nVidia Class Action Fairness Hearing is Tomorrow - Almost time to make a claim!

Netbooks, like the HP Mini, are designed to give you an easy, portable way to access the Internet with built-in Wi-Fi.1 The small, lightweight design makes netbooks a great choice when traveling, but they're not intended for mainstream productivity and media-rich applications. Netbooks are best suited as a companion to your everyday PC.

Netbooks vs. laptops: What's right for your needs?

 

I guess an expert wrote this.

 

Wow the HP mini allows you to install 3GB RAM. Atom Processor.

No touchscreen, ehh...
Does the screen swivel around so you can write on it? oops. My mistake.. Not thinking here..

 

Received an Email from my state attorney general - No help here!

Dear Gerald:

Thank you for contacting my office.

The Consumer Protection Section has reviewed your complaint. Unfortunately, my office is unable to pursue your matter because a court has already rendered judgment. You may wish to contact a private attorney to determine what civil remedies may be available to you. If you do not have an attorney, your local bar association or legal aid may be able to provide you with a referral.

Again, thank you for contacting my office. If we can ever be of assistance to you in the future, please feel free to contact us.


Very respectfully yours,


MIKE DEWINE
Ohio Attorney General

 

Ted made the news again.

Dealpolitik: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of Class Actions - Deal Journal - WSJ

 

Yep, pretty much an exact response as mine gave me. Almost word for word... Pretty sad they won't at least lend a hand.

 

Thanks for that link shasta7.

Is it just me or is following this insanely long thread becoming addictive?

I think that excellent article you linked to distills many important aspects of this sham into an interesting and informative read.

A more impelling twist would shed some light on the Milberg crime bosses though... hahaha, literally!

I'm also a class member hoping for a fair settlement. I'm amazed how legalized crime like this is so prominent in America.

Business as usual in this wonderland of mass consumption I guess.

Wait, I smell something burning...

 

One might Think I have a Vested Interest in the outcome!

 

Ted Frank posted 2 more documents - one from Bagherzadeh and one from Sara Laratro. As usual, Bagherzadeh's declaration is full of holes::

"The issue of original units’ slower memory was not raised by others and in my opinion is crucial for providing a technically correct assessment of the differences."

• Okay, so you claim that it's critical, but how can you possibly quantify what effect this has without running any benchmarks?

​

"For those applications that have been parallelized, the dual core will be faster, but as they say your mileage may vary depending on the original that is being evaluated."

• 
  He keeps wording this like just a few applications can take advantage of multiple cores.
• Moreover, he keeps forgetting that a computer runs more than one process at a time.
• Dr. Zilles stated the following and Bagherzadeh did not dispute it: "Many modern uses of a laptop will take advantage of this superior parallel processing performance. The Windows operating system (like all modern operating systems) regularly uses background processes and multitasking; activities like playing audio files, virus scanners, firewall protection, and other system activities can be effectively performed in the background by a second core. Furthermore, many popular programs have been written to take advantage of multiple threads, from video games to Photoshop to internet browsers like Google’s Chrome and Internet Explorer 8, and the number of parallelized programs is increasing over time."

​

Therefore, for those class members that have slower dual cores than 2.2 GHz, such as Mike Freeman, the replacement CQ56 should be considered even a better solution, as far as CPU performance numbers are concerned.

• Wait, I thought he just got done explaining how the dual-core CPU will be faster for everything but sequential programs? I pulled up the same data source that Bagherzadeh used (oh, you didn't realize he didn't actually run any of the benchmarks himself?) at notebookcheck.net for the TL-52, that I'm assuming Mike Freeman owns. I believe this is one of the slowest Pavilion laptops, but it still beats the V140 in 3 of the 4 non-single-threaded tests (v140 vs. TL-52 - winner marked with *, singled-threaded tests in red):
  • 3DMark06 - 989.5 vs 1190*
    [*]SuperPi 1M - 35.2* vs 55.2
  • SiSoft Sandra Dhrystone - 7830 vs 14752*
  • SiSoft Sandra Whetsone - 7120* vs. 6515
    [*]Cinebench Single - 1912* vs. 1324
  • Cinebench Multiple - 1912 vs. 2554*

  ​
  The CQ56 loses in 3 of the 4 benchmarks to one of the slowest processors in the class, so the CQ56 should be considered "an even better solution?"

​

"The fact that Windows 7 takes advantages of multi-core CPUs has been confirmed by others"

• No one has argued that Windows 7 doesn't support multi-core CPUs - we're arguing that Windows Vista (and even XP) support multi-core CPUs. Vista's support of multi-core processors is evidenced by the Cinebench benchmark for the TL-64 (Click on the benchmark tab), where the TL-64 was 1.94 times faster when using both cores [note that the "experts" conveniently forget to include this test in their results]. These numbers mean that the TL-64 is 86.5% faster than the V140 (3567 vs. 1912.5).
• What is the relevance of this statement? The CQ56 does not have multiple cores - so the fact that Windows 7 uses multi-cores better is immaterial

​

"CQ56 replacement unit is shipped with Windows 7 and for a class member to have the newer operating system for their originals requires out of pocket expense of anywhere from 100 to 200 dollars."

• Some class members (at least some of those whose computers worked long enough) already purchased Windows 7 (I'm running Windows 7 Professional), so this isn't an upgrade for everyone.

​

Contrary to Dr. Zilles declaration, a mix of benchmarks is the only way to evaluate performance differences between the single core V140 and the dual core TL-64.

• And by a "mix of benchmarks", you mean selecting ones that support your statement, and excluding ones that don't (e.g. excluding the multi-core Cinebench benchmark mentioned above while listing Super Pi 3 times)
• If he is going to make the claim that the DDR2-800 RAM in some of the originals "could be two times slower or more" than the DDR3-1066 RAM in the CQ56, then he better have some data to back that up. Moreover, if he is going to say that the speed of the RAM in the CQ56 offsets the faster CPU in the TL-64, then he better have some data show that.

​

The presented benchmarks support my position that if an application is parallelized or the operating system can take advantage of executing multiple applications, the TL-64 will do better, but for sequential programs the V140 processor, because of its faster memory and front side bus speed will be superior

• In your original declaration, you stated that in the analysis, but your conclusion only states "Given all the benefits of having a new computer, including an overall more powerful machine, the proposed CQ56 should be considered a viable replacement that meets or exceeds nearly all of the specifications of the originals." Your data and analysis certainly didn't show that the CQ56 is more powerful. This was one of our biggest arguments - that your conclusion is non sequitur (props to Ted for the Latin phrase)

​

With Dr. Bagherzadeh, what he doesn't say is as important as what he does say. From his original declaration, "class members could benefit greatly from having a new computer that is faster than their original computers for certain applications." He qualifies his statement with "for certain applications." He could have just as easily (and more accurately) said, "class members will be harmed from having a new computer that is slower than the original computer for certain applications." His definition of certain applications is "sequential," but he offers no examples of normal cpu-intensive applications that are sequential. On the other hand, see Dr. Zilles statement for examples of normal applications that are NOT sequential. And, no, calculating Pi to 32 million digits is not a normal application.

 

Great article, shasta7. Thanks for the link.

 

Also from Dr. Nader B.'s reply...

"Windows 7 is a far better product than the preceding ones, since it is more stable with much better features. Since the latest operating system from Microsoft was Vista when many of the class members purchased their units, they received a less desirable operating system. The fact that Windows 7 is much better than Vista has been confirmed by many IT experts, including our own department at UC, Irvine, since they never switched to Vista for our campus PCs. Moreover, those class members that had XP running on their original laptops, will benefit from having the new Windows 7 on their proposed CQ56 platform, since Microsoft support for XP will end by 2014."

The Asus that he also claims is a 'better' replacement than my Tx1000 comes with Windows 7 Starter Edition. Windows 7 Starter has no useful features and my current Windows XP Professional is feature-rich in comparison. So if I want to stay with a convertible tablet PC, I'm screwed with the lack of power, lack of optical drive and other devices and a severly crippled Windows 7 OS that is offered in the model of Asus they propose.

 

I was looking at some reviews of the CQ56-115DX over on bestbuy.com, and one reviewer hit the nail on the head. He said:

What can I say... It's a laptop. Not sure why people buy the real big expensive ones unless they have special needs for them. If you want something for a quick internet, camera, email, and things like that, this is perfect!

**I can only assume that by "camera", the reviewer meant for uploading and storing photos from a digital camera, not that the computer has a webcam.

See there Milberg... It doesn't take an "expert" to see that a one-size-fits-all computer doesn't work for those of us that purchased our computer for specific tasks that go beyond what the CQ56-115DX can handle.

 

Very good article. Althought strange. I tried to post a reply and was not able to.

 

I couldn't post a reply either, it just said duplicate post - weird because I never posted a comment.

No CAPTCHA either with anonymous comments...

 

Yes, that is what I meant.

 

Thought I'd drop by to inform everyone that my Dell Latitude 'repair' lasted two weeks. Got it back on March 11, it craped out about an hour ago. Still under warranty until April 26th, luckily.

 

Was that the repair you got through the class action, or the extension Dell provided before the settlement?

 

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. Sounds like Dell and Apple owners may have as much to complain about as the HP owners. I assumed that the settlement provided a replacement gpu that was manufactured differently than the originals. Again, with this case I'm learning that "assuming" is not the way to go. It is really a crime that these gpu's were not actually recalled.

 

Yes, repair due to the class action. But I would not still be under warranty if not for the extension!

 

Dell simply changed out the MLB with a refurbished one, same Nvidia chip, only difference was the chip was/is now epoxied to the board.

Google 'red epoxy, gpu'

 

Neither does the CQ56 have a card reader to get the photos from the camera to the computer...oh, well .........

 

It seems to me that Windows has been parallel processing for the last several years and would be able to take advantage of the dual-core processor, and thus be faster than the single-core in question.
It also seems that Dr. B is trying really hard to make up vague sentences.
It almost seems like he is trying to make a hypothetical case here, even though we have real PCs and real operating systems.
He never once uses the real factors in the equation. He just uses his little variables and states that the answer could be this if one would use these variables (even though they don't exist in our context).

Again, he likes using variables for static facts. We ARE using and operating system that takes advantage of executing multiple applications. Why question that? I can only assume it is to confuse.

More like $50 to $75 for an in-place upgrade to Windows 7. Windows 7 Starter is a giant jump backwards in functionality to Windows Vista Home Premium that I have on my TX1410us.

This is a bold assumption to make. Do you have a statement from the purchasing dept that this is fact?
Could also be the common business practice of "Jumping" licenses. Microsoft comes out with updates too often for business to pay for new licenses when the old one still works fine. So they "Jump" licenses and update every other time.

Again, Dr. B likes to use these variables that we actually have static facts for.
What speed DDR3 memory is used in the CQ?
What speed DDR2 memory is used in the best original(must use the best since this is a one size fits all).
Now show us benchmarks and see how much faster it really is.

Dr. B is far removed from fact and reality. He lives in a world of theory.
If he would put his foot in the real world just briefly enough to fill in some of those hypothetical variables his report might have actually been useful for the class.

 

So 31 out of 109 communications that Sara Laratro has been tracking have been complaints. Lets see, that's... 28.4% of communications are complaints.

What business runs that ratio of complaints. Not any that are still in business I would think.

 

Maybe they saw how to do the "hair -dryer" fix, wait that couldn't be true,
that fix lasts for a month or more. Man that sucks.

 

Here are some interesting pages from Notebookcheck.net

AMD V-Series V140 Notebook Processor - Notebookcheck.net Tech

Intel Atom N570 Notebook Processor - Notebookcheck.net Tech

 

Demand to dell that they replace the laptop. If it has been repaired over three times and in warranty this is their policy. Just ask to have it escalated when you call in. If this does not work email these guys and explain your situation. [email protected]
They replaced both of my e1700's this way. Received 1 e1705 and one xps unit under the replacement.


ATT:sbnwks

 

Windows 7 is only better than Vista because they (Microsoft) updated Vista, improved the feathers and renamed it.The same for Win 3.1,Win 95, Millennium and XP. They ALREADY have service Pack 1 for an update to win7 so I guess even win7 isn't as perfect as they thought to be. It's all about MONEY. Since I updated my Vista to service pack 2, I haven't had any freeze ups so they improved that part of it. As far as feathers go, Microsoft could add features to Vista but why would they when they can sell Win7. Everything in this WORLD improves as the models go from year to year. Technology improves the products just as the machinery to produce the products improve.

 

Dr. B's statements anger me to no end.

I had Windows 7 on my dead HP laptop.

He sits and talks in hypotheticals. He says that DDR3 could be twice as fast as DDR2. Guess what, if you look at the speed: DDR2 800MHz vs DDR3 1066MHz.

The dual-core CPU @ 1.6 GHz and 800MHz DDR2 memory still benchmarks higher than the 2.2GHz single core and 1066MHz DDR3.

I love how Nvidia waited until the last few days before the hearing to try to confuse the judge further with their hypothetical situations, which are not material to the actual intended use of the computers...

 

I think that anything coming from a paid expert should be taken with a grain of salt- in any case, not just this one. Milberg and NVIDIA had already chosen the CQ56 and the Asus before Dr. B made his report. They gave him a small sample of the class computers and had him make a comparison (they also gave him a check). Now we get his report and he comes to conclusions that aren't supported by the data. I'm not saying that Dr. B was intentionally deceptive in his report. However, I liken this to bias in scientific research. Dr. B could definately have skewed his argument towards the CQ56 and Asus subconciously, because it's what the lawyers want to hear and the lawyers are being nice to him and giving him money. Okay that is way over-simplified but hopefully my point is clear. This is why we use blinding in scientific research, to eliminate most forms of bias. In this case, they should have let the expert choose the models in the first place, instead of saying "we picked these, now evaluate our choice."

 

Exactly, although I suppose they would argue that you would have no reason to call unless you had a question or complaint. However, they still have not disclosed the number of complaints going to the settlement line. Just for a fun experiment, I called the settlement line to file a complaint about the computers. The lady told me that this was the settlement ordered by the judge (shouldn't Rosenthal have re-educated the people on the phone lines when Mr. Frank brought up this point?) and that there was no way to make a complaint through them. When I asked her a couple of times who I could complain to, she said, "Umm... maybe the lawyers?" However, she could not get me a number, just the same address found on the website. She also told me that they log/record all calls, so these complaints could be counted.

 

Note that the declaration refers to communication since MARCH 3rd! The deadline for the claims period was March 14th...

I sent at least three to six emails to Jeff Westerman (et. al) concerning the quality of this replacement, but most (if not all) were sent prior to March 3rd.

 

Sorry about that. I hoped they will replace a different GPU.

 

Case5:08-cv-04312-JW Document358-2 Filed03/04/11 Page9 of 23

What if I wanted "a more performance oriented computer" and a "unit with tablet features"? Just like the one I originally purchased. I should not have to choose the lesser of two evils. I should receive "a notebook of similar kind AND value".

Can't wait to hear what the Judge says on Monday. Hopefully we will not have to wait too long to hear the Judgement.

 

If we want to compare function (which is what Mr. Peddie suggests) and not just a feature-by-feature comparison, I would have to have BOTH the Asus and the CQ56. The CQ56 for real computing and the Asus for portability. However, even both of these together wouldn't really be equal because both have slower processors and I wouldn't be getting the "package deal" that I had with my tx1410us. It really makes me angry that Mr. Peddie and Dr. B are presuming to tell us why we bought our laptops in the first place... I did not buy it for portability OR for computing power; I bought it for portability AND computing power (once again, I'm not sure these highly-educated lawyers understand the difference between "and" and "or" )

 

Some of the Least Smartest people I know, are the most Intelligent.
In that, if there is a hard way or an easy way to accomplish the same task.
They will inevitably find the Hard way first time every time! :wink:

 

I too, have emailed Milberg 2-3 times and called the settlement number a dozen times to complain about the replacement computer, all prior to March 2011.

 

Sara Laratro's original declaration has details for communications that occurred prior to the March 3rd. I'm not sure if they count each e-mail as a complaint, or if they only record one complaint per claimant.

 

This is wishful thinking. I picked up the TX2 from Best Buy yesterday, and it worked okay for a bit. After I closed the screen and opened it about 10-15 minutes later, the same problem occurred. I went back to Best Buy, told them what happened, mentioned the settlement, but nothing. I was told that their policy is to send the computer and have it repaired multiple times before it can be replaced. I read the policy, and it states:

So this is the third time that it's been sent out; I have one more to go. Each time takes about 2 weeks, so theoretically 4 more weeks before it's replaced. Best Buy has a horrible Black Tie Protection Plan, at least for computers and judging from this experience. I felt compelled to get into an argument and go crazy on them, but then not only would Best Buy have the money that I spent on the computer and the extra protection plan, but they'd also have my sanity.

 

NVIDIA files 2 more declarations, out of turn and without a schedule. So Mr. Frank files 2 more of our own. Very interesting reads. Thanks to all the "researchers" here on the forum that supplied our case with some very incriminating facts about Mr. Peddie.

Center for Class Action Fairness, LLC: Motion made in the NVIDIA GPU class action settlement

 

So Peddie had a dv9700 it died and he said he was "loaned" a hp dv6z, A 1399.00 replacement, cause he had friends at HP.
He complained about the low resolution, the same as the cq56.

NICE

see the base review here: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4991&review=hp+pavilion+dv6+dv6z

Thanks for the heads up TimelyCompensation
peddies review is here: http://jonpeddie.com/reviews/comments/hp_dv6z_laptop

 

Good find, but I'm almost certain Peddie said they LOANED him the DV6 while his was being repaired!

Just make sure they don't get you on a small detail like that, which is easy to miss.

 

Not NVIDIA. Milberg filed those 2 last minute crammers.

Not surprising of their continual reliance on sandbagging strategy.

Considering Milberg's (and Weiss' RECENT) checkered past, you would think they would be more up and up.

 

Let's not forget, that when calling the settlement phone number to complain about the replacement, you are politely informed that they have no complaint department. That there is nothing they can do in regards to handling a complaint. So, how many more complaints have been turned away in frustration and in disbelief?

 

Let's face it; they just don't care. Milberg got its $13 mil, so yeah, mission accomplished as far as they're concerned. To heck with the class they were paid to represent. Leopards don't change their spots, so I don't think we can expect them to start caring any time soon.

 

Ted has already mentioned in his briefing but I wanted to reiterate the NVIDIA and Milberg's BOLD FACED lies by stating their OWN WORDS:

Truth # 12: Doc 256-1 Plaintiff's Memorandum of Points and Authorities in Support of Motion for Final Approval of Settlement(fact check - Doc 256.1, Page 14 through 19 ):

"... Respectfully, the Class settlement would have provided Mr. Anderson -- and any other Class member with a HP Class Computer -- with a new HP notebook of equal or greater value...."

Why is this important? Because Milberg is asking the Court to approve the settlement. This language is presented to Judge Ware to convince him that the settlement is fair and adequate.


Truth # 13: Doc 308 LICHTERMAN IN SUPPORT OF MOTION FOR FINAL APPROVAL OF SETTLEMENT:


12. I have been actively involved in NVIDIA’s efforts to research, select and obtain replacement computers for Class Members who own a Hewlett-Packard (“HP” computer system and whose claims are approved by the administrator. In light of the passage of time and technological advances, the new systems are expected to have similar or better performance than the Class Computers, albeit at a lower cost. HP has helped NVIDIA to identify suitable replacement systems and is likely to help supply NVIDIA with many replacement computers at NVIDIA’s cost.

Why is this important? This time, NVIDIA is pleading with the court to approve the settlement based on their CURRENT settlement language using "similar in kind AND value" that is fair and adequate.

So by claiming the "OR" argument of today, are NVIDIA and Milberg affirming that they INTENTIONALLY mislead the court?

 

We get our Sunday paper ads on Saturday - guess what's going on sale at Best Buy for $299.99? Compaq - Presario Laptop / AMD V-Series Processor / 15.6" Display / 2GB Memory / 250GB Hard Drive - Basic Black - CQ56-115DX

If you guessed our beloved Compaq CQ56-115DX replacement laptops, you'd be correct! At the Best Buy online site, the current price on March 26, 2011 is $379.99. The Compaq CQ56-115DX is noted in the ad as being "Best Buy Exclusive" - perhaps they're referring to the sale price in their Sunday March 27, 2011 ad, as other online retailers have them available as well. I compared the specs to the nVidia settlement specs and the computers appear to be the same machine: http://www.nvidiasettlement.com/pdfs/NVF_ReplacementSpecs.pdf

Perhaps nVidia can just send folks to Best Buy with their dead laptops, a claim voucher for the Compaq replacement, and save some green on pesky 2-way shipping charges...

 

What really makes no sense here is that there is already a system in place at HP to replace defective systems (lemons) What HP does ( same as dell) is to take component by component comparisons and the rule is that no single component will be less than the system being replaced.

 

That's what "Contempt of Court" is for. Here comes the Judge. Sock it to them Baby.

 

My bad, My mind registers Milberg and NVIDIA as the same. I wonder why it does that.

 

I see why they want to replace our TX1000's with NET-BOOK Tablets instead of NOTE-BOOK Tablets. MONEY

HP's Small & Medium Business Online Store

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXq9VER4gqE&playnext=1&list=PLD318ABD228097D1F

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9HfIq3PoQc