Keyboards and Build Quality are Forever - or are they?........

Hi everyone

We're all (mostly) ThinkPad owners, users and admirers. So for the good money we paid for them, we appreciate the engineering, build quality, reliability (for the most parts), availability of parts for upgrades/servicing, regular driver updates, etc and of course the world's best laptop keyboard that went into our ThinkPads.

/rant mode ON

However, there seems to be a whiff of snooty, far-fetched arrogance of some who try to play up the durability of ThinkPads by claiming to still be using their obsolete machines.

We're not ignorant of Moore's law here with regards to price/performance/product life cycle of microprocessors. We are also all too aware of the fast changing pace of technology.

We may all admire the build quality, dedication and craftsmanship that went into a beautiful, hand-crafted, bespoke horse and buggy, but we wouldn't use that underpowered transport on our modern superhighways and autobahns (the Armish notwithstanding).

I mean, c'mon! There aren't drivers available (short of those who can whip one up themselves) for say, a Pentium era machine for it to play well in today's computing environment.

So... how many ThinkPad owners actually still use their near decades-old ThinkPads as their workhorse just because they are still in one piece, unlike other brands that have fallen apart within 3 years - and are actually getting by doing real, productive work in today's multi-tasking environment? Single, dedicated use doesn't count. Point-of-Sale machines still use Win 98 and not BSODing in between polling.

tl;dr - Is using a near decades-old ThinkPad for real work an urban legend? Is it even realistic to run current software on obsolete hardware?

I've got my flameproof suit on. So flame away!

/rant mode OFF

 

First of all, nothing lasts forever (the geniuses at Lenovo recently released a quite flexible keyboard and then fixed it). Second of all, not all the world runs Windows. I have several Pentium III Toshiba and HP notebooks that work tirelessly performing specialized (some multi-purpose) tasks using UNIX-like operating systems that fully support the hardware they have (and, sometimes, they support the hardware better than Windows does). While I recently became a ThinkPad convert, other manufacturers are stepping up their game (see Apple’s aluminum frames) and Lenovo will need to continue to innovate if they want to keep their loyal followings.

 

Although not a Lenovo, at work one of my colleagues still uses a powerbook G3 on a daily basis for all manner of things. Mind you, it took him ages to actually use a computer at all, and now he just doesn't want any "new fangled machine" when his old one works just fine.

 

The thing about a product that can last forever in a sea of other products that break in 3 years is that the product that lasts forever is the only one that can last at all when in hard use (for instance, mine once fell from the top of a refrigerator onto a hardwood floor while installing a program...there is a crack in the palmrest but other than that the computer is fine.

 

Physically, it all depends on how much you use it. A 20 year old car with 20K miles is gonna be in a lot better condition than a 20 year old car with 200K miles on it, but both are old and will have problems. My thinkpad spends most of its life in a dock on my desk, venturing out only for occasional business trips or meetings, so it's probably gonna physically last longer than a student's thinkpad that's constantly being schlepped around campuses and coffee shops.

In general, however, I'd say the better build quality of some laptops is more to do with helping the machine withstand day to day abuses that portability tends to generate rather than to prolong overall life.

Overall, IMO, laptops are among the more disposable of computers and are not built to last. Thinkpads are better than most because of the number of FRUs available for them. But ultimately you're not gonna be able to replace anything on the mobo or other key components, so after a few generations the machine is largely useless unless you want to keep running legacy software or use them for specialized stuff.

 

The issue I look at is that while some laptops last forever, newer machines offer some major advantages.

Example --IMHO, every member of the Pentium 4-M/Pentium 4 Mobile family was crap. All were either plagued by mediocre performance, heat issues, or lousy battery life, or a combination of them. At that time, AMD's processors performed better, but did not run any cooler or more power friendly --just look at some of the Athlon XP-based HP Pavilions that used them and you'll find a number of overheat complaints.

It took the Pentium M to really start something in the laptop world, IMO. While I've used P2 and P3 (and P4-M) laptops, the Pentium-M was the first to provide desktop performance with notebook battery life and without running incredibly hot. At this point, the 2nd-gen Dothan Pentium-M is the oldest architecture I'd use in a laptop.

Older laptops are thicker, chunkier, heavier as well. A number of them lack internal WiFi, or have a B-only solution that might not be upgradeable. Displays aren't as bright or sharp. DVD writers aren't available. USB might be 1.1 rather than 2.0. Those are all things to consider.

For what it's worth, 2-3 years ago I sold a ThinkPad 380Don Fleabay with 96MBMB of RAM and a 6GB hard drive. Included a PCMCIA ethernet card. Got $50 for it. It was in perfect physical and operating condition. If you buy business-class laptops, they often outlive their usefulness. If you buy home-class ones, it's 50-50 whether they do that, or wear out first.

 

I purchased a used T23 in spring 2006 and used it happily for 1,5 years. Absence of WLAN bothered me, but it was fixed with a PCMCIA adapter. Then i sold it aftery buying a gaming laptop.

Now i just bought a used T60 which has 15 days left of it's 3 year warranty. Other than it's Core Duo T2060 running a bit hot, this thing works just fine.

 

I guess it depends on your uses of the laptop. If I had to run say Visual Studio and I was a developer I would defenetly go for a newer machine because I need a lot of horsepower for something like Visual Studeo and Vista. But if I were using the machine just to type documents and surf the web, I see nothing wrong with using an older machine with Linux on it. This works very well and in many cases is a very economical choice.

 

Yea. competitors are stepping up their game. if they dont go beyond simple due dilligence they will be surpassed or lose customer base. i.e. they need to hire more anal perfectionists in their team

and yea it takes close to nothing in system requirments to run linux so old machines can probably do ok.

 

Also note that the cheap price of entry-level laptops now means that laptops are no longer the commodity they were.

Dell's entry-level Inspiron 15 is a jaw-dropping $349. Admittedly, it's a single-core Celeron M processor and a bit stripped, but compare the specs to something three years old and used, and it doesn't seem bad at all. You can up it to dual-core and still come in at $389.

Lenovo's budget G530 has a dual-core processor, three gigs of RAM, a DVD writer, a 250GB hard drive, webcam, and a six-cell battery. It comes with Vista Home Premium, and runs $499. When you consider that many people on Craigslist are trying to sell their 2-3 year old budget laptops for $300 and have no warranty, there's really no comparison.

 

I used my T40 for 5 years before giving it to a friend. It still performed admirably for office and internet based tasks.

Naturally gaming and media encoding proved impractical after 2-3 years time, but that is what my desktop and consoles are for.

As long as your expectations of a laptop's duties are moderate, several years of service is quite possible. I plan on using my x200 Tablet for at least 3 years and quite possibly far longer.

 

For me, as long as a laptop can stand up to year and a half of use without developing cracks in the plastics, wobbly display hinges and pressure discolorations in the panel, it is okay. After year and a half I always sell the laptop while it still has some value and buy a newer one.

I never understood why anybody would keep their laptop for 5+ years. After all it is a computer that is underging more heat cycles than a desktop, is exposed to more vibrations and mechanical stress, etc. I would rather not risk increased probability of failure due to age. Plus obsolete tech is obsolete, there is always something better coming out.

Thinkpad users strike me as super conservative bunch. Even minor stuff like slightly changing keyboard layout in T400s have spawned a bunch of threads all over the place complaining about it and remembering the glory days of T40 series.

 

Whilst I agree with you on the most part, I disagree on this. What is obsolete to one person might be perfectly fine for another.

Take a look at me vs say my parents.

Now my father is a retired computer programmer. He doesn't use his machine for anything other than posting on a few forums and looking at review sites. My mother is a nurse, and the fews hours of the day she does spend on a computer, it is inevitably on eBay, buying more junk that my father will have to find room for.

They would be happy with my old Advent whatever model it was that is now 4 years old.

I on the other hand use my notebook heavily in a work environment; regularly having huge photoshop images open and modifying them, analysing massive spreadsheets and interrogating large databases. Then at home I might surf a bit on the net, watch some streaming content, play a bit on Crysis, deadspace or Hawx.

That same machine that they use wouldn't cut the mustard.

Well guess what. The machine they use, is my old one.

Just because it's obsolete by todays standards, does not mean it cannot do for some people. It wouldn't deal with the stresses I put my computers under, but it would do them, and a million others like them; and probably for another good few years.

"If it isn't broken, why fix it", is their moto.
Mine is "can't it go any faster"

Both are perfectly valid.

 

My family has had a member of the ThinkPad X series for over a decade. Dad was issued a 380XD from the accounting firm he worked at. Windows 98 1st edition (hahaha) and it's mighty ONE SINGLE USB 1.1 port (and thank God it had that). It was his work computer (for home) until probably 2000. Dad's boss just gave it to him/me. It was used for assorted internet (dial up, never tried a PC card or ye olden USB for Ethernet let alone WiFi) and MS Word fun as essentially the house computer. We never went for anything else because well we didn't have the needs for it. fall 2004 we finally got a new HP desktop because well it was time: broadband, iPods, and Half Life 2 were on the horizon. I was a senior in high school when I got a modern computer. i got my Acer laptop for college and loved that thing... for 3 years. The battery/motherboard hyjinx relegated it to always plugged in. Meanwhile Dad had continued using the 380XDfor taking notes for his tax clients (side business from home). It worked fine for that 1 single purpose. He was more than happy to take the Acer this past fall to use as his "portable" note machine. What's funny is the XD wasn't done yet... a little cousin of mine in high school has borrowed it on several occasions when he needed a portable MS Word device.

That is what we call a very reliable machine (insert joke about Windows 98 here). But it was way past its prime and was basically a joke in how little it could do.

I certainly agree with your car analogy. I drive a '94 Honda Accord that only has 140,000 miles on it. You wouldn't know it based on the problems that just old cars of that time had. Ie craptacular air conditioning because 94 was the first model year that by law couldn't use the incredibly toxic and incredibly cold Freon, prone to fogging up easily I'm talking like lover's lane fogged upwith one person in the car for 5 minutes unless you fool with the AC, known defect on rear quarter panels rusting out prematurely because rain collects in them (a fact Honda denies to this day despite every Accord from that era that I've seen do that). Not to mention just general stuff- I had to put in a CD player (and nowawdays that's obsolete because not audio inputs), cloth seats firm to the point of discomfort, various stains and discolorations, and the basic feeling of driving and handling of just rough in comparison to cars that came later.

It still drives well and I'm a graduate with no job so I'm not getting rid of it right this second. It gets the job of getting me around done. When that job changes though, when I get a job I have to drive a respectable car to, well we'll see whether I keep it.

 

Actually I am still using a Thinkpad 600E, probably 10 years old at this point. It makes a wonderful machine for downloading files. I have DSL speed so if I want to download a Linux distro it takes a while.

I also use it as a laptop,that is when I am outside watching the birds I will write or web surf. I use firefox and noscript so I don't the all the annoying movies, flash scripts etc. Best of all I have picked up working 600e's (and a 600x) off of craigslist for around $50.00 each.

Much to my pleasant surprise it keeps working (although I have put in a larger hard drive), although the screen is a bit red at power on, within 20 seconds whites are back to being white.