Lenovo Order Concerns - Updated!

UPDATE - 03/25: As a result of my persistance, our forum member "Nonny" contacted "Mark_Lenovo" from the Lenovo forums to offer assistance with my situation. Mark stepped up to the plate and filed a formal complaint with Lenovo on my behalf. Within 24 hours, I was contacted by phone by a customer relations rep. I will call her "Jane" to protect her identity and prevent potential contact/harrassment issues. Jane was very concerned about my situation and expressed she would do everything within her power to make me a satisfied customer. It was pretty obvious from our conversation that she had the authority to do so. Her first mission was to get the funds released back into my checking account, which was done. Next, she asked me to give Lenovo another chance to make things right. I was very reluctant, but placed another order as I was assured it would be handled by her personally. She offered me a new machine, configured exactly the same as the one I had previously ordered for the same price. She even stated that she will expidite the order/delivery. I pray all goes well, as I'm really looking forward to it.
I would like to give special thanks to Nonny, Mark and Jane. There is just not enough of them in this world. I would also like to thank all of those that took the time to read my post and respond. My experience certainly confirms the old saying "The squeeky wheel gets the grease". Hopefully my actions will also help others with future purchases get the service they deserve. I look forward to contributing to the forum with more positive experiences. Thanks again,

Jeff

On Wednesday, Feb. 13, I ordered a new X61 from the Lenovo outlet. I chose the outlet as I found one configured exactly as I wanted, and being an off the shelf item I figured I would get it quicker than ordering a CTO. I ordered it with my debit card and waited patiently for order confirmation and shipping estimate. On Friday, Feb. 15, I recieved an order confirmation with an estimated ship date of 02/22. I was very excited to get my new laptop. 30 minutes later I received another order confirmation with a different order number, but for the same laptop. I checked my online banking to find they charged my checking account twice. I called Lenovo support to complain about this and was connected to a woman with very broken english. I explained to her what happened and she couldn't explain why it happened. She said the best that she could do was cancel one of the orders and one of the charges on my checking account would be released in 24-48 hours. She would not connect me to a supervisor as their lines were busy. She said she would schedule a callback from a supervisor (I never did get a call back). I considered it an honest mistake and calmed down. That is, until my wife noticed the checking account balance ($400) and went crazy as she had the mortgage set up to go through that same day. The mortgage went through and bounced (along with a $35 NSF charge). Today (Monday, Feb. 18), I reveived an email from Lenovo stating that my order has been cancelled and to call Lenovo's sales department to place another order. I figured that this was just a confirmation email from Friday's discussion. I checked the order numbers to find that it was the remaining order they cancelled. I called Lenova again only to get connected with another broken english rep. I tried my hardest to keep my cool while explaining what had happened. I was told the order was cancelled because I called and requested the cancellation on Friday. She just couldn't understand that they cancelled BOTH orders even though I wanted only the duplicate order cancelled. She said all she could do is transfer me to the sales dept. so I could place another order (yeah, like I'm going to give them permission to take more money out of my checking account). She said there is no way to re-submit the order once it is cancelled. I was told that I could not speak with a supervisor as their lines were busy (again). She said the funds will be released from my checking account in 24-48 hours. I called back 3 times in an attempt to speak with someone who gave a $hit, but every time I got a broken english speaking rep that obviously couldn't care less about my situation. Ironically, none of them would connect me to a supervisor as "their lines are busy".
In summary, they duplicated my order, double charged my checking account causing our mortgage to bounce with a $35 fee, cancelled both of the orders and made no attempt whatsoever in resolving the issue.
I have been buying laptops from IBM for about 20 years without a single glitch. Customer support was always top notch. This was my first experience with Lenovo and will be my last. I can't beleive that a company of this stature would treat a customer this way. The only good that came out of all this is that I found out what kind of support to expect now instead of later. Sorry for the long winded post, but I really needed to vent and it's only right to let others know what they may be getting themselves into...

Edit: It comes as no surprise to me that Lenovo has topped the Better Business Bureau's complant list: http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2007/10/15/story2.html

 

And you just happened to post this on five other forums as well, didn't you!

 

This is more and more becoming common I knew this was going to happen once Lenovo bought IBM, the rep went down from there like a rocket that went upside down from launch.

 

Yes I did, and will continue to do so. Turning your back on this is not the way to do things. Consumers need to be informed. I am not trashing Thinkpads as I love them. It's just the service I will not tolerate, nor should anyone. I'm addicted to trackpoints and hate touchpads. I'm at a loss now as of what to buy.

 

Good for you the more eveywhere the better. A few months back I was thinking about a T61P great product but this one guy who got screwed by lenovo just like you reported this I turned away.

 

I had something very similar happen only I didn't use a debit card.

I ordered a t61p. Before it came, I called them and changed a wireless card. They said if i did that, I'd have to cancel the order. This was early October.

I cancelled the first order and placed an order for a second which was confirmed. I was horrified to see that the estimated delivery date was in January. Then I received a confirmation for yet third order that i knew nothing about. Frustrated by the long date I cancelled both of the two latest orders. They never carried through in verifying those cancellations but I survived.

It sounds like the difference for you was that the machine was in stock and you had used a debit card. I'm sorry you went through that.

 

It topped it due to, in my opinion, the unexpected demand for the new ThinkPads, which caused lengthy delays.

The date on the article is Friday, October 12, 2007. The whole delay issue is pretty much nonexistent now, for the U.S. anyways. That's why we don't see many threads or posts indicating shipment delays like we used to see constantly around here.

I'm sorry to read about your bad experience, but I guess all companies have at least a few of these cases. It's unfortunate that you had to be one of them.

 

I have a bad english or broken I don't know, but I have had OS problems with my T61 that I received it for 3 days from playing around with xp + vista and lost the BCD command line. =p can't even use the ThinkVantage button or the hidden partition.

I called Lenovo support and they transfered me around to IBM. I didn't speak well English because its my 2nd language. =<
The first person I talked to couldn't stand me and let the "hold" song played just because I don't know what the heck is the type number.

After that another person came in and helped me to the end, that this was my first time calling them.

The problem was solved, they sent the recovery disc without any charges.
Maybe because of only 3days received my laptop. =D

PS. I love my Thinkpad except the sticky 6cell battery =(

 

The problem with using hyperbole is things tend to lose their meaning. The fact remains the vast majority Lenovo customers are happy campers regardless whether Lenovo did right by you. From your description it sounds like they did not. Cherrypicking one statistic from a small geographic area does not make a trend. I could point to many more that says Lenovo is tops.

 

I don't understand T_T

 

The difference Renee is you didn't order thru the outlet. Things can get unwieldly enough when a customer cancels a CTO order.

It seems the Lenovo supply chain can handle things when the customer doesn't throw a monkey wrench into it but a simple thing like cancelling an order and the whole system goes haywire. Now multiply that 10 fold to the Outlet.

As has been pointed out before, while one'll find great deals on the outlet and may save alot of money that way, be forewarned that one may be put thru the wringer to see the order arrive at the door and the bank acct unmangled.

As for the preconception that outlet items get shipped sooner than CTOs, there's really no basis for that. In fact it may even take longer to ship.

Also another suggestion....it doesn't hurt to read the forums. Thus they should follow their own advice. Some ppl see the forums as a place to go when they needed to vent and that's fine..and some take it as a instrument to go to great lengths to warn the masses about the pitfalls and misdealings of certain companies. While the forums are that, it's also a tool for gathering info and feedback and asking questions.

I've seen numerous horror stories before I ordered my TP and much worse than the one here. Why did I chose it still? Simple the answer lies in Chaz's post.

 

Very true. When I see messages like that, I tend to just tune them out not because I think there isn't a problem of some kind but because their reaction is so overboard. I do wonder what happens when they have a real problem like a family member's illness or death, a job loss, a house fire, etc.

 

Check your PMs.

 

i get a call about this daily. "why is your charge on my card when the order was not aproved"? "why did the refund not show up yet"? there is a very simple answer. there is a huge difference between an authorization and a capture of funds. some vendors do it differently. I have a hard time beliving that lenove is actively out there to screw people. This is how we work
1. customer places order. if order is aproved we authorize the funds. a temp transaction shows up on your online ledger and can stay there for up to 10 business days. it all depends on how your card has it set up. it dffers from card to card and creditor to creditor
2. if the transaction is not aproved (declined) the same auth happens.
3. if the transaction is aproved after a few days to 10 days the funds will be captured and it becomes permanent. funds are NOT captured if the transaction was never completed but the auth can remain there as a temp for a while
100% of the calls we get with people yelling "why did you charge me" are from people that do not understand the difference between an auth and a capture. A simple way to find out which it is (if you cant tell by looking at your online statement) is to try and file a chargeback. If the transaction is just an auth and not a capture your creditor WILL NOT let you file a chargeback. You can only file a chargeback for captured funds. Most people complaining about issues like the original poster are complaining about auths not charges. Perhaps the case is different here but i just had to chime in.
If you tried to place an order and it was declined then you placed it again and it was aproved you WILL see 2 same transactions on your ledger and the ammount of credit you have left will reduce by both ammounts. This works pretty much the same for most vendors. i know it works this way for us, but it also depends on your creditor. some will not even show your temp others will

 

I ordered my T61 on Feb. 8, it shipped Feb. 15 and it's now on my desk. When I checked my Visa credit card account online I found out I was charged twice for the same order, once on Feb. 15 and once on Feb. 18. There was a phone number (sales) on the original email I got for order confirmation, I called that # first and it was obviously for new sales and the guy who took the phone call transferred me to someone else who never answered (I have a natural aversion to being on hold and give someone about 2 minutes before I hang up). Then I called the # which was next to my order # on my Visa online statement which got me directly to Lenovo. I left a message with my order # and what happened. I also left emails at my credit union detailing the double charge. I was just about to call yet another number this morning when I see that the second charge was removed. I really don't know which call did the trick.

 

you did not do any trick. you did nothing. read my reply above. the first charge was an auth. the second is a capture. the auth vanished once the capture appeared. it is not normal for them to overlap but it can happen. lenovo may be manually capturing funds or your creditor is slow at removing auths. In either case your auth and capture simply overlaped.

 

I believe you when you say this is how it happens. It's just that I'd never seen a "double charge" before on this particular card and I buy stuff online all the time with it. You'd think the two "charges" would look different somehow on my online statement to differentiate between a auth and a capt.

 

most likely they may have done a manual capture and the auth expires autmatically. not the best way to do it but they are within their rights. also they could have just converted the order and many other reasons why this happen. like i said. if you get a double charge wait 10 days then in vestigate. if you jump to it right away you are wasting valuable time, both your time and the vendors. its good to make sure there were not 2 orders but unless you actually placed to orders and got 2 receipts i dont see it as a concern

 

I never acused them of intentionally attempting to screw me. The problem is the fact that they made NO effort to resolve a catostrophic failure on their end.

I understand how it works. They put a temporary hold on the funds to guarantee it will be there when the item is ready to ship, when they will capture the funds. While the funds are on hold, they are not available for other use and that is how it should be. The problem is that the order was duplicated on their end and double the funds are now on hold. This is the catastrophic failure. That and the fact that BOTH orders were cancelled, not just the duplicate. When I placed the order, it went through sucessfully. I then went back to the list of laptops for sale, and the one I purchased was gone and no longer available. I couldn't have ordered it again if I wanted to. I can accept the fact that people and software make mistakes. The fact that they were not willing to do ANYTHING to resolve the failure is huge. I spoke with my bank and was told that all they needed to release the hold on the funds was a phone call or fax from Lenovo with the transaction ID and merchant ID and it would be released immediately. The service reps said they could not do either. It would have taken 5 minutes tops.

Thanks to all showing concern and insight.

 

Wow, this is ironic. I had surgery on my left knee 2 weeks ago. I tore my quadriceps tendon and it turned out to be a worst case scenerio. Recovery will be 4-6 months. I am off work now, living on 66% wages and am going crazy stuck in the house. So, let's see: I have the family member's illness and the job loss covered. Now you got me a little paranoid about my house starting on fire. LOL!

 

Wow, I nailed that, didn't I?? Sorry to hear about all the problems piling on - hopefully this will get resolved soon.

 

This could have happened with any vendor. Debit cards are ok for going to the grocery store and such, but I would never consider using one for a major purpose.

Based on the many posts in this forum, I'd say the outlet is very unreliable. Lists post, items get selected by users, and it's a crapshoot if you get the item you wanted... and it's a crapshoot when it finally ships. The outlet seems to be a way to potentially save some money, but not really time. There are many folks posting about CTO orders shipping in days at this point.

I know this doesn't help you, and I apologize for the "hindsight" advise... I'm not making excuses for Lenovo either, but any vendor could have done this. It would have been relatively transparent on a credit card, as it would have just impacted your credit line, and worst case would have posted as a dupe and could have been disputed.

 

I asked my economy teacher regarding Lenovo's management of the thinkpad line... He said they are now making money, (IBM wasn't). The thinkpad line will live because of this... And about the shipping delays, he said aren't you getting a better deal than before for a Thinkpad. He thinks Lenovo will get it right with a bit more time and the new line up of computers that they are preparing for us. The bigger the ship, the harder to turn around, but it will.

 

I couldn't agree more. ThinkPads are more affordable than ever and I believe that Lenovo is doing a great job by making that possible. Price is a major consideration when investing in a notebook computer and you know that you're getting a great, quality notebook computer with the relatively inexpensive price tag that has been advertised for ThinkPads.

 

I know exactly how you feel JHanko. Check out my post at 01:08 PM:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=213788&page=3

 

And WHY shouldn't he? If his story is true, it deserves to be told to as many people who want to listen. The choice is yours!

 

I have no problem with people posting issues with Lenovo, they should so people can make informed decisions. When you way overreact to the situation, it loses its meaning.

 

I have to assume that you are aiming this comment at me. If you feel that I am "way overreacting", good for you. It doesn't change a thing. If anything, I feel it has fed the fire. Taking the "normal reaction" route has resulted in absolutely nothing other than a waste of my time and a feeling of being beat down, forced to accept whatever they felt like giving me. I'm not going to let that happen. I DEMAND to be heard and DEMAND a resolution. Sorry if this bothers you so much. Oh, thanks for the free bump!

 

i think the moral of the story is. if you got a double charge from a huge company like lenovo wait a week before you assume they screwed you. it is likely the one of the transactions is an auth.

 

BOTH of the transactions are authorization holds, as there were 2 orders placed for the same laptop (not by me). Both orders were cancelled by Lenovo. No laptop will be shipped. In fact, the laptop that I puchased briefly re-appeared on the outlet yesterday. It was snagged up by someone within 30 minutes. Yes, the authorization holds will be released on their own in time, but time is not on my side..

 

lenovo has no control how long the temps remain. it varies from card to card. my paypal mc holds for 5 business days. my amex doesnt even show the temps. my visa for 10 days. a vendor can not release a temp it simply expires.

 

so you've gotten your money back?

 

I used to do quite a bit of business with Dell. They were easy to push around when something went wrong, eventually you would get a pakistani who spoke english and didnt read from the script and get a coupon for your trouble.
Lenovo is a different ball of wax entirely. They don't give a crap and thats the way it is.
Very happy with the eventual outcomes of all my Lenovo transactions, the before, in between and after service sucks bigtime.

 

Not yet. Still working on it. In all fairness, I must say that I'm not trying to get my money back, as they never really took it. I am trying to to get the money released in the checking account from the hold they placed on it (twice).

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this advice. There are many advantages to using a credit card. Some cards will automatically double the manufacturer's warranty for up to 1 year for free. There are also reward cards that will give you cash back, miles or points with your favorite program. If an error like this occurs, no money comes out of your pocket instantly, and the credit card company will go to bat for you in a dispute.

My debit cards are only used for cash withdrawals from ATMs.

 

I had a very similar experience to the poster. I used the internet, ordered - they billed me twice, luckily my credit card company caught the double transaction and stopped them. Lenovo then calls me and tells me the order is cancled because of declined card. This was also the last day of a sale as well as the last day of my states tax holiday. I complained that it was their billing department that made the error, but they insisted I used the website incorrectly. So they said they would charge it over the phone ..... so what do that do? double bill again! And then tell me my credit card can't handle it. I kindly point out my credit card can easily handle it if you would only bill me once. So they again deny it and tell me to call my bank (whom I've already called), so I call the bank back and they tell me they double billed so it kicked it back. Again I call lenovo and they do the same thing again (order, double bill, blame me). Again they tell me to call my bank, but I got smart the last time I called the bank, and I got the direct line to one of the representatives, so I tell Lenovo "No you call my bank!", so they call my bank......................... AND CONVINCE MY BANK I AM SUPPOSE TO BE BILLED TWICE!!!!!!
Of course noone ever mentioned it to me that they were going to actually bill me twice ( I had only every ordered 1 laptop ). So a day later I get 2 emails confirming 2 orders. I think WTF, call my bank back, they explain what happened ...... and state I had authorized Lenovo to bill me twice. So they again cancel the orders, Lenovo again calls me, and starts the conversation with 'restocking fees' - at this point I got very angry. After 2 supervisors and a 30 minute chat with some lady in billing I finally had an order for 1 laptop - of course I had to pay tax, and I actually had to pay more than I would have a few days earlier.

It really burned me, but I stuck with them because 1) I had a lenovo gift certificate/ credit from a familiy member, and 2) because I know the laptops are worth the money. But their business is total crap, and since they are not based in the US they just ignore the Better Business Bureau.

 

Bump for an important update.

 

Sounds like you're in good hands now. Congratulations. Hope you get your new ThinkPad hassle-free.

 

I re-read your first post. Sometimes things get so fokked up that you need to connect with the person with the power to make it happen...to make it happen. I've found that to be ever so true in my business (I build houses). I used to get frustrated as heck by somebody saying, yeah, we'll be out there tomorrow, when in fact they had no authority to get their own selves to my jobsite. I finally would get hold of the director of ALL of them (in one particular case this was the utility company in my region) and when she said she'd get somebody there, I learned that would turn out to be true. All that the peeps who showed up wanted was for someone up the line to tell them to be there, they didn't care where they went.

If this "Jane" doesn't get it done, she probably has a boss that could but I'm guessing your problems are solved. Let us know.

I've finally decided to only talk to someone who has power to get stuff done. You need to ask "who is that person" right away to avoid wasting everyone's time, most importantly your own.