Lenovo ThinkPad X201 "Sandy Bridge" refresh?

Will there be a upcoming Sandy Bridge refresh of the X200-series?
Lenovo has been darn quite about their ThinkPad series and Intel's second generation Core iX processors and their new chipset.

I know things have gotten delayed with this faulty south-bridge stuff going on, but still Lenovo would normally announce their new line-up of T, W and X series by now?


If they could just release a new X201 or X201s with second generation Core i7 CPU and replace these ridiculous low contrast panels with something more like what they offer on their X201t tablets and keep the good 1440x900 resolution I wouldn't dwell about getting myself one!

 

Allegedly it will be the x220. But dont hold your breath. At this rate, without any official word even, you may not see anything tangible for months, although they are starting to slash prices on the x201's perhaps in preparation for x220 later down the line

 

SB offers little marginal value unless you push the CPU frequently. Even then it's going to a small performance increase. If you want a machine with a good screen, I'd suggest getting one of the tablets or doing the AFFS mod. The new X series are most likely going 16:9. There probably won't be an AFFS mod option on the X220. You probably won't see a higher resolution option either.

 

The SB part is not true. SB platform offers better battery life, and at the same time a very significant improvement in CPU performance. Go read the review on anandtech.com, and see how SB laptop Core i7 outperforms last gen high end DESKTOP Core i7.

It's true that most users won't notice the gain in CPU speed. But for those who cares about it, the performance gain is not minor, it's huge. And for those who don't need top-notch CPU performance, they can go for a SB CPU with lower clock-speed, or even go for a LV or ULV CPU without noticing any performance loss, when compared to first gen Core i or Core 2 CPUs, to get much better battery life.

 

Except the X series uses highly cut down cores, which translates into far less performance, so it's not really fair to use reviews such as those. If you want battery life, get a C2D and undervolt. The AFFS screen is a much better investment than a more powerful CPU as users who buy the X series do not care about CPU power (and if they do, IMO they should be looking elsewhere).

 

I do care about as much as possible power in as little as possible laptop
Thats why Im eyeing X series even tho I have pretty well spec'd T series right now
12" X has always been my true love, but its higher price tag and WXGA resolution has kept me away from it so far, not sure if I will want to go back to 1280x800 from 1440x900.
Does anyone know whether 1440x900 screen from X200s can be modded into X200?

 

Then there are two options for you. Actually the Sony Vaio Z series is already known to fit the most punch in the smallest package including a disk drive.

But its expensive, so in this case, the next contender is the alienware M11x. For me, I still wont choose those options because I like the look of thinkpads more than anything so I am sacrificing performance/cost ratio for looks and some will argue build quality (although this isnt really true as the former two actually have equally or maybe better build quality than most thinkpads).

 

The X series uses the same processors that you can find on the T series. I wouldn't call that highly cut down. The significantly improved battery life is the highlight of Sandy Bridge, and better battery life is great feature whether you have a dual core or a quad core.

 

Sony Vaio Z seems good but I read somewhere it can heat up like crazy when under stress, since it's pretty thin. M11x has so many design flaws, I won't even begin talking about it, it's definitely what a future THinkpad owner does NOT want.

 

That's your opinion and I don't know that it's a matter of fact. They always say that and reviews get written extolling the virtues of the new chip or platform, but somehow it never works out that way in my experience. If you bought a T4x machine years ago, it'd get about 3-4 hours from the six-cell battery, which is exactly what I'd expect from the T420 with a six-cell. You might get a few more minutes, but I wouldn't define that as significant.

SB could be five times as fast, but typical notebook usage like Office, Media and Internet do not push the CPU enough to where you'd notice a difference, which is why SB has little marginal value for most users. I'm sure there users who need every ounce of performance, but that's not what you're average Joe or Jane is doing. I think this would be more true on a mobile platform like the X series.

An AFFS modded X20x or X20xt, offer much better screens. That's a much more perceptible benefit that any claimed battery life or CPU performance enhancements. The X220t is probably going to be 16:9. You'll be losing some vertical real estate, which is more valuable. It's not huge, but worth noting.

 

I have used, though not personally owned, the VaioZ many times and there is no noticible heat issue.

Yea I heard there are hinge issues with the M11x etc. However I have also used the M11x and it looked pretty well built from what Ive seen.

I still wont buy those though unless they release an all matte black version with a trackpoint. Honestly if they did that with the Vaios with the Z form factor, Im down with that. But being sony they like their things shiny so.

 

I used m11x for 6-8 months. Can't really recommend it if you want something reliable. The build quality is OK, quite worse than M17x, but looks fancy and it's not tough like Thinkpad or M17x. The Lunar Shadow version I had, actually gets less fingerprints then the Thinkpad. I doubt they'll put Trackpoint on anything that's not a business class tho. It would be nice - there would be more space for the keyboard. And yeah, compared to X20x the keyboard is SO cramped it's basically impossible to type after you get used to a X20x. Design problems: hinge, rubber feet falling off, crap screws (they jammed after I untwist when I had in-home service), keyboard scratching and leaving marks on the screen - which is quite noticeable as the screen is very glossy. It's also super-easy to scratch it - Dell scratched mine on the lid during the depot service.

For Vaio Z, I found the thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/not...-vs-sony-vaio-z-i5-comparison-benchmarks.html

 

Yea the M11x isnt 'business' notebook but the VaioZ certainly is. Both sony and dell have added trackpoint-like mouses onto their products in the past so we know at least its in their playbook.

Not going to argue about the keyboard cause the good thinkpad keyboards are hard to beat. But then theres also the fact a smaller notebook will command less space and so naturally it has to be cramped. Its a design drawback that cannot be avoided with some exception (like folded keyboard mechanism in the past). The good news is, keyboards as small as blackberry keypads are still doable. Im actually ok with smaller keyboards for a small machine as the mobility will be a huge plus. I used to own an IBM PC 110, and I loved it. The small keyboards goes with the territory of small notebooks.

Im sure all notebooks have their little problems. E.g. thinkpads suffer from the screen smudging problem from the trackpoint, which is why they later revised the design to make the trackpoint less protruding out of they keyboard.

 

@ZaZ and khtse; it was shown through tests at Anandtech that SB graphics are atleast twice as powerful as Arrandale. SB doesn't just bring marginal improvements.

 

One thing neglected to be mentioned with respect to notebook size is the very important fact that the VaioZ sports a disk drive in that package which is a tangible fact that puts the M11x and even the X201 to shame although it is obviously a much flimsier machine. It then further edges over the X201 with the fact it sports a 1GB dedicated graphics. Also, dont get me started with the screen borders of the two compared to the VaioZ.

 

Disk drive? I don't know what are you talking about. Both SSDs I used on X200(t) with SF1200 controller worked really fast for me. Does Vaio Z HD put Vertex 2 to shame too? Sure. And I believe every M11x owner with either SSD or Momentus XT doesn't complain about the hard drive. I don't know whats your point really. Are you going to complain that they come with less RAM too?

Size-wise m11x is fatter, but just slightly narrower than X200. And the difference in keyboard size is just really big. But yep, there's a small smudge from the trackpoint vs the entire keyboard imprint on the m11x. I don't know whats your problem with screen edges, but m11x has the big ones (too big imo), and the Thinkpad has their own that.... hold?

@Roger,

It's still an IGP with pathetic 3D performance. The main thing I like about SandyBridge is that it uses very little power when watching videos.

 

*blinks* If you're comparing it to a dedicated card, then sure, it's "pathetic". But for integrated graphics, and even low-end dedicated cards, it's quite a nice upgrade.

 

By disk drive I meant optical drive, aka cdrom, dvdrom, bluray drives. No worries, just sementics. On that point, the Vaio Z can alternatively put an extra HDD or also go into RAID configuration in that small package. Meanwhile X201 and M11x holds one 2.5" drive and no option to fit an internal optical drive.

The VaioZ is more effective of the three in the use of its space to fit as large as possible its screen. In other words, since screens are standardized by manufacturers, maybe could have shrunk the x201 so the screen bezzles are smaller or attempt to fit the next standardized size in the existing package, etc.

So it boils down to this, since X201, Vaio Z and M11x are 'ultraportables', the VaioZ has the advantage of an optical drive, switchable dedicated graphics, and a large screen to size ratio.

 

Ah ok. If one needs an optical drive, then yes. I cant think of any use for it. When calling m11x "ultra portable" one should keep in mind is that it weight quite a bit more than I believe either Vaio Z or X20x. It feels heavy in comparison.

OK I got your point on the screen. On the other hand, I took X200 screen apart and there doesn't seem to be a lot of extra space with this design. There's a lot of support for it, but I don't know if we're going to see the change there with X202 or whichever will come next.

As for the main topic of the thread, I believe everyone will put out their SB versions of these small (more or less portable ) laptops. I wouldn't keep my hopes up for a cheap price as soon as they are out, but the older models might turn out to get a good price in Outlets. Maybe X201 for $600 or so.

 

That's not just my opinion, it's a fact. Read the review. When you didn't read the review and just said "yes.. benchmark always said that but never happend", that's called an opinion.

Intel?s Sandy Bridge i7-2820QM: Upheaval in the Mobile Landscape - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

Two things to note when reading this review. The CPU they tested is a quad core one, which I don't think will be available on X220. But quad cores were not available on X201/X200 either. But since they are also comparing to previous gen quad core CPUs, you can get a sense of what Sandy Bridge is bringing to the table in terms of performance improvement. The other thing is, not only did i7-2820QM outperform previous gen laptop CPUs, it also out performs last gen DESKTOP Core i7-920 CPUs.

True, you can say that the average joe, won't notice the difference. But what I was saying that, if you care about CPU performance, you will see a significant gain moving to Sandy Bridge. And an average joe won't be able to source an AFFS screen and mod it onto their ThinkPad either (I have one on my X200, and I sold a few here). The Sandy Bridge platform also added support for SATA 6Gb/s, which brings day to day performance improvement across the board, if you have the money to buy one of those newer SATA 6Gb/s SSd with Sandforce controllers (whose transfer speed exceeds what SATA 3Gb/s can offer).

There a number of things that I do often are CPU-bounded, and can benefit a lot with a faster CPU. Compiling programs, running scientific simulations, processing raw pictures in Lightroom, and encoding videos for my mobile devices, just to name a few. Encoding videos is hardly a thing that only hardcore geeks do these days, given the popularity of fruity i-devices. And that's where the new GPU in Sandy Bridge comes into play.

 

I don't understand why ZaZ always dumps on Sandy Bridge. I'm just going to copy/past what's below for the next time we go down this road. CPU performance is probably the most minor aspect of this refresh.

-My T400 gets 5.5-6hrs on a 6cell battery. There's no reason Intel (and Lenovo) couldn't have fixed cpu/chipset power consumption to gave us back the battery life. From what we know so far, SB has delivered.

-Notebookcheck shows SB performs 50% better in 3DMark06 than NVS 3100M. I'm set, no need for discrete graphics anymore for me with that kind of performance.

-Lenovo will be using Intel 310 mSATA ssd's. That means in the X-series you can have a reasonable size ssd for a boot drive and a large 2.5" storage drive. In other model series it'll be the same setup, but you'll be able to use a bay battery or dvdrw or blank cover, where it would've been taken up by the ultraybay hdd adapter.

-AFFS modded non-tablets, and tablets, have much better screens that what? Screen for X220/t's that haven't been released yet of which we know nothing about? There's no reason next gen tablets won't have as good or better screens. Vertical resolution is also staying that same so there won't be any lost viewable space.

-The move to 16:9 screens will hopefully bring much better quality screens since that's what the rest of the industry has been using for at least a generation. In tablets, if Lenovo has stuck with Wacom it'll also mean a new gen of digitizers.

-Lenovo showed at CES their next gen of EhancedExperience Windows images produce 10sec boot times.

You can't not love the next generation of Thinkpads. I just need to decide what model to get.

 

I wouldn't go that far without having seen the final product... and price tag

 

I hope for a X220i for $600.

 

Maybe when Haswell comes around, the X220 will be discounted.

 

Nah. You all want to talk about performance and I'm talking about value, which are two very different things. I don't think anyone's arguing that SB doesn't offer better performance,. The better screen and lower cost of the X20x machines, offer much better value than a SB based machines for the average user, even if SBs are faster. Typical notebook usage consists of Office, Media and Internet. None of those really push the CPU enough to make a significant difference. Now, if you want to code Blu-rays all day, then by all means get a SB. The fact that you are compiling programs, running scientific simulations, processing raw pictures in Lightroom, already makes you an atypical user. Granted, the video coding may make a difference for some users, but if SB is 50% faster and it takes five minutes code a video, then it's 7.5 minutes with a Core CPU. I don't think most users would even notice.

I would be more more than a little surprised if the X220 had any LCDs that were significantly better than what offered now on the X20x notebooks.

I have to say I'm not real impressed with Intel SSD I've got now. The better throughput on the SATA III will be most noticeable for things that place a heavy load on the controller. I don't see opening FF or Windows Media player doing that.

As to the battery life, much will depend on the settings. I'm sure it's possible to get six hours from a T4x machine if you dim the screen enough. The screen uses way more juice than the CPU.

 

I will judge SB when they get actual tests done by everyday users and not paid-reviewers
So far I am not buying this SB hype.

 

They will announce "candy bridge" in the next 2-3 years and again, than another new processors later on and all the masses will abandon sandy bridge to get better performance.

It's neverending story. The question is, do we really need that performance?

I don't think new processors every year or so are the main reason to upgrade.

 

anandtech is one of the most reliable tech sites in the web, one of the other top dog is ars technica.

if this was guru3d, tom´s hardware, or some other british site that would be understandable.

 

I'd add: an atypical user of an ultraportable 12" laptop.

 

Im not talking about one particular page or review.

 

you just implied that everyone receives money, that was fairly obvious. What you dont know is who are the reliable ones, so I just showed you 2. Those are the ones I trust, tom´s was good at the beginning but when it grown larger the qualit decayed quite a bit, and the lack of a impersonal view was/is more pronnounced.

 

I would not buy into SB hype. It's performance increase is nominal and it's manufacturing tech is the same as arrendale meaning similar power at same speed. It's 3d graphics is much improved (about 50%) however still not good compared to a $50 dedicated card or good enough at high res to an external monitor. In other words still junk for 3D and 2 generations old is good enough for true HD. Then you have move to 16:9...meh... for 99% of what I use my computer for this format makes it worse, more scrolling than already the pathetic 16:10.

I always buy the lowest end processor because I feel just fine with anything over 1.5Ghz for what I use laptop for. I already have a 4.4Ghz water-cooled, 6GB tri channel memory Xfired 6850'd gaming/encoding machine hooked up to a beautiful 24" NEC IPS & 20" NEC IPS in portrait - I use laptops to get real work done that pay the bills. Prefer cool, quiet and cheap - low end + SSD does this. YMMV

Oh yeah - another issue with SB is the faulty chipsets. Techreport reported that intel still sends out these faulty ones to OEMs and tells OEMs to only use the on board SATA instead of chipset SATA. Whether these chipsets hold up that way or realize 5% failure rate talked about when using chipset SATA will be interesting...not trying to spread FUD but I am leery of SB in it's entirety until Z68 chipset hits.

 

errr... so why would need something higher than a P4 chip, if the clock is all that there is in speed...

The die shrink is a good thing for thermals, but that is not the only thing, if it was the AMD desktop line would be king, with their old k10 and k10.5 arch, and the extreme clocks of their processors.

The arch changes is what brings performance. Off course for people its not a good thing to change their pcs every year, but if you do like me that holds till it dies, usually 2-4 years, you can get a good boost.

I can actually notice the difference between the P7350 and the T5500 or even the T2500, all of those using the same HD and the same amount of memory, and last but not least the same OS.

Is it a noticeable performance increase between the P7350 and the T2500? yes it is.

If I go from the P7350 to a i5 2540 would i notice the difference? hell yes.

Is the processor all that there is in a pc? Not at all. And the SSD as you said gives a good performance boost, the problematic part is he price, which still is sky high

ah btw the piece about the SB fault chipset being released even if they are the faulty ones is that most notebooks, dont have a use for all the ports between 2-5, so, as is the usual combo HD+ODD you are more than on the safe side. And this is not going to recoup any of the losses that both intel and the OEMs had with the problematic chipsets, its too minor... there isnt any SB laptops being sold right now, nor chips, nor desktop mobo, maybe and thats a maybe by the end of february they start to reapear due to the release of the dual core chips.

 

P4 is hot and dated tech but anything over 1.5 with integrated mem controlller, like i said last 2 gens is fine. Benchmarks show virtually no difference in SB from arrendale in power or performance only better in 3d but still sucks at it so it offers no real upgrade. In reality 99% of laptop users will notice no difference even between C2D and SB around same speeds - a SSD would be a much better investment. I won't use a computer without ssd but don't care about processor as long as it's newer mainstream and not named atom.

 

Zaz, to be fair, is your 'average joe' really going to change out their system's display?

 

True, they're probably not going to swap the display, but one of the tablets is available for less than a SB X220, at least in the beginning, and they've got much better displays. A better display is a more tangible benefit for most users. In a perfect world, you'd get both, but that mostly doesn't exist these days. I still say a X200 or X201 still offers much better value for most users even with the regular LCDs.

 

ZaZ, the AFFS mod voids the warranty, am I correct?

 

Yes, any time you open the LCD housing you're going to be voiding the warranty. I'd say if you do a good job with the replacement, you might be able to send it in for something other than the LCD of course. They may never notice, though the glossy screen may be difficult to miss. If they want deny you warranty service because of the mod, they have grounds to do so and there's nothing you can do about. It's not a risk free proposition. It's a trade-off, a better screen for possibly no warranty service. The way I looked at it, I can buy and fix most things cheaply. If the board were to go, that would suck. The chances the board will go is small, though not zero.

 

That's a good way of looking at it. I feel similarly with hardware repairs - god knows how many times I had to take apart my previous Dell. It's just that... I have another 600 days of on-site warranty and it's just feels like a waste to void it. Though the pictures you and others have posted present a strong counter-argument.

I LOVE ThinkPads... but I can't wait for the day for Lenovo to use similar screens as Apple does.

 

That's why I bought my X200 inexpensively in the outlet.

 

If I have a 3-yr warranty is the screen also covered for the 3 years? And, what if I asked Lenovo to replace the screen from say a 1280x800 to a 1440x900 screen (with me specifying the FRU)?

 

I second what ZaZ was saying. At home, when checking email, editing documents, reading web pages and listening to music, I use my "old" T43p with 15" 1600x1200 Flexview display. I perceive no penalty in speed, yet the spacious and high-quality display serves my eyes really well.

 

You could buy screen and call Lenovo to ask how much would they charge for screen replacement procedure? Either way it is going to be very expensive.
I believe CCFL to AFFS mod is more complicated, perhpas doing WXGA to WXGA+ swap one should simply replace LCD panel itself and no other parts, thus if needed one could easily swap panels back to bring machine into service and leave no traces of swap to keep warranty?


BTW, found info in link from another thread, bottom page tiny info about x220:

http://go.notebookreview.com/?id=52...vo-thinkpad-x120e-review-via-engadget-10.html

At least we know for sure from Lenovo that its coming and that it will be built to last Sort of...

 

ZaZ, wouldn't this saying be more suitable for say... a super model? Oh wait...
In addition to having more general purpose performance for less watts, and some new hardware acceleration features, SB is bringing a long waited ability to play some decent 3D games on small form factor PCs, e.g. tablets. Crysis won't be playable, Fallout 3 will.

 

LOL.

/10char