Is there a good reason that the touchpad still exists...

...besides obstinateness on part of consumers unwilling to adapt?

I own an x61s, which does not include a touchpad. I can confidently say that I will never go back to using a touchpad as long as I live. Most people are immediately put back when they see that my laptop includes only a trackpoint for navigation. In my experience, the vast majority of people who dislike the pointing stick have only used it fleetingly, if at all.

However, once used to the trackpoint (and it does not take long), it is in my opinion vastly more intuitive and efficient than the touchpad especially when it is set to the highest sensitivity level. In fact, apart from gaming I now prefer the trackpoint to a normal mouse.

So I'm curious, is there something I've missed? Is there an application for which the touchpad is significantly better suited than the trackpoint? It seems sad and unreasonable that the pointing stick is slowly but surely disappearing from the known universe. From now on, if I had the luxury of choice, I would only buy laptops that include a pointing stick and exclude the touchpad, as I consider it a pointless (haha pun) waste of space. Unfortunately, the Thinkpad X-series is the only line of notebooks I am aware of that are designed such.

 

why not have both? if you prefer touchpoint, use it. how does also having a trackpad hurt you?

 

i wouldn't say either one is better; they both work fine.

customers just seem to prefer the pad, so that's what manufacturers make more of.

anyways, why should people adapt to a market? if businesses want to something to sell, THEY need to consider what consumers need/want/prefer...

 

I personally don't like the trackpoint. Just not a fan...

 

What do you want a cookie? I've been using ThinkPads for years and I've always preferred the trackpad. I can used the trackpoint just fine, but prefer the touchpad. Even when they had no touchpads, I used a mouse. They used to be much stiffer back in the day, which I think is where my dislike of them started.

 

One word - PalmCheck. Having a touchpad on the palmrest almost always causes a problem of accidental mouse movement.

Overall, I'd say the TouchPad is common because that's what consumers say they like (or more accurately, have been told to like). I have never seen a notebook with a TrackPoint (or even the lesser knockoff sticks by HP/Dell/Fujitsu) at a brick and mortar store (e.g. Best Buy). Glossy screens are a result of the same phenomena.

TouchPad technology may also be cheaper to implement/license than the stick. Further, supplying a low quality touchpad is probably a boom to the sales of aftermarket mouses because the touchpad is so imprecise.

 

i think the touchpad can be disabled, can't it?

 

I think you're logic is flawed there. I know many who don't like the trackpoint, not because we've not tried it, but because we have and don't like it. Glossy screens are much more vivid. I think there's a definite reason some prefer them. As with both, there's no right or wrong answer, only what one prefers.

 

There is definitely a reason why glossy screens are preferred. I myself would love a glossy screen if my house wasn't so bright and if I didn't have the need to use my laptop outside at least once a week.

But back on topic:
Although I find myself using the Trackpoint most of the time, I actually still prefer the touchpad for making tiny movements in a small area and for scrolling (I made the scroll regions larger for that reason). Besides, there is no negative of having a touchpad, since you can easily disable it completely if you would like to use only the Trackpoint.
I hope Lenovo never makes the mistake of removing the touchpad on its larger laptops.

 

It's all personal preference. Having an extra Touchpad on the bottom of the larger Thinkpads doesn't even make a difference simply because they need to fill up that huge chunk of space anyways. Furthermore, it opens up the market for variety of customers, some who may prefer one over the other or sometimes both. Just because 'you' find it useful doesn't mean other people will. There's all kinds of people out there and by having both Lenovo will have successfully capture a higher market share to satisfy everyone.

 

I personally use both and it really depends on my body position. If I'm laying back relaxing on the couch I will use the touchpad as it is a more natural location for that position. If I'm sitting upright at a desk/table I use the trackpoint because it just feels better in that location. I like that the larger thinkpads have both available.

 

yeah have the same problem jonlumpkin reported.

when using trackpoint, i have accidentally brushed the touchpad many times when i want to click, and as such the pointer moves from the target that i want it to click.

the trackpoint i found is not all that intuitive also when i'am typing, sometimes, my fingerhit the trackpoint when i'm typing around the G, H, B, area.

i dont mind either, i usually prefer using with mouse as much as i can, the touchpad on lenovo, or most (if not all) windows notebook i found to be too small to be pleasantly usable.

one wish i want lenovo to do is to put; "disable touchpad" button, on top of the touchpad.

 

I agree.

I am fairly opinionated as far as trackpoint being better than touchpad goes.

The touchpad is not only annoying from the perspective of its inaccuracy, but it can screws you up if you are a fast typer and you accidentally scape the touchpad such that it highlights portions of previous typed text, then you can easily replace paragraphs of writings during word processing. Also the fact that microsoft word has a 'last active chain' undo option, means that you can undo the lost paragraphs at the expense of losing what you were typing just before due to limitations in the saving of undo.

I have a problem with my trackpoint though from time to time and that is the drift. Sometimes it wants to move a certain direction and I have to let it have its fit and its fine afterwards. Dont know if its hardware related or a software issue. My only complaint.

 

Who uses one hand with a trackpoint?

I use my laptop laying on my back with laptop sitting on my stomach and often use one hand with the touchpad. Ergonomically I can't see how a trackpoint can be used with one hand.

 

Yea, sometimes it just keeps going slowly and you have to let it stop to use it again.

 

I use one hand to control the trackpoint. The thumb is used to press the buttons and the index/middle finger is on the trackpoint.

 

You can't do multi-touch gestures with the TrackPoint... I was myself a big fan back when I had a laptop with one - but calling touchpads 'imprecise' sorta reeks of not using a recent one. The precision of mine, combined with scrolling and the YASS Firefox plug-in is a very fun experience.

Then again, most default touchpad settings suck very bad.

 

Why, isn't it good to have more choices than less?

 

Three reasons why:

1.) Perception
2.) Learning Curve
3.) Preference

The perception is that the trackpoint is either: too hard and/or a legacy function for 40+ with pocket protectors and big glasses (this was my perception up until a week ago).

There is a learning curve involved. If you're a touch-typer however, that curve is significantly reduced.

Everyone has their own preference, which renders every other argument moot. The average consumer prefers touchpads and therefore touchpads are the norm.

 

From the day I got my R51 back in 2004, I've used the trackpoint exclusively. It's much more accurate than a touchpad in my experience and I have yet to screw up my typing by "accidentally" brushing it. If I do nudge the trackpoint when I'm typing, which almost never happens, the cursor moves so little that it isn't of any consequence and it won't select anything by accident. I can use the trackpoint with either hand or both hands without having to move from the home row and there's almost no physical movement involved with using it, so it's very comfortable to use for extended periods of time.

I have no use for the "gestures" of a touchpad, so the only real downside I've experienced with my trackpoint is the tendency for it to occasionally "drift". This is a problem common to all such devices, however, and it recalibrates itself after a few seconds.

If you need the gestures for whatever reason, of course, then the touchpad is superior. FWIW, though, many of the touchpad users who have used my laptop have taken a liking to the trackpoint once I showed them how it works.

 

^

Mouse gestures are fantastic by the way for browsing and can be done easily with the trackpoint. I know it's not nearly the functionality of the multi-touch but it is nice.

 

actually its imprecise no matter what. its intrinsic to touchpads. That is because your finger has a large area. Also depending if you are doing a finger print roll or how hard you are pressing the surface area of touchpad contact changes and everything. its juts naturally inprecise. the trackpoint makes no mistake about where the pointer is and how much you want to move and where.

 

Exactly how I use them

I do. Right index finger on red dot, right thumb on buttons.

It's easy enough to disable it without a button: Fn + F8, select one of the 3 options.

 

Unless you have the hands of a Cabbage Patch Kid, I don't see how you can't use it with one hand. The TrackPoint goes with the buttons above the touchpad, not the bottom set.

Not only do I use TrackPoint with one hand, I use it with my left hand while keeping the right handed button alignment. That is much more difficult to do with the touchpad.

In the last thread about this, I said that I don't use the touchpad, which is actually false. I use the touchpad infrequently, but it usually occurs as a result of my hands not being properly positioned on the keyboard for whatever reason. I do like having both on the laptop though, and I like how the ThinkPad's touchpad is horizontally centered on the home row, which isn't always a given.

 

Let's go back to the actual question. The overall answer is performance which although thinkpad advertises it, users are dreadfully oblivious to it the point that awareness of processor speeds are diminishing.
-Renee

 

Careful! You are insulting the secret Cabbage Patch forum members and their trackpoint challenged handicap.

But seriously. In my case, where I am almost flat on my back, reaching accross the laptop to use the trackpoint is not comfortable, with one or two hands. True, it is "possible" to use one (or two) hands in this position, it is just unnatural and uncomfortable.

I rest my left hand on the front edge of the laptop and use my index finger on the clicker and middle finger on the pad.

 

I just disable the touchpad. I have always hated touchpads ever since their inception. Why do they have both? Because not everyone likes the trackpoint.

 

I dislike the trackpoint and I've tried it.
-Renee

 

@OP:
When Thinkpad got a trackpad as HUGE (and GOOD) as Apple's then some guys will start a thread just like this "Is there a good reason that the Trackpoint still exists..."

I used Thinkpad lappy for quite sometime, since the good old days of T2x to the more recent X60s or R61 and I absolutely love the Trackpoint, always prefer it over mouse and touchpad. But then the MB Uni came along and that love just became history. If I ever turn back to PC again then it must be another TP, but it'd better be armed with a trackpad like the one I'm digging.

 

I hated trackpoint for years, years before I owned my first ThinkPad, because its old-fashion look and weirdness.
One day after owning my first ThinkPad for a year i forced myself to try and use only trackpoint. After I got used to TrackPoint, i couldn't stop using it. I found it more productive.

 

I used to hate it.

Nowadays, I wouldn't buy a laptop without it.

Much more precise, much more productive.

 

NOT to mention the touchpad is faster and, dare i say, more accurate than the trackpoint!

 

I use both interchangeably, but I do overall still prefer the Trackpad. The fact is they are popular and I think you'll find most notebooks that don't include them don't do as well in terms of sells. Like it or not you diehards, the trackpad is here to stay! LOL

 

heh i've disabled the touchpad on my laptop since the beginning. everyone who borrows my laptop immediately goes for the touchpad and find it don't work. and I have to tell them to use the trackpoint.

 

It would take me 2 seconds to turn on your trackpad! LOL

 

I've never been able to use the trackpoint very well, and touchpads don't work much better for me either, so I always bring a small wireless mouse with me and I'm happy as can be with that solution!

AJ

 

Heh, yeah, I suppose I could see how it might be better to use the touchpad if you're in that position, if for no other reason than the fact that it's a lot easier to locate the touchpad on the edge of the laptop. I once tried using my laptop like that while on the couch. I don't think I want to do that again. Typing by reaching my hands over the edge of the laptop really wasn't the way to go for me.

 

No it's not.

 

Maybe not for you. But personally I find the touchpad more easier to use than the trackpoint.

Honestly, use which everone one suits you best and its good thing lenovo is including both.

 

i cant remember who was the other manufacturer that also did trackpoint on their laptops at one point in time in history?

I'm pretty sure pretty much only thinkpad does it now. I do remember it was a green trackpoint from that manufacturer. Could it be an acer or something?

 

I think it was a samsung. But I remember it was light blue/ purple

 

I have a Dell Inspron 9100 that has a track point. I do not use the trackpoint.

 

I totally agree that the trackpad is a relic of the past and has no place in future Thinkpads.

 

i actually like that i have a trackpad on my laptop even though i permanently disabled it. it just looks better that the space is 'filled' than just a blank piece. It don't bother me at all. But i stopped using it and disabled it after the first few days of purchase ever since.

I think its a good addition to the thinkpads cause they look better than the older thinkpads without the touchpad also.

 

Good point. Definitely looks better aesthetically with the space filled rather than leaving it bare. I also have mine disabled and only enable it when friends want to go on and do not have a clue how to use the trackpoint

 

yea. except maybe the x200 cause they cant fit it anyway under a trackpoint and the palm rest area is small so it doesnt affect ithe look. yea a big bare palmrest looks boring. at least now it looks like it has function if the space is filled with a touchpad (that I dont even use)

 

I am trying to get used to the TrackPoint although for years I have used a Touchpad. What I am finding initially is, the TrackPoint is more econominacal in its movement - quicker to move from one side of the screen to the other with little movement of the finger compared to more movement of the fingrer using touchpad. Also, the precision of pointing where you want and selecting seems better than the touchpad. Whether I will be able to break my touchpad habit, I don't know but nothing inferior about TrackPoint from what I see so far.

Gary

 

The palmrest is for your palms so that is its true function, no need for 2 mouse options imho. But I do think that touchpads are more popular and that may have wrangled in some more potential buyers at the expense of hardcore thinkpadders.

 

Its so called a true function because its just there anyway since its necessary in order to fit everything the laptop needs hardwarewise.

the x series has barely a handrest. Also most normal desktop keyboards don't have hand rests also, e.g. the slim dell keyboards I think are the best defauly pc keyboards offered.

actualyl quite the contrary for my case. I am a hardcore microsoft windows thinkpadder and trackpoint supporter. But even though I personally never use the touchpad, I thought their addition of the touchpad actually enticed me to the thinkpad more for the abovementioned reasons

 

my old toshiba satellite of the 90's had a red trackpoint on it.