Lenovo Customer Service Tragedy

It is with a heavy heart that I post this story here, as I have been a
loyal and longstanding Thinkpad customer for over a decade, purchasing
numerous Thinkpads from IBM, and one just lately from Lenovo. I have
recommended IBM/Lenovo stock to all my friends and family who dabble
in the market, and I have also recommended the Thinkpad line of
laptops to anyone and everyone that I have had occasion to discuss
laptops with.

However, it is with my most recent purchase from Lenovo that I have
encountered a problem of the most horrible proportions. I in no way
wish to bog anyone down with unrelated details; however, the entire
experience I've had is a long one, spanning many frustrating months of
interaction with the Customer Service agents within Lenovo.

Due to this most recent experience with Lenovo, (outlined in full
below) I can no longer in good conscious continue to do business with
or recommend Lenovo's products and services. Since no one within
Lenovo can rectify the matter, I will be taking my business elsewhere,
as will my friends, family and coworkers. (Including my place of
employment)

Anyone who is interested in further details (aside from whats outlined
below) please feel free to contact me via e-mail at [email protected]
- I'm more than happy to provide my contact information and telephone
number should anyone wish to discuss this matter in a more thorough
fashion.

For those of you who are interested, my story in it's entirety is as
follows:

----

I ordered a T60 back in June. I was more than happy to wait the month
required for the laptop to be built and shipped to me from Hong Kong,
and I eagerly awaited it's arrival.

Much to my dismay, when it did finally arrive, it came sans battery
and power cord! I promptly called Lenovo and was informed by a
customer service rep that I would have to wait _another_ 3 to 4 weeks
to have the power cord and battery that was supposed to have been in
the initial order shipped to me. I can understand needing to wait a
month for a laptop to be built, but shouldn't they have spare power
cords & batteries handy?

Anywho, I called around locally to numerous retail outlets and
searched through classified ads to see if I could find an alternate
Thinkpad locally. It wouldn't be built to the initial specs I wanted,
but at least it would be a thinkpad.

Luckily I found one, again - not up to the specs I really wanted, but
at that point it seemed better to sacrifice some speed for the ability
to at least have it rightaway.

I figured I would simply purchase this laptop locally and return the
one I got directly from Lenovo - no big deal.

I called up Lenovo Customer Support again and spoke to a lady who
spoke very good Enligsh, I wasn't really able to decipher for certain
if she was from some outsourced call center or not... Anyway, I
informed her of the mixup that occured and stated I simply wanted to
return the machine back to Lenovo as I had already purchased an
alternate Thinkpad elsewhere.

She happily obliged (this is where the whole thing gets 'interesting')
and asked me if I had the original box that I received the laptop in.
I replied that yes, I did and asked why she asked. "Simply repackage
the laptop in it's original box and drop it off at a UPS store." was
her answer.

This struck me as odd, she made no mention of an RMA number or
anything. I asked her if I needed some sort of 'return number' and she
replied that the initial box the laptop was shipped to me in had my
Lenovo order number plainly upon it, and that thats what would be
used, not any sort of RMA number."

OK, so no RMA number - thats weird but I guess it makes sense. I
*thought* they'd be sending me a box or something to send it back in.
I asked her if I was supposed to pay for shipping, and she responded
with "Oh, no, just 'return to sender.' Wait WHAT?

"Just Return To Sender" she said again. I asked her to clarify what
she meant by that, thinking she just meant "Return the laptop to
Lenovo." No, she replied back with: "Write Return To Sender on the
shipping label and take it to a UPS store." "What about a tracking
number? What about Insurance?" I asked. "Tracking number will be
Tracking Number we gave you at first, package will still be insured."

Ok, that sounded really odd - like no other return procedure I've ever
dealt with in my life, which I guess hasn't been all that many, but
even still it was just a seemingly odd way to go about it.

So supposedly my RMA number was my Lenovo order number, my tracking
number would be the tracking number I already had on hand and the
package was insured. Like I said, I thought this seemed pretty weird,
but it sounded like all my bases were covered. Even so I ran over the
whole thing all over again with the Lenovo rep and got the same reply.
Good enough - as long as they get the laptop back there won't be a
problem I figured.

So I did as instructed and wrote 'return to sender' on the package and
dropped it off at a UPS store.

I waited... and waited... and waited... about two to three weeks later
I called back in and inquired as to the status of the whole thing. "We
have no record of you ever having called, that is not the correct
return procedure, I'm very sorry but there is nothing more we can do
to help you - *click*" was what I was told. They just hung up on me!

Ok, now I'm a little peeved, so I call back and try to figure out what
on earth happened. Again, I'm told they have no record of me ever
having called and no record of my machine. Although they didn't hang
up on me the second time around, I was unable to get any straight
answer as to what happened. I asked to speak to a supervisor only to
be told that there was no supervisor. Now thats just ridiculous,
EVERYONE has a supervisor. I again demanded a supervisor, and again
was there was no supervisor. This went on for a good five minutes till
the story changed to "the supervisor is not present." I then requested
a call back from a supervisor, gave my name, order number(rma number?)
and my cell phone number.

24 hours go by, 48 hours go by, 72 hours go by... Finally Friday hit
and no one called back. At this point I was utterly PO'd about the
whole deal, having already sent the machine back to Lenovo and with
Lenovo not even acknowledging that I had done so, it seemed like I
wouldn't be able to make any further progress by trying to call them
back and being upset.

I called up my credit card company instead, told them what happened
and they told me they would initiate a chargeback on my behalf and
that I shouldn't worry about it.

At this point I was pleased that at least someone was capable of
remedying this situation. I let it the whole matter go assuming it to
be resolved... Up until I received a call from my CC company wanting
written details of what happened for their records. I promptly
complied and didn't think much of it as it was simply a form letter
which looked pretty routine.

A day or so passes and I receive my first of many phone calls from
Tony Bumarch in Lenovo Executive Customer Relations. Mr Bumarch was
exceedingly polite; however, entirely unsympathetic to what had
occurred. He told me that they showed no record of me having called to
initiate the return process and therefore I must never have called.

I most certainly did call, and I've actually run into this similar
situation with my cell phone company. One rep @ Cingular will tell me
something but not notate my account of what was discussed, so when I
call back in the second time around, no one knows what I'm talking
about. A common problem I assume, as I've heard other people complain
about the exact same thing with Cingular and other cellular companies.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would run into this problem
with a Computer Company tho - I honestly didn't even think to request
that the lady I initially spoke to @ Lenovo notate my account
detailing what was discussed concerning the return policy.

Mr Bumarch tells me there isn't much he can do and instructs me to
call the UPS store that I dropped the package off at. The UPS store I
dropped the package off at instructs me to call UPS, UPS instructs me
to call Lenovo, and Lenovo again instructs me to contact UPS. (I'm
sure you can all see where this is going by now..) Round and round it
goes till I get upset and Mr Bumarch tells me HE will call the UPS
store on my behalf while I wait on hold. I wait on hold and Mr Bumarch
comes back on the phone and says that it sounds like the UPS store
might have a way to track my package as having gone out and that I
should call the UPS store and talk to the owner.

I call the UPS store and spoke to the exact same lady Mr Bumarch just
spoke with moments before. She informs me there there is absolutely no
way to track outbound packages dropped off at the UPS store unless
that UPS store sent it out with one of their shipping labels. THEN she
tells me that she just told Mr Bumarch this moments ago and asked why
I was calling back asking the SAME question! Why on earth would Mr
Bumarch instruct me to call the UPS store when he himself just spoke
to them and they told him that they could not track an outbound
package unless it was sent with that UPS store's shipping label?!

I call Mr Bumarch back and ask him why he gave me the misleading
information, only to be told by HIM that the UPS store employee did
not tell him what she told me, DESPITE the UPS store employee telling
me just moments after she spoke to me that she informed him of this.
(argh!@#%%)

I told Mr Bumarch that I resented the endless games of phone-tag I've
been playing with him, and the additional run around he's made me go
through with UPS and that it's to the point where it sounds like I
need to file some sort of complaint with the BBB.

His response?

"All the BBB complaints are routed through myself, so I'll be sure to
tell the BBB exactly what I'm telling you." (This was said in a
polite, yet condescending tone)

That being: Since they had no record of me calling to return the
laptop, I must never have done so.

Oh, and by this point my CC company said that the dispute was over and
Lenovo had successfully fought the chargeback off because I could not
provide a tracking number other than the initial tracking number on
the box that was shipped to me in...

So, at this point I do not have the laptop I payed $1600 for, and I'll
I've got to show for this entire experience is a massive headache from
dealing with Lenovo's customer care.

Realizing I was getting absolutely nowhere with Tony Bumarch in
executive care, I placed e-mails detailing this horror story to
numerous executives inside Lenovo, namely among them was 'David
Churbuck' VP of sales and marketing.

David Churbuck expressed via e-mail initial interest in looking into
my case, but I never heard back from him. When I e-mailed him again, I
got what seemed like a form letter (although I'm sure it was not)
simply stating "I am not responsible for looking into this, Tony
Bumarch is handling your case."

So a complete about-face was done, leaving my sole source of contact
within Lenovo to Mr Bumarch, who was entirely unsympathetic to my
situation and had just recently told me in no uncertain terms that the
case was closed.

I filed a complaint with the BBB anyway - Lenovo's response? "Customer
Never Sent the Equipment Back To Us"

So Lenovo's offical response is that I'm a liar and that I should be
expected to simply eat this $1600 fee for a laptop I already returned
to them!

Oh, here are some additional points I think I may have neglected to
mention:

I requested that some sort of audit be done at the Lenovo returns
center to see if someone could find my machine. Lenovo's response?
Thats a wildly unreasonable request. I was also told that unauthorized
returns are promptly refurbished and re-sold with a matter of weeks,
leaving me with the conclusion that it's entirely possible that Lenovo
simply refurbished (slapped a battery and power cable with the
machine) and resold it to someone else.

I was told that this situation would never have occurred, as Lenovo
has a strict guideline that they follow for refurbished machines.
<sarcasm> If said guideline is anything like their return policy
guidelines, I'm sure it's always followed to the letter every single
time</sarcasm>

Oh, and I was also told that "no one within Lenovo would ever instruct
you to return a machine in that manner," Which is entirely laughable,
as thats exactly what occurred! I'm left to conclude that Lenovo's
reps are probably underpayed and overworked, and as a result don't
take all that much pride in memorizing and reciting corporate policies
without fail each and every time.

Due to the above excuse being cited over and over, no one within
Lenovo will even take responsibility for giving me the incorrect
information on how to go about returning a machine to them. I didn't
even get an "I'm sorry" out of Mr Bumarch. He DID go so far as to say
he'll issue a company wide memo re-iterating the correct return
procedures to the front line Lenovo reps, but I suspect this was
simply to placate me, as later I got a reply from him via the BBB that
bluntly insinuated that I was just a big liar.

And after speaking with Mr Bumarch, I wasn't even demanding a refund
at that point, I told him I would settle simply for the return of the
machine I sent to them, but since no one will go out of their way to
look for it, that doesn't seem possible either.

Holy geez, this is a long winded post. I'm sorry, but thank you for
reading over it. I would appreciate anyone's input on what I could
possibly do to try and rectify this nightmare.

To sum the whole thing up, it feels like Lenovo lied to me, stole my
money and told me to simply 'go away.'

I dearly love my thinkpads, and I really hate to feel like I can never
purchase another one from Lenovo again based upon this hellish
experience.

---

For those of you that have come this far, you may also be interested
in looking at:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=49134

As contained therein, there is another individual (entirely seperate
from myself) who says that he too was advised of the incorrect return
procedure in the exact same manner that I was when he called in to
speak to Lenovo Customer Care. This appears to be an ongoing issue for
numerous people, and I'm very disappointed that Lenovo will not even
acknowledge it.

Anyone's feedback on the matter is greatly appreciated, and thank you
for taking the time to read this over.

 

Can you provide us with the "reader's digest" version? I don't think many will read that novel.

 

Its not that long and its an interesting read.

He bought a T61. Called lenovo to make a return. Lenovo said "write return to sender on the box and drop it off at UPS store" He asked, what about RMA, what about tracking info. Lenovo says "tracking # will be the same as before , RMA number will be your order number" So he dropped it off at a UPS store and now Lenovo says they never recieved the package, they have no info of the package, and to have a good day. Original poster is out the money he spent on his T61 and it doesn't look like he will ever get it back.

If you've returned a thinkpad before you will know that that isn't the correct procedure and the original poster was given an incorrect and wildly retarded protocol for returning this thinkpad. Thus the thinkpad is now lost in space. Lenovo doesn't have it so they wont give his money back, credit card company says the fault is on him, and he is at a loss for what to do.

I read your story over at thinkpads.com where it started off, there has been no progress at all I assume? Did you get a bill from your phone company showing the call you made to lenovo, did you show that to Tony?

 

Just read your post, I have dealt with Tony twice (two seperate occasions) and after harrasing the hell out of him I got him to give me a refund.


Your case seems very weird, I cannot imagine that a UPS store would allow you to write RETURN TO SENDER and send the box out. It seems like Lenovo and the UPS store are both negligent.

Lenovo has a point they cannot verify that you sent out the package since they have no record of it, I have never heard of the return procedure you outlined but I guess its possible.

Your only option at this point is to have the UPS store pull the tapes from when you were in there so that you can prove that you indeed dropped a package off and that it was stolen in transit (which is probably what happened due to their not being a tracking number). It was probably taken by an employee that worked at the UPS Store you were at.

Write a certified letter demanding payment for the returned computer to Lenovo, and then attempt to sue via small claims. Lenovo will probably settle since it is not worth their while to send someone to represent them for 1600.00.

 

ok, i read it all. Your cell company can provide the time, date, and length of your call, so ask them for it (you might have to pay for it, idk, prob. not). Then call the Supervisor back with it. Also, legal action? i mean it is $1600. keep me posted.

 

oh yea, i agree with smooth, ask for they're tapes.

 

Exactly. I agree with OP but you must admit, you knew it was a bad way to return an item as it was incredibly unorthodox. Request the tape and proceed from there.

 

Stories like these scare me.

 

and yes, definitely contact your phone carrier for the time and length of the call.

 

The UPS store isn't going to hand over store tapes to random customer #55864A you will have better luck trying to get proof from the phone company that you were actually on the phone with Lenovo when you said you were. Since that is what Tony was holding you to, its a good place to start.

 

You first ask them nicely if they do not comply, then you file a police report since your computer has been stolen. They will be required to hand over the tapes.

 

As someone had pointed out earlier you should have a receipt from UPS for dropping off the item. Unless there's some proof you can show that you actually sent something there really isnt much to go on unfortunately.

Not that I dont think something like this can happen but let me play Devil's advocate for second if you will:
I mean it would be a good way for some joe to rip off a company - received a new lappie, call and say its missing some parts, turns down offer for missing parts to be shipped saying he'll get another laptop instead...make up a package containing the original box sans laptop marked 'return to sender" and drop it off at UPS. Calls back to the company in a few weeks and say where's my refund for the laptop I returned?
Again I'm just playin devils advocate...

 

you must have known that it was the wrong return policy. i would have never just write return to sender on a 1600 dollar laptop and just hand it over to UPS. anyone could have taken this machine and no one would ever know because u didnt actually file a an RMA with lenovo. i know it is the reps fault for giving you a false return process but it is partly your mistake because you should have known you would need an RMA number or at least pay for shipping it back. if i paid 1600 for a laptop i would be willing to spend the money to get a tracking number to make sure where it goes.

sorry if im rude but IMO its not entirely lenovos fault they dont have control over what each rep tells their customers.

Your story shows that no matter what you should request an RMA number and/or confirm that your call has been noted to your account (not that you could actually tell)

 

Yes they do. It's Lenovo's fault for overworking, underpaying, and undertraining their staff.

 

If Lenovo can't control what their reps say, they should put, in big BOLD letters, "STOP! Before you return this system, you must acquire a RMA number from a Lenovo Sales Support Representative. Not all sales are fully refundable".

Something like that at least.

 

this is all basically water under the bridge, the OP, Lenovo, and the UPS store all made mistakes. More of the blame should be put on Lenovo and UPS, but pointing fingers at this point is really not going to get the OP's refund/computer back. The only thing that can be done at this point is investigate what happened to the computer (long shot). If UPS accepted a package that said return to sender then the person who took the computer must have had an alterior motive.

 

true but if it was me i would demand an RMA number or at the very least pay for shipping. for something that cost that much money i would definatly make sure i knew where it is and where its going via the tracking number. writing "return to sender" is for something like a letter sent to the wrong address not for a 1600 dollar laptop :|

 

I didn't read that whole novel, so don't know if I agree with what you said or not exactly. But...

I do have only the utmost hate and disappointment for their tech support and Lenovo in general. Not only is their support utter and complete crap, but the actual build quality of my Thinkpad is flat out bad.

It's funny cuz I see all these people *****ing about how Acers are cheap and built like crap and how Dell's support is bad, but when I compare my past Acer/Dell experiences, Lenovo doesn't even come close to matching them.

So I'm with you, as in I'll never ever ever get another Lenovo nor recommend it to family and friends. I'll take those "cheap" Acers with their "bad" support over this complete BS of a company that Lenovo is.

 

as far as I remember whenever I called Lenovo . I heard that message saying "this call may be recorded for training and quality ...... ". so ask them to listen to the tape for that day/time and Sales Rep

 

Knowing what I know now about Lenovo, I would have requested a signature from Lenovo when the notebook was picked up.

 

You gotta take responsibility for your own actions at some point. I would never hand a package worth hundreds (or thousands!) of dollars over to a random UPS Store employee without some type of receipt.

 

I would insure it too , it only cost 20-30 dollars and a good proof of having Tracking # as well

 

Hah. I think someone at the UPS store got a free laptop. If someone dropped off a laptop marked "Return to sender" at any UPS store I've been in, I know half the employees would walk it "to the back"(aka their car) in a heartbeat. No tracking #, no entry into the system, AND the wrong procedure("Return to sender"? After shipment has been accepted? HAH!)

FWIW, OP goofed by not getting a UPS Receipt. UPS goofed by not telling him that it's not standard procedure to "Ship" things that way. Lenovo goofed by telling him wrong info. Sad part is, he's probably out of luck on this one

 

if he can prove the conversation happened, the lenovo rep, and therefore lenovo, is at fault for this mix up. Whether or not a ups employee stole the laptop is irrelevant.

 

Huh? Even if he can prove it happened (probable) AND the rep said what he/she said(less probable) - It's still UPS' and OP's fault for their mistakes too.

 

How can he prove that the Lenovo rep told him this? Even if he has the phone call history there is no way he can prove this, unless Lenovo had it recorded etc. Lenovo shows no call so it would be very unlikely to get an admission from whoever told him this. Best bet is to find who stole it, or take Lenovo to small claims and hope that they settle.

 

Nasty one that. I guess the lesson to take from this is to trust your instinct.

So much about what transpired (in those early crucial stages) just felt sooo wrong: A phone rep stating no RMA required; a UPS rep stating no new label required. I don't care what those people might have said, their statements just felt so off-base, and the OP's apparent unease at what was happening should have been heeded.

I know, I know, benefit of hindsight, and all that.

Hopefully, some resolution can be found to this sorry tale.

 

Neither Tony Bumarch or David Churbuck will even respond to my e-mails at this point, so I'm getting the 'cold shoulder' from everyone who is in a position to assist with this situation.

I can't even get an APOLOGY out of these people, nor will they even acknowledge that such a problem could occur, did occur and will undoubtedly occur again.

I'd love to believe that simply faxing my phone records to Mr Bumarch would be of assistance in resolving this, but considering he won't even return my e-mails, I'm highly skeptical that this will work.

I do however have the phone records to prove that I called when I said I did, so faxing them over would be no problem whatsoever - but without even the ability to communicate with Mr Bumarch to ask if this would help any, it seems rather pointless to just fax him my cell phone bill. (He will not answer his direct phone number, and it would seem he's just ignoring all my e-mails...)

I am extremely disappointed with Lenovo's customer service, and their executive customer relations. For those of you suggesting small claims court, does anyone have any actual experience with small claims court?

Given my position, I'm lacking a valid tracking number, so if I were to sue and lose due to lack of 'evidence,' wouldn't I end up having to pay Lenovo's legal fees? I can't fathom letting Lenovo rip me off for anymore money than they already have...

I really appreciate everyone's input, and if nothing else, I would really like for this miserable situation to result in the re-vamping of Lenovo's customer service re: relaying proper return procedures so no one else has to be put through what I've been put through ever again.

 

And on a quick side note, (Just to clarify) the UPS store employees played no part in advising me of any incorrect information - I simply dropped the package off at the UPS store, (as per the instructions given to me by the Lenovo Customer Service Agent I spoke to) and the employee glanced at it and put it with the other packages to be picked up by the UPS driver that day... So no red flags were raised at the UPS store by me returning a package via 'return to sender,' I assume because other people probably return packages this way often enough to not have it be the strangest thing in the world to them.

To the poster who mentioned he had similar dealings with Mr Bumarch and had to 'harass' him in order to get a proper resolution - what exactly did that entail? I've been told by Mr Bumarch in no uncertain terms that I'm simply out of luck - do you really think leaving daily voicemails/e-mails will further my cause?

According to Mr Bumarch no one within Lenovo could ever possibly make a mistake such as this, and every single policy set forth by Lenovo is handled by their customer service reps to the letter each and every time no matter what - a statement which is obviously false, as on the forum.thinkpads.com post I made regarding this same issue there was another person, completely unrelated to myself, that stated he too was advised of the *exact* same incorrect return procedure that I was! Not to mention all the other people on the internet who have relayed experiences with Lenovo customer service agents wherein they've been lied to about everything ranging from the build specs of their laptops to ordering procedures to delivery dates and times.

Bringing this (cordially) to Mr Bumarch's attention netted me no response whatsoever, so Lenovo's official solution to this debacle seems to be ignoring me and hoping I go away.

 

I dont blame you for the frustration you're goin thru but really this could all have been avoided. Your spidey sense was tingling when the CSR explained the improper return procedure to you. What does it take to just hang up and call another CSR to double check? Besides you found these forums, why didn't you come here and ask if such a procedure is normal? If anyone would know its the regulars here. Infact you needn't even have to post, just do a simple search and you'll see threads about 'proper return procedures'.

Furthermore, its bad enough to have a incompetent CSR relaying bad info but to have UPS accepting a package marked 'return to sender' and not giving a receipt of any kind or tracking slip?? You can see why its a bit hard to swallow what happened.
I mean whats to stop a dishonest customer from using the same story and claiming he returned his laptop when he actually has it all along and in fine working condition? I bet scams like that happen more often than not.

 

royco, I got screwed by Lenovo and Mr. Bumarch too.
Welcome to the club.

It's now in dispute with the credit company.

Lenovo sucks and I don't think too highly of Tony either.

On the plus side, I just got my new HP 8510W and it blows the doors off that POS T61P.

 

Although $1600 is a *huge* deal to me, I'm doing my best to put it all into perspective, and it's not the end of the world. It is however a *gigantic* issue of principle.

I realize I goofed up big time, I totally admit my part in not listening to my gut feeling that something was really wrong with the return procedure being conveyed to me and I should have looked into it further rather than blindly trusting the Lenovo agent I spoke to - however on the flip side of the coin, Lenovo will not even admit that this situation could have even occurred to begin with!

I've sort of already resigned myself to the loss, given Lenovo's horrible/indifferent response to my situation, but you know, I'd even be willing to eat this loss and consider it a very expensive lesson learned if Lenovo could just own up to the mistake they made which set this entire problem into motion, issue a sincere apology and use this terrible experience as an opportunity to revamp their customer service policies regarding conveying return procedures to customers.

At least I'd have the satisfaction of being able to say "I messed up, got screwed over by Lenovo, but my misfortune was not in vain, I was, if nothing else, able to help ensure that no one else would ever have to suffer a similar fate."

I really don't think it's asking too much to expect Lenovo to admit a mistake occurred on both ends (Mine and theirs) and learn from it so other people don't have the same problem.

As I've said, Mr Bumarch will not even *admit* there is a problem, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary that poorly trained Lenovo customer service agents have made a habit out of just giving mis-information to their customers when they don't know the proper procedure to convey.

If they don't know the correct answer to something, they should look into it, not just spout off whatever sounds like it might work.

I would strongly encourage anyone interested in contributing the betterment of Lenovo customer service as a whole to call up Mr Bumarch (# 919-257-4816 and/or 919-543-6681) or shoot him an e-mail ([email protected]) and reference this internet post and request that even if nothing can be done to help me in particular, that a problem clearly exists and should be dealt with so it doesn't happen again to other people.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's easy for people to say "Well I'd never do that," but I guarantee there are more than a few people out there that if put in the exact same situation I was, and told the exact same mis-information I was, would undoubtedly fall into the same pitfall that I did.

 

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. You have owned up to your mistake, and it takes a strong person to admit they are wrong...this however does not work in the corporate world. If Lenovo admitted they were wrong, they would automatically be liable for your loss. Any written apology or statement admitting of guilt would make Lenovo liable for any wrong doing in court, so of course they will deny they have done anything wrong even if you do not expect them to pay for the mistake. I hope you find some resolution in this matter...maybe call up some media outlet and get your story out....nothing hurts a corporation like bad press.

 

Something about this whole story just doesn't smell right.

1) Lenovo would never allow you to send back a laptop without issuing you an RMA.

2) Your laptop was shipped out directly from Lenovo's factory in China. Lenovo would have to provide you with a U.S. domestic return address.

3) UPS would never accept a package without you making some form of payment, and giving you some form of receipt indicating that your package was accepted by UPS.


I'm sorry, your story just sounds to incredulous.

 

There have been MULTIPLE complaints about the CSRs at Lenovo. They have been making all sorts of mistakes. Most notably giving out wrong information. While this is the first I've heard of this particular issue, I'm not surprised. Saying that "Lenovo would never..." is just silly. Lenovo isn't one person. It's represented by many customer service representatives. Many of them really just don't seem to care. No one can possibly say that each of them would "never" act in a particular manner.

UPS didn't ever really accept the package. He just dropped it off without speaking to them. That was his mistake. He should talked to them to make sure this was proper and should have got a receipt.

I think this guy's story is probably mostly true. I can also see how people would just do what they are told by CSRs. They are suppose to know what that are talking about. However, I don't think the outcome will ever be positive for him.

If he was trying to scam Lenovo and failed, I don't think he would have bothered posting all of this. If he is lying, none of our responses are going to help him get a free laptop or refund.

 

Exactly. If he was trying to scam Lenovo, the last thing he would do is post on this forum and take his time to participate in this thread.

 

Actually I'm more inclined to think the opposite. Not suggesting here who is guilty or not because obviously theres no way we can know that given the lack of paper trail and records.
Just think 'corporate blackmail':

Customer: I returned my thinkpad weeks ago and still waiting for my refund
Bumarch: where's your rma?
Customer: I didnt get one
Bumarch: Then I'm sorry there's nothing we can do for you
Customer: omg...
customer pleads but Bumarch stands firm
Customer: You're leaving me no choice but to goto the forums. Negative pub for a company as you know is hugely damaging. All I want is an apology and my refund.
Bumarch:......

 

I love how when someone comes in with legit complaints about Lenovo you all say he's a lier.

I can attest from personal experience that Lenovo is borderline criminal in their behavior. There's little doubt that Lenovo is going to end up in a class action sooner than later about their business practices.

I feel for you royco and I think your story is totally true. It doesn't surprise me a bit

 

Its funny how the roaches come out the woodwork when theres a negative customer service thread. All you've pointed out is your own experience which while negative and possibly legit it adds nothing to this thread. Has a CSR ever told you to return something w/o an RMA? If so then sure your experience has relevance here otherwise you're just hating.

You're not the only one with a bad experience with Lenovo , there's numerous other ppl even Stallen above. But I think Stallen is a lot more credible...but you dont see him going around telling everyone that lenovo is the devil.

I would just be as wary of someone who comes on and praises Lenovo till no end, think they can do no wrong and never fails to remind everyone how great Lenovo is. A poster like that to me just loses their credibility fast as it only shows they have an agenda of their own...or they really need to get a life.

 

well just to post my two cents worth i havent really had to RMA many things but the ones that i did i was sure to get a tracking number from whoever i ship it through. from my experiences i believe that anything thats over say $50 should have a tracking number confirmation. even if the CSR gave you the wrong return procedure i would have still made sure i got a receipt with a tracking number.

I really doubt that it was even recieved by lenovo because it couldnt have been returned to sender all the way back to Hong Kong.

I think that the only thing to be had from Royco's experience is to always make sure to get some sort of proof that you dropped the package off wherever you dropped the package off at. it wouldn't even go through small claims court then you would be out more money by filing that.

even if lenovo is at fault for this whole ordeal you would have gotten your money back no problem whatsoever if you had some sort of receipt from ups or better yet a tracking number.

Always ALWAYS lose out on like that $30 or however much and get some sort of confirmation that you did ACTUALLY ship it back to them.

 

This is a legit complaint?

How old is this guy? And did he even graduate from high school? I just can't believe any sane person would walk into a UPS store and just drop off an expensive package at the counter, and not speaking to any clerk, and expect UPS to deliver it to whoever the package is intended for. This whole story just sounds ludicrous.


Picture this scenario. The government expects you to pay $100 in property tax. And you just walk into a UPS store, drop off a $100 note (placed inside an envelope that says return to IRS) and without speaking to any clerk, you expect UPS to deliver that $100 note to the IRS. And when the IRS tells you that they never received your $100 note, you come here to this forum crying foul that big brother is trying to rip you off. This just sounds unreal. I wish I can use this line of defense when I don't want to pay my taxes.

 

i think that his story is totally legit but it was a big big mistake on Royco because all he needed was some kind of receipt that it was actually left at ups and everything would have been fine. lenovo should have better training for reps but im sure they must go through alot of reps it cant be a very fun job answering hundreds of calls a day to all different types of people.

the average person that works as a call rep for any company probably doesnt know crap about computers (or whatever they are selling) they just work there to make some money to live they dont care what they say to us customers.

Royco knew there was something wrong in the beginning its his fault for not verifying his instincts about the return procedure.

 

You were missing a piece of your scenario, I added it in for you.

 

Many thanks for this thread. None of this would have happened if there had been quality control and the missing parts were included in the shipment.

I was looking for reviews/info on the thinkpads. Definitely won't order one!

 

Just sue them i'll bet they'll settle immediately. Your lawyer fees may be a couple hundred bucks but who knows you might be able to milk them for pain and suffering too? Thats the bottom line there is nothing to do but sue.

 

even if you recover a few hundred bucks or even a laptop from them you at least get something don't let them get away with [$1600] it.

 

maybe but i really doubt suing them will do anything because there is no evidence except his word that he actually returned it.

i have noticed that lenovo doesnt have the best customer service but as long as my notebook works fine i think they are a good company and i would still recommend them. IMHO i think its more Roycos fault if he would have just had some proof that he returned it they would refund his money no problem but thats how it goes :\

 

Why do people make alts to post stuff like this :\

 

If I really were to go about suing Lenovo over this, if it turned out that I lost, wouldn't I have to end up paying THEIR legal fees? Ugh, that would be horrible - Lenovo already has 1600 of my money and I have nothing to show for it, so to give them anymore would really be unacceptable in my mind.

And please bear in mind - I still love Thinkpads. Thinkpads are my absolute favorite notebook ever created, from the Thinklight to the Roll Cage, to the excellent keyboard to the trackpoint/touchpad combo, they are just all around awsome laptops. I can't say enough about them... The issue here seems to just be customer service.

Customer Service is just terrible @ Lenovo, and doesn't do the Thinkpad brand justice. Just doing a quick google search on Lenovo's Customer Service brings up countless examples of people who were outright lied to by reps @ Lenovo - here is one of the more interesting ones:

http://consumerist.com/consumer/com...ak-lenovos-tricky-customer-service-144702.php

Furthermore, for those of you who've said this could never happen (ala Tony Bumarch) please check out:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=335250&sid=2ca723a6ae7a09f436d779ed7e207f22

Where you'll find another person, completely unrelated to myself, who stated that he too was told the *exact same* mis-information that I was told re: sending back a laptop via 'return to sender.' So this is not some isolated incident, and I'm sure many a customer has been told this exact same misinformation... How often it's resulted in a situation such as mine I really cannot say - but as far as I'm concerned once should be enough for Lenovo to realize that they need to get their 'stuff' together.

I've recommend Thinkpads to all my friends/family members and anyone else I've ever had the occasion to talk about the subject of laptops. I've recommended IBM stock, and after Lenovo bought the Thinkpad brand, I recommended Lenovo stock to my friends that dabble in the stock market.

I would guesstimate that I've probably made Lenovo at *least* 10 to 15k in referral sales - I'm just one of those sorts of people who has intense brand loyalty to the products in their respective fields that I've found to be of higher quality than the rest. (For example - I convinced two of my neighbors to buy Mopar and trade in their Fords)

As an intensely loyal Thinkpad user and up-until now, fan of Lenovo, I take great offense at the way I've been treated by Tony Bumarch & Lenovo.

I strongly encourage anyone interested in the betterment of Lenovo's customer service as a whole to contact Tony Bumarch via e-mail ([email protected]) or phone (Office #:919-543-6681/919-257-4816 and Cell #:919-744-7426) and respectfully request that Lenovo's customer service be revamped in some fashion so as to ensure that accurate and reliable information is given to their customers without fail so as to avoid similar customer service fiascos from occurring to other customers.

(For those of you wondering as to how I got Tony's cell phone number: I got an anonymous e-mail from someone who claimed to be a Lenovo employee who stated he deeply sympathized with my situation, and that this isn't the first such horrible customer service tragedy he's seen due to wildly inaccurate mis-information given by Lenovo customer service agents.)

David Churbuck (VP of Sales & Marketing for Lenovo) is also a higher up within Lenovo capable of bringing about change to their customer service and procedures, and he can be reached via e-mail at [email protected], or you can post to his blog at http://www.churbuck.com/wordpress

I am in no way advocating anyone to 'harass' these Lenovo executives on MY behalf, but rather I'm advocating anyone here who may purchase a Thinkpad laptop at any point in the future and who is concerned about the level of customer service they will receive to make their opinion heard to these Lenovo executives that we as customers demand that the customer service Lenovo provides be on the same level as the build quality of their Thinkpad laptops.

 

Is it really worth Lenovo's while to send a lawyer out when you file a Small Claims Lawsuit? I would probably say no. You have leverage since you cannot get Tony or anyone else to respond.....You have some evidence, and if you do indeed file a police report stating that your laptop was stolen, after you dropped it off at UPS then you do have a case. I am sure your phone number was on the package and if you sending the unit out in the manner in which you sent it out was unacceptable to UPS, then they should have contacted you. Have you tried to get the tapes from the UPS store? File a police report, at the end of the day it looks like someone at the UPS store ripped you off. The first thing I would have done is go to the UPS store and find out what happened to your package.

This is the way a person who genuinely lost their laptop would go about trying to get their computer back. I also feel that something fishy is going on here since you made no reference to going back to the UPS store to figure out what happened to yoru 1600.00 computer. I would have demanded the tapes and filed a police report immediately after finding out my package was never received. There is something definitely not right with this situation.