Lenovo ThinkPad T61 Class Action Lawsuit?

Anybody here who owns a T61 interested in whether or not we can file a class action lawsuit? I personally have had 3 notebooks, 4 PCs in my lifetime and this is by far the WORST out of the box experience I've ever had! Besides not shipping the T61 with the 64-bit OS, they don't provide you the install for the 64-bit Windows but the crappy 32-bit restore that's the same OEM install on the hidden partition which restores it back to the crappy BSOD ridden state. After upgrading the Intel Matrix drivers, I STILL get BSOD's and whenever I'm running the laptop unplugged, Explorer freezes! The only way I got it to work without any trouble is to reformat and install the 64-bit version of Vista Ultimate that I had to pay for myself. I can understand if there's a hardware defect or something... but as an OEM builder shipping the laptop out with problems that should've never existed in the first place is ridiculous.

 

You should sue Microsoft for putting out a beta stage OS.

 

1) When you ordered your laptop, did you choose the 32bit option or 64bit option? And did Lenovo in any shape or form, during your ordering process, imply that they will ship you the 64bit version? Or did you automatically assume that since you ordered Vista Ultimate, it should be the 64bit version?

2) It is industry standard practice nowadays to just give you a restore partition on the hard drive. No CD's included.

3) Since your T61 is working fine with 64bit Vista, sounds to me you are having some sort of software/driver issues with 32bit Vista. Have you called Lenovo tech support?

4) And how long was your shipment delayed? The T61 became available since May 9th. Since you obviously had some time to play around with your T61, I am assuming there was about a month of a wait time between when you placed your order and when you received your order. One month wait time is on the long side, but it's still within reasonable limits.

 

You're thinking about a class action lawsuit becasue of BSODs? Phhh. Man if people created class action lawsuits because of BSODs, the late 90s would have been chaotic hahaha.

 

I haven't seen a blue screen of death in the 5 years I've been running XP on my dell dimension. I'm gonna be pissed if I start seeing BSOD's because of vista.

 

Be sure to use good quality RAM and especially use signed drivers for devices and you should avoid most BSODs.

 

What I'm angry about and why I believe there should be grounds for a lawsuit is that the OEM build shipped out with the Lenovo crashes all the time which could have been resolved if they properly tested their OEM build before loading it and shipping it out. I did a fresh install and used the SAME version of the drivers that came with the system and it hasn't crashed at all. It's clearly not a Microsoft problem since you can get the operating system to runwithout crashing.

They don't provide you any viable means to resolve this issue at all. Your only option is to restore the OS to the same factory default BSOD ridden state. You can request it on DVD but its still the same buggy OEM build. Your only option is to do a fresh install which requires you to purchase another license of Windows Vista since the one that came with the system is an OEM license. By purchasing the computer, we've purchased the rights to the OS but they actually BROKE the OS before they ship out the system. I even tried uninstalling ALL ThinkPad/ThinkVantage software on the system and that did not resolve the BSODs and explorer locking up. Now do you get my point? Why should I have to pay for TWO licenses of the same OS to get it to work? I should only have to pay for one license but due to their incompetant OEM build and testing protocols, the only way you can get it to work is to do a fresh install without their modifications, an option that they don't provide you.

As for the 32/64 bit option, I never had that option and even right now as I'm checking out the Lenovo site I don't see the 32/64 bit option for the T61. Am I missing something here?

 

OK... those of you who keep on bringing up hardware or Microsoft are not understanding me. If it was an hardware issue, then I shouldn't have been able to install ANY OS on the system without the system crashing. That's not the case. I've been running Ubuntu on my T61 for 2 weeks now without any major problems besides driver issues. I just did a fresh install of Vista that is not dependent on the crap Lenovo put on the OEM build and it's working flawlessly. Not getting the 64 bit OS with the computer... fine. But shouldn't we have the option of obtaining the 64 bit OS since we already paid for the license?

Bottom line... if there are those of you out there who own the T61 and Vista works without BSODs and explorer freezing on you all the time and you didn't have to reinstall the OS... then I'll shut up.

 

I am just curious. Did you try to install that 64bit Vista Ultimate with the same key Lenovo gave you for your 32bit Vista Ultimate?

I read somewhere that both the 32bit and 64bit versions of Vista Ultimate share the same key.

If that is indeed the case, then you could have simply obtained a free copy of Windows anytime upgrade DVD and do a fresh install of 64bit Vista Ultimate from that DVD. Do a search on this board, someone posted instructions on how to do this a while ago.

 

1) I got mine brand new from a retailer (pc connection). I got tired of all the delays when I ordered it on their website. Keep in mind that I ordered it the 1st day it came out and was STILL delayed to 8/31.

2) Yes... I know. Is it industry best practice to have the restore partition restore to a state that is BSOD ridden?

3) Yes... it's some sort of driver/software issue caused by LENOVO. Not by Microsoft or any of the companies making the drivers.

4) I'm not requesting to return the laptop or asking for a refund. What I would like is for them to pay for my copy of Vista Ultimate 64 that I had to purchase in order to get the computer to work since they can't provide me with a clean version of the OS which I'm entitled to. And a few brownie points for all the trouble and time spent would be nice. But a good lawyer can get you a lot more than brownie points.

 

So what if you had to reinstall the OS? Big deal. You can burn off a restore DVD from the partition. There are very clear instructions around here on how to do a pre-activated OEM install from a retail DVD as well. Every notebook on the market comes with outdated drivers and loaded down with crapware. Quite frankly, who would want to run a factory install of Windows, anyways?

There is no grounds for a lawsuit over this. Over the massive shipping delays and gross misinformation about them, possibly. But not over this. Reinstall Windows (which is a good idea with any OEM computer anyways) and get over it. It's an hour-long process. My time and your time just isn't that important, and I'm fairly certain the courts would agree.

 

My laptop came with the 32 bit version of Vista Business Edition which is an OEM license from Lenovo. You're only entitled to a free 64-bit upgrade if you purchased the 32-bit RETAIL version of Vista. I don't have access to a 64-bit OEM Vista Business edition so I wouldn't know whether or not the same key would work but based on the numerous XP installations I've done in the past my intuition would tell me no.

 

Those of you out there who voted NO... are you telling me that your OEM install of Vista works without crashing????

 

Well... back then everything was new and unstable and there were no alternatives. In this specific scenario... it could've been easily avoided if those idiots properly tested their OEM build before shipping out the product. Not only was it avoidable... but they don't provide you with the proper means of correcting the issue without having to purchase your own copy of Vista.

 

OK... so for the average joe user that is not tech savvy... you're gonna tell me that whenever they purchase a new computer, they should EXPECT to have to reinstall the OS on their system once they open it? Outdated drivers bundled with a system usually don't cause a system to crash if a company properly tests the unit with the drivers prior to shipping out the system.

Now... where can I get the instructions that would allow me to create a recovery version of Windows Vista from a recovery partition that wouldn't install all the junk that comes with the OEM build? Just so I know the next time I purchase another computer w/ Vista.

 

Got one question for clau81 and one suggestion for everybody else that is in a similar situation.

clau81 - Did you attempt a clean install with the 32-bit software that you paid for? There are many guides floating around of how to obtain the REAL Microsoft OS key (the product sticker is not the real key) and using the "anytime upgrade" DVD to do a clean install. Read this: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=119587

The suggestion for everyone in the same boat is to do what I described above. Also, I've read that you can do a clean install from 32-bit to 64-bit using the same product key. The catch? You need access to the 64-bit software. So you need to know somebody that has the DVD OR you can purchase the 64-bit Anytime Upgrade DVD from comp USA for $5.00: http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...le&cm_ven=froogle&cm_cat=&cm_pla=&cm_ite=feed

It's my understanding that the "Anytime Upgrade" disk is actually the full 32-bit or 64-bit (one or the other) Ultimate.

The disk determines if you get 32-bit or 64-bit.

The product key determines Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, etc.

I plan to buy a T61 15.4" discrete (whenever it is available) with Ultimate. If it doesn't come with 64-bit I plan to try this to switch to 64-bit. I wish I could give my first hand experience with this, but until then...

EDIT: Everyone should believe everything I say... I became a "Notebook Evangelist" today

 

This suit would rank right up there with the guy who sued because his pants got screwed up at the dry cleaners and would deserve the same fate.

 

$54 million

 

who ever the class action law suit happy members are, you guys gotta relax. the operating system is the problem. an update for the intel chipset was released a few days ago. install that and your bsod problems will stop.

 

Wow.....right.......get them to reimburse you for something you changed on your own? Yeah right.

Return it and get a refund if you're that unhappy.

 

"That's totally inappropriate. It's lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!"

 

yep most laptop vendors are struggling with vista and sore as hell about it.

Tho there are some legitimate T61-specfic problems I've heard about in the queue and also read here

 

Just frickin great... installed Lenovo System Update 3, installed a few updates, and now Explorer freezes on me all the time. I didn't even install the Power Management Drivers and Utils. Had to do ANOTHER fresh install. Gonna increase the shadow copy space and try and isolate which frickin lenovo app is causing the problem.

 

clau81,

I feel for you and your frustration is understandable. That being said, I still find it hard to belive how many people are subjecting themselves to the MS torture called Vista. Do you really have to have it right now?

 

hey it's America

why not

 

No. We are telling that it is just not worth it. After all you have a 3-year warranty, if you are so convinced that this is a hardware/driver issue, use it.

 

I'm telling you I'm not interested in a lawsuit against lenovo.

And I am pretty angry with a couple of times they've screwed me now.

 

So somewhat on topic, is there a drawback to installing 64-bit vista?

 

Did you read this thread?

EDIT: Ooops. My bad. I've answered that so many times I didn't realize the answer wasn't realy in this thread. Here. I'll just give you the response I put in yesterday's 32-bit/64-bit poll.

 

Sorry to make you a bit cranky, but I appreciate the response

 

Sorry I got cranky. I've been spending way too much time in this forum waiting for the T61p. I see the same questions over and over. Not many people want to use the search function. And the Frequently Asked Questions sticky... well... it doesn't answer the frequently asked questions.

Anywho... glad I could help.

 

Stallen, I get my T61 tomorrow. I plan on going from 32 bit Ultimate to 64 with a clean install. I will post how it goes. I hate all the bloated crap with Thinkpad. Well, with all vendors, really. Anyhow, let's cross some fingers!!!! thanks for the post to the article. How awesome is it???? Wooo-hooo! Love the collaboration of this new-fangled Internet stuff!

---

MG

 

Ok, it didn't work for me. I was unable to go from 32 to 64 bit using the guide that Stallen recommended....

 

NEVERMIND! WORED LIKE A CHAMP!!!! I had to change the switch to say:

slmgr -ilc lenovo.oemcert.1000036.xrm-ms

I ran this with my command prompt in C: itself with a copy of the file there.

Hope this helps! Score!!!!

 

OK... I've isolated the problem... it's the god damn Turbo Memory. Once I disabled it, everything works smoothly without crashing. Let's sue Intel instead!

jk

 

Sounds like a plan!

 

I do see clau81's point regarding Lenovo's liability, though I wouldn't, at this time, be interested in a lawsuit. When it comes down to it, the duty of care falls on Lenovo's shoulders for selling a product not fit for public use. Lenovo chose to swallow the Vista pill that Microsoft likely all but forced upon them. In this instance you would hold Lenovo accountable and they, in turn, would sue Microsoft (though it's looking like Intel would be paying out damages to Lenovo, based on Turbo memory's track record).

It's kind of like a restaurant selling a dish using cheese that happens to be infected with hepatitis A. Whether or not the cheese came infected with Hep-A from the supplier, the fact of the matter is that the restaurant sold cheese with Hep-A. Now it might seem unfair that they be held liable for something they could not have known about, but they would then seek damages from the supplier and so on and so forth.

I think Lenovo should, by now, have an inkling that Turbo Memory + T61 = wasted money & malfunctioning machines.

*one final edit* If you're suing someone, you have to prove damages. I suppose clau81's damages might be the money he spent on Vista Ultimate 64-bit. But for the most part, what damages do you claim? Heartache? Heartburn? Anxiety? Time-wasteage? Effort expendage? I suppose if not having a laptop for a certain something for which you required a laptop and without it, you lost a lot of money, you might be able to prove damages. But otherwise, it might be difficult. This post is becoming a long train of thought...I'll stop now.

 

Short answer: nope. I am perfectly pleased with my T61 - no BSOD's or any other glitches

 

i agree. their behaviour has been terrible.
they canceled my first order without saying why.
i reordered, and they said they will ship a free battery.

the problem i have with this, is that they don't see the situation for what it is.
they genuinely think it's just a minor inconvenience to make you wait 3 months for a laptop, and then have it BSOD.

they really think a $100 battery is enough compensation.

seriously guys, some people have businesses to run, and $100 means NOTHING

 

Hmm.. T61 Class Action Lawsuit? Well...

Maybe not just because of the T61 (since we do not own any yet in our company), but I would sure like to kick the helpdesk and repairing staff at Lenovo/IBM, in the laptop division, since they are _E_X_T_R_E_M_E_L_Y_ incompetent and/or stupid. Now, I do not want to sound like a jerk and shout out "I AM THE BEST, F**K THE REST!", no, not at all, but here are some examples, and maybe you will understand my attitude:

1. Once we got 4 Lenovo 3000 N100 laptops, and one of them was stone dead. I called the Lenovo support and tried to explain the situation. The guy was listening, and after a while, he said: -Why is it dead? What did you do with it? You see that the other 3 computers are working and it is no problem with them! If we find out that you have damaged the computer, then you have to pay!

.... Arrfffff....

2. One of our employees called to the support since he had some problems connecting a projector to his T43, and that was because the first drivers had some problems with two different separate refresh rates, such as 70Hz at the screen and 60Hz on the external D-sub 15-pin VGA-connector (connected to the projector). The support gave him an answer like: -We can not help you with your projector. Don´t you have your own technicians at your company??

.. My jobmate did not know whether to laugh or cry..

3. They "repaired" the Lenovo 3000 I wrote about after 2 weeks or so. They sent it back, and on the receipt it was written what they did to "repair" the computer:
* Resetted the memory, OK
* Faults found: Unknown fault; replaced the motherboard with a new, but it did not work anyway. Customer got another machine.

WHAAAAT THE F**K MEANS "Resetted the memory, OK"???

 

DUDE...this is one of the funniest posts I have ever seen!

I am having a similar experience with my T61P which is currently at the repair depot. They have replaced my motherboard TWICE now and the system "still won't post". That's funny... It posted before I sent it! They have managed to actually make the problem worse lol...

 

Oh? I thought that was just another feature...

 

have you tried disabling hybrid disc in power management? that seems to have solved all BSOD issues

 

well, nothing seems to be without an error. a lot of people out there have problems with T61s for some reasons and there are also a lot of people who are happy with their T61s. Personally, i don't get any problems with my T61 as long as you know what to do with it. I found that T61 functions are very effective, applying a few tweaks to the system, it will be smooth n fast like a wild horse.

the only 2 things i have on my system are:

i got some light leakage at the bottom of the screen, but not a big deal. and 1 more thing which i find really strange: the nVidia Quadro NVS 140M in my system is actually 512MB instead of 128!

thinkhead T61 7664

 

yea that light leakage issue pisses me off...i had a 15in ws i had earlier..had horrible leakage and i exchanged that for a 14in ws with absolutely 0 leakage....these are QC issues

 

This has been addressed before, it is in fact 128 megs. The 512mb you are seeing is just how much memory it is able to use if it "borrows" some of the system RAM. The video card itself only has 128mb of dedicated video RAM.

In fact, the amount of memory it will share varies, for example with my video card, on Windows Vista 64 bit it will actually show that the video card has 2gb, becuase it just uses up to half the system RAM amount.

 

Yes.. I actually used R&R when I first recieved my t61p and reinstalled the os sans software I didn't want (disk keeper, pc doc, etc). Runs great for me.

 

I voted no too...i had bsod's and crashes..but this was due to turbo memory...not lenovo's fault...more of intel's and msft's fault

 

Yes not one crash here.

 

Let me clarify a couple of answers.

Regarding the product key, when you buy a retail copy of Windows Vista, any version of Windows Vista, the image on the 32bit disk has seven skus. The SKU that is installed on the machine is picked by plugging in the product key. If you don't enter a key, you are prompted for the SKU to install.

The key you get with the retail version of Ultimate can be used for either the 32bit or 64bit install of Ultimate. Like all keys, it has multiple activations. You aren't required to activate for 30 days. This is a great way to test drive Ultimate x64 and your applications, printers, games, etc.

The reason you get two disks (32 and 64bit) for Ultimate is because the .WIM file image cannot contain both x64 and x86 packages. Packages are the components inside the .WIM image.

Regarding x64 versus x86, you should try it for yourself. Everyone has a unique set of applications so one person may have smooth sailing, the next person may have a show stopper with a printer, scanner, app, or something else.

I have a 4GB T61p running x64 Ultimate. It's be smooth sailing for me since 9/4.