nVidia Class Action Fairness Hearing is Tomorrow - Almost time to make a claim!

March 14th we respond to the papers we recieved last night then a hearing before the Judge on the 28th

 

Then read Square Trade Pg. 4: Netbooks in the first 12 months have a failure rate 20% more than an entry level laptops and nearly 40% more than Premium laptops.
My spec. sheet for my TX1327CL says it is a notebook-Tablet PC.

Asus spec. sheet Say's it's a Net-Tablet PC.

A Netbook is not a notebook.
Why would we want an Item that has a higher failure rate ?

 

It probably still has a failure rate lower than a TX1000, just looking at ebay, nearly all of them are for parts for repair with the same issue...I bet the tx1000 failure rate is probably near 100% lol except for those with a TL-56 processor

 

The T101MT-EU 37 xxx seems like a new version of the T101MT. They probably told NVIDIA about it when questioned about stock quantities and such. Seems like a larger hard drive and faster memory, but still single core and designed more for ultra-portability and battery life than for computing power like our Media laptops that also have a convertible tablet feature.

Also, most of the reviews from users and websites say the T101MT doesn't operate very well until you double the ram and install a "real" OS like Home Premium or better.

 

The failure rate is because of the defect that this Class Action is supposed to correct and should not be used to harm Class Members choices of replacements.

 

I posted two comments under the Bagherzadeh declaration. The first provides an in-depth analysis of why I think Bagherzadeh came to an incorrect conclusion. The second is short, and worth quoting here (with typos fixed):

Nowhere in the declaration, does Bagherzadeh state anything to the effect that he thinks that the CQ56 is of “like or similar kind and equal or similar value.” In fact, the words “like” and “value” are not found even in the document! So under what criteria does Nader Bagherzadeh come to the conclusion that the CQ56 “is a reasonable choice for the original laptops under consideration?”​

 

^

better question might be why dr.b did not come up with his own "suitable replacements" and brought them to the table to "confer in good faith" with the "adversary"?

is this a case of the tail wagging the dog?

 

EXACTLY what was on my mind. I read the "experts" reports and it seems they were spoon fed. Additionally I see no reference to the experts prior to jan/11

 

Money talks and the Class walks.

 

OK... I have no idea about the actual Case Law involved here, but after reading the Nvidia response several times in conjunction with “expert” reports and statements, it seems to me that Nvidia is a bit frantic about the very deep hole they are in. Why, because their response is chock- full of emotion, subjective evaluations, and contradictions.

Just a few points before I offer input to JT.

1. “Like or similar kind or equal or similar value”. I think we all spotted the problem right away. Their administration and argument however, is based on “or” when part of the settlement and the legal notices clearly state “and”. Based on Nvidia’s arguments then, (in my opinion) Paragraph 2.6 of the settlement is in itself contradictory and therefore could result in the whole thing being dissolved.

2. Their base characterization of Class Action states that one holistic solution is the standard for class action. I think this is true, but they have agreed to two solutions, one for the Apple and Dell owners and one for HP owners. For HP owners there are two additional sub-solutions bringing the total number of class solutions to three. If three solutions are holistic, then why isn’t 4, 8, or 20.

They say their solution is Holistic but their “expert” solution reeks with reductionism. We all know that the whole is more than the sum of its parts, but they argue otherwise. At your expense, just go buy a card reader, a Bluetooth dongle, and a WebCam and carry them all in your pocket along with all the associated cables... No problem... says their expert along with all his other subjectively undermining exceptions.

3. Their stated interpretation of “Value” is supposedly Holistic to the class but value is greater to Apple & Dell owners because their computers are repaired while large numbers of HP owners are subjected to economy replacement computers whose value has been artificially limited to the median value of those individual Apple & Dell repairs. How is that holistic?

4. Operating Systems. This is a little one, but Nvidia tried to make such a huge deal about Operating systems. The problem is that Windows 7 is little more than Vista SP3. Vista, as of SP2, is identified as Windows version 6.0.6002 while Windows 7 with SP1 is v6.1.7601. Additionally, the effected computer dates range from Mar 2006 to Apr 2009 (37 production months). Vista was released Nov 2006 (8 months into the defective production range). Given equal average production months, this means that about 79% (8/37) of the effected computers likely came with Vista (the early version of Win 7) and that the other 21%, though delivered with XP (Win v5.1.2600 as of SP3), were likely classified as Vista Capable (as were many in the early DV2000, DV6000, & DV9000 line) along with their 1st generation dual-core processors. Point: The step from Vista to Win 7 is evolutionary, not revolutionary as they describe, and the majority of software that runs on Win 7 also runs on Vista, which was the delivery operating system for the vast majority of the effected computers.

-------

Moore’s Law, the useful life of notebooks, Nvida selected the replacements while Milberg offered none…I could go on and on. There are a bunch of folks here more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am, but in the cooperative spirit of group-sourcing... perhaps something written here will get your gears turning. If it does, post it on JT’s Fair Nvida Settlement page.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
Isn’t that a song... I bet Batman knows it?

 

I wish I could help more with the crowd sourcing, but I'll be out of town for the next two weeks. Looks like everything is in good hands anyway, so keep it up.

I'll be checking in occasionally, but won't be online with any regularity during the interim because...

My portable is inoperative.

 

Too bad you're leaving... but check back when you can. Everyone has a different perspective and with that brings different insights. Have a good trip though.... minus a portable.

In my late night reading, I just noticed something else I would consider relatively important. Their expert used the oldest of the class notebooks to make his comparison and determination. That in itself should provide some level of skepticism don’t you think? Like…how can a 2006 model be selected as representative when models go through to 2009?

 

The thing I find so funny is, not once do any of their docs say NETBOOK all say "notebook". huge line_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Between them.

 

He was also referring to well use"useful life" and out of warranty.
my wireless started acting up at only 3mths., and went completely out by 6mths. Hp denied it had any "hardware" problems that they were "software/drivers" because I upgraded to ultimate.

 

Frankly, Its amazing what they've done and are doing.

 

If you didn't already, you should post that for JT on the Fair Settlement site.

 

I haven't read through all the declarations, but do any of them include the full story on the CQ50? One of them (perhaps Milberg's or Oreck's) said something to the effect that the CQ50 was inadvertently published prematurely to the website. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that the Settlement Administrator didn't just make up this information. Who told the Settlement Administrator that the CQ50 was the replacement laptop? Why did the replacement laptop only change after Ted Frank got involved? Did their experts sign off on the CQ50? At why point did their experts get involved - prior to the selection of the CQ50, prior to the CQ56, or after the CQ56? I think this is important because it will be even easier to prove that their experts are biased if they said that the CQ50 is equivalent to a dv9000.

 

Here they go again. This is typical when lawyers get backed into a corner. They go out and recruit some “expert” with impressive credentials longer than my…..arm. My guess is he is well over 70 years old. Nothing against seniors, I am almost there myself. Somewhere in this “experts” impressive career, common sense went south, if he had any to begin with.
I wish I could ask Mr. Peddie a few questions. Like: Did you ever use an Entertainment high end Laptop, with a 17” screen? Have you ever used a Compaq CQ56-115DX.
If they were seeking the truth about these computer comparisons, they would be better served finding a reputable computer tech with A+ certification. Someone who actually has “hands on” experience and has actually uses, maintains, tests and repairs laptops. Someone that knows the difference between an Entertainment 17” high end laptop, and a 15” low end.
This expert claims we can go get “dongle” adapters for the extras, webcam, Bluetooth, etc. What am I supposed to do about the screen size, carry a 17” monitor in my bag? Hmmmm…..Then I will need a power supply to power the monitor. Gee, maybe he is on to something….. COMMON SENSE!?

 

If we're forced to take ~$370 laptop (that's the price Nvidia is claiming), then why not give us something like:

HP G62-340US Notebook PC

It's the HP G62-340US on sale for $379.99 at office max. It has a AMD Athlon II Dual-Core Processor P340, lightscribe, a media card reader, and a webcam. Plus, there's the added bonus that it's an actual HP.

This is what makes no sense to me...if you're going to try to sway a judge with a price tag, then why are we getting garbage for that price when something like this is available for $10 more?

 

Don't forget about the External Optical Drive they want us to buy and try to fit in our hip pocket.

 

I think you forgot to read the part that Say's:

Ships in: DISCONTINUED

 

Actually I think my blackberry has more features than the CQ-56. It has bluetooth, wifi and a camera.

 

thanks god i found this website, i got tx1120us i paid 1.449 for it plus insurence 300 dollars for 5 years .. first 1 was fine then i had to take it to get it fixed couple times then my warenty expires now its sits in my room collecting dust first question the due date for claming is in 10 days ? seconds should i clamin one of the pc's that they giving or wait till last day? 3rd i got mail last for website that i should go and claim comp .. and when i tryed to log in its says wrong clamin number what should i do?

 

This is a long thread, and I've read through most of the 120+ pages. I may have missed some if the details of the discussions, so if this has already been explained, please excuse my redundancy...

Has the fact that the Class Notice directly states that an HP manufactured computer will be provided as a replacement for all HP owners/class members been addressed by the court since the exact replacement models have been chosen? It's funny that neither of the offered replacements are HP models, and the class notice clearly specifies that we should expect HP models as replacements.

In the Class notice it states 3 times that the replacement laptop will be an HP model. Twice in section 9, once in section 10, it states...
9. What does the settlement provide?
"The replacement HP notebook computer will be of similar kind and value as their eligible malfunctioning notebook computer"

Maybe these proclaimations were nullfied in some of the later court decisions, but it still doesn't make sense that this is happening.

Not that an HP replacement will be ideal, but if we were able to force this issue, then it might be easier to equate the models that we originally purchased with an available model from the same manufacturer. But by offering replacments from different manufacturers, it makes finding an equivalent replacement model a little less sraight-forward.

 

Excellent point; it does mention that, but it seems Nvidia and Milberg are trying to claim that a Compaq is an HP...

In my opinion, this could be a point of attack. We want an HP branded notebook, not a Compaq.

 

If you own a Cadillac, and they don't build the parts even though they have to guarantee them for TEN years, Do they give you a Chevrolet and say " That's Life" See you in the fall if I see you at all. There should be a law that they ( the computer manufacturers ) have to supply parts for ten years like the auto makers.

 

If Toyota has a recall on 2007 cars for a bad anti lock brake system and they replace it with a new updated system. Do they say to you " your car is done but you owe us $600.00 because the unit installed originally cost $800.00 and the new updated unit cost $1,400.00". I don't think so.

 

Keep in mind, this technically isn't a recall. Nvidia isn't claiming any wrongdoing or blame for what happened...as despicable as it sounds.

 

Don't you kinda think Milberg went after the wrong company ?
If you own a Dodge P.U. with a Cummins diesel engine and it blows up, you don't sue Cummins, you sue Chrysler who made the P.U.

 

Absolutely right.
The lawsuit should have indicted HP and HP alone.
Most people do not care what is inside their HP - what their care is :
1. they paid $$ for a HP finished product
2. the product failed for millions of people
3. HP repeatedly failed to fix the problems
4. HP lied and denied the product had a design flaw though they knew about the numerous failures and any engineer with 2cents worth can zero-in on the root cause.
It is HP who should be paying for all this.
Behind the scenes HP can file their own lawsuit and get $$ from NVidia.
Perhaps the lawyers thought it was harder to win a HP lawsuit as it
has deep pockets and also with HP agreement with Milberg it was
easier and quicker for Milberg to win the suit against Nvidia
and so they chose this route.

 

NVIDIA's pocket is pretty green right now, They just won 1 Billion dollars from Intel. So why try to give us machines with Intel GPU's ?

 

I would have been more than happy of HP had recalled their laptop and put in a new part to fix it for good.
Almost every part of my laptop was replaced at least once except the keyboard
- ie. motherboard, LCD, external power supply, battery, hard disk and that too after first year because i paid staples for extended warranty
- none of these fixes worked and i hardly used the laptop for a TOTAL of 3 weeks because of the problems stated in the lawsuit
and now it is dead and will not even boot!

Dont compare toyota recall to this - toyota was wrong - but HP is extremely wrong in not juse seeling bad laptops
but also by consistently telling lies about this problem to us that they have no mass failures and there is no design issue in the laptop.

No right minded person buying a new laptop will agree to buy a single core cpu today instead of a multi-core cpu if all other specs are same.
Milberg should not have accepted the single-core model as replacement for dual-core laptops and it is now becoming clear they may have some
collusion with HP to cheat out us plaintiffs a second time. Very disheartening.

 

It seems to me that the best place to show a non-genuine good faith effort between Nvidia and Millberg toward the class and a blatant hijacking of the settled terms would be to focus on the HP tablet computer.

From what I have read... the declarations from Nvidia, Millberg and the "experts" do a HUGE gloss over of the details of the tablet when comparing it to the "netbook". So much time was spent justifying the compaq as a "similar kind", but hardly anything was said (that couldn't be easily refuted) about the netbook as a "similar kind" to the tablet.

I made a youtube video awhile back demonstrating Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit and showing the scores in Windows 7. I played a 1080p video MKV file as well as 1080p youtube video and they played like butter.... YouTube - HP laptop - demonstrate video playback.

How easy would it be to show that the Asus couldn't play 1080p on youtube?

I also demonstrate Photoshop CS5, Microsoft Office 2010 and show the power of this computer to multitask different things.

Basic things could be effectively demonstrated to show that a netbook is not anywhere near similar in kind and value... And that would make it easier to break down the botched analysis for the notebook.

- A netbook can barely play youtube videos or a 720p video. Where the HP tablet could play them easily and even a 1080p movie because of the processing power.

- The tablet an integrated optical drive with lightscribe, the netbook is sans optical.

- Dual core processor

- S-video and vga out

- Expansion port

- Pcmcia card

Anyway... that's my 2 cents... Yes expecting people to accept a 15" laptop in place of their 17" is crappy, but I think that's a concession they are expecting us to accept regardless and they will fight tooth and nail to make that part stick. But if you can expose one of the glaring holes it should and would make it easier to break down their logic to the court.

We need to stick to the glaring differences of where these machines are lacking when it comes to usability. What can our class computers do that the proposed replacements can't.

ie... HDMI output... firewire input... memory card reader... Ability to run specific software which requires multi tasking.

Hope this is helpful...

 

They got their share of $13,000,000.00 though.

 

Cazwell.. That´s a great point. Single core processors can only get so much done. Half the amount of cache that my dv9000 series laptop had...

I don´t know. This is looking pretty transparent, if they(nVidia, Milberg ´our defense?´) only had something behind their arguments. I wouldn´t be posting in this thread. These people are professionals? They have licenses to practice law?? What is the world coming to, or ending?

That´s not even mentioning the lack of features.
- Firewire is still a must for me.
- The 17¨ screen was a large factor in me buying the model I did
- What about the hours on the phone with HP?
- All of this time and effort, how are we going to be compensated for this?

What about customer satisfaction? I haven´t even brought customer service into the picture. Just about every time I called HP and tried asked for help. I asked the question, ¨Why didn´t anyone send us an email, or letter telling us there was a program to have the problem fixed for free?¨ We registered our product like we should, we paid for the product?

 

The response seems to state several times that if we were to be successful, the immediate result would be the throwing out of the existing settlement, the need for a new trial, and ultimately many more months of delay before anyone gets a replacement laptop (of any kind).

Is this true? If so I am wondering how many will decide to just take the crap they are handing out now, rather than wait/endure another slew of months with the hope of a fair settlement. It looks like they are basically trying to run out the clock on the psyhche of many (at this point) highly frustrated consumers.

The technical claims in the response are outrageous, however this question about what our "success" on the 28th would mean long-term is what's been pressing in my mind since 2am the other night...

 

Netbooks vs. laptops: What's right for your needs?

There is a nice table of features also. Go to the link and check it out. This is from HP and it compares the Mini which has mostly the same specs as the Asus T101MT.

 

You guys all have great points. The problem is that Milberg and Nvidia don’t really care about any of that stuff. What they did was figure the median price of repair for the Apple & Dell notebooks and then looked for that “value” (meaning money) as holistic to the entire class. So Nvidia’s starting point was about $300.00 (probably discounted to $225 for quantity). Nvidia offered the “replacements” based on that criteria to Milberg and Milberg totally supported their assumption as fair to the HP class.

The ‘experts” didn’t go look for replacements, they were provided the replacement by Nvidia... and the rest is about as transparent as glass. I don’t know about the case law, but I’d guess that Ted is going to have prove that while the Apple & Dell owners have been made whole, the HP owners have not (i.e. Apple and Dell owners keep their originally configured notebooks while HP owners get cheap economy de-featured replacements).

Clearly by the Nvidia response language they were rattled, but unless “ and equal or similar value” is sorted out in our favor by Judge Ware, we’re toast.

JMO

 

I don´t believe the statements related to the class settlement being damaged if other computers are changed/added. The case has been officially reopened. This is a clear, hold the presses, something is not right and the court wants to examine what is happening. Red light Stop. The judge may want something enforced here. Correct me if I am wrong. From projects that I have been on before this doesn´t look like a class settlement breaker. The most difficult administrative process, the claims processing closes in two weeks. People will not be able to submit claims after that.

- The evasive nature of Milberg telling us, (I was told) that the model for replacement was still in negotiations. This was when the claims period first opened. I had a question as to what laptop would be a replacement for my 17¨ dv9000. That is why I still submitted my claim and not held off because I did not find this fair. They were still negotiating.... Is that true, woman from Milberg?

There is a 6-8 week delay in shipping the inferior replacements. I hate to put it this way, and they (Millberg) can hold off on ordering the laptops from Walmart and slapping shipping labels on them for shipment to us.

Come now, this is turning out be so much a magic show organized by dishonest people. Look here and while we pull a switcheroo. I hope the judge penalizes them for these actions. Maybe return some of their, ¨adminstrative fees.¨

That sounds so much a ploy to, ¨I need an excuse¨, I need to write something here. More fluff to fill up the space. All they have to do is ship other tablets and notebooks

 

I can see it now. They are reading what we´re typing here and they are saying oh. They´re right. What are we going to do now? How are we going to talk out way out of this one? Ok, Iĺl attack Ted Frank and say that he´s not letting us settle the case. Then we´ll tell people that their computers are old when some of the people didn´t even see a year of use. Then theirs the almost year of ignorance from HP (in my case) that they are going to acknowledge this is a problem. Wait, and wait some more and then we´ll try to use that against you, because you spent hard earned money with us and bought a premium product? At the time these were pretty good machines spec wise. That´s what´s we deserve.
That is not right at all!!
Milberg is a shame, or did I mispell.

 

When I first realized that the cq50/cq56 was the machine I thought to myself. They are still making single core machines? I thought they stopped with the Intel mobile class single cores. ughhh..

 

Completely untrue. The settlement has already been approved; this is a motion to enforce the existing court order. Nothing in the proposed order undoes the settlement.

The briefing regularly makes the mistake of treating our motion as the equivalent of an objection to a proposed settlement. It's hard to believe that attorneys so experienced would make such a basic legal mistake inadvertently; I can only think that they're hoping to confuse me and/or the judge. I'm very encouraged that NVIDIA and Milberg apparently feel they need to resort to such desperate tactics. I'm not fooled, and I strongly doubt the judge will be either.

 

Has anyone received a Compaq CQ56-115DX from the claim settlement yet? I know they said to expect 6 to 8 weeks, but I'm curious if they have sped up the replacement process to try and avoid having to provide "equal value" replacements to as many class members as possible.

If anyone has, perhaps some disparaging comments about the actual end-user experience with the CQ56-115DX would be helpful to the cause.

Ted, would that be useful if and when replacements begin to arrive if the matter has not been laid to rest before they do?

 

The thing is, we have to give our laptops up completely. They can sell the parts (say each LCD screen is ~$60 alone), recycle them, repair them and sell them as refurbished, etc. No where in the notice or settlement itself does is mention a limit on the replacement computer price or a depreciation of value of the defective computers.

You've got it spot on though. They came up with the cheap replacement and found some "experts" to say that they are okay.

The "and equal or similar value" is really "similar in kind AND value" according to the notice. Nvidia told their experts that it was "Like Or Similar Kind Or Equal Or Similar Value".

 

I am in the middle of making my claim. Need advise...Should I submit it online or mail it in? I have my receipt but it is really faded, I have saved it and made it as dark as I can. You can read the date,the number on the computer and see it is from Best Buy. Have most done it online or sent it in the mail? Also it ask about repairs, my computer was repaired a total of three times by HP so it didn't cost me anything. Should I mention that?

 

They don't ever really dispute that the CQ-56 can't do what we said it can't do. They've been hanging their hat on their interpretation of the settlement and their misleading attempt to portray the procedural posture as one of a challenge to the settlement approval.

I'd be very surprised if NVIDIA mails CQ-56 machines before the judge rules. If they were feeling confident about their chances before the judge on the issues that are actually before the judge, we wouldn't be seeing the ad hominem tactics or the strawman arguments for settlement approval.

 

Thanks Ted! Wondering...not a legal point obviously, but didn’t you find it interesting that the expert notebook comparisons were to the oldest notebooks in the HP class instead of the mean. Would make a lot of difference… but of course they knew that.

No response required.

 

My receipt was also badly faded, but I made a photocopy and darkened it up a bit prior to scanning. It was still faint, but legible. It was accepted that way. I would submit it online, rather than using snail mail. You get a confirmation number for the submission online, you can print it and/or save it to PDF, and you can call to confirm they received your claim if there is any doubt in your mind.

I would be more concerned about the paper mail being lost than I would the electronic submission. There are too many human and environmental factors involved with postal mail to expect a better outcome by mailing it.

Edit: If the repairs did not cost you anything, you would be wasting your time mentioning it. They don't really care and would not be doing anything at all but for the class action. Telling them is tantamount to "casting pearls before swine." Save your angst for the NBR forum where you are surrounded by class members that can and will appreciate your comments.

 

Good! Your comments are encouraging. I think they should be worried, especially if there was any degree of impropriety in their selection of replacement systems versus technical ignorance. Their posture against being challenged leads me to believe the former versus the latter.

Have a nice Sunday evening.

 

Do you think Nvidia shot themselves in the foot when all of their declarations used the phrase "Like Or Similar Kind Or Equal Or Similar Value" instead of a "replacement HP notebook" " similar in kind AND value"?