I really want a Thinkpad but I am scared. Please help!!

I think I have pretty much decided on buying the Thinkpad
T61. My main goal is to run Kubuntu Linux on it exclusively,
without Windows. My main use for the laptop will be to surf
the web wirelessly(most essential), send emails, listen to
some music, look at photos, some light gaming, and maybe
compile some code in Linux. I plan on buying it brand new
through Lenovo's website. This will be my first laptop that
I have owned. But before I do that I had some concerns that
I have listed below that I need answers to. Could you guys
help? Any comments are much appreciated. Thanks.

1.) How is Lenovo's build quality today? Many people
mention that their laptop from 5 years ago is great, but what
about today? IBM sold everything off to Lenovo around 2005.
Has Lenovo maintained the legendary Thinkpad quality after
IBM?

2.) I have read various posts around the web that mention
bad QA at Lenovo. Specifically I have read stories of bent
frames, poor fit and finish, keyboards that were not
installed properly for laptops that were assembled. In
addition I have read about poor customer support recently.
Also I went to the resellerratingswebsite and they have a 3 out of 10 rating. Do you guys have any comments/personal experiences?

3.) I have heard that the screen they use for the ThinkPad
is not good, it is too dim. Is this true? If I buy it, will
I have a hard time looking at it? I plan on doing the
Integrated X3100 Intel Video card with the WSXGA+ screen.

4.) Why are there such large shipping delays with Lenovo?
Is this common with other manufactures are well such as Dell?

5.) People mention the T61p. I have looked for this on
Lenovo's site but have not found it. Could someone give me
the link from Lenovo's site for it's description?

6.) Is there any point to get the finger print reader? As I
said before I plan on running Linux exclusively at some
point. I don't think it is supported now, but is there any
real chance that the finger print reader will ever be
supported in Linux? Is it a waste of money for me?

7.) Am I going to get a noticeable performance gain from a processor with an L2 Cache size of 4MB as opposed to 2MB where the processing speed is 2.0Ghz for both?

8.) When I configure the laptop from Lenovo I get the option to configure the System expansion slot. I can either choose PC card slot & express card slot or PC card slot & Smart card slot[$25]. What is the advantage of one over the other and which one should I get?

 

I think i can help a little with a few of these:

1. The build quality is excellent in my opinion its better than ever, i have an older A21m which unfortunately has a bad logic board, but my T61 definitely is more solid and sturdy than its predecessors, There is 0 flex when you pick it up by a corner when its open.

3. The screen is somewhat dim, but that is mostly to reduce eye strain, but it is perfectly visible even in direct sunlight.

6. Some have gotten it to work in linux, but its really personal preference above all else.

Overall with Linux (especially ubuntu variants) everything works great right away, i run a dual boot with XP and ubuntu 7.10 and everything was detected instantly with the exception of the fingerprint reader and the audio, wireless works fine with the AGN, the Nvidia works flawlessly in linux and id assume the intel will work even better.

A great resource for Linux on thinkpads is Thinkwiki.org

 

I'll try my best and answer what I can also:

1.) I bought my T61 a few months ago and I can honestly say that this laptop has the sturdiest and most durable build I have felt in a laptop.

2.) This whole forum is a nest for problems and complaints. Look at the ThinkPad Appreciation Thread in my signature if you want positive information.

3.) I have the Samsung WXGA LCD panel and it is plenty bright.

4.) I don't know.

5.) There is no "clear" option of the T61p but the "p" versions are the ThinkPad Mobile Workstations on the right: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...-category-id=19C791A03AF24034A0011B825513BCED

6.) I think the fingerprint reader is just another gimmick. Not worth it.

7.) Depends on what kind of work you're doing. CPU intensive applications you will notice a significant speed difference.

8.) The Smart Card combination is for extra security. Most people don't use this unless they have really important stuff on their laptop or go to places where malicious things happen. Most people get the ExpressCard option because it allows things like an eSata HDD, which is really useful.

 

1) I bought a new t61 at the beginning of December. I feel like the build quality, and the overall feel of the materials used, is slightly lower than thinkpads from a year or two ago. I'm still very happy with my purchase, and it still feels better than any other new laptops i've seen in the last year, but its clear to me that you pay for what you get, and thinkpad prices have definitely been coming down. If you're concerned about this, get on the hunt to go find real life examples of the models youre considering and judge for yourself. i wish i would've physically checked out the HP Compaq business laptops before ordering my thinkpad, for example.

2) for every strident complaint that gets posted theres probably thousands of satisfied users, so don't give the bitter loudmouths the disproportionate credence/attention they seek. not to say that there aren't lemons, but i find that the complaints that get posted are often rather irrational. Furthermore, based on the tone used by a lot of these folks, i often doubt their good faith in constructively working with the CSRs at Lenovo that they are complaining about.

3) i don't know if i have the LG or Samsung screen, but i am quite satisfied with its brightness. i love displaying two full size documents side by side without overlap.

4) i believe that the quoted "delays" are Lenovo's method to manage expectations. when i ordered mine, i was quoted a 5-6 week leadtime, and had my machine in my hands within about 10 days of ordering. that seemed to be a common experience among other purchasers in nov/dec as well.

6) for some reason i never noticed an option for the fingerprint reader when i ordered mine (i thought it was a standard feature) and so i don't have one. i wish i had one though, because i like to securely log in and out every time i use my machine and a swipe is a lot easier than typing. my brother uses his all the time and really likes it.

 

My experience of my T61p is very much like Ark's. It's study, well built and my screen is a phillips and it's plenty bright. There are no heating problems or noises and it's only had one BSOD when I was installing Vista 64.

On the down side, I'd note two:

1.) Battery life time even with a nine cell battery is not impressive. On the other hand my system is maxed out.

2.) My system with a 15.4 inch widescreen and nine cell battery, is heavy as a brick. It really is

 

Q1. The quality is surely lower than the past 3 years, but it's not bad at all.
Q2. There's some defaults as you say, but for me, I can accept them. I bought this T61 from the beginning, it costs about 1900$ before taxes. I own alot of computers, that's why I can feel it as an average laptop. Customer service is somehow better than Toshiba Canada. People I talk is very nice, and they can support me alot from the beginning without a cost.
Q3. My screen comes with Thindpad Display. It's damn dim, and everything in the windows is too small due to high resolution. It's not good to watch a movie with T61.
Q6. Finger is not good, as is not bad at all. It mades in China. Instead typing password everytime you log in windows, you only need pass your finger, that's all. But you still need keep your password in private area, because you will need it again if you want to change password. Besides, your fingerprint data save in it bios, combine with this new techno CPU, you maybe will be a victime in the future if someone want to change your whole life after that. Before buying this T61, I dream about this. I think I will never need to store my passwords again, and again. But it's not true.
Q7. Nope. in your setup and your demand, you cannot feel a speed. Even with 1 core, you cannot feel a difference. In the past, when I have had a DX-386, I always dream about the super fast computer, 1 second you can boot up to windows. The fact is after 20 years, I never get to it. Faster 1 or 2 seconds is not good for your feelings and your money. Today, I think you will pay for what you need, not Pay for what you have. No more the quality for the premium price. In some areas, it still have, but it's rare.
Q8. The second one with Express card slot. You can upgrade some of hardwares after.

 

I was going to get a fingerprint reader but decided id just stick with passwords...Maybe I should of gotton one instead of Turbo Memory. I wish I had more time to research but my coupons were goign to expire if I researched any longer...Saved 880 but no fingerprint reader and useless Turbo Memory (since Im going to go back to XP and it is not supported)

Fingerprint readers are cool, but check out this article.

Gummi bears defeat fingerprint sensors

 

Even though I own an R61, maybe I'll add some thoughts here.

2) Build quality is still good as ever, but mine came with a few qualms. My palmrest did not sit flush with the chassis (doesn't seem like I'm the only one). After reseating it countless times, I just ordered a new one from tech support and they sent me a new one. Not only did that fix the problem, they sent me a palmrest with a free FP reader as well. There are other things that I can complain about, but I won't because they don't affect the performance of the lappy (in other words, I'm still a happy camper).

Other than that, build quality is excellent. It's one of the few laptops that I've handled that doesn't flex at the corners or the screen (and this includes Thinkpads of the T4x series).

I don't know about the others, but my recent dealing with CS was excellent. One call to the techs in Atlanta was all it took to fix my palmrest problem. They were courteous and didn't pester me for anything. They ship out the part to you with next-day service, might I add.

3) I have a Samsung, and it's bright enough at full. When the brightness is lowered, though, it does tend to look a bit dim. Probably because of the fact that it's a matte screen, though, so I'm fine with that.

4) I didn't order a T61, but my R61 shipped out three days after I ordered it.

6) The FP reader seems more like a fun toy to me. Even though I have it, I rarely use it.

7) Maybe if you do things such as video encoding, but generally I don't think so. I have the T7250, and it still feels snappy enough for what I do.

8) If you don't know what a Smart Card is, chances are you're probably not going to need the slot. Go with the ExpressCard slot.

 

Thinkpad fingerprint sensors are capacitive, so a gummy bear or other non-living object won't work. Someone could cut your finger off and still not get in since it wouldn't have an electric charge anymore.
No joke.

 

Thats awesome I should have got one to play with.

 

#1 and #2 are definitely valid. #1 depends on how picky you are but if you like good fit and finish to things and are benchmarking quality to a real IBM then you may not be happy. However, there are no current alternatives so by default the Thinkpad is still king. #2 is valid. On trendline, Thinkpads are going downhill. Don't know if MBZ turning into a Yugo but I can certainly see Thinkpads becoming the next Buick. Thinkpads dont have the same level of precision assembly as before. Engineering is still tops but the cases look like they were slapped toghther by some some workers who had a mandate of assemblying 1000 notebooks per hour. Cant blame it on them when the labor rate is like $0.00005 per hour. Isntead blame it on corporate just trying to maintain last year's margins. Call center is in India with people using Anglo names and trained to have "western accents" but that is the trend nowadays. There is an indifference to customer service but that is based on how much coporporate wants to pay these people or the type of contract they have with the oursourced call center firm.

 

#4 is due to demand exceeding supply. Lenovo slashing prices to meet quarterly numbers expectations thus they get a flood of orders looking for a cheap "IBM." Weak logistics supply chain which is uncoordinated and poorly managed. Left hand is not coordinated with the right hand. Cuultural problems between Chinese mangement and Americans who couldnt find other jobs after IBM dumped the business unit, etc.

 

Hope you are ready to try the Lenovo.

 

Note that this article is over 5 years old. Not to say that fingerprint readers are foolproof... but the technology has evolved quite a bit since the time this article was written. Heck, XP was practically brand new at the time this article was written. As others mentioned the ThinkPad's fingerprint reader is capacitive and would therefore take some doing to use anything but a real finger.

 

What I will tell you is this...

The only way I could get Ubuntu 7.10 to boot for me was if I ran it in safe graphics mode. It would boot halfway and just hang if I tried to get it to load normally...

I've got the T61p with the Quadro 570m.

It works fine on my desktop computer, so I don't know what the deal is...

 

Suse Linux works better on these machines. Lenovo is actually releasing certain models of T61 and R61 models with Suse preinstalled.

 

Thanks so much for your reply. Please see my comments in red below.

 

Thanks for your reply. I have read a lot about that palm rest problem. That was one of the things that made me nervous. I was like how are they assembling these things? What is the fit and finish going to be if they can't assemble the plam rest properly?

 

Thanks for your frank reply. I agree with what you say. A lot of what you mention is true. The real problem is everything getting cheaper and cheaper. I understand the whole argument about if you want something to be cheap in price you have to have it made overseas with a lower labor rate. I personally would be willing to pay more if the product was still out of the US employing US workers to turn out a quality product. Unfortunately, once the public gets used to the lower prices they don't want to look back. But I think finally things are catching up to the corporations, they are getting so cheap that it is hurting their QA severely.

Since I have never owned a thinkpad in the past, I might be ok since I have nothing to compare it with.

 

Well here is where I am at right now. I think the T61 is the best for the money right now. If you know better let me know . Please see the config I will get below. Please give me any suggestions, How is the price?, Should I buy another year onsite warranty?, etc.

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz 800MHz 2MBL2)
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic - US English
15.4 WSXGA+ TFT
Intel GMA X3100 GM965
1 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
Keyboard US English
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
120GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo 24X/24X/24X/8X Max, Ultrabay Slim
PC Card Slot & Express Card Slot
4 in 1 Media Card Reader
Intel Wireless Wi-Fi Link 4965AGN (supporting Centrino Pro)
Integrated Bluetooth PAN
6 cell Li-Ion Battery
Country Pack North America
Language Pack US English
6465: Express - 1 Yr Depot Warranty
1 year onsite 9x5 Next Business Day

Laptop Price = $840.73
Extra Warranty Price = $31.20
Total = $871.93

 

Personally I'd bump the Hard Drive up to7200 RPM, other than that for what you want it seems good.

 

That looks like a really good price for that laptop. Nice configuration.

 

I'd have to agree. Good choices there, especially the screen res. Good luck with your purchase, and hope you'll be happy with it!

 

Good luck to you, I've been going through the same thing myself looking at Thinkpads this last month. Enjoy it when you get it!

 

Thanks for all your help guys. I defenetly want to go with the T61 15.4". I know of most of the specs that I want but I changed a couple of things. I think I am going to go with the 3 year depot warranty. Also I have been going back and forth about the screen resolution. When I posted my last post on this thread about my proposed config, I felt that more resolution was always good(had never seen really high res on a 15.4" screen). Well I went to a couple of stores and was actually able to to look at a 1680x1050 screen. I like the image quality and the icons were easily identifiable, but the text was wicked small. I don't have the best eyes, i am very near sighted but can see fine with my contacts. Some people suggest that I should just increase the text size in the browser, but then there are 2 bad things that happen. One, sometimes certain pages get rendered wierd, i.e. text sometimes overlaps on other text. Second, you have to keep scrolling the web page horizontally, which is really annoying.

Like I had said before my main use will be to put Linux on this laptop and play with config files and such, use the command prompt in KDE to do stuff, surf the web a lot, type up documents, view/edit pictures once in a while, listen to music, watch a dvd while surfing the web and maybe play warcraft III/neverwinter nights once in a while.

I want to order the laptop today or tomorrow. I use a Sony XBrite monitor for my desktop that has a resolution of 1280X1024 and is 17". I find the resolution comfortable to use, but would not mind if it went one step higher. So I figure that this same basic resolution on a 15.4" would be perfect for me. Also I think that the Integrated graphics card should be good, since I don't want to spend even more on this laptop(i.e it is getting slightly higher than my budget).

1.) What do you think of my resolution choice? What do I really gain with a high res screen and can an integrated card even support the high res screen?
2.) What do you think of me getting the integrated video card?
3.) What do you think of my warrenty plan I am choosing, is it fine? I want to keep the laptop for 3 to 4 years.
4.) What the heck is the Wireless Personal Area Network that lenovo has an option of with a USB logo. I read the description they had on their page but I have never heard of this. Is this like another bluetooth? Should I get it?

Thanks. Once I am firm on these then I will order in a day.

 

1)Integrated video card will be perfectly fine running 1680x1050 resolution as long as it's just 2d stuff (word proc. & browsing).

I wouldn't expect it to run 3d games very smoothly. Not sure how the intel integrated would handle warcraft 3, it should be ok at lower resolution.

I much prefer the higher resolution as you get more useful desktop room for having multiple windows open.

2) Integrated video is fine for all those that don't play 3d games. It's cheaper and saves battery life.

3) I don't personally extend my warranty but I would rather have a longer warranty than additional services available during the first year (1 year onsite) Your choice will vary depending on how much you really need your laptop.

4) That's basically wireless USB. I wouldn't get it as it's still pretty new and not that many devices support it yet.

 

Thanks guys for all your help, you have been really great and patient. I went ahead and ordered my T61 today, I am so happy! Can't wait to test it out. Hope all goes well with it. Once I get it I will post my impressions about it and take pictures of it to help others out. I can't believe I am so excited about a laptop, very sad . Look below for the config I choose. I hope I choose well and don't regret not going for some other options.

I am pretty sure I will up the ram. I don't know about the harddrive. I wanted to go for the 7200 rpm drive but I need the 120GB space and the 7200 drives of that size are too expensive for me right now. I only spent $29 dollars to go from 80GB 5400 to 120GB 5400, not too bad I think. I will be dual booting Ubuntu and Vista, so that space is necessary. If I notice a lag, I might upgrade the drive and sell the original.

See my config below. What do you think of the config? How about the price I paid? Did I overpay?

Intel core 2 duo T8100(2.1 GHz 800 MHz 3MBL2)
Vista Basic
15.4" WXGA TFT
Intel GMA X3100 GM965
1 GB Ram(1 dim)
Trackpoint and Touchpad(no fingerprint reader)
120GB 5400rpm Hardrive
CDRW/DVD-ROM Combo
Intel WiFi 4965AGN
Bluetooth
6 cell battery
3 year depot warranty

Total(includes tax, shipping, item and warranty) = $940

 

Price looks ok to me. Did you use any coupon codes or straight off the site?

 

Looks like I should order my new palm rest with a fingerprint scanner .