Lenovo installing old parts in new T61's?

All of the other threads where either I or other posters discussed the horrible screens we're getting on our T61's have either been derailed or locked, so I'm starting one specifically for this issue.

I ordered a new T61p on 4/8, when I received it and turned it on, I immediately wanted to go get a bottle of Windex and clean the LCD as it seemed that some factory dust had clouded it. Unfortunately, what I was dealing with was a LCD similar to those that XPS 1530 owners complain about. Cloudy, dirty, unevenly back-lit, and with no consistant viewing angles.

When I did more research, I found something more startling: The LCD installed is quite clearly a FRU 42T0329 part which, despite a Lenovo CSR’s claims that “FRUs change all the time”, is a part that was installed on the T60 line of ThinkPads, per the T60 Hardware Maintenance Manual. Per the T61 Hardware Maintenance Manual, I would have expected to see a FRU 42X4641, 42T0417, or 42T0423 on a T61 line ThinkPad with a WSXGA+ LCD.

Is Lenovo digging into the spare parts bin while unloading the last few T61's before the new line comes out?

I've sent my laptop in claiming that the LCD is defective and clearly detailing that this is an old FRU. My interaction with the CSR was mostly positive, but I am waiting to hear from the service depot on this.

Has anyone else noticed an old FRU on their system? I know it's not the easiest thing to spot. The LCD is the only part on mine that I've checked.

Lenovo Parts Lookup: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/s...=/partslookup/partsLookup.vm&sitestyle=lenovo
T61 Hardware Maintenance Manual: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-67980

What my screen looks like (some of the grain was lost in the downscaling of the pic): http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/nihil67/IMG_1237.jpg

 

Subscribed. This will be interesting.

 

Why can't a manufacturer use the same LCD as the previous model? Were people complaining back then? If yes, what was done about it? I don't see anything wrong with using previous parts, both t60 and t61 series share several parts.

 

I'm not sure if there were complaints, but people noticed it.

From: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3368&review=ThinkPad+T60+Widescreen
"One downside of the display in this T60 wide review unit is that it has the same "sparkle" graininess effect that's often complained about with the equivalent Dell notebook screens. This means that on all white backgrounds you can see what appears to be some dirtiness, in that the white isn't pure white. Most people such as myself won't notice or be bothered by this, but some will, as evidenced by discussion threads such as this in the Dell forum."

If someone could prove me wrong and show me that the T61p's with Samsungs all come with the Samsung LTN154P2-L05 panel, no matter what FRU is associated, I'll shut up.

 

Can you post a detailed photo of your screen?

 

The photo I have attached to the bottom of the original post is the only one I have. Unfortunately, the laptop is in Memphis (maybe... DHL doesn't know... ) and I can't take any more pics. Photobucket made me scale the pic down to 1024x768, so it took some of the detail out of the photo, but you can still see some of what I'm talking about.

 

I see it. It looks like it's sparkling. I have it on my desktop monitor, a 22" Westinghouse, but I was wondering how bad it was.

 

I would be upset because I expect Lenovo to keep up with current display technology.

But then again, I'm rather oblivious when it comes to screens and probably wouldn't notice if I had an old panel.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see that Lenovo is reusing LCD panels from their last line of T series laptops. My LCD panel (42T0329) is also apparently seen within the T60 line. Lenovo reused batteries from the T60 line and other parts as well. The LCD panel only seems like a logical part to be reused. By the way, I ordered my T61p in February, so they were doing it that early. I guess the motto is "If it ain't broke, why fix it" comes to mind.

 

My T60 has the 4:3 Samsung panel, and it's got some grain, but it's not bad. My 22" ChiMei LCD has a little grain to it too, but it's also fine.

My T61p has the worst LCD I've ever seen. The grain is only half of it. The horribly uneven backlight and zero viewing angle makes colors change depending on if you move your head a millimeter up or down. I nearly gave myself a migrane trying to do color calibration.

 

Subscribed also...

What did Lenovo CS say when you told them the screen quality wasn't good? The guy I spoke with regarding dead and stuck pixels was rude and unhelpful, I can't imagine getting someone like that to okay a screen exchange for graininess.

It looks like I've got the identical FRU's for my system that is currently shipping. I'll post about what the screen looks like when it gets here. I've got my fingers crossed that not every Samsung is a total POC!

 

The CSR was skeptical about my claim that the panel is old (and I am too, the more information I get, but the jury is still out), but seemed sympathetic when I explained to him that the screen was pretty much unuseable and he didn't really hesitate to have it looked at. Of course, he has the easy job. If I was a CSR I'd say whatever and toss a laptop over the fence to the service depot guys too.

 

I just checked the screen on my shipping laptop and my 15.4" WXGA panel has a part number of 42V8286. I can't find it anywhere in the hardware maintenance manual.

Should I be worried?

Anyone else have a 42V8286 screen?

 

42V8287 here.

 

The numbers you two listed are the generic numbers for what type of display you've got. For example, my email shipping list shows 42V8287 WSXGA (like Mike's). To find out what actual part was used, take the serial number listed in the email you received, and the system number (mine is a 6459) and plug 'em into this:

Part Finder

If your machine just shipped in the last day or so, your parts may not be listed yet.

 

Got it, thanks. Parts aren't listed; must not be "up" yet.

Thanks for the help.

 

I ordered a T61p on 4/2 and also got the 42T0329 screen. Perhaps I got lucky, but so far I don't have any real complaints with the picture quality. The viewing angles are rather poor, but no more then seems typical for the Samsung screens.

 

Ditto. I have that screen and no problems other than the lack of saturated colors and viewing angles in general. Check the HP w1907 comparison thread for some pictures of my t61p against an HP.

 

I am currently on my 4th T61,the 3 previous ones all had grainy/sparkle Panels,one of which was an LG.This newest T61 has a remarkable LCD,free of Grain very little light bleed,I am very pleased with the way it looks,the irony of it is PC wizard shows it was manufactured in 2005 LTN141WD-L05,turns out this is a Samsung which proves to me they are quite capable of manufacturing a great looking LCD.

 

Mine (still shipping) will have the 42T0412.

Is this a new or old one? Seems to be a Samsung.

 

Hey Professor, can you please list what your FRU # is on that Samsung?

 

In my opinion, quality LCD manufacturing is quite an issue. Just take a look at avsforum.com where HDTV owners complain over the quality of their screens all the time - and their products are actually meant to display images well. I mean people are suffering from light bleed, ghosting, clouding, mura, flashlights, dead pixels, and all sorts of insane stuff.

I understand that TV LCD mfg. and mfg. for computer applications are different but.... look at the issues that Samsung/Sony LCDs are experiencing below.

 

It is 42T0412
back to installing Mac os X on my M1530

 

Oh wow, thats terrible

 

Thanks, that's the one I'll be getting. I hope it's as good as yours.

 

My T61 built in 2/08 also shows 42V8286 screen also. I cross-checked at Lenovo site and came up with part# 42T0332, FRU# 42T0333. Checked LCD screen parts page and 42T033 showed as an AUO LCD panel. http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-68233 Googled 42T0333 and I guess it's a Lenovo house brand LCD panel?? Any comments on AUO??

 

AUO is a leading manufacturer of LCDs. Are you sure you got the WSXGA+ panel?

 

I sure hope these panels are new, not pulled off RMAed machines...

 

All,

It may help to clarify the discussion a bit. Lenovo will not build new systems with used parts. There could exist stock which is previously qualified for use as an alternate supplier for this system, and that supplier and part number could have also been used in production runs of other systems.

You might view that as an "old" part number. I think its great that you are sharing impressions of the quality and performance of the screens and if you subjectively favor one particular supplier over another, that is certainly good feedback.

 

Mark... thanks so much for replying.

You're 100% right, I would view that as an "old" part number. If I wanted a T60p, I'd have bought a T60p from the EPP, not spent $1k+ on a brand new T61p with a T60p LCD. But, see, I intentionally didn't get a EPP T60p after reading quite a few reviews about the bad Samsung WSXGA+ LCDs that were in the T60 widescreens. It's the same reason that I decided against the Dell XPS 1530 (A decision that I regret with every passing day. At least with Dell I could send the system back no questions asked until I was happy). I expected better from a ThinkPad.

What's next? I'm going to find out that you had a bucket of Western Digital HD's from 1998 sitting in a storage locker and you thought it wouldn't hurt to put it in since I ordered a 5400 RPM drive anyway? Yeah, he asked for SATA, but IDE is just as good, right? Is the keyboard out of a T30 that got lost and turned up when someone was cleaning out a shipping container?

You put old parts in old and/or refurb systems. You put new and current parts in new systems. I wouldn't think it would be that difficult or even taken so lightly.

 

I would first look primary to the quality of the screen before deeming it an old part and trying to get it changed. I'd rather have an "old" screen that is excellent than a "newer" model number that is poor.

I don't really see a problem here if they aren't previously used parts. If the part specifications have remained the same, then it can and should be used. That's kind of a benefit of maintaining compatibility between your products. The keyboards are compatible between T60 and T61. Would it be an issue if you got a "T60" keyboard instead of a "T61" keyboard?

Your argument about the hard drive is not applicable because SATA and IDE aren't even the same and wouldn't work. If it's the same form factor, size, and speed, then yes, it could be reused.

How "old" the parts are aren't even always a good indicator of quality. How many people here would love to have an "old" IPS flexview display over the displays being produced now?

 

I'll have one IPS and also an AUO to go please, lol... but I'm a happy camper for the time being with my LG-Philips LCD =)
This is of course comparing it to my 2 year old Asus A8JM laptop LCD

 

I received a t61p today as well. My biggest complaint with the monitor is brightness (or lack thereof) and viewing angles.

I have an LCD DISPLAY FRU of 42TO329 as well.

The interesting thing is that my system lists the LCD DISPLAY ASSEMBLY FRU as: 42X4641

I pulled up the hardware link the original poster provided and noted that the 42x4641 is in there. That's what he expected to find as the monitor.

(I wonder, what's your assembly FRU compared to the LCD FRU? I assume from the fact that I have two FRUs that the assembly is just some sort of supporting hardware, not the panel itself.)

 

mine arrived today too. won't be able to give an update until i get home from school.

 

My assembly shows up as 42X4641 as well. I don't know what it means or what the difference is (I assume it's the supporting hardware as well) and as soon as EzServ gets the laptop and calls me, I plan on asking them. The problem there seems to be that DHL has no idea where the package is.

 

I, too, consider the quality of the parts to be much more important than whether they were "old" or "new", but obviously the quality of these screens is inferior to that of the other screens. I don't really see any reason for this other than to clear out leftover stock, and that just makes me feel shafted.

 

When you find out, please update. Thx!

 

I got my T61 yesterday, and have the 42T0329 screen. It really is pretty bad. I do heavy photo editing so it's a huge issue for me.

My old laptop, a Dell Inspiron 9100, has a pretty bad screen too but that I only noticed when editing photos... for normal use it was fine. On the T61, it interferes with normal use of the computer. There's exactly one place you can put your head, further away from the screen than I normally would sit, if you want marginally even brightness across the screen - the viewing angle is that bad.

It is crisp, clear, and bright enough for me, and the sparkles/graininess is annoying but not that bad - it's the viewing angle that's the problem.

I'm really interested in what they have to say and if we can get these replaced - I've been loving this computer otherwise and am willing to go through some hassle to get a decent screen.

 

This is really ridiculous...

 

Thanks for the AUO info. It's a 15.4" WXGA. On the invoice, LCD panel is shown as 42V8286 part. LCD is OK, a bit soft, but I really haven't taken the time to tweak the settings either.

 

Yeah this issue only deals with WSXGA+ panels.

 

I've been trying so hard to be at peace with my 42T0329. I agree with the poster who stated that viewing angle is the main issue. It is indeed grainy, it's not very bright (but seems "bright enough" to my eyes), color is really nice with the help of Nvidia control panel, clarity seems above average, but the viewing angle is downright pathetic. In order to get any degree of uniform brightness, you'd need eyes that are about a foot apart, and preferably more than just two of them. I'll be curious to see how things go with Lenovo, although I have a feeling that little, if anything, will be done.

My prediction: Either a machine exchange, in which case the chance of getting the same screen is high, a trip to the depot for screen replacement, in which case you're without your computer for an indefinite period of time, or a refund sans 15% of the purchase price. Lenovo is not going to admit fault for anything. I'm already outside of my 21 day window, so no exchange or refund for me. I'm not even sure how they would react if I were to complain after having the machine for more than a month.

 

Being outside of the 21 days you're stuck with the service trip. I'm inside of my 21 days and I opted for the service trip anyway. I love everything else about this laptop and didn't want to exchange it.

Everyone with this panel that can't stand it really needs to call Lenovo and ask to get it replaced. Samsung needs to get slapped around on this panel. I'm sure Dell is already upset about it, time to get Lenovo to understand as well.

"Lenovo is not going to admit fault for anything."

I think Mike@Lenovo's comment summed that stance up.

 

OS 04/30/2008 08:30:00 M Machine being repaired

It can't be that easy, can it?

 

I agree with you Ben, I am regretting this purchase more and more ever since dell had released more coupons for a better graphics card, bigger hdd. But I find some comfort from techboydino's posts about how he works for Dell and would never buy one. He said that what's the use of a great screen when your notebook doesn't work.

My biggest issue: uneven backlighting - bad angles is one thing, bad angles is another when you are 12" from the screen you are viewing. It's like a flashlight to look right on.

 

:wub: :wub: :wub:

 

What kind of warranty did you buy?

 

None. I'm on the 1 year whatever comes with the system warranty.

 

Ahh yes, somehow I managed to miss Mark@Lenovo's post. He's been trained well in the art of the spin: There's nothing wrong with the panel, it's just your "subjective" opinion that the panel isn't what you think it should be. It's good, at least, that they're willing to switch it out for another one. Will be looking forward to a report on the new one.

 

I can see your point Ben. Your screen looks awful and seems unusable. I am assuming the dark patches on your backlighting is the actual screen and not a camera or shot taking issue(ex: lighting, wrong setting etc). If I am buying a new machine I want new stuff regardless. But does anyone know if there are really any spec differences between the T60 panel and the T61 panel, such as Nit rating? I am just trying to see if there are any qualitative differences rather than impression(not saying that they are not valid, but looking for something to prove to Lenovo) between the screen. For example if we can tell lenovo that the T60 panel you sent me is 150nit not the 200nit one for the T61, please replace.