Lenovo P51 - do not buy!

UPDATE 2:

Lenovo Facebook removes, or closes comments, but I want to continue subject. I ran test through what seems to be a culprit of AUO screen, I used thermo-diode, and done two simple tests:
a) With 100% backlight bezel (! not element behind) reached 42C !

b) tuned down to 50% backlight (remember NO LOAD at all) ... and after 40 minutes temps dropped to 34C, I catch on 36C though:


So what is possible story here? Well, an hour with 100% full-backlight and 'ungentle' little touch to the center may damage 'foiled module behind the tape' that is in the center of the bottom part of the screen. If we also factor in higher ambient temps (not 23C but something around 26C) then this bezel will reach 45C and elements inside foiled package.. probably well above 80 - 90C. Just an assumption, though.

UPDATE:
They managed to replace it in only 3 days! I am happy to announce! I am almost sure that part FRU 00NY650 SD10K93520 - 4K screen from AUO - has working screen but... fried backlighting! I am almost sure. Nothing, looked bad, everything looked pristine-new, but backlight is now embedded in bottom of this screen behind thick foil with very LARGE red "Do not touch". I assume that this foil insulates heat generated by backlight. It seems that backlight fired itself, screen was recognized in Windows 10, so electrically it was connected and IRQ assigned. That leaves us only with backlight module. I am not so sure about this solution, as after only 15 minutes of work with new screen, with 80% backlight, open lid, and no load at all (!) ... bottom of the screen bezel is hot. This heat comes from screen not from CPU/GPU (43/33C). Backlight warms to considerable extent - what's more - no such thing happen on Retina mac 15"!? I have no idea why this would differ so much, given that Retina can be brighter (+50 nits) and still cooler?! I connected external monitor, turned internal off and... no heat. Currently this is one part screen+backlight, then Tech had to replaced whole AUO panel/module.
Keep in mind! Before mounting screen - read key (5 digits) - note them. You should receive screen with CD (well P51 does not have CD, but I managed to copy software). Software is called PanelReplacementUtility.exe, as soon as executed it asks about screen key - and it is a must to run it, to notify XRite sensor, that new panel is installed. After this, all works as expected.


Hi,
I will try to be short, I was at classes 6 hours, run one VM and code, packed my backpack after classes, went home. After some time booted up to see white screen and ... no picture (NVidia again? BGA failed?) I did checked temperature during today HWmonitor showed 76C max, on one core, but NV was 38C as it was not in use:
a) I paid like 3000$ for this Lenovo P51 with 4K screen and NVidia 2200M, I was happy with it for 2 months!
b) I also paid for 4Y NBD On-Site Warranty!
c) Today - during weekend I am on BootCamp - studying, I need this machine for next weekend (I cannot have breaks as they will not certify mine attendance)!
d) I CANNOT call ANYBODY in my country (Poland), and I am also not able to be redirected anywhere!
e) I did register "issue" via form - ONLY one way I could Today (Sunday) 18/02/2018
f) When I check on the same page, their mail-ticked-ID does NOT exist yet?!

This is my fifth laptop, I never had/did any stupid accidents with them. I did not spill anything on any, I never dropped any. I repasted most of my old hardware and it works. I feel sorry for the people who sign their name under this product and I despise engineer-marketer-decision maker that accepted such solder. I am also pretty sure they will not make NBD agreement cause this is 4K screen and a bit stacked configuration - which even more tells what a pitiful times we've reached.

What a parody it is, P-series was supposedly be made in Japan. Today I was learning a lot about Kanban, productivity and all that eastern philosophy - what a joke.

 

Did you check if NBD service is available in your country/city BEFORE paying for it?

To me it seems like you had bad luck and got a defective unit. It happens with all brands. You can't really sue anyone.

 

NBD - is it ok to offer what you cannot deliver? How seriously you would be taken if you fill in your CV with bs and try to apply for a job, basically lying? "Bad unit", euphemism like " collateral damage"? Let's call things what they are.

 

It's your own responsibility to check whether a service is available in your region. And yes, bad luck is a real thing. I know cause I've RMAed laptops in the past within the first 2 weeks. It happens. If you think paying a lot of money makes you immune to bad luck, you're in for a rough life.

 

To be reasonable. And for you to understand:
- P51 has convection-capable cooling (CPU is in the center and mainboard is not upside-down but has radiator directing heat up - that is good)
- though the BAD is that this center part is also where perforated part for speakers is...
- and ... that when lid is closed, and it is plugged-in heat is dissipating directly onto the bottom of the screen frame where LCD inverter, quote: " ELP backlighting is often used for larger displays or when even backlighting is important; it can also be either colored or white. An ELP must be driven by relatively high voltage AC power, which is provided by an inverter circuit."
- now this thing did broke, which is simply put zero QUALITY CHECK done in house. I do have picture on external display, and iGPU and dGPU are fine, same as CPU temps.
How dumb people must be to not run AutoCAD heat simulations, or use already assembled devices to check this?

 

Maybe @Mobius 1 can help.

 

That temp difference is pretty much normal if you don't use the GPU, it will not heat as much as the CPU (I'm assuming that the VM is CPU intensive).

Before this incident happen, were you running on Switchable Graphics / Hybrid Graphics or did you run Dedicated only? It's worth to reset the BIOS by unplugging battery and unplugging CMOS battery (coin cell) and then holding the power button down.

You can also check the connection of LCD cable on the screen and on the motherboard (on the screen, you can access this easily by removing the screen bezel).

Other than that, I don't know what might be wrong with the P51 you own.

Here is the service videos to help you with the disassembly process: https://www.lenovoservicetraining.com/showcase?sid=1129&key=TGVuZw==



a) You should never pay that much for the P51. You can buy on the super discount special for VIP "perks" site (PM me and I can give you the details!) to save at least 30% when no other promotions are running, possible to save even more when sales are on.

b) Are you sure about this, where did you originally purchase the laptop? Check warranty status here https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/ -> enter the serial number on both website.

Check the IWS website: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/iwslookup and see if your machine is internationally covered in poland.

c) Can't really comment since I don't read polish.

Yeah, lenovo has some weird service availability on certain countries outside of the US. Some 3rd world countries are not covered very well because they do not have the market to justify putting a full blown service center there.

From what I've seen on the forums, you don't get "NBD" response.

It is only when they determine the exact problem and replacement parts needed, a tech will be dispatched NBD to replace them.

Convection capable cooling doesn't matter on the P51 due to how badly the cooling system is designed in the first place. Heat will never be able to escape through the speaker holes.

About this, I would never use a laptop with the screen closed and run loads on the CPU/GPU.
Speaker doesn't really get damage from the heat of this laptop.






Also, modern laptops do not use CCFL anymore.

The P51 (as with all other ThinkPads) are designed, NOT made in Japan. They're still assembled and made in China.

 

Generally, you should call whoever services the brand of laptops you are interested in and ask what services they do and don't provide. For example, Lenovo repairs here are handled by Viewpoint and if you ever feel confused, giving them a call will clarify things quite quickly.

In most cases, the service centre that you actually ship your laptop to for repairs is not owned by the OEM but rather authorized to repair their devices. Hence why you get such vastly differing reports of quality on basically all OEMs. Some service centres are golden, others are arses.

 

And the only way to make sure that the machine is serviced properly is for the tech to visit and you watching over the tech.

 

Sadly, that is the case. And here is where consumer protection laws are vital. For instance, if the item fails more than 3 times within the warranty period here, you automatically get a refund. Additionally, if an RMA takes longer than 30 days, you are once more eligible for a refund.

 

I wonder if the same policy is also in the US.

 

Thank you all for the involvement.
In Poland there is NBD, but as stated - it is not in the meaning that (as with Dells) - that they will repair it within 24h, they will dispatch tech in 24h if parts are on site, but they aren't.

I treat my laptops as an eggs, with all precautions known to man that exist (including ESD equipment, humidity known and temperature - in reality below 25% humidity everything becomes 'static threat' during winter dry air, drier than AC can produce will make it possible to reach 23% humidity!). I always take into consideration condensation, and all other physics factors known.
I am overly-cautious, my Retina is monitored all the time, I see temps, and rpm's. I also saw them and checked logs in P51, this seems not be an issue, issue really is 'legit'. This was not a miss-use, I closed the lid during 5 minutes break, I didn't want it to be opened - I am just assuming that this is only point which could fail. In system management - in Screens, Windows 10 Pro still sees both! 4K panel and connected via HDMI external monitor (I could log in only thanks to fingerprint scanner).

It is also not the cable, at least mics and camera are working, only display.

Only one VM, without much servers running on it is not a big deal, also IDE.

Here I will not have any "refund", return whatsoever. That is precisely why I bought it with extended warranty - I knew that Nvidia is an issue waiting to happen, however this time it is not the NV to be blamed.

 

LOVE my P51. It was great to get off the Dell Precision 5510 that I was using the past 2 years, and jump on a machine that just works, and runs smoothly.

 

Chris, should be easy to get a fix in Polen, all european thinkpad need to go to your country for fix-service.
Thinkcenter service for Europe is located in Polen.
Mine was planned to go to Polen for a cost-note?

 

Yeah, FWIW, my P51 has been flawless as well. I am sorry to hear folks having issues.

 

@Fluffyfurball, how did you upgrade your P51 to 4.5TB?

 

I have a 2TB Crucial 2.5" SSD, a 2TB NVMe SSD, and the 500GB NVMe SSD boot drive.

 

>put many storage into P51
>take your P51 into poland
>poland can into space

 

Thanks @Fluffyfurball, how much did those extra storage cost? I currently have 1TB NVMe that came with my P51. I'm thinking the cost of 4TB upgrade and also what will I do with 5TB.

 

Lol, only upgrade if you need the space as it is expensive! It cost me about $2000. You could get the Samsung 4TB 2.5" SSD for cheaper (about $1500).

 

I'd just rather buy a HDD if you need that much mass storage.

 

What thickness of 2.5" SSD\HDD that will fit P51? 9mm?

 

9mm will work.

Need the speed for big data files that are loaded and written to / saved in real time. I may add that 2TB 2.5" HDDs are extremely slow: I have a few of those.

 

Oh

 

I think buying the cheapest/slowest SSD is better than HDD. Which is my plan.

 

right 128gb is good enough for system and daily software

 

I think HDD is only useful for people storage huge data, I'd like buy a usb 3.0 external hdd.