.

3. I have the newest direct x

Thanks for posting though, it is appriciated.

 

No problem. Not that it will definitely make a difference, but newer doesn't necessarily translate into better. Your call, but running the same driver version as the AMD would pretty much prove there isn't a resource/software issue involved. In any case, good luck with your quest.

And yes, the temp could be a major fault. Mine (Go 7200) never gets above 60C. If yours is running at 90C and above, there is good reason to suspect a hardware defect.

 

alright, I'm going to try a fresh install from my two discs that have nothign important on them. HOPEfully this will fix something

 

Could be. The GPU will throttle under heat stress, same as a CPU. If the GPU heatsink wasn't mounted correctly that'd do it. Tearing apart the notebook to get to that will void your warranty though, so I'd be inclined to return it for service or refund.

 

OK, the fresh install did nothing for it. Still runs 3dmark03 at about 3026 on the dv9000t, Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor T7200 (2.0 GHz)
2 GB mem, Nvidia 7600 go with 512 MB memory on Nvidia, and dual 100 GB SATA drives with 1680x1050 LCD.

I installed alll of the available driver updates for the BIOS, Nvidia and video about 8 in all. None have any effect. It still runs at about 3000 3dmark03. The equivalent dv9000z that I am trying to replace with this dv9000t runs at 8112 3dmark03 which is very close to what they list here http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/HP-Pavilion-dv9000t.htm for a dv900t with only the 256 MB Nvidia 7600 go GPU. It listed 3dmark03 at 8,657 .

THat seems reasonable as even my slow dv9000t beats the AMD version I have in the CPU parts of that test in its broken state.

It is still running at 92 to 104 C, pretty hot. Even after cooling down and turning it back on it starts at 86C and at the end of the benchmark it is at 104C.

I also recompacted the disk, no help. chated with HP support chatline. Totally of not help since it must be their holiday staff. They said the AMD is faster and live with it or ask for an AMD replacement! They did not eveeen ask me to update the drivers or anything.

The nvidia driver on the older AMP is older that the one on the intel an I can not find that older version to try to install. All the newer ones are slow still. Maybe just a bad motherboard. THe Nvidia 7600 Go is built into the motherboard. 2 motherboards are offered one with 512 nvidia and one with 256 nvidia.

ANy ideas?

I am going to recheck the directx to double check that it is upto date. It is a 9x vintage so it is hard to believe that it alone would make it 3x slower but will recheck.

Thanks for any help. I plan on calling HP support on the phone and ask them as well.

Basically all the individual frame rates in the 3dmark03 results are 1/3 of the AMD version right now.

 

Some more information.
I checked the direct X it is 9.0c

I also let the dv9000t sit turned off for a while (20 minutes) and then tested it quickly after boot.

The GPU temp was 76C 3 minutes after boot.
the first test of 3dmark03 "wings of fury" did 8600 frames for the test instead of it's normal 4600 when hot. the rest of the tests were slow. after the first wings test for 3dmark03 it was at 102C. On the AMD it does 10,400 frames for the same test.

so i am convinced that the GPU has a thermal problem. needs a heat sync or fan or something. On the AMD the GPU temp stays around 68C.

When the test runs on the dv9000t (intel) the main fan does not go off low speed. The CPUs are cool the GPU is the only thing that is hot.

If I run a CPU test like Intels "itat" the fans for the CPUs click on immediately as the CPU goes from 40C to 65 or 70C. All the time the GPU is at 100 C or so with no graphics running. The fans click back off in about 8 seconds when you stop the CPUs from doing work. THe CPU fans cool it right down but have no effect on the GPU temp.

I tried running Speedfan and it shows the CPU fans at 36,000 RPM or something like that when at low speed and GPU fan at only 675 RPM. I do not know if the SpeedFan program is sensing things correctly or not.

I am not sure that there is a separate fan for the Nvidia go 7600 GPU or not on this. It is not in a location on the mother board where you can see it unless you totally disasemble it. The maintenance manual does not say anything about it other than that there is a different motherborad for 256 or 512 MB GPU/video. But if it has a thermal pad and sync it must be messed up to always be running hot like that.

I will have to see what HP says. Sounds like this on will be going back for repair also. That will make 2 laptop computers and 3 repairs since getting the original one at the end August. Total time using any of them is about 2 months in the 4 months we have owned it. The dv9000z was failing for other reasons and sent in for repair twice from Oct 28 to Dec 6th. Then they decided to replace it since they could not fix it after two trys.

This dv9000t was ordered new as a replacement to the dv9000z and took almost 3 weeks to get. Got it Dec 22nd and has had this GPU heat and speed issue from day one. So it needs to be fixed.

Hopefully some day I will have one that works properly. I kind of hate laptops at this point. I believe that this could be a good one if it did not have the heat issue.

Next time I will buy the laptop locally and not via the web. Having to ship it somewhere makes it slow even though it is a "overnight" shipment paid by HP it ends up waiting to be repaired or for parts. If I had bought it locally I could have had a loaner during the repair and not been without a laptop for 2 plus months. Live and learn.

 

I know that feeling.

I suspect you found your answer when you discovered the high GPU temp and as much of a PITA as it might be to return yet another one, there's no reason for you to do HP's job for them.

They say "third time's a charm". Here's hoping your next nb is up to the task and the rest of the year treats you well.

 

Wilbee,

Return the unit ASAP and demand a new machine.

Either that.... or take the unit apart yourself and reapply thermo paste to the GPU.

PS: What "local" places are going to give you a loaner for 2 months? Mom + Pop operation?...


Oh, one more thing, before you send it in for "repair" if that is your only option... read thru the link in my sig on tips to do BEFORE sending the machine in for "repair"...


.

.

 

tomshardware.com had a test of a similar set up to yours and couldn't get the Intel setup to perform as well until drivers were updated. YMMV.

 

While that is good general advice (to update the drivers) the OP has I think already done so.... and the GPU temps seem to be on the high side, indicating a mis-applied thermo-pad between the gpu and the heatsink... a bad gpu, fan, etc.
Could also be a defective heatpipe..

Without re-reading thru all the above by the OP again, the OP has run a "restore", updated all the drivers and seems to be covering all the bases on the software end of the problem. The problem is appearing once the unit had warmed up, the OP mentioning that he let the dv9000t sit turned off for a while (20 minutes) and then tested it quickly after boot.

Op stating the GPU temp was 76C 3 minutes after boot.
the first test of 3dmark03 "wings of fury" did 8600 frames for the test, and then once the unit got up to "temp", he could only get 4600 when hot which points towards the gpu throttling back due to heat.

.

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For what's it worth, I have a setup similar to yours, 9000t with same cpu type/speed and memory, same GPU with 512mb and mine idles at 63c and hits about 69c when running latest games (including fear).

Zany

 

Thanks Zanydog that really helps. The AMP that we are trying to replace this with ran at 60-68C as well.

This Intel based unit boots at 64C and 6 minutes later after running Wings of Fury test (first test of 3dmark03) it gets to 104C. Have had it go to 114C in other cases.

The FAN only clicks up 1 setting during that first test as the CPUs are not hot (verified with an intel test itat) they stay cool. Just the GPU Nvidia graphics is getting real hot real fast.

If I run no tests and just let it sit it will go to about 96C at rest. It will also fall down to that after running a test. But that is way too high as it is 2 clicks into the red zone and graphics performance sucks at that temp. About 1/3 or that at 70C or below based on frame rates.

I placed an HP support call. They wanted me to re-image the disk (already did that), update BIOS (did that too) also updated everything else it said was out of date. It still all gives same slow hot result. They are going to have a specialist call me within a day or 2.

I really think they forgot the paste on the thermo pad. The GPU does not have it's own pad just a heat sync that attaches to a metal bar that sits on the GPU and the heat sync sits beside the fan and sucks some air over it from the left side as the fan runs. I even tried blowing more air in at it with an external USB fan. It helped cool it a little but when you run a Graphics test it goes hot still. I have had it up to 116C once.

Also had it reboot twice in about 10 minutes use when it gets that hot.
104C is 219F (could boil water on that GPU chip). One time it mentioned the video driver had a thread hung problem and it recommended reducing the grahics optimizations. I am running default on anti aliasing or anything that would cause it to push harder.


Thanks guys for the help.

Anyone with this same unit got a 3dmark03 result to share?
I saw one posted and mentioned earlier but it was an early unit and had less memory on the GPU and a different screen.

 

If I could keep it cool I think it would run well. THe first test in 3dmark03 does well while it is cold. It beat the AMD unit but it also gets hot with just that first test.

It did 10,600 frames during the test starting at 64C ending at 104C
Then a re-run at 96C starting gives 4600.
At high temps I have gotten even less.

So I think it would do even better than 10,600 fames if I could get it to stay at 70C or less.

The AMD unit gets 8088 for a total score on 3dmark03.
This intel unit with high temps gets 3026 and when real hot gets 1202.


No way am I taking this apart. You have to pull literally everyhthing to get the motherboard out and gain access to the heat sync and GPU. Will need to send it back. But right now HP is saying that it is the fasted unit they sell and that it will get hot when running. I said yes but not that hot. The CPUs are fine just the GPU gets hot.


Will see what happens.

 

I am getting the same problem with my DV9000t. I also bought the dv9000t with the T7200, 2GB, 512MB Go7600 and the Ultrabright LCD. I installed Linux (FC6) on it immediately after I got it. The first few weeks I didn't notice any problem, but now the system shuts down whenever I use some CPU-intensive programs. I don't use the laptop for games, so I assume that my GPU-load is rather light (though the new 3D-Desktop features may put pull some graphic load).

It appears that the thermal connection of the CPU is falling apart. I found another thread "forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/646206.html" with a similar problem. This seems to be a genuine problem with this model.

Wilbee - Could you resolve this problem with HP? How?

cheers,
Werner

 

(Wilbee is my son -oldhpguy we are talking about the same laptop.)

I am at the end of my wits. Not anywhere to go except to HP escalations which is not helping.

4 months into trying to get HP to fix this dv9000z or t and it is still broke! All under escalations. All with me having a 3 day turnaround Accidental protection plan too. The last 3day turn around took from Jan 8th to Feb 15th to turn around! What is that 5 weeks?

It all started in Oct with some issues with a dv9000z probably caused by a hard hit. They tried fixing it two different times and gave up and sent it back to me. That second time they forgot to put the left hinge screws in which made it totally unusable. It had ground issues then and would not run until I put in some screws in the old unit. So then they ordered me a dv9000t to replace it.

The dv9000t I got was around dec 22nd. It was good except it overheats in the GPU. If you do rightclick to get to Nvidia display you can see the GPU temp in C. It should be at 60 to 75C for most use. My GPU goes to 112C and up to 123C. Just at idle is is at 94C. During thiis time the CPU temps are cool at 40C so fan is low or occasional next speed up.

The issue is at that high of a GPU heat the graphics on this one with the 512 MB memory option for the Nvidia 7600 gets real slow. The 3dmark03 comes in at 2800 to 3000 instead of 8600-8900 like it should. The old AMD ran at 8850 in 3dmark03 about 3X better! The GPU is cooled by a heat sinc that gets air sucked over it by the CPU fans.

So still under escalation at HP they had me send the new one back to memphis to repair it. this makes repair number 3. But laptop number 2. It was there for more than a month (5 weeks as mentioned earlier), waiting on a heatsync pad for the GPU or for a new GPU or for a new motherboard (they never said). Just got it back on Feb 15th. They said "We identified an issue with your System Board Components as a result we replaced it and it is now in wrking order." Ah yes it worked when I gave it to them and it works now but it still gets HOT! And is real slow and has bad graphic frame rates.

I tested it and it still gets hot. Real Hot. They did not fix anything. They may have replaced something but not fixed it. It is still real slow. i can not believe this. Just turning it on makes the Nvidia GPU go to 90+C. Fixed, yeah right. The trim is now ajar as they did not put it back together correctly near the left hinge.

For 4 months I have been trying to get a laptop that will work without an issue. It is always something. I wish I had not bought it online then I could have returned it to a local shop for repair. Having to ship it sucks. The containers they provide to ship it back in are too small for the 17" screen version and half the time it comes out of the foam and dings the side which eventually causes pixel loss on the LCD. That happened on the dv900z after the two repairs.

I have the dv9000t with 2 GHZ core duo, 2 GB memory, 512 MB graphics 7600card, dual disk drives, 17" monitor with the higher resolution. Basicalyl the best config you can get.

Can someone with the same config run 3dmark03 for me and see what they get for a 3dmark? Please specify your monitor and components so I know whether it is exactly the same or not.

What are your Nvida GPU temperatures running?

Frustrated.... big time.

Anyone want to buy a real nice dv9000t foot warmer????

 

here is an old timer trick to Dx heat related failures. You need a couple cans of compressed air with their plastic straw tube to direct the flow.

Fire up the system with the keyboard removed (still attached to the cable of course. Let the system start. Then turn the can of air upside down. When in this position the "air" comes out liquid. You can use that to blow controlled blasts of coolant either into the cooling fan or directly onto the GPU. This should lower the temp. If you see the performance increase as you control the GPU temp then for your peace of mind you have proven heat related failure. It might be another matter to explain this to some 3rd world inexperienced tech. That is the biggest short comming of consumer system tech support...lack of experience with real hardware problems.

You might go through a couple cans of air running the test to your satisfaction but it will work. Just do not saturate the GPU with coolant the idea is to cool the processor not freeze it. The coolant will not damage the system at all but you still do not want to go spraying it all over the inside of the system.

This is actually a FUN way to fiddle with system performance. It also works for flaky RAM modules or any other device that you suspect of overheating.

One more thing... DON'T STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE COOLANT STREAM IT WILL FREEZE YOUR FINGERS POSSIBLY CAUSING FROST BITE got that? hehehehe...though a tiny blast if you are curious is sorta neat... Seriously thought, just be careful, it really have cause pain or worse...

Best of luck...

 

Please see thread on "Overclocking a dv9000t Core 2 Duo (t5500 1.6) " page one for some more about this and for some screen images of it hot.