Keyboard flex in x201s

Can you x201s users do me a favor and press down on the upper right-hand side of your keyboards? Specifically, the = key or the delete key. Do you notice a lot of flex? On my particular keyboard, there is a significant amount of flex in that area whereas, moving to the lower left, there is gradually less and less flex. Can someone verify this is true for all copies of the laptop? Anyone know why this could be the case?

 

I just imagine less even bracing. The right shift on my x200 is by far the weaker area on the keyboard, however it still provides an excellent typing experience and I notice no flex while typing.

 

Some people solve the flex problem by realign the the keyboard. Remove the keyboard and carefully putting it back in

 

I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it here but yes there's flexing in that area. It's never bothered me though, probably because I don't slam the keys down hard enough when typing to have it affect me.

 

Just checked mine and it is perfect. No flex.


Where I do have a bit of flex or movement is on the outside when I close the lid. If the laptop is sitting in front of you when you close the lid you will see some movement on the right hand side where as on the left side it closes up nice and tight (firmly). The right hand side seems to have some movement and and a bit of noise if you press on the outside of it a few time you will hear tapping as to where this does not happen on the left.

 

I have the keyboard flex on the Enter/Shift key if I apply a ridiculous amount of pressure on purpose. I also have the lid movement stylinexpat has on the right side with the lid closed. Although I thought it was because of all the time the laptop spends in my backpack, guess it's always been there.

 

Damn, my x201s has lid movement too. I wonder if I can reinforce the keyboard somehow. I actually find myself missing my Dell keyboard. That thing is rock-freaking-solid.

 

How hard are you typing...? And which Dell's. I find the latitude keyboards to be pretty terrible in comparison and not solid either.

 

I don't type very hard, but I hit the enter key, backspace key, and delete key frequently enough to feel the flex. It's quite unfortunate, because the parts of the keyboard which present no flex are quite nice to type on. The larger keys on the right-hand side are not quite as pleasant

My other laptop is a Dell XPS M1530. I know people decry Dells, but honestly, my machine is a workhorse and I enjoy using it. Don't get me wrong; I love my ThinkPad. It goes places my Dell can't go.

 

Your keyboard may be a lemon then because there is no flex under normal usage on my keyboard (x200s).

 

It may be a lemon or just a poor installation. I had a very squeaky spacebar when I first received my ThinkPad; turns out one of the metal bars inside wasn't slotted all the way into the plastic. It took me 10 mins to carefully pop the bar and push everything into place. I'm hoping this flex is something stupid like that. Maybe a loose screw? I'll try removing it and putting it back in. Worst case scenario: the keyboard's backing is cracked and requires replacement.

Edit: That was easy enough to fix...So here's the issue: if you remove your battery and look through the rounded rectangles, you will notice your keyboard. Those rounded rectangular cutouts are holes in your roll cage, and there is a gap between the cage and the keyboard. I cut a long piece off an index card and slid it through the holes in the roll cage and that fixed all my flex issues. The enter key still flexes if I push really hard, but for the most part, I'm happy with it. You folks with business cards might consider this a feature since you can trim your card and slide it under the roll cage to personalize your ThinkPad discretely

Edit: I just typed for the last few hours, and I have to say, this keyboard is *much* more enjoyable without the flex. What a world of difference...

 

Good stuff criceto, that was an easy fix. Thanks!

 

I tried as well, no flex on my X201.

 

My Dell Vostro 1500 was one of the best keyboards I have ever typed on.

Bronsky

 

so how many laptops have you typed on so far?

 

Thanks..
I had the same issue and a business card did the trick

 

make sure the screw is on good for the keyboard. I changed my keyboard and the screw wasn't on and I noticed flexes issues. Once the screws that hold the keyboard were on..the kb didn't flex.

 

And, more importantly, which ones.

 

very true.

 

well, which ThinkPad keyboards?

 

My x201 has this too but I never noticed it until I read this thread. It doesn't effect me at all. If you are just typing normally its hardly noticeable.

Why are people always so concerned with keyboard flex? Does it actually affect your typing?

 

Dell is not bad, depending on which model you choose. From my personal experience the XPS is neither here or there in terms of quality or price.

You just to remove the X20xs and reseat it, it is far superior to the XPS M1530's keyboard.

 

I'm actually in the market for a X series Thinkpad but it's issues like this and inconsistent quality control that make me think twice.
My first Thinkpad was a X21 and while I can't seem to remember any noticeable keyboard flex on that model there was still considerable flex around the power button/status lights area which made the laptop feel really cheap.
I've used some other Thinkpad's since then and they all had their issues.
It's like a love/hate relationship!
I really like the idea of Thinkpads and where they're trying to go with it but it seems that the implementation always suffers one way or another.

I'm using my girlfriends Apple Powerbook G4 right now which is the best laptop I've used in a long time.
There's no flex anywhere, everything feels high quality and it's been running for 6 years without a problem.
Don't get me wrong, I've had my fair share of problems with Apple laptops and I'm not saying they're better than Thinkpads (especially considering the price premium) but at least once you've found a good Apple model you can usually expect to get the exact same quality when you buy another one of the same model.
Likewise once you've found a bad Apple model you can expect to get equally bad quality if you buy the same model again.
Quality can be good or bad but at least it's consistent which in my experience can't be said about Thinkpads.
I consider variations in quality a flaw and I would not put up with flex anywhere especially if I know that the flex I'm experiencing is not a typical, universal annoyance found on all models of that range even if it may be an easy fix for some like putting a piece of business card or cardboard under the keyboard.

 

^^^ Candid feedback by an informed customer.

Expecting the customers to live with or to fix various annoyances due to inconsistent fit-and-finish and quality control is completely unacceptable, especially in relation to the "premium" ThinkPad models that sell between $1000+ and $2000+.

 

Just as a counterpoint, it was the build quality of the MacBook Pro (virtually the same chassis as the PowerBook G4) which eventually convinced me to make the move to ThinkPads. Between flaking metallic coating, the mushy keyboard, and the chipping plastic on the keys, I got the sense that while the MacBook Pro looked great, it wasn't built anywhere near as solidly.

YMMV though (and it obviously has.)

 

Yes, that's exactly what I've experienced with the Macbook Pro, flaking coating, chipping plastic, flickering screen, etc.
They look the same as Powerbooks but they don't have the same quality.
I was going through 3 different Macbook Pro's until I finally gave up, sold the last one on eBay and started using Powerbook's again.

That proves my point though, we've had the same bad experiences with the same model and I bet these flaws run consistently through every single unit of the same model.

Apple should do more product testing before rushing anything into the market and Lenovo needs to have better quality control.

 

Obviously, things can happen either way to any merchandise by any manufacturer. Making it super easy for the customers to return the merchandise or to have it repaired leads to customer satisfaction and loyalty. Removing the restocking fee is an active part of it. Please don't remind me about "abuses": if you mistrust your customers as a policy, don't do business.

 

Regarding MBP, they are advantages are:

1. Fairly consistent build quality between batch.
2. Fit and finish is better
3. case parts tolerance is better
4. looks cool (that is how i started my MBP addiction when i was in Uni).
5. Everyone knows it is a MBP just by looking at it.
6. Good software support and stability for OSX.

Disadvantages:

1. It is not as strong as people think, the Aluminium frame does actually start to warp when you the laptop with one hand at the corner.
2. Aluminium casing bends and warp easily when dropped.
3. Bad hinge design.
4. Bad thermal management design (placing the vents and cold air intake in the same axis is not such a good idea).
5. Limited upgradability on CPU, etc.
6. The paint flaking is very ugly..

MBP basically needs to live a pampered life, which is something i can't give to a laptop that i use everyday.
---------------------------------

@Kaso... Lenovo would not implement such policies for several reasons:

1. The person (i.e. manager or exec, etc) whom proposes implementing such policies would need to show significant gain in market shares, customer satisfaction in within a fairly short time frame. This is something that most people can't guarantee, as it is a long term thing that may occur over say 3 to 5 years time frame.

2. Most IT company is on a penny pinching cycle, so they are looking for opportunities to increase profitability or cost reduction in a short time, the no restocking fee policy doesn't do neither of these. So it is unlikely to be implemented.

3. Also, there is no guarantee that by implementing such policy that all customers would increase their satisfaction.
-For one thing not all laptops are sold through the online retail channel, some are sold through brick and mortar stores, which have their own unique set of return policy.

-Not all new customers would know about such policies, so they wouldn't really know about it until something goes wrong. If something does go wrong, then there are usually two outcomes, the customers are satisfied with the return policy and continue purchase. OR, the quality of the laptop is such that even when the free return is given, the customers would still think twice about purchasing the same brand of systems (there are several people like this). Also, some people would also not be happy with a time limited free return policy, some have stated that 21 days are too short, why not 30 days or longer, etc.

-Those people whom know about free return policy may use it to their advantages, which adds to cost to the manufacturer and they will be forced to cancel it or pass it through to other customers (as they say there is no such thing as a free lunch).

-I think it is better to promote a reasonable shopping/retail behaviour on the customers behaviour, so they should think before they buy. One should take responsibility for the choices they make. However, if there are actually problems with the machines, then the computer company should allow free return or a direct replacement. On the last note, Lenovo does give a free replacement policy or refund if there are major problems with the laptop, however the process is not straight forward and therefore need to be improved in the future.

 

Disadvantages:

7. EVERYONE in the US has one. I mean geez.... everyone has the same brand laptops (macbooks), wears the same brand clothes (count the number of North Face jackets and UGG women shoes). But now thinking of it, a lot of Europeans own macbooks too; I mostly remember Swiss folks.

It's not a bad laptop (apart from MacOS and the logo, I actually like it), so if you want to blend in... perfect. ^^

 

No kidding. If Lenovo would be able to claim that!

EVERYONE in the US has a thin, light ThinkPad with great screen, no-flex keyboard and no-squeak palmrest.

 

then Lenovo would be the no. 1 company in the laptop/pc industry. This is unlikely with the current marketing and product development strategy.

 

Please include: QUALITY CONTROL and CUSTOMER SERVICE. Your "strategy" thing is too abstract for me.

Lenovo would kill to be in the position that the Mac is enjoying now. I doubt it will ever come close.

 

@Kaso, quality control is the intrinsic part of maintaining consistent quality between batches, maintaining superior fit and finish, and have a tight case part tolerance. I have not had to use the customer care for MBP, but their iphone 4 support is pretty lousy.

 

Why do you keep referring to MBP/iPhone/Apple as the "standard" for Lenovo? I don't praise Apple while kicking Lenovo! As a customer, I want Lenovo to perform better (compared to what it itself has been doing), and Lenovo is responsible for it being excellent, without me or you comparing it to Apple or whatever!

Please, do not use the logic "but Apple is worse" whenever anyone is referring to a bad part of Lenovo.

 

? Sorry i wasn't the one whom started the discussion about MBP, since it was brought up by couple of people so i thought it was worth discussing. Or was i the first person to discuss this on this post?

Lenovo is not the industry leader in the computing business and it is not doing particular well in many parts of the consumer IT business. So there are room for improvements. Therefore it would be wise to analyse what the competitors are doing and understand in what ways they are successful, and how that should apply to their current situation. This is called strategic management/competitor analysis, something that is constantly undertaken by companies.

I am not kicking anyone or bashing anyone with no reasons, what i am presenting is just my own experiences and view, i want to be fair on all accounts when it comes to criticisms and praises.

A company can never be perfect without feedbacks from its customers, while we don't make the final decision for Lenovo, what we can do is make a reasonable assessment of the situation and present that as a feedback to the company if they care to listen.

 

I'm not sure what kind of role you're aspired to in relation to Lenovo. While, in theory, I know what you're referring to ("strategic management/competitor analysis"), I don't understand why a customer (or forum member) must spend the time pretending to do that job -- in a few short paragraphs!

The customers point out the problems or weaknesses, either as they are or in comparison to equivalent products in the industry, and it is totally up to Lenovo to gather the information, recognize the situation and improve itself.

While I've been owning/using a number of ThinkPads over the years, I don't think customers like myself have to be in a position to "defend" for Lenovo.

 

I have about a millimeter of flex at the position of the delete key - pressing the separator depresses the keyboard ever so slightly to the eye. I can't feel this when I'm typing - the keyboard is rock solid, even moreso than the often-removed keybards on my X41 and T22.

I've never found a Thinkpad keyboard with enough flex to bother me, I'm rather surprised that this seems to be a common issue.

 

I think we have diverted too far from the topic of this post. But here is a response to your questions and criticisms as such.

1. I don't talk about strategies all day, i think i would discuss this topic to some people only every once in a while. I am just to share the information i learnt or gathered with everybody, hopefully people would make more justified criticisms towards the product company and understand the difficulties they are facing.

2. Ideally i am here to help people out and learn from others on computer related problems. Additionally, in a perfect world the company from which the person buys the computer or product from, should be dealing with all the aftersale support (including troubleshooting and returns). Yet that is not happening and been shifted to the online social medium, where customers and users are bearing the burden of such support. So one could question these helpful users as too what they are trying to achieve by helping others.

3. I am not advising anyone as such, just a forum member whom wants to share his input with the other people whom care to listen or criticize as such.

4. Regarding, my aspirations and motives regarding Lenovo. Lets put it this way, If i was doing what you think i was trying to do in relation to Lenovo, then i wouldn't be so candid with my view and comments. OR make criticism towards Lenovo (yes i have made quite a few of them, mostly fair and some out of pure frustrations).

5. Also, you think in linear term with clear hierarchical order in what a customer should be or should do. I think on a different term. If companies are pushing into social media to engage with customers on different levels, then surely that customers could provide feedbacks on more than just rudimentary things. Only this way will you truly get the things that you really want and the company truly understands what they are lacking or not providing.

case in point, people are keep on getting worked up on why Lenovo is not sticking with 16:10 or providing IPS, without clear understandings of what sort of business case one has to make to get such things. If one understands the whole supply chain and market dynamic for these sort of parts, then one would understand the difficulties in providing such parts.

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P.S. i point out mistakes in your past posts because i want to get the information correct, but not to attack you or anything. Hopefully you are NOT feeling that i was trying to belittle you or attack you or feeling any slight towards my posts.

 

If you're imagining that Lenovo is "pushing into social media to engage with customers on different levels" with this forum, I say Lenovo is doing a very bad job.

No need for the PS, though. You were trying to have the last best word. I run a business, having no time for that kind of behavior.

 

HAHA! Finally, I'm proud of living in Poland! In my school only ONE person has Mac. They are simply expansive - we, in Poland, learn in elementary school how to count money, so people are just too inteligent to buy Apple's crap
Die, Apple, die! Mwahaha! <satan>

Apple = you pay 2x (or sometimes even more) more just for fancy (crappy) glowing logo on back. OS? Why pay if you, like me, can have Linux, or do what most of my friends does, torrent => Windows => free soft. Build quality? Tell it to my Thinkpad, he(?) WILL laugh ;]]

 

Do people there also learn stealing is ok too?

 

No, but most of don't see anything wrong with piracy ("Why I should pay for something that I can get for free?", my friend said) - This is, unfortunately, the mentality of the Poles
I'm trying to convice more and more people for Linux, but as I said, they don't see any reason to do so.

 

Then those people dont understand the spirit driving innovation. Intellectual property protects innovators and inventors (the human beings that bring about real change to the human existance by generating new knowledge versus the majority of people that simply acquire knowledge). It is an incentive and reward for what they have done.

Piracy is basically stealing because someone worked hard into something and some bum off the street selfishly decides for their own benefit that they deserve that for free. Its actually no different to walking into a dealership and hotwiring a car and drive off.

Actually its the mentality of many people across all citizenship, ethnicity, etc. It boils down to poor ethical upbringing in my opinion as they have somehow established a bad moral viewpoint and belief in life.

Its fine to convince ppl to use linux, which has been freely distributed. Its another thing to still want to use paid services like Windows and Mac (and they are services because they are leasing you a license) without paying. Sorry but if youre cheap or poor, dont use windows. Use linux or other free OSs.

 

It's more like getting into a dealership, making an exact copy of a car, hotwiring and driving off.

 

That is great, so am i and it is not computer or IT related.

 

Complete and utter nonsense. It actually is quite different than walking into a dealership, hot-wiring a car and drive off.

Stealing an object deprives the owner of that object. They no longer have it. They can no longer touch/taste/smell/enjoy it.

Making a copy of a song, image, movie, or idea does not remove the original from the owner. They can still do everything that they could otherwise do with that information.

Rubbish.

Please don't conflate morality and legality.

No single legislative concept has done more to hamper technological progress and innovation than the growth of the concept of "intellectual property", most notably in the software industry.

The "spirit of innovation" is one of incremental improvement: generations of inventors and innovators building upon creative advances of their predecessors, spurred on by the wide dissemination of information. I can hardly think of anything more counter to such iteration than outlawing derivative ideas and imposing crippling fines or lengthy prison sentences on those who reject the notion that a good idea should be held hostage and milked for a lifetime of royalties.

As a fun thought experiment, consider the following: I am willing to wager that at least some part of the software that you [yes, you -- this applies to any reader] have running on your computer right this very second runs afoul of at least one current, valid US patent.

 

lol.

I strongly suggest you go check a dictionary on the term 'stealing'. In short, the act of stealing is to take something without the consent, right, or acknowledgement of the rightful owner. This 'something' can be physical objects, abstract concepts, services, etc.

So in conclusion, no, stealing is not limited to stealing a physical/tangible object. Please. lol.

And so my example of car theft is in many ways the same as illegally taking ownership of software you dont own. A software thief, is not the creator nor owner of said software they stole, but has taken/used this software without the owner's agreement. Thieves who hotwire and steal cars also dont own the cars. Both are cases of stealing.

Luckily for the ordered western establishment, the bottom line is that they seem to agree with my perspective on the issue and not yours because intellectual property and copyright protection extends to concepts and yes even software. And so I guess I can simply leave it at that.

The legal system is essentially founded on the morality of its people and lawmakers with the purpose of establishing order in the society. This is also why different countries with different cultures have different laws because they also have different moral beliefs and perspectives. So they are inescapably related and conflated. Maybe you just need to redefine your understanding on this fact in life.

This again is another example of a difference in fundamental opinion, for which I am again greatful that the current establishment agrees with my general point of view on the matter.

There are times when intellectual property protection can stifles innovation, e.g. when owners refuse to share or charge a heavy premium, but the concept of intellectual property protection is nonetheless important because it is the motivator of innovation and establishes order in our world. You may think the legal system is annoying too but it is there to maintain order because not everyone born into this world is intelligent and/or good hearted. And when you cant guarentee this, you enforce a certain way of life. This is the legal system. Welcome to the real world.

I am a believer that intellectual property needs to be protected and that innovators need to be credited and rewarded (monetarily, by honorable mention, or what have you). I do not believe people should be allowed to run around stealing or plagiarizing other people's work for their own benefit without permission. Yes, btw this is called stealing.

You can feel free moving to a third world country where such laws and world order are not enforced. There you can steal everybodys work all you want.

Your last paragraph is flawed. That is not a thought experiment. Sorry.

 

You had my attention till this point at which you blew it!

The whole crux of your argument appears to be that the "rule of law" exists to provide for and to protect the monetization of an idea, concept, etc. I can't say that your point of view is invalid, but I can certainly point out that it is a very narrow understanding and interpretation of "law" and "justice".

I mean, think about it: Is "law" (or the "rule of law") limited to providing for and protecting the maximization of individual interests? Or, is it a commonly agreed upon (either by an act of legislation, or social contract, or whatever other kind of agreement) "code of conduct" that serves the majority of "common interests"?

I apologise for going OT, but the quoted lines - in my opinion - warranted a response.

 

You're right. It wasn't a thought experiment. It was an example of the absurdity of US patent law.

If the prevalence of copyright and patent violations are any indication, the majority either willfully or accidentally act in a way that runs very much counter to your point of view. Logically, this indicates a flaw in either the principles or the implementation.

The frequency of copyright violation in all "first world" nations makes this line pretty funny.

You are welcome to re-state this as many times as you like, but that doesn't make it correct. Your parallel does not address a fundamental difference: copyright infringement does not deprive a work's creator of the good. Theft of a physical object does.

Let's say you're trying to sell a CD. Let's assume I'm an evil thief with no intention of purchasing the CD from you. If I break in to your house and steal the CD, you no longer have it. My actions have deprived you of that CD. You can no longer listen to it and can no longer sell it. If, on the other hand, I obtain a copy of the data on that CD from another source, you still have that CD. You can still listen to or sell the CD.

Do you genuinely not see the difference?

 

evidently this discussion went off-track on page 3 and no one noticed.

locking this one down.