Core i7 620 in x201- this doesnt make sense??

How can the x201 have the same top i7 processor as the t410 and t510?

This suggests either:

-The x201 has a processor too hot for its design

-The t410 and t510 could accomodate a 'hotter' cpu

 

There are three Core-i7 mobile CPUs with a 620 model number....620M, 620LM, and 620UM.

The 620LM is a low voltage CPU with a TDP of 25w and a base clock of 2Ghz. The 620UM is a ultra-low voltage CPU with a TDP of 18w and a base clock of 1.06Ghz.

 

There are lots of Core i7 processors:

http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?familyId=43402

The T410 contains this one:

620M - 2.66GHz

The x201 review on this site contains this one:

640LM - 2.13GHz

This is a lower power unit (look at the Max TDP column in my first link for a rough guide to power).

Some even run at 1.06GHz... not all Core i7 are equal.

The 7xx and 8xx models are completely different technology to the 6xx range too, just to add even more confusion!

For the type of work people are doing on a 12" tablet, the 640LM will be a great processor. An overkill for word/excel.

 

But the 620M is available for the x201........ so my point still stands? Surely either this will be like my T7500 x61 (melts when it runs at 2.2GHz) or there is more room to put a faster processor in the T410 and T510?

http://www.mobilewhack.com/lenovo-to-release-thinkpad-x201-series/

"In terms of specifications the normal X201 will have an Intel processor that can go up to the Core i7-620M running at 2.66GHz"

 

It does look like the x201 will be pretty nice with that 620m. The x201s models do have the lower power processors...

Until Intel release something else in the 35W range, I doubt you'll see a faster processor in the T410.

For manufacturing purposes, often companies use the same parts/designs for several models to safe cost. Perhaps the same cooling fan/layout is used for both X201 and T410 giving them similar thermal characteristics?

Time will tell. All else is a guess!

 

Im just worried its too much in the x201, like my x61. Do you think lenovo learnt their lesson? i heard the x200 had no thermal problems.

 

I know a few people got an x200 with a 35w TDP CPU (e.g. T9400). I have not heard of any thermal complaints, but it would run a little hotter. That being said the x200 runs excessively cool with a 25w TDP CPU due to the quality of its heatsink and it can likely handle a 35w TDP CPU (higher now that the GPU is in the same package).

The heatsink on the x200s and x200 Tablet is smaller, but it runs very cool with a 17w TDP CPU (a 25w may work, but I've never seen this tried).

 

My friend 'showed' me how hot his macbook pro (2.8GHz) runs and that was only from touching the top of the keyboard (and his was hotter than touching the bottom of my x61)!

 

When I was working in the Amazon a few Apples around me just gave up ... heat exhaustion had rendered them useless. So in an X201 s what would provide me with decent speed for normal business usage & watching a few movies ?

 

you can't really compare apples (literally apples in this case, laptops known for their ridiculous amounts of heat) to oranges (thinkpads are know for, well, the lack of ridiculous amounts of heat...at least not unless they're malfunctioning)

as for the increased tdp of the i7 cpu, you'd have to take into account that the "cpu" has more than just the cpu nowadays, such as graphics...so while the cpu itself is hotter, the whole platform actually generates roughly the same amount of heat if not less

 

for the T9400 cpu i am surprised as to how energy efficient and cool it runs even if it is a 35 watt TDP... P9xxx would be better obviously.

In my R500, the T9400 with ATI 3470 GPU under battery saver mode with the optical drive off, i can get 4 hours of battery time with screen brightness at 50%, wireless off. While my T7100 R61 with intel x3100 GPU can only get 2 hours 40 minutes with the same battery and running mode.

Also, the temperature of the air coming out of the R500 heat vent is cooler than that of the R61.

 

The 620M has TDP of 35W. As people mentioned some X200 uses a 35W TDP CPU without any problem. In fact, X61 had been using 35W TDP CPU all along without problem (though the X61 has the hot right palmrest problem... which has to do with the wireless card directly under it). Coming to the X200 from the X61, I can immediately notice better ventilation and larger heatsink in design, not to mention a much more quiet fan (more quiet than the X61 fan when running at the same rpm).

If the X61 design can handle 35W TDP CPU without problem, I don't see why the X201 can't.

While I am a Thinkpad fan, I don't agree with you that Apple's macbooks are known for "rediculous amount of heat". My brother owns an unibody 13" macbook pro, and I had a chance to play with it for an extended period. I found that it handles heat pretty well and runs pretty cool, even under stressed. My guess is it has to do with the fact that the whole body of it is made of metal, which can act as a giant heat sink and dissipate the heat effectively.

 

No i don't because im comparing it within the same processor series. My point is that lenovo obviously try and put the fastest processor in to each model that will work. Considering the difference in capability the t410 and t510 have for better cooling, compared with the x201 i cannot see how they can both be limited to the i7 620m. Either the x201 can handle a 620m fine and the t410/t510 could handle a faster processor, or the t410 and t510 handle the 620m fine and the x201 cooling will struggle.

No its the back-left (underneath F2, F3 and F4 keys) which gets hottest because of the cpu

 

realwarder already answered your question. :\

 

Well, that's the part where it SHOULD be hot and that's NOT where the CPU lies. The CPU of the X61 lies (roughly, I don't have it with me right now) underneath the ASDZXC key area. The reason why the upper left corner is hot is because that's where all the heat of all hot components (except one, the wireless card) in the X61 are directed to (by heatpipes). The single fan located there then take the job of blowing the hot air out of the machine.

That's how the design works, and the same design was inherited to the X200. The X60/X61 series were criticized for heat-related problem because it has another area which was much hotter than it should had been - the right palmrest.

If you really worry about the upper left corner of your X61 getting hot, let me tell you that the same area of the X200 isn't noticeably cooler. But at least the fan on X200 is quieter and the palmrests are cool. (Go try a X31 before complaining about the X61 being hot. The whole bottom of the X31 gets hot when it runs.)

 

Well if i leave it on my wooden desk, running at 2.2GHz it turns itself off after about 20 mins because of the heat. I prop the back up to allow better airflow!

No he hasn't, not really- he said there are different types of core i7, which is redundant as i have stated that the x201, t410 and t510 all take the same core i7 620M as their most powerful cpu.

Am i right in believing that the t410 and t510 have greater cooling capability as they are thicker than the x201?

 

The T410's i7 is a full voltage 2.66GHz processor. The x201's i7 is a low voltage 2.13GHz processor. Since the x201 appears to be using the same case as the former x200 (with the inclusion of a touchpad however), and NBR's x200 review states that

, I would assume then that the x201 not only has an adequate cooling design, but the T410's cooling design can handle higher voltage, faster processors.
The processors in the T410 and x201 are not the same processors.
I would invite you to actually read the links that realwarder gave. The low voltage processor in the x201 has a TDP of 25 watts, whereas the processor in the T410 has a TDP of 35 watts.

 

No it's not, the x201 can also have a full 2.66GHz i7 620M:

http://www.blogcatalog.com/topic/core+i7-620m/
http://www.today-reviews.com/tag/core-i7-620m
http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=12439
http://www.gadgetvenue.com/lenovo-thinkpad-x201-range-spotted-02174548/

So, back to my original question, is the x201 being overstretched or the t410 and t510 not pushed enough cpu-wise?

 

Ok, read the following reviews and make your own conclusions.

x200 review.

T410 review.

x201 review.

 

The x201 comes with the SAME i7-620M as the T410.
The x201s and x201t come with an i7-620LM LOW VOLTAGE PROCESSOR.

I think it's a valid question. How is the x201 able to dissipate the heat? The t410 has a larger heatsink and chassis, so how does the smaller heatsink and chassis of the x201 do when handling the same processor.

In the previous generation, the p8600 offered was a 25w cpu and that was the best offered in the x200. You couldn't get the top of the line T400 cpu in an x200 chassis.

So what's changed? Either the x200/201 had more overhead to handle heat than we knew about, or the T410 can handle more heat than the 620M produces.

 

Yes thats exactly what im saying!

The x200's fastest cpu was the P8800 (2.66) whilst the t400 had the T9900(3.06), this makes sense as the t400 can dissipate much easier with (presumably) a larger heatsink.

So how comes they now have the same top-end cpu?

@talin, i dont get what you're trying to show me with those links??

 

How are any of those relevant...the x201 NBR got for review didn't have the i7-620M

 

Ugh, I give up. I perfectly understand his question, but he's missing the point that they are not using the same processor. Different TDP. I gave links to those reviews to make a point that they all according to the reviewers have great cooling solutions. So whichever processor Lenovo sees fit to put in their systems, it would seem the systems would be able to handle it. End of story.
They cannot be the same cooling systems as they are different chassis, though all seem to share in the "owl" fan design, which allows them to move the same amount of volume of air while being quieter, but all are more than adequate for the chassis'.

 

Yes the ones in the review don't have the same processor as the T410, but he's saying that you can configure the x201 with the exact same processor as the T410. Look through the hardware manual before you claim otherwise again. So he's wondering if these configurations will have heat problems.

And just because one processor does not have heat issues inside the laptop, it does not serve as absolute proof that another processor won't have problems.

But really there's no way to tell from just forum speculation anyway.

 

Ok I understand then. Then I have to go back and say what I said before, that according to the reviews the cooling systems on all 3 are excellent, and I honestly wouldn't worry about any overheating, but you're right, we can only guess on it.

 

well from what I gather, 35 watt CPUs and 25 watt ones run at the same temp at idle or near it, it's when they're pegged that the heat makes a difference. When you're on battery, your CPU is downclocked anyway so there won't be much of a difference between 25 watt and 35 watt. Plugged in might be a little different, but unless you're constantly pegging your CPU, it won't be a problem.

Edit: also, another thing of note, Arrandale has an integrated graphics core and doesn't need a Southbridge, and it is believed that the integrated graphics core saves at least 7 watts on its own, and eliminated the Southbridge also saves a few watts, so a 35 watt Arrandale is believed to be on par with a 25 watt Penryn.

 

ANY CPU that is offered on the x201(s/T) would be more than enough for those needs. I would recommend a decent SSD if you want it to feel faster and more responsive.

 

On the Australian website Lenovo claims 3mb. cache will on the Intel site it says 4mb. Looks like a nice processor so far

 

Ok ive found my answer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...2Arrandale.22_.28standard_voltage.3B_32_nm.29

They all have the same 'premium' cpu (620M) because without jumping to the next level i7 720QM, there is no more powerful cpu than the 620M. Presumably none of the x201, t410 or t510 could cope with the 720QM heat, so they are all capped to the 620M.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=macbook+hot&esrch=FT1

jokes aside, all people i know who has macbooks say, and also from my personally (relatively limited) experience, macbooks, especially the unibody ones, do not run cool...

 

Core i3 and i5 have 3mb, Core i7 have 4mb.

 

That isn't right. Is your fan running at all? Or is the heatsink filled with dust? Try shooting some compressed air directly at the heatsink.

Any laptop that behaves like this clearly indicates that it is malfunctioning, why didn't you send it back for repair? In fact I am very surprised that you are still using, or able to use, this X61. If this only started to happen recently, then probably the fan is broken or the heatsink is blocked as mentioned above.

My X61 also has a 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, and didn't have any CPU overheating problem. In fact I have been using tpfancontrol to lower the fan speed almost all the time (due to noisy fan), so if there is any problem with heat dissipation I have only been worsening it.

 

Can't believe I am defending macbook... If you google "macbook hot" of course it will give you a list of results with people complaining about macbook being hot. This is call the selection problem, if you have any background in statistics. The same goes for "thinkpad hot"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&esrch=FT1&q=thinkpad+hot&btnG=Search&=&aq=f&oq=

and "inspiron hot"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&esrch=FT1&q=inspiron+hot&btnG=Search&=&aq=f&oq=

and this is rather pointless.

Anyway, I am only speaking from personal experience, and regardless of how hot/cool the macbook runs, I am not buying one and I don't really care.

 

oh c'mon i did say it's a joke

 

Macbook Pro unibody, use the whole underside of the laptop as a giant heatsink. This design was first implemented in the macbook air. Basically, the whole laptop underside is a giant heat conductor, which is why it is hotter to touch than say a thinkpad.

You can google for the Macbook pro unibody disassembly pictures, which will only show you two small fans with no copper heatsink in sight (the 13 inch model has only one fan).

Whilst conventional laptop use a separate heatpipe/copper or aluminium heatsink with fan to dissipate heat away from CPU/GPU. Since most of the laptop has a plastic outer casing, which is not a great heat conductor it will appear to be cooler to touch than the Macbook Pro unibody.

 

Did any1 test i7 x201? I really want to know how hot it is, though it is true that it is hotter than x200

 

don't know about x200. but x201 seems pretty cool, or at least not hot.

 

Are you using x201 with i7 620m? or i5? How abt the work load you tested? Will really appreciate it if you can test it by playing some 1080p movies.

 

I had x201 with i7-620m for several days before I sent it back because of the speaker problem. I remember that I was amazed that it stays cool even playing 1080p movies. Now I am waiting to order i7-620m once it is in stock, again.

 

You really shouldn't have sent it back. Lenovo released a fix for the speaker problem. :\ Some times a little patience pays off.

 

You are right.

I was the first several people sending it back, before it was identified as an software problem. I actually called Lenovo to ask it back to me, but they said they couldn't do it

 

The good news is that we should start seeing them at the Outlet Center!

 

Hmm... I thought you returned it because of the screen problem and got a X201s instead. What's wrong with the X201s now that you want a X201?

 

For me, x201s is noticeably slower than x201 with i7-620m and the higher screen is no use. More importantly, the battery time is not much better than x201. So I still want a x201.

 

No you don't compare newer Core processors' TDP with older ones like that.

Since the northbridge of the chipset has been integrated into the CPU itself, the CPU TDP counts for both of them if you are going to compare with older platform.

It's like this:

Older platform
CPU: P series: 25W
Northbridge: GM45: 12W
Southbridge: ICH9M: 2.5W

TOTAL: 39.5W TDP for all main chips.

Newer platform
CPU: M series: 35W
Chipset (there is no north or southbridge, just one chip left): 3.5W

TOTAL: 38.5W TDP for all main chips.

So, theoretically, newer platform with 35W CPU will have less heat to dissipate (1W less), also, since the 3.5W chip wouldn't need to be actively (or even passively) cooled, there is only one main source of heat to be taken care of, this simplify heatsinkfan design works, a lot.

Therefore, it enables Lenovo to use 620M i7 in X201, if it can handle 330M i3, it can handle 620M i7, the system doesn't care what CPU it has, only the TDP counts, all 35W CPUs can be used with X201, if Intel decided to introduce some pin compatible 990XM i9 with 35W TDP, it can be used.

More on this if you care, on paper, newer platform dissipate less heat, but in reality, based on my own tests (I'm lucky to be a reviewer for my own website, in Vietnamese, sample products was provided by Intel) newer platform actually consume more power than older platform (Penryn, with GM45) but just a little bit in real life usage. Because of Turbo Boost, which can be used to overclock the computation cores or the graphics processing core based on the tasks in used in whatever way it see fit, within the thermal envelope and TDP restriction.

You don't have to worry, though, battery life only decrease like 3% - 8% with very stressful, although real life usage test case. Most of the time when you use your computer, it stays idle, so you wouldn't notice battery life decrease, if any.

One last thing to know is this is all based on my own tests, which may not be accurately mirror your usage, so, you milage may vary.

 

Oh, I forgot to add, that because there is only less main chip need to be presented, the motherboard can be shrinked, ease the design works, lower the manufacturing costs and more room for heatsinkfan implement, this is a big deal.

I don't own myself any X series ThinkPad so I can't compare the internals, but I believe that Lenovo can easily rework as needed the internal to better cooling the CPU and therefore (maybe) sooner or later X201s can accommodate normal voltage CPU, for those who want to minimize luggage weight but don't really need long battery life. This is only wild guess.

Currently, LM and UM sacrifice too much performance in order to limit TDP.

 

Wow, I have a computer with a 1.4GHz SU9400 and you guys think a Core i7-640LM is slow. I would love to have an X201s with a 640LM.

 

I don't think Core i7-640LM is slow. Slow here is only relative, I only said that in order to stay within the designated TDP, too much performance has to be sacrifice.

 

So could you give us the conclusion about the better choice: 620M or 540M?
I think $100 is worth to upgrade to a SSD then.