Lenovo W520 Owner's Thread

Try setting it to "Balanced" for the CPU in PM. I just tried playing SCII on battery, and it wouldn't go over 1.2 GHz until I put the CPU on "Balanced" instead of Turbo or Maximum Turbo. On Balanced it went between 800 MHz ~ 2.7 GHz as required. Though I have to say, gameplay was less than optimal so the GPU clocks were probably something other than max.

I'm on Optimus and I have a dual core machine with a 1000M, this may play a crucial role in throttling (or somewhat lack thereof).

 

Could you expand on this?

 

Welcome to the world of quad core laptops! Every powerful laptop throttles on battery, and Throttlestop is an absolutely amazing application solving these issues, at least for PC users. Try fixing throttling on a brand new 17 inch Macbook Pro.....

Also, don't forget physics! We are talking about a laptop with a full power requirement of 120+ Watts! How on earth do you want that thing to work on full scale both it's CPU and GPU while on battery?? It is an amazing thing that the W520 doesn't throttle when on AC power! No, seriously, for 99% of the laptops the big issue is that throttling happens even on AC! Those who are annoyed by Throttling on battery has clearly no understanding that we are talking about a mobile workstation with better performance than 2 year old high-end desktops!

 

You are probably talking about a different scenario than what we have here especially having a dual core.

 

Thank you, it did fix the problem. In fact Windows 8 runs lot smoother!

 

I've got a hour long train ride in each direction for my commute. I'd like to be able to both get some work done when projects are near(AutoCAD, PS CS5.5, very occasional Matlab) and to play games when they aren't. There are no power plugs on the train so its battery power for me.

 

This is the first time I've heard about it in a computer that doesn't have heat issues with the quad core config(Acer for example). I'm amazed that they don't design to support ALL the uses of their machines. Its not impossible to design a higher current battery if that is the limit on running both the CPU and dGPU, nor is it impossible to design a cooling system that can handle both. What is the point of having all this in a laptop when you can't use it when your not at a desk? You can build a desktop with these same performance specs in a small watercooled box if you just want a system that can be carried between desks!

Yes, we may be matching a two year old high end(but not top end) desktop now but you can fit that same performance in a small format desktop now and not have to pay for all the extra bits and still have a machine that you can only get its full potential when tethered to a desk! If performance is not your requirement but just portability then you can spend less and get a machine without all the extra performance features and the corresponding heating and power systems but with all the other things you need.

There is no engineering barrier to supplying enough current from the battery and the fact that it can reach its full performance on AC shows that dealing with the heat is no barrier in this size.

 

Ok, thanks. That's what I figured you would say. It's actually the most common high performance on battery scenario for this machine. There are a couple of others that come up pretty frequently and the reason Lenovo opened up the throttling at all.

After watching this issue for the past 12 months on forums.lenovo.com, I believe what you see is what you get from Lenovo. I'm sure they have moved on to Ivy Bridge and the W530 at this point.

So use Throttlestop or plan to sell the W520 and get something else in 6-8 months.

And by the way, if you really want Lenovo's attention on this matter, the place to do it is W Series ThinkPad Laptops - Lenovo Community.

People need to think twice before they buy a ThinkPad now. Most people don't exercise their critical path tasks in the first 21 days (the return period). If they did and returned the machine, Lenovo would act eventually.

 

I actually think it was more of a matter of misjudging the market. I think Lenovo thought more people were like me and would use the machine in high performance mode only plugged into AC. When I was on battery, it was typically for short periods in an airport or some other setting. Commuting via train wasn't one of them.

What they found out, rather quickly, was that there quite a few vocal customers like you demanded more out of the battery power than just checking email or surfing the web (which the W520 does quite well for 6-7 hours).

 

Can I use the W520 AC Adapter (170W) on my T500? Will it damage the T500?

 

While this is not first hand knowledge for your exact situation, I don't foresee any issues. I use a T61 that came with 65W AC adapter with my W510 power brick (135W) all of the time.

 

That isn't possible. The 170W has a special keyed barrel to prevent it from being used. See the attached file for the comparison with a standard ThinkPad barrel.

 

Good thing I added a disclaimer...

 

Does any use VMWare workstation on their W520? How many Processors (max is 8) do you assign to the VMWare Image?

If I assign 8 processors to an Image, will it affect the performance of my laptop Windows?

 

Depends on the VMs. Any newer OS like Windows 7 or Server 2008 needs at least 2 virtual processors -- 1 processor x 2 cores per processor -- at least. If the VM requires higher processors you can gradually increase them. I have used up to 4 virtual processors at a time per VM.

There is nothing stopping you from allocating 8 processors or even higher. You can assign 8 processors for a single VM and check if the host OS gets slow. You can easily reset to 2 or 4 processors later.

 

Just as an update about the throttling issue and contacting lenovo. First, no one acknowledge the issue after talking to several agents. They made me download the Lenovo Solution Center and run a check-up for the hard drive and memory. For some reason, the machine crashed and I got a blue screen many times (even in safe mode) when sometimes conducting one or both of the following tests (Smart Drive Self-Test) or the memory test).

All what suggested is sending me a technician tomorrow to replace the CPU, motherboard, and RAM. Do you think that this is something I should try? Does it worth the time spent in this process? I just do not want mess up my machine with replacement parts if it is not likely at all that it will solve any issue with the machine. I will appreciate your input, so I can decide whether to keep the appointment or cancel it.

Thanks

 

I would say go ahead with the appointment as if you're getting a BSOD while running diagnostic software then SOMETHING is wrong.

 

Or remove the diagnostic software.

What was the original reason for the service call? The Power Manager Maximum CPU Speed setting isn't working?

 

I can get my W520 to thermal throttle pretty easily. Just as an experiment I wanted to see how high I could get the "power used" field in Power Manager. The system was set to dGPU, full turbo, tpfancontrol to 64, screen brightness was 8, wireless/bluetooth disabled, no peripherals attached, and the battery was not charging. I managed to see 116 watts but only caught a screenshot of 113 watts. Have anyone seen it any higher? If so, what were you doing?

 

Yes, that is correct. The throttling on battery issue. They do not acknowledge it and just got me into this diagnostic thing and then multiple times, I would get the blue screen and the machine is dump. My understanding is that these diagnostics only test for the SSD and the memory. Could the SSD be the problem, not sure and I do not know other ways to test it. Could it be the memory yes.

I understand your point that my original call was for something else but that is what those guys wanna do. If you wanna help me, just let me know what you would do if you were in my shoes. I just purchased this machine since a month and I told them that he parts have to be brand new or I am not replacing them. I am really busy this month and do not want to do this hassle of replacement if nothing will change with the machine after the replacement.

Just let me know what you think. Thanks and always appreciate your help.

 

By the way, I have new interesting observation regarding the throttling on battery which means that this issue is much more complicated than one would think (or may be it is not a new discovery for people here) but it makes the situation more difficult to interpret.

Now, I do not experience the throttling on battery if I reboot the machine on battery and stay on battery use. I will have to connect the AC and work on it for a while then disconnect it and then I will be able to see the throttling. I wish there were another fix rather than Throttlestop as I do not like third-party software that mess with the CPU.

 

OCCT Linpack + Furmark on Xtreme burn in, I saw 98 W on my machine with that. With a XM and 2000M, it shouldn't be that hard to see 120+ W.

 

The best I could help with is suggesting changes to your BIOS power management settings, or the settings for the Power Manager profile in use. But you'll need to post them here.

I am in the opposite camp, or was. The only time I used my W520 on battery was to do some surfing or whatever while waiting on a flight. All of my high performance work is conducted on AC. Therefore my focus was energy conservation on battery. Running the CPU at it's lowest power setting is preferred with that goal.

If you have studied all of the settings and their effect on your machine carefully, and still believe you have a hardware issue, I see no reason to call off the service request.

However, I would make damn sure before I let ANYONE touch my machine.

 

The concern is likely from having a tech disassemble/reassemble your entire machine. The MB and CPU are the of course the foundation on which the system is built. Replacing them is like replacing the heart and soul of the system, if you will.

Additionally, I doubt this is the solution to your issue... After replacing these items, I feel the machine will function in the same way that it does now because it is operating as designed. Good luck with finding your resolution... Maybe you should consider returning it while you can...

 

That and I am not confident you have an issue. Most people simply don't understand how to tune ThinkPads.

I'm not trying to slam you. It's an acquired skill and I'm not confident you fully understand the hardware, software and changes to support your goals.

 

No offense hrana because I respect your knowledge and skill, but I consider this example null.

Why on earth is it important to transcode a DVD and do all of this other stuff on battery? Is it really important?

I totally understand doing a demo to a potential client on a train without AC, but some of the examples I see thrown up in the context of throttling don't seem valid to me.

 

Guys let's keep it civil here..

 

Hey, Thor, the beautiful Samsung should be keeping you totally distracted right now.

 

It is. And I was being civil.

 

I totally agree with your concerns regarding replacing the board and CPU though I started thinking why one would care about Lenovo's warranty and buying extended/on site if he will be afraid that the guys touch the machine unless you are only talking about on site technicians vs sending it to depot at Atlanta.

Should I at least consider replacing the RAM. I definitely know that is not the solution to the throttling but I just got concerned when Lenovo solution center hardware scan crashes the machine at some point and giving me the blue screen at some point during testing disk and memory. Is it common that their diagnostic software does that or is there a real issue with the drive and/or the memory that I should investigate further?

Thanks again for your help.

 

The example was given tongue-in-cheek. It's an absolutely absurd scenario. Ultimately we can get these machines to "break" through some rather outlandish use cases.

I'm much like you. The W520 on battery isn't meant to be a speed demon but something that lasts until I get to the next wall outlet after a long-flight or drive. If I need insane amounts of processing power while on battery then there is always throttlestop and multiple slice batteries at my disposal. However, this need does not exist for me.

 

So, will the slice battery provides enough power to strop the throttling completely?

On another note, if you read my issue with Lenovo Solution Center diagnostics causing my machine to show blue crash screen at either the last check point of the drive or the beginning of memory testing (though doing each test separately does not cause issues), should I replace the memory at least or is it a glitch with lenovo's diagnostic software?

 

No. Throttlestop will stop the throttling. Multiple slice batteries will be needed to give reasonable battery life.

What's the blue screen error code? If it is memory then run memtest.

 

Got you. I think I will just cancel the appointment and live with the machine like this. I actually use it like most of you (connected to power) at home and office though I need to travel some times or move between meetings. Would you please refer me to Throttlestop settings since I am not expert with that.

I do not remember it but I ran memtest any way, and it gave me PASS 1 with "0" errors. I have searched a lot to see if there is anyway I can test the M4 SSD too (or any SSD in general) but could not find any. The only one available is for Intel SSD. Do you know a diagnostic tool for my SSD just to be comfortable that I do not have any issues with it too.

Thanks

 

Breaking stuff is easy.

 

The only way to properly test memory:

1. Download memtest86+ and install it on an empty USB key
Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool
2. Boot the computer from it and run for 24 hours non-stop.

 

Oh, thanks for the advice. I thought it is only one PASS

 

In many cases the first error usually appears only after 6-8 hours, sometimes even later.

 

Hello everyone,

My new w520 is being shipped today. Really excited, pretty much read from around page 550 till now since I purchased the laptop. I was getting worried with a few things, especially the upcoming thunderbolt plug but since it will only really become a standard in 2013, some of my worries regarding that has been alleviated. Here is my rig:

Intel Core i7-2860QM Processor (2.50GHz, 8MB L3, 1333MHz)
15.6" FHD (1920x1080) LED Backlit Anti-Glare display, with Wireless WAN Antenna
NVIDIA Quadro 2000M Optimus Graphics technology (2GB)
Color sensor
4 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
Pointing device UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) Fingerprint Reader, Smart Card Reader
720p HD Camera with Microphone
Storage subsystem Internal RAID - Not Enabled
Intel 160GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA
Express Card Slot, 4-in-1 Card Reader & Smart Card Reader
9 Cell 2.8Ah Li-Ion Battery
170W Slim AC Adapter - North America, Latin America (2pin)
Broadcom Bluetooth 3.0 with antenna
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN

Pretty much got all the bells and whistles. Planning on upgrading the ram, I do a lot of CAD/Revit/3ds MAX work. I have a few questions...

The pointing device (Trackpoint and touchpad) include a smart card reader... Does this mean SD card reader? Because there is another option (System expansion slot express card slot) which provides that as well...

The Battery is a "Slim" AC adapter. What i've been seeing is huge bricks, is it still the Slim model I am ordering?

Can I enable raid on this machine? I also ordered the internal ultray bay (the correct one, did my research 12.7mm or something). So maybe I might configure the raid, but only if I can "enable" it. Is that an option, there was no option on the order page to enable it and I only had one option for the HD (160gb SSD)

Is there a problem running all cores only on battery? Been hearing some issues with that, I have a 1 hr train ride (2 hrs each day) and I would like to do work on the train.

Thanks, and I love the amount of help this community is giving, I will promise to do my best to return as much suggestions once I am better acquainted with this piece of HW.

 

The smart card reader is for those credit cards and IDs that come with a integrated chip in them. A number of security focused companies are starting to issue them as they can be used as a additional authentication. If you don't have it in the laptop then it doesn't decrypt the HD to even let you try to log in. At least thats what the one of the IT guys keeps pushing them to accomplish.

The only time I've used a system with one was in the USN and it was just used as a additional check after bootup along with the SN/PW.

 

....edited

 

If you want a W520 with the Intel RAID controller chip, you must order it with "RAID - Enabled".

It can't be enabled later.

 

There was no option for it to enable it during the purchase list. The first two options during the ordering procedure have Storage Sub-systems options for RAID set ups.

First two options =
ThinkPad W520 Mobile Workstation @ $2,358.00
ThinkPad W520 Mobile Workstation @ $2,543.00

The last option of laptop:

ThinkPad W520 laptop with Solid State Drive @ $2,903.00

... does not provide the sub systems, and just the only option of SSD hard drives

 

Yeah - you would have to buy a dual HDD unit RAID ENABLED and then replace the HDDs with SSDs if you wanted 2 SSDs in RAID

 

Thats the problem. I selected the last option @ $2,903.00... It gave one option which you could not change for the amount of HD's (1 SSD) and no sub system changes.

I understand I have to get dual HDD, but the more expensive option never provided it.

Edit: Thats really strange... I should have researched the other options better. I just went with the highest end one. Oh well, i'm not really that keen on Raid, would have been a nice addition to have though.

 

With the SSD and a large conventional drive in the ultradrive bay you will be laughing. If you're working with photoshop and the like I've been told that this is a better way to go anyway.

 

It is THE way to go! WD 1 TB in the optical bay, put it in a NewmodeUS / eBay Nimitz caddy and a 128 GB or a 256 GB primary SSD! Plus you can back up important files from SSD to HDD and from HDD to SSD. You cannot do that with RAID.

 

Thats a good idea, basically what I am going for. How good is the 160gb SSD that lenovo is providing?

 

I don't know what, but I'm sure it's expensive. Buy the cheapest hard drive possible + Crucial M4 from Amazon, it's the best deal now!

 

Can someone help me how to fix the choppy sound playback on my Lenovo W520? Apparently, im not the only who has sound problems.