Lenovo installing old parts in new T61's?

Well, that and I am sure you are aware that LG has a different nit from the Samsung. I think the Samsung is 150 where as the LG is 200 (possibly 220?).

 

This is a very interesting thread. Would love to see how the complaints play out. Anyone who is getting their screen serviced, please keep us up to date.

 

Where are you finding these nit ratings? I've looked through the T61 descriptions and can find no mention of nits anyplace.

 

I put in a service call and am getting my screen serviced. Hopefully they will replace it with something better.

The support guy I talked to seemed pretty good about it; he started by asking the basic questions but realized immediately I knew what I was talking about and that it's not a simple software issue. Not excited about having to mail it out, but if they replace the screen it'll be worth it.

Does anyone know if they will call again when they're actually looking at it, so I can make it clear to whoever's doing the actual service what the problem is and what I want?

By the way the biggest problem I have with it is no longer the viewing angle or the grain/sparkles, it's that the horizontal lines of pixels are visible and give the screen a ridged look. It is really obnoxious to look at photographs with that.

 

If they service it, will they just replace the screen or will they send you a refurb? If I get a new laptop with a bad screen, I don't want to trade it in for a refurb...

 

They're not going to replace your whole computer, that would be silly (I just spent three days playing with it non-stop to get it how I like it so they'd better just be touching the screen )

 

A lot of times, they just send you a refurb if it's easier than actually opening up your computer. Hopefully this won't happen to you. Let us know what happens!

 

OS 05/01/2008 08:23:00 M Machine being repaired
HF 04/30/2008 16:05:00 M Hold for customer information
OS 04/30/2008 08:30:00 M Machine being repaired

No calls yet. I'm in meetings from 8:30 to 10:30 today, so I'm sure they'll call then.

 

Repaired is good. Mine's going to Memphis as well - I guess that is "the depot" so here's hoping there's no bonehead damage either.

 

I was reading around the site, but the newer models may look like this :

Samsung: 200nit
LG: 220nit

I looked for references to widescreens but only found the standards.

 

before you worry warts go jumping from the frying pan to the fire, read this thread here, these are posts from people who have actually seen both screens.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=224846&highlight=aiiee

 

I don't see a single mention of the 42T0329 screen in that thread. You assume that there are only 2 different screens possible, but that is clearly not the case.

 

Didn't say that, it says that Samsung and LG screens are indistinguishable from each other. They didn't mention screen numbers in the thread except for once, and you are correct, that number was not the number of your screen, which was not my point anyway.

 

I found both 220 and 200 nit LG's and 200 nit Samsungs for my T61 7662-CTO 14.1" WXGA+:

T61 (type 6480, 6481, 7658, 7659, 7660, 7661, 7662, 7663, 7664, 7665)
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-69662.html#R

220nit, LG-Philips 42T0406
200nit, LG-Philips 42T0427
200nit, Samsung 13N7108
200nit, Samsung 42T0412
200nit, Samsung 42T0453

For the XWGA 14.1, both the LG's and Samsung's are 185-nit, but there is one 200-nit AUO.

T61 (type 6480, 6481, 7658, 7659, 7660, 7661, 7662, 7663, 7664, 7665)
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-67914.html

200nit, AUO 42T0339
185nit, LG-Philips 42T0341
185nit, LG-Philips 42T0425
185nit, Samsung 13N7102
185nit, Samsung 42T0410

 

Then I'm lost as to what your point is. Is is that you think we're all complaining about nothing because some thread says that some 2 LCDs are the same?

 

Neat that that list those for the 14" screens... I don't see anything similar being listed for the 15.4" WSXGA+ screens.

 

Does it say that the screens are indistinguishable from each other? I must be reading a different thread. In fact, from browsing the Lenovo forums the past few months, the concensus seems to be that the LG/Samsung 15.4" WSXGA+ panels are indeed quite distinguishable.

If i'm not mistaken, Jooooeee later went on to exchange his Samsung LCD outfitted machine for one with the LG panel and reported he was happier with it.

 

Anyone have any information on their AUO screen? I would love to see what's up with those. This has to be a problem on the WSXGA+ problem - it's recurrent in the Dell threads with that resolution.

My package left today - I delayed a little for photographs and a detailed note. My T61 would be PERFECT but for that screen.

 

My LCD has been replaced and DHL should be delivering it in the next couple of hours.

 

So, I have the laptop back. They replaced the LCD with a LG LP154W02-TL06. I am looking into it, but I believe that this is a FRU 13N7020, which is another screen from a T60.

This screen is grainy and sparkly too, but not nearly as bad as the Samsung I had in before. Viewing angles are drastically improved. Backlight bleed is ok.

I'll have to use it for a day or so to see if it's going to be a keeper.

 

I will be interested in your conclusion. I received the same samsung which has pretty good color, no bleeding (least important aspect imho), not great but not horrible brightness, but definately subpar viewing angles, and some sparkle. For the most part it is better than the 2 dell m1530s (one had no sparkle but really dim and the other had very bad sparkle) I sent back but still not great.

 

I'm going to go ahead and keep this panel. I'm guessing it's likely the best I'm going to get. The uneven backlighting is annoying, but it's otherwise fine.

I still highly recommend anyone with the 42T0329 panel and an active warranty send their laptop in to Lenovo for service.

 

Thats' what I was going to say Ben_J. That is probably the best screen you will get. But it is nice that they gave you a different manufacturer's screen like you asked.

 

They gave you the same laptop right?

 

Has the same serial number and parts... I assume it's the same w/ a new LCD.

 

Ben J - did you notice horizontal lines of alternating brightness running throughout the screen (the 42T0329), when you looked up close? You can see it here: http://mail.rochester.edu/~chacker/t61lcd.jpg and here: http://mail.rochester.edu/~chacker/t61lcd2.jpg if you didn't see my pictures in the poll thread.

Everything else about that screen I probably could have lived with, including the terrible viewing angle (though I would not have been happy about it,) but the horizontal lines I could not. I got my box and mailed it in yesterday. Glad to see it worked out OK for you and so I assume it will for me too. What was the turnaround time? I can sort of figure it out from the dates of your posts, but not sure exactly. I had a hard time parting with it while I was still heavily playing around with it (there's lots to play around with in linux on a new system ) and of course I want to get it back as soon as possible

 

I didn't have the horizontal lines. Your screenshots look way worse than mine.

My biggest problems were "sparkle" and no effective viewing angle (aside from standing 10 feet away).

On the turnaround... DHL jacked up my shipment and sent it ground from Phoenix to Memphis, so that added almost a week. After IBM got the laptop, I had it back on the 3rd day.

 

They received my laptop and the technician called me and said they can't switch it out without authorization from the sales/billing department. I think he implied that I will need to pay for it as there is nothing technically wrong with the screen. I couldn't really understand everything he was saying though, so I'm not sure.

He told me to call the tech support number, so I did and they said they couldn't do anything and that I had to wait to be called by the billing department.

I guess I'm just unlucky - how did you manage to avoid all this, Ben J?

I am not asking to upgrade to a higher resolution screen or anything - I don't see what the issue is and why I would have to pay. I certainly am not going to pay for this, and I am not going to back down about it either. It's their fault for using bad parts. Everything else about the machine is incredible, and I really don't understand why they are using such bad screens.

 

Simple. I"m sure that Samsung was offering some killer deals they couldn't refuse.

 

Can you post up shots as to what your new screen looks like?

 

I don't know. From the posts I have read, Lenovo doesn't swap out the screen like Dell does. They seem to be very inflexible with this. Also even if they do swap it out and Ben_J's hypothesis(Lenovo has a bunch of old parts remaining that they want to get rid of) is correct, that means that they will give you another T60 screen, like he got. I hope I am wrong

It is really hard to find any place that has them on display, but I found one place in my area that has the T61 on display. I am probably going to check it out in person this week and see once and for all whether I want the Thinkpad or go with something else. For me the main things that would get me upset is a really really dim screen and uneven backlighting. I still can't believe how bad Ben_J's screen was, like someone cut the corners off the screen.

I will report back what I see.

 

I wouldn't be too annoyed if they were inflexible about it with everyone, but it seems like others (including Ben J) had screens swapped with no issue, but now they're being hard about it with me. Like it's the luck of the draw whether or not you get the nice guy in the repairs department.

In any case I don't even care if it's another T60 screen with poor viewing angle and some graininess, but I can't deal with the horizontal lines in the current screen. I suppose that could be a different problem (as Ben J did not see the lines, despite having the same screen) but it's definitely a problem and they claimed there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Also - I agree they must have gotten some kind of killer deal on these screens, but it doesn't quite follow with the rest of the computer. Everything else is clearly not from the lowest bidder. It's partly a marketing thing, but they really have clearly put in a lot of work to build a high-quality machine, so it should follow that they pick major components based on quality and not just price. Clearly that didn't happen here, which is disheartening.

 

I contacted my sales rep who directed me to support. The person there listened to my issues, spoke with his supervisor and told me there was nothing they could do. They are not willing to replace the screen.

He said he'd advise me to return the laptop. That's unfortunate.

 

If not the killer deal, it could be that Lenovo signed a bad contract with Samsung. One thing I'm truly curious about is how Lenovo handles the corporate complaints or if there are even corporate complaints because they don't use crappy screens.

 

None of this is Samsung's fault, they make some great LCD panels. Samsung gives the computer manufacturer specifically what they ask for, at the price the manufacturer specifies. Lenovo chooses to use a cheaper panel to increase the profit margin on any given machine. You get what you pay for (or rather what Lenovo pays for).

If you want to place blame someplace, place it on Lenovo (or Dell, or Toshiba, or Gateway, or HP etc..), not the LCD manufacturer.

 

I agree, it's not Samsung's fault. I've seen Samsung LCDs that looked great, and apparently the other sizes they make for thinkpads are perfectly fine. We know in this particular case they provided a sub-par screen, though. I am definitely putting the blame on Lenovo for this, as I implied earlier, and I don't intend to badmouth Samsung as they usually make good products.

Anyway, I have an interesting update - in the thread about this on the official Lenovo forums, here, Mark @ Lenovo posted a message saying they wanted to look into the issue and do something about these screens (the ..329 Samsungs specifically) and asked for volunteers with a "worst case" screen to send it in so the engineering department could see them.

Since Lenovo already has my laptop in Memphis, and because I care strongly about this, I volunteered my system. So it's going to be shipped to Mark and the engineering department in North Carolina to get looked at. Should be interesting, and seems like an unusual step for them to take - but I think everyone will be better off as a result.

So they're aware that there might be an issue, and hopefully the result will be that we can get a better screen (and no one in the future will have to deal with this.)

 

Lenovo is still in my opinion not the one to blame. Samsung is still the screen manufacturer and clearly the issue has propagated itself through different laptop brands and not through the fault of the laptop companies. As you have said, Samsung is a top-notch LCD manufacturer that gained their notoriety, in my opinion, through their terrific televisions and for Dell/Lenovo/HP to anticipate such issues as graininess, uneven backlighting, and issues with viewing angles is absurd. So say that they did ask for certain-spec screens on the cheap, why wouldlaptop manufacturer's with a desire for WSXGA+ ask for panels with the same exact problems? Even low quality, no name brand LCD manufacturers can produce usable LCDs by perhaps decreasing the grade of the panel, decreasing brightness, contrast, or what have you to decrease cost, but never actually creating grain in the screen. While Lenovo still remains the one to resolve the issue to anyone with the problem, how did Lenovo have any control of the issue at hand besides declining to use 15.4" Samsung WSXGA+ panels outright and only going with another mfr.

Little sidenote on what reputation means. Sony XBR LCD's, the top line of Bravia televisions offered by Sony and manufactured in Samsung BTW, sometimes suffered severe issues with clouding that caused dark images to essentially become unviewable due to such a noticeable distraction. Now just because someone's XBR looked great, doesn't mean that it was not Sony's fault for putting out bad quality screens despite knowing such an issue existed. At that point, who do you blame, the third party vendor you bought it from for buying bad stock, or the actual manufacturer of the product?

My two cents and I hope that Lenovo follows through on such an issue if they're deciding to take such a proactive position. I, too own a T61p with one of those 329 screens and would love to see a resolution for all of us.

 

Sorry for the delayed reply... work's been a little nuts lately. I'll take a shot tomorrow morning when I'm back at home and can replicate the light in the room from the first shot.

 

On who's fault the problem is... I started this journey blaming Samsung. It seemed to me that their issues with Dell had spilled into the Thinkpads. Once I received my LG replacement screen that still has a decent (yet infinitely more tolerable) amount of sparkle to it, I think that Lenovo is to blame. You either stand by the components in your products or you go get different components. I'm still the most disappointed by the fact that people complained about these LCDs in the T60's and they're still putting them into the T61's.

 

I know I'm one update old and you've since sent your laptop over to Mike to have the engineers look at it, but I wanted to answer your question.

I used 3 angles that I think got me through without too many questions being asked. 1) I made sure to let them know I'm an IBM employee. No idea if that helped me or not. 2) I made sure to make a big stink about the part appearing to be old. Correct or not, the FRU doesn't line up with the maintenance manual. 3) I also made sure to make a big stink about the screen being unuseable. I wanted a clear distinction between whining and an unuseable product.

 

Man, then I have no luck. What would it cost to have the screen replaced through payment?

 

I don't know if I should sell this thing, or pay for a replacement LCD. I got a very nice deal on the computer, so I might not be opposed to a replacement if the cost isn't too outrageous - though the whole issue is outrageous as it is.

 

I have been reading up about this problem, and I am looking at buying a T61 14.1" WSXGA+ laptop in the very near future. I have heard many negative things about the screens from my research. I plan on buying a computer that will last me most of my way through college. I do not want to end up with a crappy LCD screen. Does this LCD problem occur on all screens (including the WSXGA and the WSXGA+), or is it limited to specific machines?

 

You are looking at much better results with the 14.1" screen. I believe it is a WSXGA+ problem that is specific to the 15.4" as most here would tell you that the 14.1" is perfectly fine. Do your research though, I would look here and at Lenovo forums to see if there are complaints about the 14.1" screens. From what I have heard, the samsung for THAT model is perfectly fine. Good luck with your purchase.

 

Exactly my situation. I need a laptop for college by June-ish, and I have done tons of research and poured over lots of reviews and forums trying to decide the best machine. I am on a budget and this machine MUST last at least 4 years. I heavily favor the T61p due to the quadro card (for CAD and other apps) the issue is the screen. I would certainly get the 15.4" WSXGA+. I am seriously considering not buying Lenovo because of all the things I've heard.

Edit: I'll be paying attention to what Mark@Lenovo says about the screens that will be inspected. Hopefully we'll find out soon what the verdict is (soon enough for action to be taken before I have to buy perhaps)

 

Darn. I just ordered a WSXGA+ 15.4" T61p. May the Force be with me.

And there's been no response from Mark for a long time. I wonder what's keeping him.

 

He believes that this is all subjective : that the reports from professionals and casual users is merely opnion rather than a real issue. I will be surprised if he does anything - you have to make lots of noise, which is unfortunate. They are not aiming to satsify customers and I would NOT recommend it if you need the screen for any photo editing - it will frustrate you.

I would hold off as long as you can because you might see more coupons or an LED screen.

 

IT'S A TRAP!

 

Hah, you know what I wrote a post on the Lenovo forums:

"Disappointing dispay and no satisfaction from Lenovo tech support"

Locked and moved to "T61 LCD Quality"

What a joke.

 

Yeah unfortunately I can't afford the new line, so I want to buy now when they are at their cheapest, right before the new models come out. If that means taking a gamble on garbage screens, then I have to evaluate that risk. I don't want a bad screen but everything else on this machine fits what I need and is within budget. In addition, holding off means possibly not getting it in time for school and/or getting a defective product that cannot be replaced in time for school. So I want to buy soon for that reason too.