Lenovo ThinkPad T14 & T14s Owners Thread

Creating this to gather all details/thoughts/reviews/comments from owners of Lenovo's new T14 & T14s.

I've ordered both the T14 and the T14s, currently playing around with the T14 while I wait for the T14s to arrive, will post some of my thoughts in the coming days.

 

Current very quick thoughts after a day with the T14 ( /w AMD® Ryzen™ 5 PRO 4650U):

• Great keyboard, as always
• Very slim, despite the rather large bezels (wish they'd pull a Dell XPS and get rid of those chunky bezels, not really appropriate in 2020 on such a premium/expensive laptop)
• Very quiet, even under load
• Temperatures (CPU & keyboard deck) are very cool
• 16GB of soldered RAM is operating in single channel (didn't think of that when ordering, for some reason I assumed it'd be in dual-channel)
• Attracts fingerprints like crazy, as usual
• Mousepad has a rough finish rather than smooth, not a fan of that personally
• Nice screen, quite bright - I got the high-response time panel from BOE (B140HAN05.7)
• Top-firing speakers sound OK, nothing too crazy but definitely better than most laptops that have speakers on the bottom

Specs:

• AMD® Ryzen™ 5 PRO 4650U
  
• 16GB DDR4 3200 onboard RAM (soldered)
• 128GB PCIE NVMe sSD
• 14" low-power 1080p 400 nits display

 

Okay so I'll chime in.

After 5 days with my T14s (Ryzen PRO 4750U)

• fantastic keyboard
• thin and light almost to the point where the magnesium alloy feels like thin plastic (it's not)
• I can live with the "retro bezels" but just like Ramzay said, times have moved on
• got the "bad" 400 nits low power panel, but can live with the slight ghosting, colors and brightness otherwise are great
• 32 GB of soldered dual channel ram
• fingerprints are not that bad, also the material doesn't feel as rubberized as that of the X1 carbon or other T-series laptops
• trackpad is smooth, no issues there
• I actually like the nipple and the buttons
• down-firing speakers, they sound like laptop speakers, MacBooks hold the crown in this segment, there is no comparison, it's okay for soft listening to music in the background or the usual Windows beeps and blips or voice calling, for everything else: use headphones

Issues:

• wonky Wifi 6 which I wasn't able to fix yet, connection doesn't drop but data transfer just stops randomly, I'm getting a lot of timeouts on websites or stuck percentage between web-installations
• this thing runs hot immediately, idle temperatures are between 58°C and 68°C, doing just one task, like installing something, it immediately sky rockets to well over 85°C, starting a big application, exporting a PDF, doing a benchmark or running League of Legends for like 20 seconds and it hits 98°C before throttling down. Fan runs relatively silent, but at lightspeed at almost all times as soon as I open any program.

Still evaluating things and seeing if I can fix something myself or if it's a know issue, but at the moment, I'm about to return it and hope this goes without a hiccup.

Specs:

• AMD® Ryzen™ 5 PRO 4750U
  
• 32GB DDR4 3200 onboard RAM (soldered) in dual channel
• 512GB PCIE NVMe sSD
• 14" low-power 1080p 400 nits display

 

@Scollurio
We've had a chat in another thread, and it really seems like you've got either a really bad paste job or just a lemon - those temps do not seem normal. While the 4750U should run a bit hotter, I don't think it should run that much hotter. My T14s is on track to arrive tomorrow, I can then add my findings.

Going to literally copy-paste my post from that other thread here:

Keep in mind my T14 has the Ryzen 5 Pro 4650U, so likely runs cooler than the 7 Pro 4750U.

• While mostly idle, average CPU temps are around 42C (ambient temp of 24-25C). Laptop is silent and cool to the touch.
• Running Cinebench R20 with Turbo set to "Efficient enabled" gets me avg CPU temps of around 57C, and the fan is pretty much silent (might be running so slow I can't hear it). Hottest part of the keyboard deck is 35C (WASD area 34C), CR20 score of 1809
• Running Cinebench R20 with turbo set to "aggressive" (the default option the laptop ships with) gets me average CPU temps of around 66C (CR20 score of 2226), fan is quiet but somewhat audible. Hottest part of the keyboard deck is 35C (backspace key, near the vent) WASD key area is 34C

Note that those avg temps were after multipe runs of CR20 - after just one run they barely went above 60C.

Though it seems the Bios update Lenovo pushed out today might have changed the CPU performance - yesterday I was getting 2500-ish CR20 scores with turbo set to default (aggressive), today they're down to 2200 (temps are down too). I'm guessing Lenovo might have been getting complaints about temps, so they might have lowered CPU voltages, though I didn't make a note of the prior stats so I can't compare.

 

Thank you again for your support. Just ran a few other tests. Now cinebench won't go over 2500 result anymore. Opening League of Legends (loading the LAUNCHER) breaks 85°C. Opening up Photoshop. Just, opening it, 80°C. Transforming a huge image, 96°C.

Will return it and then wait till more reviews are available, if I should go buy another one or just do something else.

Again, thanks a lot!

 

Probably the right thing to do at this point. The T14 seems to handle just fine, cool & quiet, so that's always an option for you. It really doesn't feel that thick at all, pleasantly surprised at that aspect. Slightly smaller battery, but a vacant SODIMM slot plus the (apparently) much better cooling seem to make it a winner.

Barring that, the HP ProBook 445 G7 could be an option - apparently performs well, cool & quiet and much cheaper (though its a 15" machine).

EDIT: Keep in mind my cinebench scores went down after installing the latest BIOS - I'm guessing Lenovo must have tweaked something that reduced performance while improving thermals. Turns out the reboot simply reset power performance to the middle option.

 

I'm making too big of a fuss of all this already, I've been investigating Laptops for a while now and was holding out for the new Ryzen chips. I do love Thinkpads design language and aesthetics, I could definitely live with a T14 to be honest. It was my first choice anyways, just thought I'd go for the T14s for "finer" materials, better battery life. But yeah... I also checked the cooling solutions beforehand, I noticed that the T14 had a dual heatpipe system but also that the T14s had a THICKER heatpipe and since it should also be able to run the now usually hotter Intel chips, I thought it should be fine. But as you say, I don't think this is how it's supposed to be.

Do you have any experience returning stuff with Lenovo? I bought it directly from their online store, which is handled by digital river over here in Austria. Should I make contact with Lenovo or Digital River? They have a 14-day period return policy and I only received mine on 27th of July, so should be fine.

Again, thanks.

 

I've never had problems returning things with Lenovo - I just contact Lenovo directly.

Currently running some IntelBurnTest with Best Performance Mode turned on. Definitely running hotter than with Cinebench, getting max/avg temps of around 84/78C.

Ran some more Cinebench R20 again - it looks like my system had defaulted to "Better Performance" when running my prior tests. Setting it to "Best Performance" gets me R20 scores of 2541 and max/avg temps of 83/79C (vs scores of 2220 and max/avg temps of 66C under "Better Performance"). Fan noise was noticeable (but not too loud).

That being said, I'll gladly take the 300-point hit to Cinebench scores (and other performance hits) to shave off 12-20C of CPU temps, 2-3C of keyboard temps and obtain a practically silent fan.

 

Hey, it's me again. I have some new interesting findings after some more testing.

Let me begin with some curiousity. When I got the T14s I changed ONE setting in the BIOS. The amount of RAM that is going to be dedicated to the Vega GPU - I switched it from AUTO to 2 GB, which is the max, believing it would do some good. After thinking a lot about my thermal issues I remembered that this was the only setting I changed. So I went into the BIOS and set it back to default, AUTO.
After that, I did another bulk of benchmarking with Geekbench 5 and Cinebench 20, in ECO, BALANCED and POWER modes.

I've gathered some interesting data. I have to say, within all usecases the CPU speeds bounced around wildly, as is expected when putting a sustained load onto an 8-core CPU in a small form factor. Hardly did the cores hit full boost speed. Again, as expected, even though it's a shame (I'm getting the feeling your R5 might be the more sensible choice over my R7).

Anyways, after I switched the setting back to AUTO, for whatever reason, the high spikes in temp during normal use were gone. Starting League of Legends brought it up shortly to 70°C. During normal use the average temp was around 65° (28 °C ambient temperature, so quite warm). Before it was reaching 75° or even 80° easily just running idly.

Here's the benchmarks (during which I noticed that the Vega graphics took 860 MB of RAM for itself):

Temperatures are averages.

GEEKBENCH
ECO | CPU 1030 singlecore, 3570 multicore, 68°C | GPU 10277, 70°C
BALANCED | CPU 1122 singlecore, 5673, 80°C | GPU 12172, 85° C
POWER | CPU 1133 singlecore, 5934, 92° C | GPU 12137, 92° C

CINEBENCH 20
ECO | 1625, 64°C
BALANCED | 2545, 70°C
POWER | 2900, 80°C

INDESIGN PDF EXPORT
Reference Ideapad 5, Kabylake i5, Quadcore: 53,42 s
T14s
ECO | 47,92 s
BALANCED | 38,5 s
POWER | 38,0 s

Conclusions
Unfortunately the R7 hardly ever uses it's full potential. The high temperatures during benchmarks are expected, there's heavy throttling going and still this thing crushes Intel's offerings in the same class by almost 100%. Can you imagine if this beast had enough cool air to breathe and wouldn't be limited to 15W TDP and got it's full thermal envelope of 25W TDP? One can dream.
Also it seems like if you leave the Ryzen alone, have your power settings on balanced and don't fiddle with the BIOS settings for the iGPU, you get the best blend of performance and efficiency. The Power mode doesn't yield much benefit over the balanced one, except the thing is running hotter. The idle temperatures are now better than before, but still seem hot to me.
The ECO mode will save a lot of power when you're running on battery but it will also severly affect the CPU power, I've seen the frequency drop as low as 1,2 GHz, well below the 1,7 GHz baseclock.

Still on the fence of sending it back,
would be curious to see Ramzay's numbers on his T14s when it arrives and how the values and temperatures compare.

I feel like the powerful R7 is a waste of power for this kind of chassis and the R5 might be the more sensible, smart choice.

Hope this all helps someone besides myself.

 

That seems about right I think, maybe a tad high. A more powerful CPU in a smaller machine with a weaker cooling solution running 5-10C hotter than mine makes sense.

That's a common trend these days - manufacturers put hardware in a chassis that can't properly cool it/feed it the power it needs. Remember the old Alienware laptops? They were thick and heavy, but ran cool & quiet - they were designed perfectly handle the components they housed.

That was my finding too - increasing the power mode to the max did result in better performance (Cinebench scores went from 2200 to 2500), but temps went up 10-15C and the fan was no longer silent. Not worth it to me.

For me, I don't really see any difference in real-world performance between a 4700U and the Pro 4650U despite the latter having twice the threads (I'm also testing a Inspiron 5505). Sadly, I'd read somewhere else that the T14s just doesn't cool as well as the T14. You could always check reviews for the T490/490s & T495/495s. Apparently the "new" T14/T14s are just minor refreshes of those machines, so any cooling discrepancy from those prior machines could very well apply to these machines.

Many other choices around too. If you're looking for a powerful machine, the ASUS G14 has gotten great reviews - powerful and the laptop can actually (mostly) run the hardware it has. A few tweaks apparently greatly increase battery life and temperatures (reviews indicate the G14 runs about as hot as your T14s, except it is running a 4800HS/1660Ti or 4900HS/2060). Otherwise there's the HP ProBook G7 series, also apparently runs quiet & cool.

 

Here's the respective cooling solutions from the T490 & T490s, T490 on top, T490s on bottom:

https://imgur.com/a/ulNTSka

You'll note that the area over the exhaust fins (far left), the dual heatpipes on the T490 appear to cover almost all of it, while the single heatpipe on the T490s seems to barely cover half the heatsink fans. It appears to me that the dual heatpipes on the T490 likely cover at least 25-30% more area (volume), The fans aren't the same either (CG30 vs CG50), I wouldn't be surprised if the fan on the T490s is also smaller/thinner, thereby cannot push out quite as much air.

 

Yeah, so far I'm really leaning towards a T14 with R5. If the Ideapad 5's would have slightly better (i.e. brighter) screen, I'd also enjoy them. I'll give it another 1 or 2 days and then I'll probably return it in favor of a T14. It just feels weird not being able to run the hardware to it's potential. Also it's strange, that thing with the allocated graphics RAM, that it throws cooling off the rails so badly.

 

Here's a review of the T14s with Intel, and here's one for the Intel-based T14.

Assuming the cooling solution is the same, thermals and noise appear to be perfectly acceptable on the T14s.

 

I was also looking at the Ideapads, but they are only available with 8 GB of RAM, which simply isn't enough. Otherwise, if I could get my hands on a 16GB Ideapad 5, that would likely have been my top choice. I've been using the Dell Inspiron 5505 for a few days now (300 nits screen) and that display is just fine - I don't personally need a 400 nits display.

 

On another note - have you thought of gaming laptops? Machines such as the Lenovo Legion 5 or Asus G14 are running H and HS versions of the Ryzen without too much difficulty. Quite a bit more powerful than the ThinkPads. The Legion laptops looke a bit more "gamer-y", but the ASUS G14 looks professional enough.

 

I also am looking for the illusive cool running AMD laptop but the G14 lack of Home and End keys bothers me and I have doubts about the Legion 5's build quality for traveling especially the top cover. Legion 7i seems to have better build and runs cool although Intel. I do like the features of Legion 5.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

Is this thread for the Red Camp Minions or the Blue Camp Minions?
Or... is this thread opened to all T14 Minions from both sides to mingle?

The thread title hv to be very clear, as most of the replies here so far till now, tilts towards the RED side... you noticed?

 

To be fair, i won't include the Legion 5 to this thread as it's larger by size, both on battery and screen, with the addition of dedicated GPU. Hence, efficiency could be affected if we're just touching on office works and perhaps light gaming.

Although ASUS Zephyrus G14 is comparatively "same size" as the T14 of both variants, both camps of CPUs, the HS CPU still guzzles 20w more of power to work "efficiently" in average to deliver performance. Okie... Since the G14 have a fatter battery, compares to the ThinkPad which do not have battery upgrade option. I guess the extra Whr can feed the thirst for extra power... Let the comparison begin!

 

The Ideapad 5 is available with 16 GB soldered dual channel ram here (Austria) and the only thing that's holding me back from buying it is a glossy 300 nits screen VS the 400 nits low power matte screen on the Thinkpad. Yes I have been looking at gaming Laptops as well, performance wise it would be a good choice and Legion Laptops of this year have so far been very well reviewed. But their screens are not the best for creative work, keyboards are good though and I really need a good keyboard as I type a frickin' lot (that's why I ended up with Thinkpads in the first place) and that's why the G14 is out of the question.

Also, call me nitpicky, but if I go Team Red, I rather go FULLY Team Red, so the Dell G5 SE with all AMD looks nice (specwise) but the chassis, screen and keyboard are all shoddy as hell.

And why this thread is leaning to the red side is simple: Intel at this point just isn't a good buy at the moment.

I was watching reviews of the new Dell XPS 15 too, it's still Intel bound and praised by almost everyone, but it too, despite some competent cooling, throttles a lot. I guess I have to get to terms with wasted power when using any sort of laptop. Why manufacturers just don't simply put less powerful hardware in there that can actually run up to snuff is beyond me. Yeah, marketing and numbers, sure, but it's a kick into the face of enthusiasts who actually inform themselves!

I can still bring up my Ideapad 530s from 3 years ago, quadcore Kabylake i5, runs competent enoough and when connected to an outlet I have it running on turbo all the time. 3,4 GHz on all four cores, never hotter than 72°. In Idle it sits at about 40°. Phenomenal - as the power of the processor can be fully used.

I understand that there is a tradeoff when using a powerful CPU in a small mobile chassis, but I always thought that tradeoff ALREADY IS the 15W TDP. At least within this envelope the processor should be able to flex it's muscle no?

 

Here's a look inside the Ideapad 5, the cooling solution looks much more capable than in the Thinkpads, also the exhaust is on the back, which makes much more sense (frying your mousehand). I wonder why this hasn't made it yet into the premium ThinkPads...



Also a very FINE review of the Ideapad 5, while a budget option, personally I think the Thinkpads don't hold their ground for being about 900 bucks more expensive than this on specs and performance alone...

 

Yep... A pity... Expansion on the RAM of the IdeaPad 5 is totally not possible...
https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/IdeaPad/IdeaPad_5_15ARE05
...but at least, it's given a higher clockrate memory dies. We'll probably have to wait for the announcement on the availability of ThinkBook with AMD...

...to see if the "IdeaPad based design" that brought over to the Think-Range will have expansion slots for RAM...Something like L14/15 internals in IdeaPad 5 chassis, badged with THINKBOOK.

Me too... was eyeing for ALL RED system like the MSI Bravo17 or DELL G5SE which packs the RED TEAM graphics. But unfortunately, not all markets around the world will get that. In Singapore, MSI only brought in the Bravo15 with very miserable configuration of battery size, storage, and sells @ EXTORBITANT PRICE!

 

Just played 10 Minutes of League of Legends on High on my T14s, 125 fps, 105 C. While this is no typical workload it's still ridiculous. When using the ThinkPad closed I'm afraid of actually melting my screen or something...

EDIT:
Also tried a round of LoL on my Ideapad 530s with Kabylake i5 Quadcore, did Turbo all the time, no throttling, max temp 76°C.

 

i5-8250? According to what i searched the maximum frequency tops @ 3.4ghz? What's the turbo boost frequency?
Had u tried disabling the performance boost R7-4750u in ur new T14 thru RegEdit? Perhaps that may not "overwork" the CPU.

 

It's open to all T14 & T14s comments/owners. But as was mentioned, given how much better the Ryzen CPUs are, there isn't much incentive to get an Intel-based model unless you really need that Thunderbolt 3.

Honestly this is my current takeaway after playing around with both a Dell Inspiron 5505 (Ryzen 4700U) and the ThinkPad T14 - the difference in performance & quality doesn't justify the massive price premium of the T14. The cooling solution on the 5505 isn't any better than that on the T14s, but it also costs half as much, so...

 

HP ProBook G7 series (445 & 455) appear to be just that based on reviews - cool running and decently built.

EDIT: Review here.

 

I'll try and play a bit of LoL on the T14, see what happens.

 

It seems Lenovo is costing themselves sales by not offering more options. I want 16GB of RAM with no touchscreen, but the only option available to me is 8GB with touchscreen. A shame, as I would've immediately purchased the 16GB machine if it had been an option.

The screens on the AMD version of the Legion are a little lacklustre I admit - tops out at a 60Hz/300 nits display, not sure how colour-accurate it is. Other than that, looks like an incredible machine for the price, and most reviews say that while all-plastic, it is powerful and well-built, as well as relatively cool & quiet.

I had received the "old" (prior) model of the XPS 15 with the i5-9300H without a dGPU (so two fans/heatpipes cooling an under-volted i5-9300H). It hit 100C while running Cinebench 15...returned.

I had ordered the new XPS 17 (my dream machine, I really need more screen space), but not being able to undervolt an Intel CPU is just silly, plus once I read more reviews about the Ryzen chips, I really want to give my money to AMD to encourage more competition and discourage all this questionable behaviour towards AMD (aka most AMD machines having sub-par options compared to Intel).

That's how it should be - only put components in your laptops if the machine can fully and easily utilize/cool them, rather than having a machine that can barely hold itself together under load. Hence why machines like the ASUS G14 and Legion laptops keep getting mentioned - based on reviews they apparently can run their components without much issue even under load.

 

That IS the Turbofrequency and for what it is, it's a great processor. No I didn't fiddle with the registry on my T14s, just contacted Lenovo to have it sent back. It's a really expensive machine and most of it's performance is left on the table. I'll think about a T14 with a R5 instead or maybe even get an ideapad with R5. Let's see. Luckily I'm in no hurry.

 

I'm honestly eyeing the Legion Laptops more and more, would just love to have a TKL version, I hate numpads on Laptops (and everywhere else too I guess).

We all know, there is NO perfect laptop that does everything right, but since my Laptop will spend it's life mostly docked to a workstation-setup on my desk, I definitely don't want to skimp on performance.

The moment there's an AMD-only Legion Laptop I'm really tempted, could even live with the Numpad. I just checked Lenovos site, here there's a 120Hz panel available. 72% NTSC color, not great but not shabby either. Doing color-critical work, one should probably work on a proper monitor anyways.

 

See I'm the opposite - I really want a numpad on the laptop, otherwise I have to carry around an external numpad (I do a lot of spreadsheets...). But yes, would be nice if they offered more customization options in regards to keyboards. Also for me, performance isn't that big of a deal. My upstairs office has a Thinkcentre miniPC with a i5-6500T, 16GB DDR4 RAM and a 128GB SSD - and it works just fine for what I need. And I bought it for $400 CAD used/refurbished, an awesome deal for me.

 

You start being scary... I have the exact same machine, only with 8B Ram as my Linux-Box.

As for the Numpad, I see that people need them, I just wonder how much sense it makes on a Laptop geared towards gamers. I once bought a cheap Lenovo Laptop 14" (can't remember it's specific name), a true plastic bomber but it sports a quadcore Pentium Silver low voltage chip. It's a flimsy chip and the screen is horrid but for what it was, the performance was plenty. Surfing the web, doing text documents, watching youtube, it did everything right. It had like 37 Wh battery and because everything was so low spec it ran 13 hours!!

What I try to say is, back in the day of the MacBook Air you KNEW you were trading performance for portability but since the thin and light craze took over everything people want to cram powerful chips into small chassis, just because it looks good in PR. "Thinkpad T14s with 8-core CPU" - WOW. Only it's as hot as a microwave and can't run to it's potential. I wonder what would actually be the max the T14s chassis and cooling solution could use. Probably not more than a quadcore Ryzen at 15W TDP at most.

I wouldn't mind lugging around something as thick as a P-series in a 14 inch formfactor only to have that 4750 Ryzen thing properly cooled and let it fly.

I still remember my feeling when I unpacked the T14s. "That's all?" - it's really tiny and while sturdy also flimsy in a way. It's just "too thin to be taken seriously". If it was price like 990 with an ultra low voltage CPU and geared only towards business people doing presentations and spreadsheats or sales people, yes, I guess then it would make sense.

 

L14 with AMD chip and better screens, I wouldn't mind the heft...

 

If it spends most of its time on a desk hooked up to a monitor, does the weight/size really matter?

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

 

Here's a quick unboxing of the T14 with the Ryzen 7 Pro. Temps seem ok to me.



Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

 

Played a small amount of LoL on medium (and medium power settings on the laptop), and average temps were around 64C, fan was audible but still quiet, FPS hovered around 90-110.

 

Ur screen is FHD, and by medium u mean u played the game in 720p? That wouldn't stress the iGPU. 1080p may.

 

Weight, kg:
T14s 1.27* / 1.35
T14 1.46* / 1.55
L14 1.61+
E14 1.59~1.64
* - with Low Power or Privacy Guard screens

Regarding better screens - everyone has different criteria. (= I personally hate PWM, while Lenovo evidently thinks business users don't care about eye fatique, equipping most Thinkpad configurations with PWM-dimmed screens while using much better quality PWM-free displays on many of their otherwise disappointing consumer models.

 

No, 1080p at medium settings.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

 

I recently bought a Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 (4800U, 16GB) to replace my 2015 MacBook 13" 8GB i5. The raw performance of that devices is astonishing. But there are quite a few small problems, which when added up together become a deal-breaker.
My issues with the Lenovo Yoga Slim 7
- The display is only 300 nits, and noticeable darker than my MacBook (which is also 300 nits).
- The keyboard backlight is very bright, which becomes a strain on my eyes in darker environments (you can disable it of course, but then you can't see the keys).
- The display has a glass panel (only option in my country) which is very reflective.
And last but not least: my unit had 3 stuck and 2 dead pixels. I contacted support about this but they couldn't offer me a replacement model because it is sold out, so the only option is to live with it (hell no) or get a full refund.
At this point I figured I might as well take the full refund and look for a better alternative.

Unfortunately there aren't many Ryzen 4000 laptops available with a brighter screen. I could wait for the rumoured surface laptop 4, but it's probably outside my budget and the port selection is probably abysmal as well.
The T14 and T14s do have the option for a 400 nits screen (and the 500 nits privacy screen, but I've been told that it's actually dimmer than the others because of the filter).
They also have a better port selection and ThinkPads are known for their great keyboards. Furthermore the display of the T14 is specced as 'Anti-glare' which I assume is better than whatever mirror they put in the Yoga Slim 7 (Glass display).

In my country there's following options available:
1 - (Not configurable) Ryzen 7 PRO 4750U 16GB 512GB for € 1.143,20
1a - I think this is single channel, though I am not sure.
2 - (Configurable) Ryzen 5 PRO 4650U 16GB 128GB for € 899,20
2a - Single channel as well, for € 5 more I can make it double channel.
2b - I choose the cheapest SSD because I am going to swap it anyway. Either with a 970 Evo (adds € 70) or a 970 Evo Plus (adds € 100)
2c - I could also pick the 512GB upgrade from Lenovo, though I believe those perform worse than the Samsung's. This would change the price to € 955,20, but is cheaper than manually replacing the drive (and having one SSD drive left over).

A few notes:
- Option 2 has Windows Home instead of Pro, this is actually preferable because I can get Pro for free through my university.
- The prices might seem odd because the student discount is applied.
- I could add a 4GB or 8GB DDR4 stick to the single-channel devices to make it (partially) dual channel. This does increase the cost though, and I really don't need more than 16GB ram on my laptop.
- I could also look at the T14s, but I don't care about the slight decrease in size/weight and apparently it has slightly worse cooling. It also costs more and doesn't leave much room for upgrades down the road.

Alright, now to my actual questions.
1 - Is the 4750U worth the ~ €200 price hike? I plan on using the device mainly for development (web, embedded, desktop, pretty much all kinds of development) and some occasional gaming (think Stardew Valley and a round of League once in a while).
2 - I case I opt for the 2nd option (configurable), should I go with the Lenovo SSD upgrade (slightly cheaper) or go with the cheapest option (128GB) and manually upgrade the SSD afterwards (this is slightly more expensive, but I also end up with a spare SSD).

Sorry for the wall of text, and I hope this is the right place to ask.
I am also open for other laptop suggestions, but so far the T14 looks promising.

 

I'd definitely do this - your demands may increase over time. And go with Ryzen 7 for very same reason.

 

Hey there, I can provide a bit information for you.

Firstly about the screens. I feel like you, 300 nits is not bright enough. Luckily the 400 nits low power display on my T14s is bright, vibrant and most importantly perfectly matte. It hardly shows any reflection, it's a blessing to my eyes so yes, whenever you can get a matte display, get it. Also, it appears to me that on all ThinkPads the memory is dualchannel, at least if it's more than 8GB, so your should be fine. Lenovo is very sloppy when it comes to documentation. Nowhere near does it say" dual channel capable" (like in the T14 psref file) for the T14s but it's definitely dual channel. Even a support guy told me it's single channel. It's not. It's dual channel. On the T14s that is, if you get the T14, you DO need to add a ram stick to the free slot (or order it with one) to get dual channel for the overlapping porting of RAM.

About the Ryzen 7 PRO, if you read up my walls of text in this thread, I have this exact processor in my T14s but ended up returning it, will be picked up on tuesday. It hurts my head, because that laptop is wonderful when it comes to everything else but cooling. The Ryzen 7 PRO in it is blazingly fast, but throttles hard all the time and the whole laptop get's blisteringly hot, at least my unit. Probably got a bad paste job though but I don't want to have to repaste a brand new laptop. Now that I'm sending it back, I saw in my country the R7 PRO is sold out. Great so I can't get a new one. Also, I might get a T14 instead of a T14s vor allegedly better cooling, but now professional reviews are out yet. This really get's on my nerves but running just Photoshop or having a few browser tabs open and having an average temp of 85°C is too toasty for my taste. Playing League of Legends for 10 Minutes rams the R7 into it's thermal limit of 105°C really agressively. Throttles hard afterwards, even below base clock just to cool down. So, the Ryzen 7 PRO is a GREAT processor and punches in the category of way bigger workstation processors, only the T14s has a REALLY hard time cooling it. During benchmarks it mostly runs at 2,8 GHz instead of 4,2 GHz max boost. It only boosts that high in bursts, which is expected, but then it gets hot so fast, after it it needs to run at base clock or even below to cool down. The right side of the keyboard gets really hot around the exhaust, about 50-60°C easily.

I just hope I got a lemon and can get a T14s or T14 with the R7 later on, that won't melt through my table and sink to the centre of the earth...

If you have specific questions, I still have my T14s till tuesday.

 

Thanks for the detailed response. One reason to go for the Ryzen 5 might be that it runs cooler (I assume?), and if the Ryzen 7 can't reach its full potential because of the thermal limits then that's just wasted money. Though I hope that your device is just a lemon and that the others work fine. If you had the option to try another Ryzen 7 T14s would you? Or are there other (minor) annoyances you have with it?

I do have two small rather specific questions.
1. Can you open the laptop with just one hand, or is it too stiff? From what I've heard Lenovo laptops are usually not that easy to open with just one hand. This won't make me change my mind about the laptop itself, but I was just wondering.

2. The Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 has three keyboard backlight brightness options. If I were to describe them as a scale from 0 - 100 it would be 0% (off), 90% (bright) and 100% (a tiny bit brighter). The last two options hardly differ in brightness. How is this on your T14s?

 

Oh and how is the touchpad? (Can't edit my post for some reason).

 

@FusionR86 I have a T14 with Ryzen 5 Pro 4650, 16GB on-board RAM

1. You cannot open the laptop with one hand, its quite stiff (which I personally enjoy)
2. Only two brightness options. I'd probably describe it as 75% and 100%
3. Opinions may differ, but I personally often just go with the sligtly less-powerful CPU, as its cheaper, runs cooler/quieter, and I don't need the extra power from the more powerful CPU (neither does the vast majority of laptop users in the world). I have a Latitude E7440 with a core i5-4300U, and for the work that I do, it doesn't really perform that much worse than this brand-new T14 (it is slower, but not by a huge margin).
4. When speccing out a "normal" Lenovo product, I'd usually buy the extra RAM/SSD directly from them (its cheap). But they grossly over-charge for ThinkPad upgrades, so if you're buying a ThinkPad, get the smallest amount of SSD you can, then upgrade yourself. If you're getting a T14, get the soldered-on RAM quantity you need, then buy your own RAM stick to put in the SODIMM for the same reason.
5. Trackpad is fine, though its a rough plastic Synaptics, while on such a premium/expensive machine is should be a smooth glass Windows Precision pad.

The soldered-on RAM on the T14 is single-channel, need to add a stick to make it dual-channel (as was mentioned above). Unless you're using heavy workloads (rendering or some other 100% CPU task that runs for 30min +) I don't think the Ryzen 7 is a big difference-maker. For normal productvity workload (Office, web browsing while listening to music, Slack, Remote Desktop, etc. all at the same time) it doesn't make a difference from what I can tell. Obviously you have to know your workload needs and how much CPU you need. but if your CPU spends most of its time under 100% load, you probably won't notice the difference between the Ryzen 5 & 7 (benchmarks don't really matter much in real-word scenarios for most people).

My overall take on the ThinkPad T14/T14s is they are just too expensive for what they are. Chunky bezels that have no place on a premium ultraportable in 2020, trackpad is just ok, performance isn't really any better for most people than a Dell Inspiron or IdeaPad 5 with the non-pro Ryzen 4000 chips, they are fingerprint magnets, edges are a bit sharp depending on how you sit at the laptop (fine for typing, but sharp for using the trackpad). But, the keyboard is superb (at least on the T14), thermals on the T14 are good, screen is bright, build quality is good and the T14 has top-firing speakers.

They're just too expensive in my opinion. I bought a Inspiron 5505 with Ryzen 7 4700U, 300 nits screen, better trackpad, worse keyboard, nice finish that doesn't attrack fingerprints, and performs about on par while costing almost 60% less where I am.

EDIT: added 1-2 details, some minor corrections.

 

Hey there, I know the struggle of decisionmaking when it comes to a Laptop (or anything else really), so I am happy to help you out where I can.

If the Ryzen 7 would be cooled properly, yes I'd always go for the Ryzen 7 because even with heavy throttling this thing is a beast. But also, I had occassions, where it was all slowing down to a crawl as the T14s tried to avoid catching fire. Judging Cinebench 20 benchmarks the Ryzen 7 in the T14 seems to run at 2,8 GHz on average, whereas the R7 in my T14s runs at 2,6 GHz on average, I suspect the cooling solution on the T14 to be better, because it's made for an Intel CPU + discrete graphics chip, when you select the AMD option you don't have a descret graphics card so my idea is, that the cooling solution should be able to batter handle the R7. Still it seems to throttle. I understand that thin laptops with powerful hardware are a compromise, but in my understanding this compromise is already the 15 W power limit on the CPU, and it still can't stretch it's legs. After comparing benchmark scores with other users and owners, also of a T14 with Ryzen 5 I still cannot come to a conclusive answer if the R5 can reach its potential better than the R7. Numberwise the R7 seems to be about 15-20% faster. If it was properly cooled I'd guess it'd be about 40% faster than the R5. But that's just a gut feeling.

Sorry for making this long, but I am very enthusiastic about this topic. The R7 (and also the attached Vega 7 graphics) are so powerful, I could even run quite new and demanding games on "medium" with good framerats (only the temperatures would almost melt my mousehand).

Besides the R7 seeming underutilized I only have one minor quip with the T14s and that is Wifi 6. Being the only Intel part in the system it's ironic that it's making problems. I do get, at times, not always, drops in connection. Like when downloading web based installers, like Adobe Creative Cloud stuff, the download % would keep getting stuck at a certain value for a time before it continued normally. Same with steam. All that while being in the same room with my router and no problems on other devices. I suspect, if there was something wrong with it, a future update would fix it.

1. No, you cannot open the T14s with one hand. The hinge ist stiff (and screams QUALITY), the laptop is really light and will skid all over the place when you try to open it with one hand. I didn't mind this.
2. With FN+Spacebar you can adjust the brightness of the keyboard to OFF/50%/100% and it seems to be well balanced around this values, but since the keys have a deeper and much more satisfying travel distance than other non-thinkpad keyboards you get a lot of "light bleed" around the keys. It's not only the letters like you'd get on a MacBook. Personally, I don't mind .

Besides the gripes I have with it the laptop is fantastic. I just wonder if it's even possible to cool the R7 properly at all in this kind of form factor. It's workstation-grade performance, really. Remember the times of the MacBook Air? You KNEW you'd get a slow laptop but for that the battery would last forever and it was light and portable. Nowadays all laptop makers strive for thinner machines while sticking performance parts in it that run like crap, but it reads well in the brochure "8 core Ryzen 7" compared to "4 core Intel i5". Yes it's more powerful, yes Intel is put to shame by AMD this year, BIG time. But seing that R7 crippled by thermals in a T14s hurts my heart because it's more like a "preview" of what's possible. I also hope I just got a bad machine. It's sad sending it back because besides the heat issue I completely fell in love with this machine. It's aesthetics, feel, and oh the keyboard. I even use the nipple and enjoy it.

If you have further questions, just shoot!

 

I agree on everything you said about pricing. While I love the ThinkPads design and build quality, compared to their own IdeaPad line they ARE too expensive. Processors really can't stretch their legs and I was wondering, who they actually are for. Someone who needs the Performance of the R7, can't use it fully because of thermals. The typical target audience would be business people holding presentation, showing stuff to customers, traveling a lot, doing excel spreadsheets and word. But for that use even the smaller R5 is WAY overproportionalized. I mainly got mine as a "writer's laptop" and for that, the keyboard is PERFECT. BUT... I'd rather not use it as my main machine (doing graphics design also) and JUST for writing, but what processor to get? There is no Ryzen 3 option which I feel would be the better choice for such a thin chassis. Quadcore Ryzen would be plenty, really. Also Lenovo messes up their whole product lineup. No AMD options for their workstations, nor AMD for X1 Extreme. They are all stuck to Intel, which look inferior to the AMD chips.

I feel like a ThinkPad T14s with 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, 400 nits low power screen and a Ryzen 3 Quadcore for 1.100 Dollars would be a sensible choice.
Also a P14 workstation for those who need it with a properly cooled Ryzen 7 would also be something that'd fly.
After losing some sleep over all of it, like you say, with the thick bezels and all that... T14 and T14s are too expensive. Yes, security features. Sure. But I don't use any of them except the 2 cents worth of plastic ThinkShutter!

 

I guess I edited my post while you were writing yours, might be worth checking what I added in case you disagree with anything.

How are the edges on the T14s? Sharp or smooth? The speakers are bottom-firing correct?

I've really been looking hard at the HP ProBook G7 series. They seem to have proper cooling (dual heatpipes, larger fans) and are attractively priced. Only real downside is the sub-par screens (250 nits, 50-60% sRGB). Fine for me, I don't do any video/photo work and mostly work indoors. But for anybody who works sometimes outside or does any kind of media editing, the screens aren't good enough. Then again, if you're looking at an entry-level business notebook like the ProBook, you likely aren't a content creator...

 

Yeah I still agree, but with sustained workloads and the Difference between R7 and R5 the problem only gets accentuated. Like you said, in real life scenarions unless you're rendering or video editing, the R7 won't "feel" faster than the R5 at all. But exactly when I need the R7 performance I'm left with a hot mess running at oonly 65% capacity to prevent a nuclear meltdown! I'd rather go with a R5 then that's closer running to it's max boost clock during sustained load without throttling and zig zagging with performance spikes all over the place (which my R7 does).

The Edges are smooth, well rounded and nicely coated. Nothing sharp anywhere. I've read they can be quite sharp on the front end of the palm rest on the T14 right? Speakers are bottom firing yes and really nothing to write home about. Yet they are branded "Dolby Atmos" - I'm not sure if this was a wise choice by Dolby... not much of good advertsing for their tech!

I've checked out the HP series per your recommendation, they just didn't grow on me yet! And yes, you are right about the screens. Too dim. 250 nits in this day and age is just as sub par as ultra thick bezels...

 

Yes, front and sides are somewhat sharp.

On laptops that are cheaper, 250nits is fine in my opinion. I have a portable monitor that I plug into my laptop, and at 250 nits its perfectly fine for my needs (indoors). But on premium machines (or gaming laptops), 300 nits with 75%+ sRGB is the minimum I'd like to see.

When working on spreadsheets, 250 nits + 50% sRGB doesn't really make much of a difference in my productivity vs 400 nits and 90% sRGB.

 

Nice argumentation on screens there, and again, I agree. Would you (or anyone) need a Ryzen 7 when working on spreadsheets though? I kinda miss the ability to really mix and match the T14 or T14s for that matter to my specific needs. I also hate how they gimp (so you buy the more expensive ones) the E and L series on purpose, for example on battery life, when in reality, because of the thick chassis those machines could easily have the best cooling AND biggest battery. But they also get the cheaper keyboard (non backlit, flimsy plastic) and only really crappy screens.

I get that they want/need to differenciate their product lineups. But honestly, If a customer is willing to pay for an L14 with standard ThinkPad Keyboard, 300-400 nits screen and a Ryzen 3 or Ryzen 5 in it with big cooling vents and large battery, why not provide that option?

Speaking of overprices, what's your thought on the X1 line then?

EDIT: About that sharp edges... I also think this shouldn't be a thing with premium laptops. But in reality laptops stink in general in one way or another. No matter what OEM. XPS also overheat like mad, have coil whine issues and really slow response screens (otherwise great though), MacBooks depending on their year of production have ALL SORTS of issues from crappy keyboards to melting graphics cards, broken screen connectors, etc...

I really get the impression that we're just at a point in tech and consumerism where lasting, well built machines aren't that easy to come by anymore, even if you're willing to shell out extra for it. I'd argue if I'd get a 500 euro Ryzen Acer machine, which medium specs, for what I paid I'll be happy and there won't be any Quality Control issues. Yes screens will be sub par, yes the keyboard is no ThinkPad Keyboard, etc... but they don't cost an arm and a leg.

Still,
I want a ThinkPad for Writing!